Dakling

Nice UTube review though it should have been edited down to about 1/2 the length. Basically confirms what others have said. It isn't a super sport and it is more than reasonable to expect the bike to be heavier and to feel heavier than the 300. The things that make it easy to ride on longer rides such as ergonomics and steering geometry are the same things that prevent it from being a "pure sports" bike. Nice to hear that a 5'3" rider didn't find it too tall. They weren't really pushing the bikes that hard and the suspension might start showing its faults if they did though I have seen other reviews with track time where they said the suspension was competent though uninspiring. At 200 lbs I would definitely be maxing out the rear shock preload and putting in new springs and likely heavier oil up front.

My biggest concern about the bike from the review is that he commented that while the brakes were linear that they needed an above average effort. Can always upgrade the pads but if that doesn't do it full caliper replacement would be a bit pricey unless you could find something of a wrecked super sport that would fit. Probably very difficult to add a second disk without replacing the front wheel and the entire front brake system and maybe the forks. Too expensive to be worth it.

Con rod length has no impact on stroke. Stroke is dependent on the crank shaft. Changing con rod length only affects the distance between piston and crank. Crank dimensions alone dictate stroke.

Issue regarding cylinder sleeve length when adding stroke is legitimate though usually is not an issue. The real problem is will the stock 250 crank case accept a 300 crank without work. When you increase stroke the crank "throw" increased. Throw is normally not an issue in the direction of the cylinder but it can big a big issue it the crank comes too close to the bottom of the crank case when it is at bottom dead center.

Ok another re-edit because I am not yet sure if folks get the whole stroking thing. If you increase stroke (via the crank), you must have shorter con rods equal to 1/2 the stroke increase or "top dead center" will be too high and your piston will hit the valves or the head. The head will stay in the same place and the crank center of rotation will stay the same the only change is that the crank "throw" will be different. The shorter rod keeps the piston top dead center in the same spot but the bottom of the cycle will be where the added stroke comes in. Usually when you stroke out an engine the pistons still stay well within the cylinder and there is no issue about the cylinder length. You may need to use a piston with a shorter skirt but normally the cylinder is long enough that you don't need to. You definitely will need to re-hone the cylinder if you decide to stroke it since with the shorter stroke crank the lower section of the cylinder would have been below the rings and now it wont be. If you are trying to stroke beyond what the normal cylinders dimensions will allow, you will end up with lots of problems because going with longer cylinders increases the over all engine dimensions and now you might have clearance issues.

I haven't tried to price them in Thailand but there is a full kit available for the 250 in the US for $375 (about 14,000 baht).

Does anyone know off the top of their head if there are any significant changes to the frame or suspension on the CBR300 vs the CBR250 or is it basically just a stroked engine and different cosmetically?

I am seeing on some sites that guys are putting big bore kits on CBR250s that take them up to 305 cc. Some are also planning on trying to fit the crank from a CBR300 into the bored out 250 which would take displacement up to 350cc. All this could be done for a bit over $500 using kits and an OEM crank from a CBR300. Likely need to get a aftermarket ECU tuner to get everything working together properly but it would be an interesting project. If the crank replacement turns out to be problematic you would still have the bore kit taking you to 305cc vs the CBR300 true displacement of 286 cc.

I am thinking if you bought a somewhat tired CBR250 for 70,000 and put 30,000 into it you would have a pretty nice bike. Granted it might be less reliable than a new stock CBR300 but you would save 35,000 baht and end up with a more powerful bike. I do realize that you would get a lot less resale for an older, modded CBR250 than a newer stock CBR300 so if you think of full life cost the CBR300 would be the better option financially.

Another option would be to buy the CBR300 and after a year or two put the big bore kit on it. Cost more up front but if you only planned on keeping the bike for 3 to 5 years then you would get more on the resale. With a 22% increase in displacement you could see the stock 300 going from 30 to 33 or maybe as much as 35 hp if you do the ECU work and help it to breath a bit.

I know that after putting in the kit on a new CBR300, ecu remapping etc. I am getting close to CB500 prices but this might be a fun project. Thoughts anyone?

Good topic, some good info here. My 2 cents are that in non-track conditions you should always have enough lean angle in reserve to handle a DR curve without too much drama. The worst ones that I have ever had to deal with are the ones where you have a long sweeping high speed curve that near the end turns into a low speed tight DR curve. In those cases you need to scrub off speed before you get out of the high speed sweeper or you wont make the DR tight curve. The idea of simply staying on the throttle and correcting your line wont work if you are coming in too hot.

