IsaanAussie

Oh come on guys! There are thousands of types of rice. Rice that doesnt germinate, rice that gets eaten by chickens, gets blown over, gets washed away and gets stolen. The most popular seems to be rice that is only worth half as much as it was last week. And that is only a start. The stuff i seem to grow is a variety of rice that isnt worth 5 eighths of the square root of bugger all.

I had a surprise visit from the boys from the Amphur Office who came to investigate my pond. It had a bit of algae on it but it was a beautiful shade of emerald green. The complain came from a jealous neighbour who for some reason thinks I am getting rich, silly man. Anyway, the guy in brown with the shoulder stripes speaks some and understands a lot of English so conversation wasnt to hard. The complainant hobbles over and says his family is sick because my pond water is affected them.

What says Khun Stripes, not from this pond, this is very healthy, look at the fish. No your problem is coming from that slime hole over there with the mangy ducks swimming on it, go and compalin to the owner.

The conversation stopped as Khun Jealous spun on his heel and went home to feed his ducks.

What can you say? Fancy a beer Stripes my old mate?

Isaan Aussie

In my area the rain has been quite light and there was no real damage this year - that was until yesterday when they decided to open the levies to allow water from other areas onto the land around us. The result is that my rice farm is now under 2 meters of water and we will probably lose our crop, worth about Bt80K - my neighbours are pulling up their chillie plants etc in the hope of replanting, but I regret it will be a forlorn hope.

The same thing happened last year, with the added tragedy of a young man's drowned body being washed up onto our land.

The management of the water flow is carried out by incompetent idiots who have no regard for the disaster they cause and give little or no warning.

Sorry Mate that is a rotten break. We were lucky that what water was released was prior to the large rainstorms we had so things had a chance to settle first. Our water level only rose a foot as a result. The releases here are often done when a village head goes and asks for help with a water shortage. It never seems to matter about consequential damage to the deep thinking Thais. The same thing used to happen in Bangkok and in Suphan Buri some years back. They either hold the water back to keep Bangkok drier since they installed that bathplug of an airport, or they wait until the amount of water is vast and must cause damage. I was told once that they communicate between adjacent dams and not must further.

IA

Hi Rama,

Welcome to the forum.

I could suggest jokingly that you save the expense and just come visit me. At this time of year any damp concrete surface is covered in algae automatically let alone the green water pond near the pig sty that blooms every sunny day.

But to assist I would suggest you do some research into the alternate energy programs here. There has been considerable research done by arms of government and education and supported pilot and test programs undertaken which you may be able to leverage. PTT the state owned fuel company is one possible with a lead role in biofuels, all diesel now containing 2% minimum, usually 5% biodiesel. Further plan is to increase that to 10%. The Asian Institute of Technology and many Universities may well offer assistance as well. You could see a venue supplied and a larger audience given appropriate course fees.

Isaan Aussie

IA: I bought a kilo of seeds from Suranaree University of Technology in Korat. If I remember , I paid 50B for the bag.

Really? Oil Seed or Confectionary? Black with white stripe or just Black Seeds? Its the black oil rich ones I want.

IA

Hello IA, sorry to hear that Pacific(US based Co.) service was crap. I was going to contact them about soybeans as that is one of their catalog items.

The SF in the pic. is from the last Ag fair here, I don't know what type they are, I did try to get seed, but couldn't get any info, maybe the next show.

rice555

I have given you the wrong idea, their service was fine. The failing was on my part in just not getting around to it.

Hello IA, if you want the superdoper Hybs., there located down where they

grow and have all the big SF fields??

http://www.pacificse...owers/index.htm

Another place is the one listed on a thread:

http://www.thaivisa....25#entry3880625

I got 10kg of sunn hemp seed from them, they may have SF. She sent my order

on the bus, picked it up at the bus terminal here, this week it comes by boat here.

