JAG

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listing all the power Suthep would have makes him sound like Thaksin.

Surprise, surprise. The only things that will change are the names and faces. Political promises should be taken as such, a means to an end to get in a position to use to their own advantage, not that of the electors.

Read it in black & white, doesn't matter what colour of shirt they wear.....................

Never saw anything really bad from Suthep where he had power.....He might not be the best politicians I can dream of, but surely he doesn't deserve to be compared with a murder like Thaksin.

Well nothing really bad, apart from having 90 odd protestors slotted to send a message that he was in charge, nothing really!

OMG! They're back at it again - destroying military property and assaulting monks. How long before they start dragging us out into the street and burning us at the stake?

Not for a while. Homepro tell me that stakes are in very short supply, don't expect another delivery for several months.

OMG!

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The Red behavior gets closer and closer to that of the Khmer Rouge every day. How long before roving packs of Reds start to assault foreigners, rob them, and dump them in the nearest ally? There is clearly NOTHING to stop them from doing so. I take it back about the Khmer Rouge, come to think of it. At least the Khmer Rouge had organization. This bunch is beginning to resemble a band of Somali warlords. They'll reduce everything around them to rubble.

Let's get some perspective shall we. The Khmer Rouge defeated Lon Nols US backed regime in a protracted guerrilla campaign, followed by open battle to capture Phnom Phen. They then went through the whole year zero, evacuate the cities, agrarian revelutionary society with a genocide mixed in, before fighting and losing a war against the Vietnamese.

These people appear to have stolen a tent!

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Speaking of sick men... I notice that a lot of advertisments on ThaiVisa are for dating young Thai women and health insurance....

Just goes to show where most of the members here focus their interest: hunting young Thai women and making sure they stay healthy after ingesting three Viagra pills a day with a case of Heineken!!!

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How bloody sad is that story? Six months ago this country was the envy of most of the region and now? Yes I know the "man from Dubai" chanters will try and say the rice deal was the turning point but the simple fact is Thailand would have moved past that. What's destroying this country is the rogue Suthep, his puppetmasters (who all have their millions offshore anyway - this is about power not money) and those who are dim enough to support him. PDRC flagwavers can - each and every one - say proudly "I did my little bit to destroy Thailand".

Yes, but look on the bright side, if Suthep and his merry men get their way, Thaksins passport will be cancelled!

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Who or what is NIDA? Majority wants to know.

The majority are not well enough educated to know, so they don't need to know!

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Is this woman deaf?

I know she is dumb, but she should be able to understand what is good for her country.

Step down, Yingluck.

Step down so that the country can ben manipulated by "good people" for who knows how long without a firm date for elections? Who is going to be able to remove these 'good people' if they choose not to hold elections "when the time is right"? Be careful what you wish for Costas, my old potato

12-14 month was the time frame.....If they wouldn't hold election they would get ousted like the Shinawatras. But if you have any better idea to reform Thailand, please tell. The Shinawatras are as far from being "good people" as you can find in Thailand and surely won't make any reforms to cut themself off the feeding trough.

I don't particularly care for the woman, I'd much prefer is she was replaced by the electorate, and not through a judicial or Military Coup.

There have been other suggestions, hold a referendum and let the people, not the minority but the majority decide if they'll accept the reforms first, Suthep is as stubborn as they come, as to whether he's right or not that's down to time, as to whether he'll be revered as a National Hero ( I highly doubt the Issan people would ever look upon him as such) that's again open to debate, but the truth is, many of his initial followers are sick of it all now, they've not progressed, sure they've had some forums, but stop pushing forwards ideals that are unacceptable to the majority, the PDRC movement has also dwindled, same as the support for the PTP/UDD so put it to the vote, it really doesn't get any simpler.

Let the elections run, stop acting like a spoilt child, give the current administration, IF they win, the same 12-14 months in which the reforms you so desire have to happen, or they're out on their ass.. yes, we all know they didn't do a great job, in fact it was abysmal, but they have no choice now, let the public determine who should run the country, who ever it is has 12 months to get their act together.. simple, and if they fail, then the Military step in, and have 6 months control, so that the future ruling party can have everything in place..

if Yingluck makes a referendum than you have again the 500 Baht to vote no.

As Democracy isn't really existing, I don't see it as a problem if a non elected government comes to power by some undemocratic means and stays just for 1-2 years.