The other curves that are difficult to judge and execute properly are the curves that have a rise or depression in them, or if they are improperly banked. Likely the corkscrew at Laguna Seca is the most (in)famous example of this but when riding in the mountains it is common to have curves that do any or all of the following, decrease in radius, change grade, and/or change banking. It is near impossible to read a complicated curve correctly the first time over it and that's why riding at well below your limit is key on real roads. Never get too eager on the open road if you are not familiar with the stretch you are on and even then don't get too crazy. I think you are playing Russian roulette if you enter any curve aggressively in Thailand where you can't fully see the exit BEFORE you enter the curve.

Track days will increase your skill level (especially if it is part of a training program), but at the end of the day on the road your judgement and attitude count for more than pure skill. There are no concrete power poles on the edge of the track as there are on most roads in Thailand. not only that even if you do make it through the curve but you drift wide and run some other people off the road you are being irresponsible. If you can't make the curve without drifting out of your lane you are going too fast for the curve and/or your abilities.

I am actually about 5'8 but I only have a 28" inseam. Basically I have the typical no neck, knuckle-dragger build. I think the Vstrom might be a bit too tall for me. I am not a big fan of the lowering kits as they change the geometry. I suppose I could lower the forks in the triple clamp to offset that but I just don't want to mess around that much. One good thing about having the build of an ape is I never complain about the pegs being too high and the bars are not as much of a stretch.

I am thinking the cb500f might be a better choice for me ergonomically but I am worried that it just might not have enough fun factor. Maybe the CB650f or whatever the naked 650 4cyl is called would be better but I think its seat is a bit higher than the cb500f. But as Briggsy says seat heright is only one factor the seats shape makes a big difference too. If it narrows up enough near the tank I am usually ok.

Good review, 2 quick questions if you don't mind. How tall are you and how do you find the seat height on the V-Strom? I am thinking of getting a new bike but I am vertically challenged.

I like your review in that it shows how bikes that are similar on paper don't always feel that similar when ridden. I used to have a VFR800fi and while it was a pretty heavy bike (and some folks rated it poorly because of that), it never felt heavy unless I was at very low speeds.

Funny points made by many some similar to my approach some not so much.

Generally I never wai first unless I am in a formal setting with people who are older than me (or a monk or something like that), I also will sometimes wai when I am meeting an older relative of my wife's but only if I haven't seen them in a long time.

I always try to return a wai unless it is from a child or someone in a service job (like the checkout lady at Tesco or a waitress). While I don't return a wai from a waitress or checkout person I do always nod and smile and acknowledge them somehow. I often will return a wai from a very small child as a way of helping them learn proper behavior (plus they are just so damn cute so why not wai). I also never return a wai from a farang instead I offer my hand for a shake.

I have never had a problem with a Thai being offended over my "wai etiquette", they generally don't expect us to know the nuances. I often find it funny when I see a Thai trying to decide whether they should great me with a wai or a handshake. Occasionally a Thai guy will offer to shake hands instead of wai-ing but I don't remember ever having a woman do so unless I was in a very western setting.

Anyway getting back to one of my quotes, why does a big bike rider feel the need to blast past a slower rider on a bend?

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Provided he gave you lots of room and was driving to what he felt were acceptable speeds for the situation I guess I don't see anything wrong with it. Just because someone else is going faster than you it doesn't make them wrong.

I often overtake people at rates of speed significantly higher than the speed at which they are travelling. It don't feel there is anything wrong with this provided I am not crowding them. I have stopped undertaking on the shoulder at high speed though as I find that can often startle the unaware cage rider who hasn't been watching their mirrors. Did it once back in Canada and the guy in the car swerved towards the oncoming traffic and could have had an accident. Clearly my bad on that one.

I'm interested to know, why does a bike lose traction like that all of a sudden, was he leaning over too far for the speed he was going? could it have been treadles tires? Was there sand or lose material on the road? or is it just one of those things that happens which can't be explained, glad the rider was okay!!

Does the wearing of all this gear make riders behave as if they are on a race track when in fact they are on public roads?

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Usually the bike doesn't lose traction all of a sudden as long as you don't go into a full skid. When you approach the limits of traction under proper conditions, the bike should start to very slightly start to drift out from under you and you end up going a bit wider than your intended line. You can usually feel it and sometimes hear the tires whining a bit. While I did ride to my limits on near deserted public roads in Canada when I was younger, I certainly don't recommend it. As far as doing it in Thailand I think you have to be near suicidal. Road surfaces are dodgy at best here and traffic is more than unpredictable. When you watch the pro's race most of their wipe-outs start slow as they begin to lose traction and then suddenly it speeds up and they tuck the front or lose the rear.

When folks lose control dramatically it is usually because you are jerky on the controls, or you if totally misjudge things and significantly exceed to limits of traction for even an instant you will lose grip dramatically and almost instantly. This is because once the tire starts to slide the contact patch transitions from static (not sliding) friction to dynamic (sliding) friction. Dynamic friction is much lower than static friction so once you transition to dynamic you feel like you have zero grip. If you have lots of run out room you can still save it but things get real tricky. This is pretty much why anti-lock breaks have shorter stopping distances.