Unlike you, I got seed to eat, Mammoth gray stripe. Just need a few dry

days and maybe I can get the tractor in.

rice555

Hey Rice,

I contacted Pacific Seeds last year, early. They were going to import oil seed around June, and it would be here on such and such, they would let me know, blah, blah....main customers in Nakorn Sawan. Just another idea ending in smoke and mirrors. I will do it one day when the remaining 7 or 8 hours out of 24 are less cluttered.

Thanks for the thought, been there done that.

IA

Sunflowers, I am enormously interested. But in the oil bearing variety not the confection or eating ones. That is the ones with th black seeds not the black and white "Polly want a cracker" sort. The oil yield is great and the residue meal for the pigs. Where can I get these seeds?

By the way, what does a 100 kg parrot say? "Polly want a cracker, NOW"

Scully,

Refer to Live Pig Prices post 14 by RedBullHorn. Maybe the grade of bran being used isnt as palatable to the pigs as what is being added.

IA

IA with feed prices rising, will duck weed be an option?

Glomp,

If memory serves me correctly, Fruity's form of duckweed is a much large plant. The stuff I have talked about will fit on your thumbnail and divides as it grows. I will try to find the data I have but I am sure that it is much higher than 2% protein. But as Fruity suggests, anything that is not part of a balanced diet should be used sparingly or as a treat.

I am relooking at the Vietnamese diets made from sweet potatoes, vines and roots for a partial replacement. Another option is cassava leave and root meals. I lean towards SP because it is only a three month growing season. I hope to use rice paddy to grow some as soon after harvest as I can get the tractor onto the land. With any of these crops there is a considerable amount of work involved and the always present fear of microbe issues causes spoilage.

Isaan Aussie

Further update : So far have not done anything, because of extremely heavy rain for the last week. Maybe the overflow or the rainwater restoring the balance, but it has started to look cleaner, - a bit. Now still raining so we'll see. Unbeknown to me the brother in law has also started to add small fish to it that are too small to cook. Regards.

Tim,

You will get your answer on balance on the first sunny day. Yesterday for me was that day and the algae bloomed again. Light rain last night knocked it down again and the fish are very active. IMHO, do nothing other then watch for changes.

IA

I have looked at a number of seed/fertiliser implements for my tractor, locally made in Thailand. Perhaps you could buy the seed box etc and have the frame and wheels fabricated to suit as per the photo. From memory the three point linkage model three row was something like 25,000 baht, divide from there.

By the way, the option I took at the time was village women with buckets and a stick, simple economics.

Isaan Aussie

I have been called a perfectionist on this forum, maybe my very good friend Fruity is right, who knows. I call it careful by necessity. I have choosen to add to my response to RBH additionally here to avoid complicating or confusing two issues. Firstly a legitimate question on business planning and secondly personal motivation. This is about the second point. So with only admiration for RBH in mind, the question I will answer openly is why spend a million baht on a pigsty? The answer is just as simple, flexiiblity, the roof is constructed on 250mm deep trusses not 75mm C sections because not only will it hold down the roof in the strongest wind, it will also support heavy loads beneath it should I need to convert a pigsty into something else.

The sty you have seen is the result of 8 years of solid planning and research. Lets just say that despite my best efforts, life has not been over generous in return. But life is what you make it, so with limited reserves I choose to invest in something that will return under as many scenarios as I can imagine, and not in the house I live in, the car I drive or the opinion of the neighbours.

So I hope that those reading this pinned topic understand me a little better. I conclude by saying this pinned topic is generated for the distribution of positive ideas to those who want to investgate options and those with experiences prepared to share freely. There are a number of people on this forum, I have mentioned two, RBH and Fruity, who have made meaningful contributions and whom I admire greatly. I thank them both and hope that the nay sayers look elsewhere to score brownie points.

Isaan Aussie

Well said IA, I smoke and drink and loooove to eat, like what stand up comic Gabriel Iglesias once said " Why people measure how many years one would live, like 80 or 100 years instead of how good the years one lives...."

