rethaired

I apologize for not having followed and responded to the comments made about how the poll was done. I have been unexpectedly busy.

After reading all the comments, I realize now that there were indeed flaws in the poll. It was not meant to be a PhD thesis mind you, but ... I apologize for not including more religions and forgetting some. This was not intentional. I am not a religious expert. I tried to do my best to enlighten people as to what the religious composition of the population of Chiang Mai was. This was something that I wanted to find out. I did not include Hinduism, Sikhism, Judaism ... because I did not see them as major religions in Chiang Mai from my experience. In retrospect, I would have had room to include all of these and I should have. Mea culpa! I did include atheism to include people who do not believe in religion to see what was the ratio of believers of any faith or religion to non-believers. To me, non-religious and atheist are synonymous. Maybe the title (What is your religion?) was not well chosen. I think that I might have been able to find a better title had I had more time to think about this. Perhaps the people who were so critical could offer an alternative? And, as far as agnosticism, I did not include a non-practising option because there are no churches (that I know of) for agnostics (as I believe that agnostics believe in some entity or energy as a sort of God). I was not aware that there are agnostics that see themselves as practising or not-praticising. As far as the issue of the second section (If buddhists,...), I was not aware that one had to vote in every single category. So, again sorry!

I understand that many people had a say about the poll or the topic (and some on a deeper level that I intended). I thank the people who showed some sensitivity when dealing with how the post was put together and about people's beliefs. However, I would like to say that I was astounded by the utter negativity (dare I say rudeness) of a few people. ASTOUNDED! May I suggest that next time these people post a negative or critical comment about what a poster as done, these people learn to start by --at the very least-- (like you were hopefully told when you were a kid) expressing thanks and gratitude to whoever had the initiative to do something for you. BTW, a prerequisite for posting a negative comment on a post should be to have written one in the first place? I find it surprising that none of those negative people had the time to reproduce and (hopefully) better my effort (which is not difficult once it is done in the first place, mind you). I understand a few people thought that this was a futile effort. Many people thought this exercise was worthwhile, judging by the responses. Anyway, I challenge those very negative people to put their energy and superior intellect in constructing instead of destroying, and why not, write another poll on the same subject to get those numbers right ... if that is indeed important. I wonder how many people are intimidated by these people and how much better TV would be if people were to be more grateful and positive. May I suggest to those few people some light reading around the area of empathetic responses and conflict resolution!

In all fairness though this poll and the comments that it generated proved a universal truth ... that perfection is hard to attain. Errare humanum est!

PS: BTW, it was clearly stated that this poll was for Chiang Mai. I noticed that it was moved part way.

Thank you so much for your replies. It gives me the impetus to go ahead with this. I am investigating other options as well. Thank you for those other options. I will endeavour to provide some feedback on how this is going to help others in the same predicament.

I have been able to find a few posts on the subjects in this forum (with 2 people admitting that they have had success), but I am not too sure if it works in Chiang Mai all the time. I am pretty sure that in BKK there should not be any issues, but out here, it might be a different story. I am looking to be sending money to someone's email who then would redeem the money by depositing it in a bank account. Has someone been successful with this? Which bank? Is there any thing I should be mindful of?

PS: I don't think the exchange rate used by Paypal right now is as much of an issue as when there was a big difference between off-shore rates and inbound rates. I do not like to use SWIFT as they charge an arm and 2 legs for it!

Thank you for your help.

Silly parameters. Please define practising.Praying several times to God daily yet not attending a church count? You are in over your head

I did define practising as attending churchor a religious place, but sure praying more than once a week would make you practising, naturally! That was understood!

I would like to know more about the religious make-up of the foreigners in Chiang Mai.

PS: Practising (one or more in one week)

Again and again, the KEY word is Illegal ....

Breaking the law, to gain benefits cannot be condoned to any extent.

Those of us here in CM, who are here as legal , working expats know the extent we have to go thru to stay. Yes its a hassel and troublesome but we live by the law of the land. We want the goodness and satisfaction [to ourselves] we get from living here, we live by the Thai laws.

You violate the law and you will deported, and I believe at your own or your friends or family expense.