The best riding gear in the world isn't going to help you out if it is in the closet. I would never bother with a full leather set in Thailand unless I was planning on getting a track bike and doing lots of track days. I also don't push it when on Thai roads as things are just too unpredictable here for my taste. I consider my riding style here has casually quick. Usually faster than prevailing traffic but never that close to my limits.

I prefer to wear a mesh jacket, jeans, gloves and boots when riding in Thailand. For me quality gloves and a full face helmet are the most important consideration. I prefer to wear proper boots and bring a change of shoes/flip flops with me as I like to have confident footing on the pegs and levers. I usually wont go for a fully armored boot though as I want to be able to fit the upper boot under a normal pair of jeans. Good gloves and boots also give me a bit better control on the bike as well as offering protection. It is human nature to put your hands out when you fall and hand injuries are incredibly painful and debilitating. So I usually go for the best gloves I can find though I am a bit less concerned about the gauntlet than I used to be. I don't like super short gloves but I don't need full on racing gauntlets that go half way to my elbow either. I think the biggest thing about gloves is that they wear quickly and must be repaired or replaced once the stitching starts to go or palms start to wear out.

Wearing jeans is a compromise because they really don't offer protection other than minor abrasion protection. I have found in my accidents that I have never hurt my knees or lower legs but my hips often take a beating and sliding on those pocket rivets sucks. I just haven't found anything I would actually wear on a regular basis other than jeans. If I am simply going out for a ride I might bother to put on some sort of light weight pants but I would never wear them if I was actually going somewhere to meet people.

As much as we all worry about the high-speed accident and the short stop provided by a concrete power pole, the reality is that most single vehicle accidents will continue to be low to mid speed low sides during everyday riding. Wearing your gear all the time is more important that having the best possible gear but rarely bothering to wear it. For me and my riding style I think comfortable gear that I will actually wear everyday is more important than trying to find the "safest gear". After all in the worst case scenario where you end up under a truck or something, all that fancy leather gear is gonna do is keep the bits together in one place so the road crew has an easier clean up job.

I just made a cheap version of that to park my truck under. I used the blue PVC plumbing pipes and fittings. Very easy to do and strong enough for a temporary structure. I used the sun screen stuff since I am unconcerned about rain but you could always use a waterproof tarp. Don't glue the joint's and you can use the pipe later in the build. Getting the local handy men to throw up a temporary frame of bamboo would also be very cheap.

Back to topic. My preferred list of mods on all my bikes are the following, in order.

1. Tires (unless the bike has really good ones on it).

2, Ergo related items as required (seat, windscreen, adjustable levers, bar risers, rearsets, etc)

3. Frame sliders, tank protector, etc.

4. Suspension and or brakes (if required)

5. Slip-on (for the weight, not the noise)

6. Full system and ecu re-mapping (but only if the bike is under-powered, a stock sports litre bike has more than enough power for me).

7. Brighter headlights.

8. Last and least important are appearance items like tail eliminator kits, tire tape, etc.

If I was doing up a specific purpose bike (like a touring bike or a track bike), my priorities would be a bit different.

My honda click is bone stock, only thing I ever change are tires and oil when required.

Fair enough, mods please feel free to delete this one.

Ok so I did more searching and found this was discussed before (about 2 months ago), but I still haven't found pricing yet. Anyone know?

I just found this going through the Yamaha Thailand website. I don't think I have ever seen any discussion of this bike on the forum and I definitely have never seen one in Thailand.

Is this a new bike for the Thai market or has it been available for awhile but just fell under the radar?

I can't seem to find Thai pricing on the bike, anyone know what this ride would set you back?

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/pdf/yamaha_YBR250.pdf

The one time that I find myself consciously counter steering is when I am trying to avoid a smallish pothole or something that I either noticed late or for some reason I don't want to go around it. Only works if you are going straightish, but sometimes will consciously push hard on the bars to get the bike to roll on its axis so the wheels miss the obstacle then reverse the counter steer to get back out of the lean without ever making a significant change in my line. In normal cornering I do it without even thinking.

I will say that some of what we have said about moving your body and technique really best applies to sport bikes. Standard bikes are pretty much the same but you can't be as aggressive. Crusers are a bit of a different kettle of fish, you still counter steer but you sure don't lean or move around as much.

I have my inside foot with the sole of the foot actually vertical to the bike and touching the frame with the toe on the peg. This also allows for more flexibility in the hips to spread your legs and get your knee on the mac.

Something many riders don't appreciate is the need to keep your head vertical while in a fast turn and look as far around the bend as is possible. I see so many casual riders going fast round a bend looking 1 yard in front of their front wheel - scary!

