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IsaanAussie
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Posts posted by IsaanAussie
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I had the same problem. Broadcast lime on the surface, pump the water to oxygenate and spray 1::1000 EM on the surface.
My problem caused by black water from pigs septic system. Shock killed those fish (I wasn't aware they were in there) that dont do well in green water ponds
Isaan aussie
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Yesterday I checked in town and was told the live price near me is 56 for good pigs. Strangely the pork price is still 130 baht in the hot market and 115 in Tescos. Then who takes a government decree here seriously? If you believe anybody it has to be CPF, obviously.
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You make 1 million bht+ per year out of tractor work??
I find that very hard to believe.
My wifes family own tractors/harvesters etc and they work very hard.
MAX income is 200k/year.
There is a lot of competition out there, every second Thai owns some kind of tractor in Issan.
Maybe I'm missing something here, could you give us a breakdown of where your income is derived?
I have already told you that I harvest over 2k rai/pa, at Bt600/650/rai the income is in excess of Bt1.2m, plus tractor work (plough, rotavate, baling, land management, etc), income from 40 rai (mainly rice and chillies). I don't really care if you believe or not - you obviously miss quite a lot.
What is it that people say about looking at the forest and failing to see the trees? Or is it the other way around? I have seen PN's equipment and operation and whilst the equipment may be the same, the business operation I would suggest is quite possibly very different. From my own experience, my little tractor was (ab)used by relatives in their attempts to get rich and simply sat there until I got back and paid to fix it. The work that was lined up, forgotten. Now when the story is retold, they tell of the year when they only made 9,000 baht ploughing. My side of the same story is I lost 10,000 baht pulling out tree stumps with a chain tied to the back end of the plough.
I mean no disrespect to your wifes family Exile, but I suggest you look as much at the business acumen and methods as the machinery.
Isaan Aussie
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IMHO I believe that this "shock" to the prices was no different to any over inflated market correction such as the financial mess we endured in 2008, it had to happen. The price of pork simply got too high and the pork market started to suffer. Whats happening now is like the New Year sales all department stores have to clear stock. RBH has made some very good points over the last week about the way the market is controlled and hopefully he is right about the price early next year. Personally I think there will be a slight improvement after the panic sales are over. I think around 55 baht mark is the right level.
When I first got involved the price was below 50 baht and the small holding farmer was just surviving with high feed prices. Recent announcements on potential increases in corn and soy prices in the US and the fact that China will be importing much more feed grains this year leads me to believe that feed prices will rise soon. That to me is the potential threat we face medium term and not the gross margin on this and the next few batches of market pigs.
As Fruity pointed out the 65 baht figure was a bonanza and for me allowed a maximum return on over-investment and poor decision making. My mid-course corrections are over and the stock that I have for sale will go at whatever the prevailing rate is or for whatever value add I can muster above those prices. One thing that has been drilled into me over the last two years, is that keeping stock until the price improves or the litter size increases is folly. Fruity rightly points out, if the pigs are ready for sale, then sell, now, and realise that most of our mistakes are in the lack of market knowledge.
As ever I bow to the more experienced posters such as RBH and Fruity, and advise other new chums to listen to them closely its solid advice. As much as I am enjoying my pigs and the farming, it is a business, a marginal and highly seasonal business that is affected by vested interests and the consumers pocket, it needs to be managed as well as possible.
Good Luck to us all, we will need our fair share
Isaan Aussie
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Depends what market segment, but assume 54 baht live weight as a start.
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I want to thank every contributer to this thread. It is, by a long ways, the BEST ONE ON THE FORUM. IA, you have the makings of probably the most informative and hilarious book ever for the aspiring falang immigrant. Taken as a whole, this thread in its entirety would make a terrific read for the outside world. Thank you all.
Re: animism - I posted this elsewhere a while ago in response to someone's question about mysterious rural explosions:
On the way to our village, we passed three fellows walking along the road and carrying what appeared to be musket-loaders.
"What are they up to," I ask Herself.
"Funeral," she says. "They shoot."
"What do they shoot, please."
"Ghost. Bad spirit."
Just one more thing I love about rural Thailand.
P
Peter,
Thanks for the support. We should all instantly join in and sing the Python song "Always look on the bright side of life" There is always a lighter side even to the frustrations of rural Isaan life, its just a matter of looking for it. The alternative can be very depressing. Writing it down with a little humour added makes many of my memories much more enjoyable.