I see no problem with the program here. In the US catch the illegals, put them in a secured camp and on a publics work program til they build up enough funds to get them a one way ticket home.

Laws are arbitrary and not intrinsically good!

In many countries (incl. the US and Thailand) illegal migrants are USED for cheap labour. I wonder ... does the Thai or the US employer using illegal migrants (who is breaking the law) ... does s/he get in jail? I doubt it! The Burmese used are slaves and it makes me sick to the stomach to live in one of those buildings that were built by them for nothing and benefitting Thai employers, foreigners, and Thai society. Considering the living conditions in Burma, this is real shame!

I have seen them, risking their lives! I have seen them arrested! This Burmese men are extremely courageous!

Really sad!

t seems to me that the government should be providing incentives and enacting laws to slowly but surely have people use cleaner motorcycles, tuk tuks, etc. For one thing, they could raise the minimum wage and give incentives for people to buy cleaner fuel/transportation. Speaking of which, a cleaner public transportation system (ie: tuk tuks, since I have yet to have taken the official public buses, for obvious reasons) would be a good step! Can we change the colors of those buses to something a bit more conspicuous for a start or buy more of those buses/retrofit tuk tuks with cleaner technology (bigger or smaller buses as the need demands it). And this little invention could persuade a few, poor Thai folks burning plastic (if given a few satangs) that they should give it away to a government or farang joint-venture (http://cornucopierre.blogspot.com/2008/01/plastic2petrol-cheaply.html#links)

I am generously giving the first satang!

And this is, folks, my 2 satangs worth on this matter!

So, you owe me 1!

It seems to me that the government should be providing incentives and enacting laws to slowly but surely have people use cleaner motorcycles, tuk tuks, etc. For one thing, they could raise the minimum wage and give incentives for people to buy cleaner fuel/transportation. Speaking of which, a cleaner public transportation system (ie: tuk tuks, since I have yet to have taken the official public buses, for obvious reasons) would be a good step! Can we change the colors of those buses to something a bit more conspicuous for a start or buy more of those buses/retrofit tuk tuks with cleaner technology (bigger or smaller buses as the need demands it). And this little invention could persuade a few, poor Thai folks burning plastic (if given a few satangs) that they should give it away to a government or farang joint-venture (http://cornucopierre.blogspot.com/2008/01/plastic2petrol-cheaply.html#links)

I am generously giving the first satang!

And this is, folks, my 2 satangs in the matter!

2 + 1! Jeesh! I better start saving!

There's a large demand for old urine. It's being recycled into the new bio-diesel. Sounds like the cops have figured out a way to obtain unlimited supplies.

Very funny!

Careful now!

It might not be for bio-diesel!

It has the same colour of beer!

i believe that you can pay a small amount to have the offending number blocked. i suspect she is getting the number from the soon-to-be-ex-husband, so tell her to not give it to him. sounds like a prick anyway, so no reason to give it to him unless there are kids involved.

A prick? Funny you did not characterize the GF as being a bitch?

And it is of course the husband's fault because he leaves her? He was broke. Why? Maybe he did not feel like apologizing? Maybe he did not need to? Maybe she gambled the couple's money? Maybe she had an affair? We need more information to condemn a person on hypothetical, bias, and flimsy circumstancial evidence such as the ones that were given. LAW 101.

The problems require changes that the elites simply are unwilling to make.

BINGO! When one was born with a silver spoon up you know where, it is hard to use chop sticks!

I am not too sure where buddhism comes into play here, but it would seem that this was either not driven into their heads (that they were born priviledged and that they should do something worthy to repay society) or it is not part of buddhism. If the latter, simple morality should be taught to them. However, I fear it will take a lot of work to change that caste-like mentality! Just look at the soap operas on Thai TV where the whitish elite living in palaces and don't do a thing, but cry all day! (Not that this is much different than in North America, mind you!) So, does buddhism teach anything that could change the mentality? If so, why is it not working?

I agree completely with you that reducing class size, etc. is essential, but I wonder if the Thai teachers who represent the elite (right?) want to change things?

I believe you should read my post and read it again and stop bullying this person! He has his opinion! You may disagree! I am not too sure what is your goal by belittling him. Do you think you are helping the matter or forcing him to dislike your kind even more? Sounds like you are trying to pick a fight! Who is the most sophisiticated in the bunch now?

