TallGuyJohninBKK

That type of chat was never part of her vocabulary. Thai public school librarians don't generally speak that way.

That was pretty much my point. In a country of 70+ million people, the "I don't know anyone who" line seems pretty meaningless in discussing such things. Thailand's 20,000+ COVID deaths thus far work out to about 1 person dying from COVID out of every 3,500 or so residents on average. Dunno about others here, but my social circle doesn't get anywhere close to 3,500 people in Thailand, so hardly surprising that I don't happen to know any of them personally. But, that irrelevant detail shouldn't in any way be used to minimize the fact that 20,000+ people have died of COVID in Thailand thus far. Or to try to slyly intimate that maybe those deaths didn't really all occur because, after all, "I don't know anyone who..."

I'm not vouching for the accuracy of the Swedish study... But it was done using national government health system data, and authored by academics who argue it bolsters the case for better use of booster shots. So, I'm not about to dismiss their findings out of hand as some kind of anti-vax charade. And their findings regarding the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines match up pretty well with what's been previously reported for those. Most of the other vaccine followup research that's been done has been fairly limited in the time spans for tracking cases post vaccination. So I think the Swedish study is looking at vaccine effectiveness results going out for a longer period of time post vaccination.

More than 20,000 people have died of COVID in Thailand since the beginning of the pandemic, and I don't personally know any of them. What significance anyone might attach to whether I or anyone else happens to know any of the victims personally or not pretty much seems irrelevant to me. People on my soi are not required to report their deaths to me, or the reasons for those deaths, last time I checked. But none of that detracts in the slightest from the real fact that 20,000+ people have died of COVID in Thailand since early 2020 -- no matter how much some may try to minimize that fact. https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/photos/a.106455480972785/454802586138071/?type=3

Lucky you, the MoPH reported Chonburi province only had two COVID deaths in the past 24 hours, and 200 new COVID cases reported. Guess you didn't know any of those folks either.

The Thai numbers publicly reported were deaths where COVID was specifically found to be a principal cause of death, and then with the added detail of any co-morbidities/risk factors, if present. The Thai government started out giving a little mini personal profile on the details of each COVID death in the country. But that ceased and they shifted to brief summaries of key info such as age and province long before the daily COVID death toll topped 300 per day earlier this year. I have no idea what they were reporting in your home town.

My Thai wife, who was taught English in school here by native Thai nationality EN teachers, was just explaining to me how Thailand probably ranked so low on this ranking list because Thailand never lost a "wah".... I paused, and asked "Wah??? What's "Wah???" And she explained, yes, "wah" against foreigners.... And I replied, "Darling, I think you mean "WAR"! And she said, "yes, but my Thai teacher taught me... WAH!" Even after being together for many years, it seems we have one of those kinds of "my Thai teacher taught me" conversations every week or so... My wife most of the time by now knows how to pronounce things correctly, but probably just likes to "hack" me off by rubbing her native TH EN learning stuff in my face! ????

Bangkok had its own version of this same kind of thing:

At various points in the pandemic, the Thai government and police made very clear and public threats against anyone publicizing photos of patients in COVID treatment/care facilities here. That occurred after someone posted on social media photos of a young women laying in bed in one such facility that highlighted personal privacy concerns. That, in part, led to most of the circulating photos of COVID field hospitals in Thailand being shot and distributed by the government or local media when the facilities were being constructed or just nearing opening, but almost never from inside once they were already occupied by patients. That said, some of those kinds of photos did manage to circulate, and they often showed very crowded and unkempt facilities. And at one point, the government -- facing a shortage of available hospital beds in Bangkok -- even arranged for trains to export asymptomatic or mild symptom COVID patients back to their home provinces in the North East for care there. https://apnews.com/article/health-coronavirus-pandemic-thailand-627b3482c86556e78ba0ae7255ff3586 "BANGKOK (AP) — Authorities in Thailand began transporting some people who tested positive for the coronavirus from Bangkok to their hometowns on Tuesday for isolation and treatment to alleviate the burden on the capital’s overwhelmed medical system. A train carrying more than 100 patients and medical workers in full protective gear left the city for the northeast. It will drop patients off in seven provinces, where they will be met by health officers and taken to hospitals. Medical authorities in Bangkok said Monday that all ICU beds for COVID-19 patients at public hospitals were full and that some of the sick were being treated in emergency rooms. Officials said they have asked army medics to help out at civilian hospitals." The medical care and health care systems for COVID patients in Thailand got very bad back at the height of the most recent wave in July and August, when the numbers of COVID patients nationwide in serious/critical condition peaked at 5,600+ on a daily basis plus another nearly 1,200 requiring intubation (highlighted in red outline box below). MoPH daily COVID report for Aug. 15, 2021: https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/photos