I remember the Surayud government acted way more democratic and transparent than any elected government before.

When you let this government make reforms: They already had good ideas how to reduce the check and balances, than it will get only worse. Giving them 12-14 month to prepare themself isn't a good idea.

One more coup and one more unelected government won't change the book of Thailands history much.....

If democracy no longer exists in Thailand it is because a government ,which was accepted both nationally and internationally as having been freely elected, is in the process of being removed by a minority street protest movement, in alliance with institutions nominally independent but controlled by an establishment which is itself viscerally opposed to that government. An election, as required by the constitution, and called by Royal Decree, was prevented by that same minority protest movement. Its antics were regarded benignly by the courts controlled by the establishment. So yes, you are right to say that democracy does not exist (at present) in Thailand.

Would one more coup and one more unelected government make no difference? I think it would. If the present government is removed, and the electorate is denied the chance to reappoint it, or select an alternative, then I think this time it will provoke a furious reaction. The electorate are now far more aware, and this time would not accept it. Interestingly enough the Army's uncharacteristic reluctance to take part in removing the government points to the fact that they have come to the same conclusion.

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Suthep has clearly embraced Abhisit's proposal for a live TV debate with Yingluck. The country wants to see it. In fact, they're thirsting for it. Even the Thai TV dramas would lose their ratings in the event of that. Everybody wants to see it - everybody, of course, except Pheu Thai, who know Yingluck would be a positive, national embarrassment. Pheu Thai will undoubtedly shoot it down, or suggest Suthep debate Ko Tee, but the Thai people would absolutely love to see it. A snap poll should be taken on this suggestion alone. I can't imagine a Thai person anywhere who wouldn't want to see it. Abhisit's suggestion also for a referendum to give public ascent for moving forward on reform discussions could be the very breakthrough we've been looking for. PDRC want reform, and Pheu Thai " claims " that it wants reform. Put it to a public test. A referendum is the middle way, and the clear solution to bridge the two sides. Pheu Thai will shoot that down too, of course. Why ? They really don't want reform - unsurprisingly. And the last time they promised it in 2011 was followed by you know what.

You think Suthep is top of the class in debating? I wouldn't be surprised if she beat him hands down.

Well he wouldn't debate would he, he would shout at her until she was in tears. That would be acclaimed as a great victory by many on TV. I wander if it would be as well received by the electorate, or perhaps I should say the ex electorate, as voting on who is going to run the country is not part of the plan!

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Suthep has clearly embraced Abhisit's proposal for a live TV debate with Yingluck. The country wants to see it. In fact, they're thirsting for it. Even the Thai TV dramas would lose their ratings in the event of that. Everybody wants to see it - everybody, of course, except Pheu Thai, who know Yingluck would be a positive, national embarrassment. Pheu Thai will undoubtedly shoot it down, or suggest Suthep debate Ko Tee, but the Thai people would absolutely love to see it. A snap poll should be taken on this suggestion alone. I can't imagine a Thai person anywhere who wouldn't want to see it. Abhisit's suggestion also for a referendum to give public ascent for moving forward on reform discussions could be the very breakthrough we've been looking for. PDRC want reform, and Pheu Thai " claims " that it wants reform. Put it to a public test. A referendum is the middle way, and the clear solution to bridge the two sides. Pheu Thai will shoot that down too, of course. Why ? They really don't want reform - unsurprisingly. And the last time they promised it in 2011 was followed by you know what.

This is politics, its not about who comes best across on a national tv debate. Look at Tony Blair, he was a near unparalleled debater and look where he took the country. Would George Bush have stood across the tv studio and debated with the head of the tea party?

Just because someone might come across well on a televised debate does not mean they would make a good leader of the country, there is far more to it to that.

I would agree on a referendum on reform though, but i imagine this idea would be shot down sharpish by the PDRC as well.

Yingluck is obviously not a great orator, but many a PM or President are not, nor is she a successful PM, but many are not. It does not mean you completely overthrow the system in place. I agree radical changes need to be made, i agree radical reform is needed, i dont agree with handing the duty of reform to an old codger of Democratic persuasion who has no inkling of modern day reality, or giving the choice of that person to a well known corrupt person with affiliations to another corrupt party.

Surely Suthep, with transparency, cronyism and corruption being his key words would practice what he preaches and name the persons he thinks neutral. If you were to have a referendum, surely you would need the choices anyway?