I think 'we' are.

The reactions you are talking about are perfectly normal when confronted by uncivilized muslim morons who think a daughter should be punished simply for having a boyfriend.

---------------------

Thank You...

There are two ways to handle such a situation:

1) react (maim, get maimed, maim innocent bystanders, kill, kill youself, kill innocent victims and as infinitum, until the last men drops) or

2) think of the consequences of a visceral, primitive, emotional reaction and then react appropriately, avoiding as many casualties as possible over a century or more.

YOU prefer #1! So, I guess hitting someone is perfectly acceptable. What would you do if you were to find out that your GF had strayed. Bit her up?

Anyway, I am sorry you feel this is the right way of handling such a situation.

Let's agree to disagree (unless of course you want to step outside).

Have you ever seen the movie "To Kill a Mockingbird" ?

This video might give you another perspective on what some Muslims are like. Not all, mind you! But, then, all cultures and races have exemplary individuals, but not all are exemplary!

1. If the bf came from an influential Thai family.

2. If the bf came from an uninfluential Thai family.

3. If the bf's parents were expat farangs.

perhaps your answer would be the same for each, or perhaps not.

The bf in question is 18 years old. Your daughter is also 18 years old. Assume your daughter had a black eye and bloody lip.

Then I would get severely punish the boy.

Then I would punish the daughter for bringing shame to the family by having a boyfriend.

-----------------------

So what punishment do you have in mind my Muslim brother?

I believe you should read my post and read it again and stop bullying this person! He has his opinion! You may disagree! I am not too sure what is your goal by belittling him. Do you think you are helping the matter or forcing him to dislike your kind even more? Sounds like you are trying to pick a fight! Who is the most sophisiticated in the bunch now?

1. If the bf came from an influential Thai family.

2. If the bf came from an uninfluential Thai family.

3. If the bf's parents were expat farangs.

perhaps your answer would be the same for each, or perhaps not.

The bf in question is 18 years old. Your daughter is also 18 years old. Assume your daughter had a black eye and bloody lip.

Then I would get severely punish the boy.

Then I would punish the daughter for bringing shame to the family by having a boyfriend.

How would you punish your own daughter for being hit by her bf?

-----------------------

How about some thing like this?

The first true account ever published by a victim of an "honor crime," Souad's testimony is a shocking, moving, and harrowing story of cruelty…and incomparable courage.

BURNED ALIVE

When Souad was seventeen she fell in love. In her Palestinian village, as in so many other villages, sex before marriage is considered a grave dishonor to one's family and is punishable by death. This was her crime. Her brother-in-law was given the task of meting out her punishment. One morning while Souad was washing the family's clothes, he poured gasoline over her and set her on fire.

In the eyes of their community he was a hero. An execution for a "crime of honor" is a duty, and Souad's brother-in-law had the full support of her parents.

Miraculously, she survived, rescued by women of her village, who put out the flames and took her to a local hospital. Horribly burned over ninety percent of her body and still denounced by her family-who strived to "finish the job" even as she lay suffering in the clinic-Souad was able to receive the care she needed only after the intervention of a European aid worker. Now in permanent exile from her homeland, she has decided to tell her story and reveal the barbarity of a practice that continues to this day.

More than five thousand honor killings are reported every year; many more go unreported. BURNED ALIVE is both the dramatic, heartbreaking, and inspiring testimony of one young woman's resolve to survive and build a new life-and a call to action to end a heinous tradition.

I Was in Flames

I am a girl. A girl must walk fast, head down, as if counting the number of steps she's taking. She may never stray from her path or look up, for if a man were to catch her eye, the whole village would label her a charmuta. If a married neighbor woman, or an old woman, or just anybody were to see her out without her mother or her older sister, without her sheep, her bundle of hay, or her load of figs, they would right away say charmuta. A girl must be married before she can raise her eyes and look straight ahead, or go into a shop, or pluck her eyebrows and wear jewelry. My mother was married at fourteen. If a girl is still unmarried by that age, the village begins to make fun of her. But a girl must wait her turn in the family to be married. The oldest daughter first, then the others.