Between...Thanks for the PM

RBH,

Unashamedly I have the same vices, and for me life is valued daily. I am and enjoy being my pigs feeder, cleaner and football. So what is wrong with enjoying this existence? It is the only one that whatever you percieve God to be will grant you. Unlike Thai people, to me, life is not up to you, it is up to what you can contribute to the life you find yourself immersed in.

IA

I have been called a perfectionist on this forum, maybe my very good friend Fruity is right, who knows. I call it careful by necessity. I have choosen to add to my response to RBH additionally here to avoid complicating or confusing two issues. Firstly a legitimate question on business planning and secondly personal motivation. This is about the second point. So with only admiration for RBH in mind, the question I will answer openly is why spend a million baht on a pigsty? The answer is just as simple, flexiiblity, the roof is constructed on 250mm deep trusses not 75mm C sections because not only will it hold down the roof in the strongest wind, it will also support heavy loads beneath it should I need to convert a pigsty into something else.

The sty you have seen is the result of 8 years of solid planning and research. Lets just say that despite my best efforts, life has not been over generous in return. But life is what you make it, so with limited reserves I choose to invest in something that will return under as many scenarios as I can imagine, and not in the house I live in, the car I drive or the opinion of the neighbours.

So I hope that those reading this pinned topic understand me a little better. I conclude by saying this pinned topic is generated for the distribution of positive ideas to those who want to investgate options and those with experiences prepared to share freely. There are a number of people on this forum, I have mentioned two, RBH and Fruity, who have made meaningful contributions and whom I admire greatly. I thank them both and hope that the nay sayers look elsewhere to score brownie points.

Isaan Aussie

so how much did you spend in total building your pig shed ?...

RBH,

As I said in post 9 above, knocked a big hole in a million baht, close enough?

IA

...............(speechless)

Very nice and impressive...congratulation~

OK... I've been quietly keeping track on this 101 thing for a while, just to see what will come up on this topic.

So here my contribution on what i have done and my business acumen in pig farming.

I for one, will not build the shed you have as a beginner in piggeries farming, even if i've made several round in profit farming them after a few years. Yes, it's very impressive what you've build, i foresee it will take years to recover the initiate capital.

I've spend inclusive of material (13'000 THB), construction labour cost (2'400 THB)and pump (3'000 THB) X 2 sheds = 36'800 THB + Miscellaneous ( meals and lao khao ) 3'520 THB....Total = 40'320 THB

Sold my last batch and made a lucky profit of 69'170 THB, i've basically made back the money i used to build the sheds in round one and after deducting the whole cost, i still netted a profit of 28'850. Now is the time for me to upgrade my shed, replace the bamboo fences with "hole-inside" type of concrete blocks as walls for the same ventilation effect as the bamboo fences and improving the floors of the two sheds by raising it 5cm higher, material cost = 8'380 THB, labour = 1'600 THB( 2 man, 200THB/day x 4 ), Misc cost = 400 THB..... total = 10'380 THB

And i still have 18'470 THB balance....ok~ last time i check, i left 13'000 plus....i drank quite a bit ...to celebrate ...everyday

My point is .... Why build a palace and see the capital return in say...3 or 5 years ? I build my sheds and got my capital return in round one.

Maybe i'm lucky on my first time but if i were to sell now...let say the farmgate price now is 53/kg and i'll profit 500/head totaling 29'000 THB...i've already recovered three quarter of initiate capital...and if no price hike in feed and farmgate price remain the same, i'd stand to nett three quarter of the total profit in round two. If 3-5 years just to recover the initiate capital ? ....too long, lot of things can happen within that period of time....like bad things~

IA...Would you mind if i ask what's your business plan and forcast, your period of ROI for building your 6 stars shed ? I'm really curious.