I do something very similar with my inside foot though like I said now that I don't do track days or anything I don't actually get over and hang off the bike unless I screwed up somehow on entry and completely misjudged the curve.

I also never go into a curve aggressively on the street unless I can see the exit. This includes roads I am familiar with. Too many unexpected obstacles here. I agree 100% on keeping your head as level as possible as it helps with vision and balance, also your comment on looking ahead is brilliant. I look for the exit of the corner than pick what I think to be the best line and then kinda split my attention between apex and exit, difficult to explain exactly but it works for me. Also part of why I slow down allot at night, way too easy to overdrive your headlights on a bike.

Not exactly on topic, but worth mentioning is Target fixation. I think the biggest and most important riding technique/concept to master for the normal rider is target fixation. You will generally go where you look so if you stare at that dog or pothole that unexpectedly appeared you will hit it. Try to look for the safe path you want/need to follow and keep your eyes on it.

Ahhh crap hate my connection thought my previous post was lost so I rewrote it as this post. Now it doesn't make too much sense as some is repeated. Oh well... hope you can follow it.

Good post. Interesting about your outside foot - when I race I found that I can get better control if I put my outside heel on the peg and point my toes out at nearly 90 degrees. This allows my legs/hips to better spread (for weight shift) and get your inside knee down. I also keep medium weight on the outside foot and just by increasing or decreasing the weight, the weight/body shift allows that reserve lean angle to kick in or a decreased lean angle as necessary. Counter steering on/off also comes into play, but the on/off weight also helps the counter steer to be effective.

I have my inside foot with the sole of the foot actually vertical to the bike and touching the frame with the toe on the peg. This also allows for more flexibility in the hips to spread your legs and get your knee on the mac. Helps to have GP shifting as with the foot on top of the peg it' easy to stamp on the shifter to change up as you exit the bend.

I guess we all find our different little tricks that we're comfortable with. Something many riders don't appreciate is the need to keep your head vertical while in a fast turn and look as far around the bend as is possible. I see so many casual riders going fast round a bend looking 1 yard in front of their front wheel - scary!

I would always keep my outside foot pretty much inline with the frame of the bike, maybe pointed out a bit but I would keep the peg under the part of my foot just behind my toes (the ball of the foot). That way I felt most ready to move around as required.

I would do something similar to what you describe with my inside foot, Normally I had my heel up in the air on the rearset guard area with my toes on the peg pointed into the corner. The only problem with this was it would make my knee stick way out and I would have to tuck it in at high lean angles.

As I said though I am too old and fat to do any of this stuff these days though. I ride quickly but safely now when I am riding, (though I don't have a bike right now). I never go into a corner hard anymore unless I can see the exit before entering and I don't find many like that in Thailand. I also find cornering is becoming a bit of a lost art (or at least a different art) as modern high power bikes are often faster if you go in a bit slow with a tight entry and wide exit so you can get back on the throttle early. My last "real" sport bike was a CBR954, cornering on it was very different from the old VFR500 that I learned on. With the VFR maintaining corner speed throughout was more critical because you didn't have that incredible power on exit.

Good topic I almost started it myself a few weeks ago......

While walking on the sidewalk at Patong beach with my 3 year old son,

He was almost hit by one of many motor bikes driven on the sidewalk there happens all the time,

beating the one way traffic.

I jumped between him and the bike almost took us both out.

I cursed at the Big Eassan Buff woman driving the bike (sure she not know what I say)

and she just continued on her way as if nothing happened.

Land of smiles my asssss.

So your in the south of Thailand and you assumed she was from Issan because she was a poor driver?

Seems an odd mental jump to me unless you knew her or heard her speak or are perhaps picking up some of the prejudices of our local hosts.

I am pretty sure there are some non-Issan Thais riding motorbikes on sidewalks.

gsxrnz, great post. what I was trying to explain with mine put you said it better. I must been typing my post when you posted as I didn't see yours first, (otherwise I wouldn't have bothered).

Not sure if the complexity of a turbo is worth it since the modern litre bikes are already making ridiculous power

Gives you the best of both worlds. Light chassis for the twistys, litre bike power for the straights.

At little more cost than a middleweight.

Supersport litre bikes weigh little more than a 600 or 750 supersport anyhow. I ain't trying to shit on the turbos as I like the idea in general I am just not sure I see the application. Obviously putting a turbo on a ZX14 would make an insane drag bike (with extended swing arm and all that), just not sure if I would buy one on a street bike.

R1 dry weight approx 175kg, R6 dry weight approx 165kg. Not saying 10kg is nothing but ........

Gotta try get away from the big buyers. Do lower quantities with more variety and try to sell at local markets perhaps.