There are too many girls in my father's house, four of marrying age. There are also two half sisters, born of our father's second wife, who are still children. The one male child of the family, the son who is adored by all, is our brother Assad, who was born in glory among all these daughters. He is the fourth born. I am the third. Adnan, my father, is not happy with my mother, Leila, for giving him all these girls. He is unhappy, too, with his other wife, 1.Aicha, who also has given him nothing but girls. Noura, the oldest daughter, was married late when I myself was about fifteen. Nobody has yet asked for Kainat, the second girl, who is about a year older than me. I did overhear that a man spoke to my father about me, but he was told that I must wait for Kainat's marriage before I can marry. But Kainat may not be pretty enough, and is probably too slow at her work. I'm not really sure why she hasn't been asked for, but if she stays unmarried, she'll be the butt of the village jokes, and so will I.

It is a curse in my village to be born a girl. I have no memory of having played games or having fun as a child. The only freedom a girl can dream about is marriage, leaving your father's house for your husband's and not coming back, even if you're beaten. It is considered shameful for a married daughter to return home because she is not supposed to ask for protection outside her husband's house. If she does return to her father's house, it is her family's duty to bring her back to her husband. My sister was beaten by her husband and she brought shame on our family when she came back home to complain.

She is lucky to have a husband, though. I dream about it. Ever since I heard that a man spoke to my father about me, I have been consumed by impatience and curiosity. I know he lives three or four steps from us. Sometimes I can catch sight of him from the upper terrace where I lay the laundry out to dry. He must have a good job in the city because he never dresses like a laborer. He always wears a suit, carries a briefcase, and has a car. I'd like to see his face close up but I'm afraid the family will catch me spying. So when I go to get hay for a sick sheep in the stable, I walk fast hoping to see him nearby. But he parks his car too far away. From watching, I know about what time he comes out to go to work. So at seven o'clock in the morning, I pretend to be folding the laundry on the terrace or looking for a ripe fig or shaking out the carpets to get a glimpse of him driving off in his car. I have to be quick so I won't be noticed. What I do is climb the stairs and pass through the rooms to get to the terrace. There I energetically shake a rug and look over the cement wall, just slightly glancing to the right. If somebody notices me from afar, they won't guess that I'm looking down at the street.

When I see him, I realize I am in love with this man and this car! I imagine many things on the terrace: I am married to him and, like today, I watch the car go off into the distance until I can't see it anymore. But he'll come back from work at sunset and I will remove his shoes, and on my knees I will wash his feet as my mother does for my father. I will bring him his tea, and I'll watch him smoke his long pipe, seated like a king in front of the door of his house. I will be a woman who has a husband!

And maybe I'll even be able to put on makeup, get into this car with my husband, and even go into town and into the shops. I will endure the worst for the simple freedom of being able to go through this doorway to go out and buy bread! But I will not ever be a charmuta. I will not look at other men. I will continue to walk fast, erect and proud, but will not watch my steps with lowered eyes, and the village will not be able to say bad things about me, because I will be a married woman.

It is from this very terrace that my terrible story began. I was already older than my older sister was on the day of her wedding. I must have been eighteen, or maybe more, I don't know, and I both hoped and I despaired. My memory went up in smoke the day the flames engulfed me, but I have tried to reconstruct what happened.

Yes! Indeed! Very sad story!

I am stupefied everytime I must read or hear such a story!

What to do about the people who commit such a crime? Although, to be fair, if we are going to judge them, we should understand that we are comparing their culture and ours (Western cultures)! I think it is rather unfair to do so since their culture has not been evolving at the same pace than ours! What were we like 100 years ago? 500 years ago? Does anyone remember how black Americans were treated? How Algerians, East Indians, Congolese, American Indians,... were treated? And what about the Inquisition?

And, BTW, seeing how well things are going in the West, males are well on their way of getting a similar treatment, redefining the expression "what goes around, comes around"! Let's hope not, though! Times have changed! Times are changing, but so slowly!

All of these issues are covered at the Chiang Mai Computer Club

Not sure if there would be demand on a one to one basis

Oops! Looks like I will be visiting the club soon!

1) What are (if any) the needs of expats in terms of setting up computers, networks, software, or troubleshooting problems?