Here's a prior version of that same MoPH daily deaths report by province from back in August when daily death numbers were higher. On this particular day, August 9, out of 149 total COVID deaths reported in Thailand, 13 were reported from the North East: In translation on this one particular day, NE COVID deaths were: 5 in Nakhon Ratchasima, 2 each in Ubon Ratchathani, Nong Bua Lamphu and Chaiyaphum, and 1 each in Surin and Khon Kaen. Apparently you didn't know any of these unfortunate folks either....

Pretty much every day, AFAIK, the Thai MoPH does a public report posted to one of their Facebook pages that lists all the COVID deaths for the prior day, and the provinces where they occurred by number of deaths, unfortunately, in Thai language, although sometimes we have EN translations of that province info in the daily COVID cases thread. Back when I was monitoring those on a daily basis at the peak of things in August with 200 to 300 COVID deaths per day, yes, there were deaths being reported in various NE provinces. The daily report for today had a relatively light number of 32 COVID deaths -- lately the daily numbers have been averaging 50-60. Of all the various provinces listed today, the only one from the NE for the past 24 hours was ONE in Buriram. Other days, there likely would be more. https://www.facebook.com/informationcovid19/posts/454764262808570 PS @atpeace I'm guessing you don't happen to know the person who died of COVID in Buriram during the past day.... But since you didn't actually KNOW him or her, I guess that means that person, and all the others prior, didn't really die -- or at least, that's what your faulty reasoning would suggest.

Upon checking, the National News Bureau of Thailand (government) announcement about this -- which is the basis of these various news reports including the vague OP here -- is clear in saying Pfizer AND Moderna... Except with the caveat that they'll supposedly offer whichever one is available on any given day.... And who knows what the government's availability of no-charge Moderna is going to be...at a time when the private hospitals are selling their Moderna doses. "BANGKOK (NNT) - Bang Sue Grand Station Vaccination Center announced that from November 26, the center will only offer Pfizer and Moderna jabs as 1st, 2nd and 3rd doses, depending on what is available on the day." https://thainews.prd.go.th/en/news/detail/TCATG211126123455768

You should read my summary of the Swedish study in the post I linked to above... and pay attention to the second chart I included from that study that looks at vaccine effectiveness beyond 6 months in preventing COVID hospitalization and death. The overall value is less than 50% VE that far after original vaccination. Unfortunately, they don't break out VE against hospitalization and death by individual vaccines, like they do for VE against symptomatic infection. But, the vast majority of participants in their study got Pfizer vaccines, so that should begin to tell you something.. I'm a strong proponent of COVID vaccines. The authors of the Swedish study are also, and say it reinforces the need for booster doses. But the results in that study are a very bad look for the AZ vaccine's effectiveness at 4 months and beyond.

Appreciate the thanks and mention... Glad to see it worked out... However, it's not really AIS's program... They're just serving as a front door website for access... Those registering thru the AIS website are simply being routed into the MoPH's vacccination program at such locations as Bang Sue.

I was going to say,it would have been nice if the OP article had actually said WHICH mRNA vaccine or vaccines the government is now going to be willing to offer as primary vaccinations via those locations in BKK. Pfizer clearly yes... Moderna, who knows?

fyi....

Right now, AFAIK, the only booster option available in Thailand to someone who has already received two AZ doses is to purchase a booster dose of Moderna thru one of the various private hospitals offering Moderna for sale. Hopefully in the coming weeks/months, the Thai government will put forward a coherent vaccine boosters policy and framework for those OTHER than the two dose Sinopharm and Sinovac folks who currently qualify for booster shots.

fyi....