Cheers

RBH,

I tips me hat to you Sir, well done excellent strategy and result. You are correct my direction is different and much longer term, even than you suggest. I hope you will excuse me but the details of my business plan aren't something I care to share in open discussion. Lets just say I am building something that has to be durable, flexible and will provide an income past the point when I cannot commit as fully as over the past two years. Happy to share the what, how and conceptually, the why online, if your curiosity demands more than that it will have to be offline. PM me and lets exchange information, I'm all ears like a bag of wheat.

Keep up the good work.

Isaan Aussie

so how much did you spend in total building your pig shed ?...

RBH,

As I said in post 9 above, knocked a big hole in a million baht, close enough?

IA

Grimleybob,

For your information the starting point for my sty design was actually an American monitor roof barn. The basic design I downloaded for this building it may be of help to you for some basic ideas. What I liked about it was the storage area loft where straw and feed could be stored away from pests etc, but more importantly the opportunity to create natural flow through ventilation. I will put together more on my sty later, but since you liked it have a look at the attached.

Monitor roof barn.pdf

Isaan Aussie

search the forum here; a plethora of same same info... btw, u are talking about the thai cows not dairy arent u?

dont need a bull; pay for a neighbors stud or use AI with a good quality bull semen (comes frozen in straws)

as for money, unless u really know what u are doing-- think of it as a hobby with losses. animals get sick, die, run out of food, pasture changes, and when thais need quick money, cows are expendable and at hand cash, often for a loss. remember also that cows calve singlets, not twins...

the reason u buy with calf at foot is to prove also that she can get pregnant... buying pregnant only unless u check or with someone who knows their cows, u wont know... also, dont buy what someone is really willing to sell unless u know he/she has debts, htere is probably a problem with the animal. raising cows the thai way is hit or miss; if u want to make money, u will have to learn some minor vet stuff, parastie control, etc.... read away through the whole forum.... good luck

For those of us who have been there and done that, especially like me, at arms length, one word "BRILLANT" response.

OK Pig Farmers and those who wish to be. Now we have a pinned place to focus our discussions with old hands contributing experiences and knowledge, and advice to newbies. I thank our moderator Bina for setting this up.

I believe there is such a vast pool of knowledge and experience amongst the people on this forum it would be an absolute shame to see it wasted. I have gained invaluable knowledge and support from a select group of selfless individuals who contribute to this forum and in particular this topic. Hopefully we collectively can benefit by sharing what we are doing, thinking, learning and creating.

To that end I submit a brief article on a topic which has caused some difference of opinion in the past. Enjoy, crititise or suggest improvements please. So here is where I'm at with the new sty and gestation pens.

My Sty Ideas and Execution TV no1.pdf

Isaan Aussie

Very impressed you can build my cow pens if you want. My idea is almost the same central isle two pens for 10 cows and caves either side ad lib water and fodder concrete floor and rice straw bedding. Have you got a picture of exterior of the whole building. Whats your guesstimate on the cost of a similar structure 20mx40m bob

Real quick one Bob, what you see in the attached knocked a big hole in a million baht. The sty has 7 pens each side so is 21 x 12 metres post to post plus overhang. There is a large truck entry in front and a herdman (me) house yet to be done in front. More than happy to offer engineering ideas to flesh out your concepts just to keep the mind active. Have a great chief engineer capable friend who can turn a sows ear into a silk purse. Yes we can find you an answer thats affordable. Keep talking.

Isaan Aussie

OK Pig Farmers and those who wish to be. Now we have a pinned place to focus our discussions with old hands contributing experiences and knowledge, and advice to newbies. I thank our moderator Bina for setting this up.

I believe there is such a vast pool of knowledge and experience amongst the people on this forum it would be an absolute shame to see it wasted. I have gained invaluable knowledge and support from a select group of selfless individuals who contribute to this forum and in particular this topic. Hopefully we collectively can benefit by sharing what we are doing, thinking, learning and creating.

To that end I submit a brief article on a topic which has caused some difference of opinion in the past. Enjoy, crititise or suggest improvements please. So here is where I'm at with the new sty and gestation pens.