2) How many people would be interested in computer courses delivered in English?

3) Are there any specific needs: specific programs or areas?

4) How to use or better use:

a) Outlook express

Anti-virus and anti-spyware management

c) Browser management

d) Feeds

e) Websites creation tools (authoring)

f) Picture management

g) Blogging

h) Video management

i) Spreadsheet programs

j) Database programs

h) Programming

Thanks PB for sharing this story! Refreshing!

May all people and all nations learn from this ... that indeed human beings sometimes err! Especially the younger and the immature types!

One question though (which I think you did not answer): what led him to punch her? Maybe he found out that it was not his or maybe she lied about being protected! Not that this would excuse his actions, of course, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances and sometimes some people have not reached this level of control or have that in them! We are not all ... born equal! Right?

Great story, PB!

Thanks for making my day!

There is hope!

Peace!

He never denied it was his baby; he had insisted they not use contraceptives because he was Catholic! Now they have both converted to Mennonite. They were under incredible strain at the time, finishing secondary school and trying to get scholarships (she got full scholarship to the most expensive school in Texas). It was totally out of character for him, and he truly repented. My second girl also came up preggers, and we did the same thing (although they were both academic underachievers). Each of those two girls has now had three babies, happily married, on good terms with all the parents, etc.

Thanks for clarifying!

Right! He was a Catholic. I did not know that all Catholics still follow the rule that one should not use contraception.

While I am sure that you have no reason to doubt you daugther's words or actions and while he did not deny it was his, it is still could be someone else's baby. I doubt very much that it would have been "wise" for him to even raise the topic after beating up your daughter. The scenario I am painting is IMHO not beyond the realm of possibilities as we know that a number of men raise illegitimate children: http://www.divorcereform.org/ill.html. Granted, it does not seem to be the case here!

Although I do have great respect for pacifism, I believe that --like all ideologies-- if pushed to its extreme, it is flawed. Flawed in the sense that one has to sometimes use other means to get a person to stop violence, be it psychological or physical. If my life is threatened or someone else's, then, it would follow that I would have the right to use force. As you have pointed before, you made a deal with him, giving him the benefit of the doubt and should he "reoffend", you stated that you would not be so lenient next time. Laying charges would have been my next move.

Cheers!

Unlike most of the posters here,

a. It actually happened. My daughter was 18 and about six months pregnant with their first child, about to graduate from high school, very much in love, and confused. He punched her in the lower abdomen, hard.

b. We are Christians, nonviolent, pacifist, peace-makers, and I taught her to love the enemy. If I had not passed this test, I would have had a miserable relationship with my son-in-law forever.

My wife called me at work, and I immediately left work after calling the work place of the boy's father, leaving word that he had a family emergency of the highest priority and must go home at once.

I went home, put my daughter on the back of my Yamaha 550, and we went to the boyfriend's house, where his grief-stricken parents met us in the living room with a very repentant, remorseful young man.

We talked at length, with the father making it clear that he had never taught the boy to hit a woman, and the boy promised to never do it again. We decided to trust him. He never hit her again (the deal was he would not get a second forgiveness if he hit her again). He has spent the last 24 years at home, taking care of the three children, cooking and cleaning (his family is Mexican-American and he's a real man).

Oh, and back to the day we discovered she was pregnant. National Honor Society officer, straight A student, etc. Her boyfriend came rushing into the hospital (he knew she was pregnant, and an abortion or adoption was out of the question). When I entered the hospital room and he saw me, he was afraid I would harm him, seriously. I said, "I forgive you, and I love you." We hugged and when we had the later conversation about hitting my daughter, he knew I did not hate him.

Hate kills. Love saves. I prefer loving my enemies. You really should try it. Love works.

Thanks PB for sharing this story! Refreshing!

May all people and all nations learn from this ... that indeed human beings sometimes err! Especially the younger and the immature types!

One question though (which I think you did not answer): what led him to punch her? Maybe he found out that it was not his or maybe she lied about being protected! Not that this would excuse his actions, of course, but sometimes there are extenuating circumstances and sometimes some people have not reached this level of control or have that in them! We are not all ... born equal! Right?

Great story, PB!

Thanks for making my day!

There is hope!

Peace!