A cord-cutter's guide to the best Black Friday 2021 deals https://www.techhive.com/article/3642368/cord-cutters-guide-to-the-best-black-friday-2021-deals.html

Every Black Friday Streaming Sale: Hulu, Disney+, Philo, Sling TV, Paramount+, Discovery+, AMC+ and More - Complete List (2021) https://thestreamable.com/news/every-black-friday-streaming-sale-complete-list-2021

I believe, the Hulu fine print says you, based on the email you apply with, can NOT be an active current subscriber or have been one in the past 30 days. You also may well need to be signing up with a U.S. IP address, not a Thai or other foreign IP address. I signed up just fine earlier today with a Gmail address I've previously had as an active Hulu account. So, I wasn't creating a new account/log-in... just clicking the promotion link and then signing in my my pre-existing Hulu ID and password for that (inactive) Hulu account via my U.S. IP address.

Starting today, there are a lot of streaming video subscription services based in the U.S. offering various Black Friday related promotions. One of the best is a repeat from past years -- Hulu is offering its ad-supported video on demand service for 99 cent plus tax ($1.07 per month total) for the coming 12 months. Normally $6.99+ per month. Open to new and returning subscribers. If you're a current active Hulu subscriber, apparently, you'd have to create a new account with them. With Hulu, I believe you have to be using a U.S. IP address to use their service. https://www.hulu.com/welcome Amazon for its Amazon Prime members is also offering a bunch of limited time premium video subscription services for $1 a month, though Amazon's promotions seem to mostly be limited to two-months of duration before reverting to regular prices. https://decider.com/2021/11/23/prime-video-black-friday-deal-2021/ https://ew.com/tv/amazon-prime-video-black-friday-deals-2021/

Overall, I think the above results pretty much tell us what the bulk of the other vaccine effectiveness studies have previously found -- Moderna has the highest VE level, Pfizer trails Moderna some, and AZ is even lower. Although the above results track post vaccination infections farther out than most prior studies I've seen... And the 6 month and longer results for Moderna in preventing infections aren't very good (59%), the Pfizer number is really weak (29%), and the AZ number is non-existent. As the authors say... the results are a good argument in favor of the need for booster vaccinations. I just wish the Thai authorities would wake up and think about all the people they double vaxed with two doses of AZ, and now seem to be refusing to allow booster doses of even privately purchased Moderna any earlier than 6 months after the prior vaccine dose... even though the study above says two doses of AZ are basically worthless beyond 4 months out.

Here are the specific findings of the Swedish study regarding the vaccine effectiveness of the Pfizer, Moderna and AZ vaccines (two doses) in preventing symptomatic Covid infection over varying periods post full vaccination: 15-30 days (up to 1 month) after: Pfizer -- 92% Moderna -- 96% AZ -- 68% 61-120 days (up to 4 months) after: Pfizer -- 85% Moderna -- 85% AZ -- 41% 121-180 days (up to 6 months) after: Pfizer -- 47% Moderna -- 71% AZ -- no effectiveness However, the other detail I noticed in reading thru the full study is that while their sample size of Pfizer vaccinations was quite large, the comparable numbers for Moderna and AZ vaccinations were vastly smaller by comparison. But I didn't see any mention in the document on how/whether those disparities might impact the findings. https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Delivery.cfm/SSRN_ID3949410_code2488747.pdf?abstractid=3949410&mirid=1 The study did also include findings on vaccine effectiveness against COVID hospitalization and death, but only in aggregate form, and not breaking out those results by specific vaccines used. Though I'm guessing that data would be heavily influenced by the Pfizer vaccinations that make up the bulk of their study participants. Pretty good up to 6 months, but not so good after that.

It's an interesting study, and I look forward to seeing the final version of its findings... The effectiveness numbers you cite above from the study ONLY relate to effectiveness against symptomatic infection, whereas the study cited other better results/data for effectiveness against severe COVID and COVID death. You also didn't mention that the study abstract found that two doses of the Pfizer vaccine outperformed two doses of the AZ vaccine in terms of preventing symptomatic infection, with the study finding AZ had no effectiveness for that beyond 4 months. But the one other caveat listed on that website that you didn't mention: "These preprints are early stage research papers that have not been peer-reviewed. The findings should not be used for clinical or public health decision making and should not be presented to a lay audience without highlighting that they are preliminary and have not been peer-reviewed."