When the time is right people will be named and I would even assume all parties will name a few till we have a few dozen and don't know who to choose. Maybe the King will have to speak out before a single person is accepted.

"When the time is right people will be named". Right ho, any chance in this bright new future that the people will be allowed to decide, you know, by voting for candidates who present themselves for election?

Or will it be the case that the right people will name the right people when the time is right?

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You old cynic you - next you will be suggesting that they are " Facebook friends of Suthep"!

Outrageous!

Scamper, all most people want to know is numbers, give us numbers, do us all a favour, nip outside your habitat/office in Bangkok and count the numbers for us please give us your best estimate

You know it's all one way with scamper. Have you ever seen him reply to a critical post? Makes a mockery of a debate, he just uses the forum for pumping out his propaganda, sad really.

I don't think he is a person, I think that he is a clever piece of software which wakes up at random intervals, selects a topic on TV, assembles a lot of long words into a related piece of propoganda and then automatically transmits it.!

He can prove me wrong by including two long words, let's see..."wheelbarrow " and "marmalade" , in his next post!

If that happens I will apologise profusely (if insincerely)!

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Apparently there may not be that many marchers as they are believed to be saving themselves for the final push.....

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IN other words, please bring money, we're skint!! Sounds like a Michael Yon plea !

In all fairness to Suthep and his gang, when have they been known to be dishonest and have been nothing but truthful since day 1 of their protests? What happened to the 30+ Million Baht that was raised for the farmers, does anyone recall that as ever having been presented to them? Wouldn't that have been a great PR image for him, showing him presenting the Farmers with a 30M Baht cheque? Or did this happen and I blinked and missed it??

"What happened to the 30+ Million Baht that was raised for the farmers, does anyone recall that as ever having been presented to them?"

The money that was collected "for the farmers" was used to pay lawyers to sue the goverment over the delay/non-payment of the rice money.

I don't suppose that these legions of very expensive ( and rather covert) lawyers were in any way connected with the very rich (and rather covert) backers of Suthep and PDRC?

It could not be, as that would be corruption, and we all know how set against that Suthep and PDRC are!

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"Chart Thai Pattana Party CTP"

Anybody, heard of them before?

Where, were, they hiding all this time?

Stood in the elections last month, people would have voted for them, deluded fools, thinking that democracy is any part of Thailand's glorious future!

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How many where marching? Apart from Suthep and his 1000 paid guards?

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I wouldn't regard it as back up, just a comment!

And you know my views on the fabled x principles of democracy, so let's not go there again

Cheers now.

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Suthep is right, however i believe Red Shirts have lost a lot of its supporters.

Just the other day, the Red camp has set up a camp on Sukhumvit road, near Theaparsit road.

There is a stage and a truck playing very loud music with 3 flags

1. Thai

2. Thaksin

3. Red shirt movement

Funny thing is, it is now the second day i drive past morning and late afternoon and no one is there, but 1 fool dancing around waiving the flag.

On many previous occasions when they set up the same thing, there were always people around, but no one now, not even a single taxi driver.

Perhaps all the broken promises and no payment to parents of the supporters are now starting to show, and the only violence expected is from the hardcore's

That correct. There are facts that back that up too. Voter turnout at polling stations unaffected by the protests especially in the northern regions of Thailand where the regime draws the majority of its support and where polling went uninterrupted, I repeat UNINTERRUPTED recorded the highest turnout of 56.14% in the North East, followed by the North with 54.03%. Yet in 2011 the turn out was 75%? Rats jumping ship don't even get results that low!

That is why they stubbornly always refer to the 2011 elections results. Give it 10 years and when they still don't have the popular mandate they will still refer to the 2011 election results because that election suits their agenda.

They will probably continue to refer to the 2011 results as a benchmark because the way things are going, and under the regime which you espouse the 2011 election will probably be the last election for a very considerable period.

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Look at the root cause, before coming out with such a crazy statement.

An elected NONE government in power----top Ministerial jobs given to non qualified persons who are part of the Shin machine. The country could not run with a leader ruling it from abroad, that for a start was illegal, apart from Thai money missing, could be anywhere same as the missing aircraft.

Disaster from day one in government. AND YOU BLAME SUTHEP, ECC, and anyone else.

Yingluck went for an election knowing full well it would be a disaster, but she ha a chance to get in IF the snap decision worked, as she knew she aand a load of her party were already under the microscope for offences against the state.