Prem, I requested the certifications that their foreign teachers held, only to be told that many were not certified, but essentially college graduates (Education majors) with little to no real teaching experience in their home countries.

Bob,

Could you please let us know when you got this info about Prem teachers not being certified? Was it this year or how many years ago?

Thanks very much.

I'm not Bob - don't even have an uncle named Bob, but may have something of interest to share.

Last March I attended an international schools language conference in Bangkok. Got talking to a couple of teachers from Prem and they themselves mentioned that many of the teachers at Prem are there doing their teaching practicum for uni. There are a handful of very experienced and well-qualified teachers, but many of the teachers are young and in their last year of their education degrees. Not that this makes them unfit to teach - it's just not what Prem advertises...

As for NIS - while the location is great and the facilities are nice and shiny new and the teachers are certainly qualified and capable, the resources available to teachers are lacking (to say the least) - there is no professional development offered, the library is pitiful, and teaching materials are basic. The teachers do a fantastic job with what they've got available to them, but I firmly believe that NIS is a business for the owners who know very little about education.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

TT

As a teacher with 20 more years of service abroad with a post-graduate degree in the use of computers in schools, I would gladly take a few students with education majors at the elementary school level as part of a staff. Of course, there are exceptions! IMO, younger teachers should be more in touch with recent pedagogical methods of teaching (versus the more traditional pedagogy) and should have more energy. On the other hand, more experienced teachers could show them the tricks of the trade! Ying and yang!

However, the lack of material resources is, however, a bit of a concern, not only for parents and children, but also for teachers, I assure you! How good is a doctor without a scalpel? On the other hand, it depends what materials they have. Fancy books and newer computers are useless if no one can use them properly! Hands-on material and engaging pedagogy are what it is at nowadays, but there are no magic bullets in education as students tend to learn differently.

Too bad the world is run by greedy owners who probably got an excellent education thanks to their parents' greed and the teachers (and resources) the school had at its disposition!!!

I pay about 300,000 baht a year for my child's primary school education and don't begrudge one satang of it. [...]

I really don't think it's so much that you get what you pay for as selecting a school that meets the criteria you need. We were lucky that the only school in town that teaches in the language of our choice happens to be extremely good. It's much more difficult if you're choosing English or Thai as the options are so much wider. It's a shame we can't name schools here as it would be useful for parents to gauge the experience of others.

If you don't begrudge one satang, do you begrudge the rest or 299,999,999 satangs?

300,000 Bahts is not exactly pocket money in Thailand and one would expect that you would get good or excellent teaching, which includes teaching children who struggle or who need to be phased in, as in the case of your child. But, you are right! It looks like you were lucky!

As for the naming of school bit, does TV have any schools as sponsors?

> Does this work if you work overseas?

I do in fact work for an overseas employer (I telecommute), but have my salary transferred directly into my Thai bank account (have been doing so for >3 years now), which the bank was really happy to see. See below..

> What if I have a collateral piece of property (overseas)?

They are not at all interested in my assets abroad, nor my money abroad - all they care about is what I can show here in Thailand. Note that they're also not at all interested in anything other than Thai property as collatoral (i.e. cars etc mean nothing).

> What do you think of the Bangkok Bank terms I posted?

Definitely different to the story I was given, but that's not surprising either.. TiT afterall Sounds a lot more reasonable than it used to be.. It's all about what works for you in the end I guess.

Thanks for the comprehensive explanation!

It makes sense that the bank would only be interested in what they can grab should anything happen, but I am surprised that a car would not be very useful, given how much of a good investment it seems to be in LOS whereas in North America, a car depreciates in an irrational manner the moment you sign the contract. I guess this leaves me with not too many choises should I want/need some collateral, a condo being an obvious item.

As far as ensuring that the information given is legitimate, I agree that can be a problem in LOS. After a few issues of the s/he-says-s/he-says type, I quickly realized that I had to change my strategy. I print everything now or ask for a print out and I look for info on the net that can be printed. Email correspondance was useful whenever there were discrepancies. I have also used my camera to take pictures of the rooms I was staying in to foil any attempt to make me pay for damages that I did not make in the first place.