Isaan Aussie
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Luck? Co-incidence? or do these spirits really help out?
In my observation there is a good reason auspicious numbers chosen for the lottery work so well in Thailand. It is because each and every Thai person chooses lottery numbers based on something auspicious. So anytime anyone wins, it is of course every single time able to be linked to an auspicious event that led to its choosing. Then to seal the deal it's only the winner that people will talk about and everyone quickly forgets the existence of the other million similar auspicious numbers that didn't work, including their own.
Canopy,
Of course you are right. The people behind the Hoon are no mugs, 80 to 1 on the range of 00 to 99 and 800 to 1 on the range of 000 to 999. How can they loose? The odds are the odds, the sellers are in constant touch with the boss and they close numbers that have been covered too much.
But explain this to me. My wife has a better than average run of luck with the numbers, but has her lean times. But, since that spirit house went in she has not lost once, yes she takes a few other non-winners as well but on 5 baht or less bets she is currently over eight thousand baht better off in a few weeks. She was told but the magic man who set the house up not to share any number the spirits give to here and she will keep on winning. She hasn't shared nor lost since?
Auspicious indeed, do I believe it? Well she is enjoying it, so does it matter? Her standing in the community has benefited enormously. Now that I like!
Isaan Aussie
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Ok Pigsters consider this,
I am a small holding pig farmer like many others. My objectives are not to get rich from pigs but to get comfortable from a range of value added products which relate to an integrated pig farming operation. But as an individual it is difficult to cover as many of the niche opportunities as exist, or to produce the volume necessary to create a significant market base and costing.
How many of you have considered being part of some form of collective marketing operation? Take the opportunity of the reduced returns currently facing us and lets say one main objective of the collective was to achieve a return of 70 baht/kg live weight. How many would be interested in that?
It is my belief that now is the time to strike this opportunity. The niche markets exist and are still too small to warrant interest from the large vertically integrated farming companies. Now is the time for us to vertically integrate for mutual advantage. The options are simply presented by the fall of 10 baht per kilo retail all of which is to be absorbed by the growers, us.
Isaan Aussie
I hasten to add that I would like to talk to anyone who can see this as a positive opportunity. The nay sayers can talk to anyone else they like, under the current circumstances I have little time or patience for negative attitudes.
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Update on Living with the Spirits, (refer previous yarn posted)
Once you install your spirit houses you have to visit each day for three days, offering food and drink and talking to the spirits. After that the devout will visit daily, or when needing help with a problem, but its a must to visit on every Big Buddha day.
Yesterday was such a Big day and the wife and MIL visited the shrine to pay homage but with the real reason being it was also Govt Lottery day and the local illegal lottery has a special 3 digit game and they wanted the winning number. So the piece of the original spirit tree was rubbed with powder in a small corner and the number sought.
Guess what 372 was revealed and it won at 800 to 1.
Luck? Co-incidence? or do these spirits really help out?
Isaan Aussie
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I am not in the harvesting business but have seen enough of it to offer the following advice. You will need to run the machine as close to 24 7 as you can during the limited 6 week season to maximise return. So apart from mechanical issues with the machine, anything that can prevent the machine working must be fully planned for. Moving the machine between jobs by truck or trailer, that transport must be always on hand. If a trailer is used then there are two issues, firstly the towing vehicle capacity and trailer ground clearance. Most pickups are rated to pull a towed total of under 2 tonnes. If the machine fills bags then there is no issue with the customer handling those. However of the machine fills a hopper and then transfers in bulk to a truck, that is a different matter. Most farmers can organise a 4 or 6 wheel truck but will it be there when needed and can one truck keep up with the harvester?
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dmax Don't know where in Issan you are, but if near Ubon I will be there for the hash on Saturday, if you want to talk about rubber. Better still Friday night at the wrongway, as I will be to drunk to speak after the hash. Jim
Will be thinking of you on those rubber legs Saturday night. The drunker you stand there the longer you will get...? Still feeding the pigs...will miss it again
Isaan Aussie
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http://www.jircas.affrc.go.jp/project/value_addition/Local_Vegetables_of_Thailand_home.html
A bit difficult unless you have the botanical names but has good clear information if you can "weed" your way through it.