So here we are today, waiting for the outcome. BUT IT WILL BE ECC FAULT AGAIN, as the Shins followers will never believe wrong has been committed.

This saying speaks volumes, easy--follow the money, then show the world where it went.

Whatever floats your boat there, jinjag.

Any truth that may tinge your blanket assertions and your party line pronouncements is true for BOTH gangs.

The fact IS that the Peua Thai gang, the black unwashed hordes of wage slaves from Isaan finally met a politico who could turn the injustice the have endured into a sense of participation.

The popularism that Thaksin used to "buy" them, that sense of being left out, that relegation to the third class compartment that they have had to suck up is not going to die out.

This WELLSPRING of political force has always been available to the "Bangkok People" to exploit and to acquire a respect ingle political mandate. The SAD FACT is that Bangkok has always either been too arrogant or too bluddy LAZY or too self-congratulatory to incorporate some form if egalitarianism into their strategy.

And now, in the death throws of this fascist inspired, minority regime they are likely going to stick to the same old dog and pony show. Time for Bangkok People to appreciate that EVERYONE knows that this country is NOT a Rattankosin likae performance.

Thailand is NOT what the TAT would have us believe it is ? Not by a long shot.

It would serve the elite brains trust well here if they simply accepted the fact that we are NOT as stoopid or as ignorant as they need us to be in order to believe all their bogus nonsense.

THE WHOLE WORLD if they actually gave a toss for this place would chime in with one large anvil chorus of "????"

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

I do not feel happy about the situation here, posting about wrong is not easy. Some of you posters I/we do it because we get a kick out of it.

My point is all along bad governance has no place here anymore, I post about the wrong inflicted on the nation PRIOR to the protests.

It is simple enough to see, my last 2 sentences if you bother to look up is what I post about. NOT all the protest/counter propaganda B/S. This is a divert from the missing money. Your confusing reply is a sidetrack and does not answer the main reason for protests, Missing money---defying the court by the said government when clearly they goofed. and lied

Gijag, dude . . . . . . I tried to give you an idea in my post about what exactly the REALPOLITIK of this here kerfuffle was all about.

Hell, ginjag if I hadn't been making such a full-on hobby of geo-politics for the last THIRTEEN years (instead of bluddy fough bough and sport in general) which REALLY bore the butt off me ;- ) I wouldn't even be ON this board.

But Thaksin and his globalist stooge backers have had the political GOOD SENSE to be more egalitarian than the pack of political opportunists who've been entertaining us so feverishly by repeating the SAME nonsense over and over again for the past THREE MONTHS.

Peua Thai nailed itself a political majority when their strategists had the good sense to run a "pure-as-the-driven-snow" prom queen as party head.

Yingluck won her election in Thailand's information decade.

You can't just call her people, her political base and her family names for three months and push them out but still say you have a democracy.

The moment there Bangkok Fascists DO step out into the open where everyone can see and hear them . . . . . . the MOMENT they articulate that they DO NOT want democracy but some kind if electoral system which will render Provincial Thais irrelevant if it is adopted . . . . . the moment they do this and SAY THIS ?????

All Hell will break loose.

Just in time for the Realm's passa doble entre to the AEC as the regional hub of political instability.

As I tell my Thai friends here ; "Chaps ? Chappettes ? Y'all are damned lucky this place don't have no oal. 'Cause if y'all DID have oal there'd be more helping hands to the rescue than one individual could POSSIBLY accommodate.

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

I have never heard as much cra# in my life, Think I had better start your new language class--or maybe can do without it. clear off, do not reply.

It's not cr*p. Idiosyncratically written perhaps but making a valid point. Your response, as is so often the case, is arrogant and intolerant.

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What a circus! The ultimate aim is for Thailand to have a democracy Thai style which is one that the amataya or Bangkok/Army Elite are comfortable with.....

< yawn >

Can we move on from "amart" and "elite" . . . your boss and his cronies are just as much "elite" as anyone else involved in this . . .

Can one of the paranoid reds or their trolls please advise those of us who want to know, who or what are the Amart/amataya or whatever this Bangkok Elite is, you keep banging on about?. None of those vague Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter conspiracy theories or acronyms. Give us names please. Some of us poor confused non-believers (in conspiracy theories) want to know. Why are you so reluctant to name names? And I am sure that there are many people you are thinking of, other than "they who cannot be named for TVF and other legal reasons", So, let's have the names. Be brave now. I have said please several times.