My Sty Ideas and Execution TV no1.pdf

Isaan Aussie

Thanks for that !

This is exactly what we intend to do although the certification necessity isn't a requirement because in itself it does not carry much value. (I'm speaking out of experience....)

(A certified farm with a neighboring chemical fertilizer and pesticide user doesn't fit in our true organic requirements......)

We have a laboratory where we test samples already. I'm looking for the 'devoted' organic producer.

Thanks for your help,

Martin

Well Martin,

You will have no problem finding people on the forum who are devoted to doing things as organically as they can. I would class what I do as "natural" given the realities of Thailand. I use commercial feeds and a minimum of drugs but feel it is the most realistic way to get a product price balance. I produce compost from all excrements from my pigs and a range of other things based on vermicast and EM for pesticides etc... The pigs are housed on concrete floors with rice hulls for bedding and waste collection both in the pens and in the filteration sections of the waste system. The waste water is processed in septic tanks and the sediments used for fertiliser. Many of us try as hard as we can to be responsible.

From your earlier post you wont be buying many animals and you could consider some form of contract growing to exact requirements with a small holder close to your market. That would allow say one litter of pigs to be grown out every one or two months within a more conventional environment. These pigs fed and cared for under organic dictates whilst others under normal feed and vet regimes. Most of the feed could be produced on farm or close by for such a small number of animals. Slaughtered as your order book required.

By the way there are organic certification standards here. Certification can be via local Thai or expat sources.

Isaan Aussie

Thomo,

Here in Isaan, assuming that the traditional type of agreement is struck, you pay nothing for someone to take care of your cattle. You share the prodgeny, first calf to the tenderer second to you. As to cost to purchase I am not current but the way I have done it in the past is to look for a pregnant cow with a calf at foot. I would think that you can buy native cattle here under that arrangement for less than 10K for cow and calf. Perhaps someone else can give you a better indication on price.

Isaan Aussie

I never run when I can walk Exile and I hope you dont think me pedantic but you misread PN's numbers. He makes most of the money in only 6 weeks not consistently over the year. Any breakdown of a harvester during this near 24, 7 period of time is expensive as the income becomes nil. It is also a bit more than just a few rai, I think the harvesting operation number mentioned was 2,000 rai.

I wish you well in your hobby farming. Please understand my comments were meant as a compliment to a very well organised guy and not as any sort of snipe at you or your family.

Isaan Aussie

Thanks for the reply Aussie.

OK, it makes sense now. 2,000 rai of harvesting is another league.

I missed the 2k thing.

I like to break things down. Basically he mentions 1.2 mill/yr minimum.

Averaged out, that means 25k per/week.

Mate, I love reading your posts, very informative.

Please keep it up.

Cheers

You are welcome exile, but be warned. I post my opinions and experiences based on the fact that my father told me "The man that never makes mistakes, does nothing, and learns the same." I am constantly learning

issanAussie

How many pigs are you producing PA? What area of Issan are you? I'm not interested in growing pigs but I am interested in turning pigs into other products

grimleybob

GB,

The number of pigs I'm producing is small but that is not the point. Right now the question is how many do you want to convert? At 56 baht locally and less nearby, you can get as many as you can handle for a baht or two over the odds. I'm in Sisaket province.

Glad to see that you see the current opportunity for what it is. Good luck, PM me if you wish to discuss details further.

Isaan Aussie

I never run when I can walk Exile and I hope you dont think me pedantic but you misread PN's numbers. He makes most of the money in only 6 weeks not consistently over the year. Any breakdown of a harvester during this near 24, 7 period of time is expensive as the income becomes nil. It is also a bit more than just a few rai, I think the harvesting operation number mentioned was 2,000 rai.

I wish you well in your hobby farming. Please understand my comments were meant as a compliment to a very well organised guy and not as any sort of snipe at you or your family.

Isaan Aussie