Isaan Aussie
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I think we can forget about this. My misses talked to the owner today and she will not compromise on me getting the place livable but paying reduced rent to do it. Nobody would live in the property as it is but she feels we could move in today. The sinks are leaking, the aircon is on a table in the kitchen Every single wall needs painting the outside had rubbish everywhere. The house and location are ideal and she is on to a winner, as I would get all the work done. She feels that the new tenant should move in and do all the work themselves. I spent today driving miles around the area looking for somewhere. i went as far as Utum porn pisai, still no luck. This is not a good situation. I have spent 3 weeks living in 1 room with 4 in my family and am still having to pay 4k/month. Just a waiting game I suppose
I have lived in rented houses here for a number of years. The owner of this house is typical, reluctant to spend a baht or reduce the rent. She is playing the waiting game and knows she will find a tenant soon. I have always just fixed up what needed doing myself. You already like the house and haven't found any alternates, so as the owner has indicated, Up to You. Stay in a single room or just get on with fixing something better. So without having seen the house or knowing your position, my uninformed advice is to follow the Nike principle "Just Do It"
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I think we can forget about this. My misses talked to the owner today and she will not compromise on me getting the place livable but paying reduced rent to do it. Nobody would live in the property as it is but she feels we could move in today. The sinks are leaking, the aircon is on a table in the kitchen Every single wall needs painting the outside had rubbish everywhere. The house and location are ideal and she is on to a winner, as I would get all the work done. She feels that the new tenant should move in and do all the work themselves. I spent today driving miles around the area looking for somewhere. i went as far as Utum porn pisai, still no luck. This is not a good situation. I have spent 3 weeks living in 1 room with 4 in my family and am still having to pay 4k/month. Just a waiting game I suppose
I have lived in rented houses here for a number of years. The owner of this house is typical, reluctant to spend a baht or reduce the rent. She is playing the waiting game and knows she will find a tenant soon. I have always just fixed up what needed doing myself. You already like the house and haven't found any alternates, so as the owner has indicated, Up to You. Stay in a single room or just get on with fixing something better. So without having seen the house or knowing your position, my uninformed advice is to follow the Nike principle "Just Do It"
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RBH,
Love your story, wish mine was as successful, no profits yet. But we share the same resolve that to get it done here needs hands on hard work.
Too many people I talk to ask a different dog question, they say "Why buy a dog and bark yourself?" Well I've got a dog and I bark all the time.....
IA
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Can help with the electrician. Got a good one here who wiring up renovations for me. All earthed power outlets and well thought out circuit breaker layout.
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Neil,
There are a number of people around that work in Bangkok doing this sort of job. A few in my village, south of Sisaket, two of them are at home at the moment and probably available. Are you going to supervise yourself and how will materials (purchases and usage control) be handled? On the rates side of things these guys that are any good earn 200 to 300 baht per day assuming they can live on site. If you wish to use a contractor that will have all the tools required then you can ask for a total price. Paint prices are dependent on the quality you require, most companies producing several different brands at different price points, often with little quality difference. Send me a PM if you wish to discuss details.
Isaan Aussie
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Thai Pig Board plans to upgrade pig farming system
[1 September 2010] Thailand’s Pig Board will draw up a five-year action package to upgrade the country’s entire pig farming system, involving plans to develop: pig production and products; pig and pig product marketing; abattoir and transportation; and input and quality control. The action plan aims to upgrade pig farming and processing standard to disease free, hygienic and safe to consume, Agriculture Minister Thira Wongsamut said.
Thai pork price affected by Cambodia’s ban
[22 September 2010] Pork price in Thailand is likely to be pressured by Cambodia’s ban on pig imports from Thailand as this will increase domestic supply. Cambodia has halted pigs import from Thailand and Vietnam to safeguard the local industry. Thailand exports around 2000 pigs/month to Cambodia. Thailand’s Department of Internal Trade will meet today to discuss the pork price situation.
Thai authority orders pork price cut
[27 September 2010] Thailand’s Department of Internal Trade or DIT has ordered pork retailers to reduce the retail price of pork to THB 105- 110/kg (USD 3.42- 3.58) from THB 110-115/kg (USD 3.58- 3.75). This follows a decline in live pig prices to THB 55-56/kg (USD 1.79- 1.82) from THB 61- 62/kg (USD 1.99- 2.02) earlier. The new prices will take effect on October 1. Those who flout the rule can face imprisonment or be fined, said DIT’s Director-General Watcharee Wimuktayon. Pork prices have declined due to cooler weather conditions and increasing supply of around 2,000 pigs/month after Cambodia’s ban on Thai pig exports.