While you are at it, you can also please define the major differences that upset you so much, between the Bangkok Elites (who-ever they are) and the Chiangmai elites (The Shinawatra clan & their cronies) There! I know who the Chiangmai elites are. There is no secret there.

P.S. If there are no names, then you are just repeating rumours & that is not only stupid, but it can also get you banned from TVF.

Even a private message would be helpful so I can at least see you are not just repeating Chinese Whispers.

Replace the word amart with the word hiso, and you realise how disingenuous your statement is. There are hundreds of books on the amart.

Do you have a concise list of who are the "upper crust" of the UK?

The chiangmai elite, is not elite by Bangkok standards and never will be. Did you know.there was another PM from Chiangmai before Thaksin. He was extremely short lived. Rumor has it that the Shinawatras were intimately connected business wise with that family.

That might go a long way to explaining the lack of respect accorded thaksin in Bangkok and his zeal in trying to eradicate drugs.

Still no names, yet everyone ( except perhaps you) says " We all know who they are." That indicates specific people. They apparently have a different view of who the amart than you. So lets get this right. Just TV presenters, dress designers, celebrity hairdressers & daddy's rich kids are behind it all. Those are the people that everyoine I know refers to as HiSo's. Not quite sure where Thaksin's drug blitz comes into all this but 2,500 or so extrajudicial killings by police and no reduction in the drug traffic points to a different motive behind that shameful episode in Thai history. AND Yes, I was here at the time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suspect that you know full well that "naming names" of those deep down behind the PDRC will lead to the post being taken down and the poster suspended.

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If I might add, having been watching this discussion develop, laying a trap to get the unwary or impulsive suspended, and thus claim a TV scalp so to speak, may be behind this discussion. Just an idle thought!

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I take it that there will no time frame for the "NEW ELECTION" The "FIRST ELECTION" which had to be carried out, by law, within 30 days and was blocked by the Democrats will now be replaced with the "NEW ELECTION" which it seems can held at any time. Also the first election needed the caretaker Government to seek special permission,but it seems that the "NEW ELECTION" does not need any special permission. If the caretaker Government holds back a little on the "NEW ELECTION" and does nothing it could be that the caretaker Prime Minister will be asked to step down and her party disbanded and then there will be no need to waste money and no need for a "THIRD NEW ELECTION" What a joke this country is. There is more sense coming out the school play ground.

Actually it makes perfect sense. It is part of a work in process, the aim of which is to remove the last vestige of an elected government, and replace it with an appointed government.

Remember these people are stealing an entire country, except they don't see it as stealing as they believe it is theirs by right, "We own Thailand", rings any bells?

They are prepared to be fairly patient about it, the stakes are high and this time it will be for keeps!

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Is the constitutional court taking the stance that if nobody asks then they will not tell people the information they need to make a decision and also the stance that please don't ask speculative questions first?

If so this is going to lead to multiple mistakes followed by the horse has bolted questions but nobody is accountable.

There is another article in a similar vein where important information was not dispersed because nobody asked.

I've gone to great pains to help teams overcome the burden of not giving bad news, if you have bad news give it out and do it quickly so something can be done about it.

A little credit to the reformists on this front (the information not the decision) quickly saying they will block the next election, the constitution court could now save a lot of time by saying what will happen then, will elections be allowed to be voided continuously under the constitution?

Well this is a circular problem in terms of the legal system. Someone ordinary tells publically that they are going to block the election, they arrest him.

A pooyai does the same and the system has a fit and let's him do it. The system is selective about who it punishes and enforcing legal rights and wrongs.

No one is yet stating the EC has failed in its legal obligation and they are even blaming the govt for not completing the election despite being warned not to.

Who committed wring here. Surely not the govt. They called an election. It is the PDRC and the EC who have broken the law. But somehow, in bizarre Thai logic, the govt is at fault.

It's not logic, it's just another manifestation of the establishments view, "we own Thailand, so we can do what we like".

They may get away with it this time, but sooner or later, and I suspect sooner, the population will turn on them.

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reds have won every single election, every time stronger

Don't count on it indefinately,the PTP is in decline,and so are thier Red mates!

Not that the Thai People are going to be given the opportunity to find out.