Comment:
Some weeks ago we members were warned by a lucky member that CP was going to drop domestic prices for pigs. The three articles above show just how volatile Thailands agricultural industry can be. The indication here is that because 2,000 pigs are now not exported, producers will suffer a 20% price drop. While retailers and industrial integrators will only be hit with a 5% cut. I have to admit I suspect there could be a little collusion afoot.
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To those involved in and those contemplating involvement in pig farming here is a first contribution. I attach a link to a recent FAO report which takes a comparitive look at the industries of Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. The report is of value as it focuses on the industry structure and strategies covering the large industrial farmers in the context of the small holder. The opportunity appraisal for urban and rural markets I believe to be very interesting. As a background read it should help those involved and those thinking about it to plan more realistically.
Worth the read, enjoy
Smallholder Swine-Pig Meat Production in Asia.pdf
Or if you prefer the direct link, use this
http://www.aphca.org/index.php?option=com_jdownloads&Itemid=53&view=finish&cid=3&catid=13
Isaan Aussie
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That's an exciting adventure that you are undertaking and I wish you the best experience, good exercise and healthy, tasty food.
I dont' know that book, but if Jandtaa has recommended it then I would take it to note. I worked at a biodynamic-french intensive research garden in California many years ago with John Jeavons the author of How to Grow More Vegetables
http://www.amazon.co...e/dp/0898154154 and learned many of the principles of raised bed organic gardening. I came to firmly believe in the superiority that system. I don't know what similarities there are in the book you mention.
But one thing you should be sure to get right is the proper use of the organic matter that you have obtained. Basic issue is that you should not plant directly into raw organic matter (which has not been composted or aged) because it will require a considerable draw on the nutrient resources in the soil for the decomposition process, to the detriment of your plants. Organic matter (manure, ground coconut shells, rice hulls) should be composted first or mixed with the mineral soil (native or imported) and allowed to mature for a month or so in order for the intitial, high nitrogen requirement decomposition to take place before you plant the bed. You can add raw organic matter to the surface as a mulch layer, but don't plant directly into soil/organic medium that has not been partially decomposed. The exception is that if you add a ntirogen source, like manure, then the other raw organic matter will have the nitrogen it needs and not draw as much from the soil. But I would still let it sit fallow for a month before planting. Getting the mixture right, percentage of each component is not an exact science, but you should strive for at least 5% organic matter content in the soil. The manure content should be very conservative.
It's hard to know the exact condition of the manure that you were given without knowing the history. If it's moist and stinky, then it's probably too fresh to dig in and plant into, it will be too "hot" and could burn your new little plant starts. If it's dry and powdery, then it has probably been aged in a pile where some decomposition has taken place, some of the hot nitrogen has leached out, and you could mix a limited amount with your rice husks and soil. For a 4 ft x 4 ft bed, four sacks of manure in 6 inches of soil may be too much, start with one.
I would caution you about creating a layer of coconut material at the bottom. Layers of different material can create problems for drainage, contrary to what you might think. It's better to have a homogenous soil medium and maybe loosen and mix the top layer of the native soil at the bottom of the bed with the soil you will plant into. If the native soil is reasonably good, then use it, mix in your organic matter instead of bringing in totally different soil.
We are approaching the end of the rainy season and start of the cooler weather. It's a little tricky to decide what to plant, and it depends on how soon you will have it together to plant. Some things will grow well, others it's best to wait until late Feburary or March when it starts to warm up. I hope other members will contribute and advise you what to plant when. Ka Naa (Chinese Kale) is easy, Tua Pak Yao (long beans) is too, but requires some space and trellis support.
Some things you can plant seeds directly in the ground, but it's usually better to germinate and grow in small pots or flats while you are preparing your bed and soil, then plant out the starts when you are totally ready.
If I were you, and I wanted to get started and get some vegetables started that could mature for harvest in the next two months before the December cold nights, I would buy some ready-made sack compost to mix with your soil, and save the raw organic matter you have to start a compost pile or for mulch. At Kamtieng plant market in CM you can get "Maw Din" compost from CP (150 to 180 baht per sack) , or a lower cost alternative pictured below (100 baht/sack); and at Dokmai Garden you can buy sacks of real good compost from "Natural Agriculture", it's locally made in Mae Taeng area. Mix the compost up to 50% with your soil. Then try to find some vegetable plants that are already started; not easy to find here, but ask around. You can get your hands dirty and learn a few things, enjoy the products of your labor and new passion, then plan your next beds and be ready for the spring growing season.
A bed covering is wise to protect the young plants from getting beaten down with a a heavy rain like we had last night. The black or green shade cloth with bamboo poles is cheap and easy.
The seeds that you find at Kamtieng from the major Thai companies should be good. Don't buy more that you will use, germination rates will decrease if you save them over for next year or more. don
Dear Dr,
I am making compost at the moment and selling to local villagers for a fraction of the numbers you quoted. Mate find me some customers and we are in business. How about 75 baht for a 30kg feed bag full, is there a market?
Isaan Aussie
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I must say, I'm really impressed by the many excellent posts in this thread. This truly has been one of the most informative threads I have seen on TV!
Many thanks to all that have contributed such excellent information! :jap:
To the OP, I hope you understand just some of the pitfalls. You won't get rich, maybe you will just be able to survive. Only if you do a lot of study, learn quickly, work hard, commit to a huge amount of dedication, and take control. By all means get rid of those rose colored glasses. Of course the family will have all these great money making schemes that will drain your pocketbooks. Ask yourself, if there are all these great potentials to make it big, then why is Isaan one of the most impoverished areas of Thailand? Don't abandon your existing forms of income. You will need it.
Even in the western world, you need to plan on 5 years before you make a profit with a new enterprise. Most new start-ups fail during the first year of operation. Usually because not enough funds/resources were set aside to support it, until it could start generating revenue.
Farming the world over is a difficult business. It's the only business you pay retail for your materials, transportation and services; only to sell your finished product for wholesale. It's fast becoming a business only for big corporations, the small farmer doesn't stand a chance.
BB,
Well summed up. I hope that "a chance" even a small one does exist, I for one will keep looking for it. But for now the rain has stopped persisting down so it time for the pigs to get a late breakfast.
Finner,
It seems my internet connection was the reason I couldn't see the link. Got it now.
IA
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Finner,
All I see is a blank space. Same result that I have had trying to find a "Real" answer. So far just costs more to make it worse. Give it another try
IA
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Get some OCTACIN, follow instructions & all should be well. Inject over 3 days I find that this works best with first shot combined with pendistrep.
Thanks for the link and the advice altough Isaan Aussie the link read more like a horror story but some good reading.
fruity we gave all the pigs OCTACIN oral, however when we were out the mother in law in her infernate wisdom chopped down a bannana tree and gave it ot them. It was enough to clog up a large elelphant however we will monitor today and if there is still a problem then after reading about "pendistrep" it sounds llike it might do the trick so will give this a whirl.
Thanks again Scully
Hey Scully,
Billy Connelly once talked about an elephant defecating in a road intersection in Scotland. His advice was "Treat it as a roundabout". Sound applicable?
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This is an article well worth reading for anyone investing domestically in Thailand, especially in farming. I believe the implications will reach isolated and impoverished Isaan as quickly as elsewhere.
Whilst a strong Thai baht will help keep feed costs down, the prices for produce will fall as exporters flood the domestic market to adjust position. A food company planning to grow out pork for export may well decide to dump weaned pigs, reducing local prices to the small producer. Those grown under contract will attract lower prices. Current finished stock in Isaan, already under slight pressure with export bans to Cambodia (PRRS) producing an over supply when domestic consumption (seasonal farmer cash position) is down.
Much of the "family provided" income comes from young people working in labour intensive industries involved in exports. Those exports diminish, incomes here go down, more unemployed mouths to feed, less cash to spend and increased bad debts.
The "Money Tree Farangs" that have external incomes will see those reduced even further due to the high and increasing value of the Thai baht.
Obviously, this situation will provide opportunities for those who have cash reserves and can ride out a storm looking for bargains and importing cheaper goods. Good luck to the well heeled and the careful planners. To the rest of us, well lemmings, the cliff could be only a step away.
Isaan Aussie
Green Slime In The Pond
in Farming in Thailand Forum
Posted
Well actually this Aussie didnt need to chuck any in, deed done by a grazing buffalo for me. Two bales of rice straw went in a couple of months ago. Thanks for the tip though, I may try that in future. Come to think of it the water did seem a little clearer afterwards.