I would be happy to receive the maximum terms that the Bangkok Bank offers as they seem reasonable and as I do not like to use subterfuges to protect myself, especially in a foreign country. I agree that they are trying to make things a bit more palatable now, although not being able to own any land is still strange. On the other hand, if they did not have this provision, wouldn't the prices of houses go through the roof, gobbled up by foreign investing outfits (like it seems to be the case for condos)? And how would the average Thai fair?

Could I please know what are the fees that your Thai bank charges for the salary being deposited in your bank account?

At 33 (assume that's you), I assume you are confident of your ability to live in Thailand long term? (married to a Thai is not a water-tight reason to get a year-round visa - though it usually works).

Don;t get me wrong, I'd like to own a place here. I'm just not prepared to jump through all the hoops, take out an 8 years mortgage with 70,000 Baht per month payments only to find out a year or two later I can't get a new job to cover the payments..Of corse if you're rich it doesn't matter (and never has - the whole thing becomes moot).

TG2.

Yes, I'm the 33yo.

Actually, I've been in Thailand for 7 years, was married to a TG for 4 of those (no issues with property settlement when we divorced - perhaps I got lucky), and am quite familiar with visa extensions based on marriage (easy stuff). Yes, Thailand is where I've decided to stay, and I'm confident of my ability to do so.. I'm just going to be doing it with someone else now

I may have mentioned this before, but Siam Commercial Bank have offerred us a 30 year term, however we must of course be married first.

When calculating the maximum term it apparently came down to the lesser of 30 years, or 60 minus my spouse's current age - i.e. if your spouse is 30 or less you can get 30 years, if she's 40 you will get 20 years, etc. The amount they'd let us borrow is based around the monthly repayments - from what I can gather that works out to be no more than 25-30% of my salary, and all they need to see in regards to proof of income is an official letter from my employer and the last 6 months of banking history. They do make it seem quite straight-forward, but of course this is based around 50% down, so there's not a whole lot of risk on their side either.

I'm surprised to hear you're able to rent for less than repayments on a 25y mortgage, especially given the 50% down requirement and the normal rental ROI's I see in Thailand (8-15%).. If that's the case, and the wife is happy not to be a land owner, all I can say is Lucky You

Thanks for the post. Very informative!

Does this work if you work overseas? In other words, will the bank be ok with showing income earned elsewhere than in Thailand? (More than 20 years with the same employer!)

What if I have a collateral piece of property (overseas)? I doubt this will help as it is not something they can grab. Right?

What do you think of the Bangkok Bank terms I posted?

Thanks.

Not too sure if people are aware of this, but according to Bangkok Bank (http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok+Bank/Personal+Banking/Foreign+Customers/Frequently+Asked+Questions.htm#8):

What are the lending criteria for a non-resident home loan?

Bangkok Bank offers a range of home loan options, tailored to meet your needs. We offer flexible lending and attractively low interest rates.

You can borrow up to 70% of a property's appraised value or up to US$800,000

Loans can be denominated in one of four currencies – US Dollars, Singaporean Dollars, Euros and Japanese Yen

Repayments for up to 20 years

Competitive interest rate options available

Loan approval within two weeks of application

Application fees include:

Appraisal fee - Bt 2,500

Management fee - 0.5% of total loan, and

Balance clear - 3% of total loan

You will need to complete a mortgage application form that you can pick up from the branches listed above.

We also require the following documents:

Completed Mortgage Loan Application Form.

Copy of I.D. card (front and back) / passport (essential pages).

Signed copy of your Sales & Purchase Agreement or Reserve Agreement.

A reference letter from your existing bank, addressed to Bangkok Bank Public Co Ltd confirming your relationship with the bank, type of account you hold and the value of any loans or deposits you hold with the bank.

Bank statements for the last six months.

A Credit Bureau Report from your country of residence.

For employees: A letter from your employer, addressed to Bangkok Bank Public Co Ltd confirming your employment position, the number of years you have been employed and your salary, your last two years' of Income Tax Returns and computerized pay-slips for the last six months.

For Self-Employed individuals: The Balance Sheet Profit & Loss Statements from the last two years, and the last two years' Income Tax Returns

Others documents upon request

Note:

Approval of a loan is subject to the evaluation of an applicant's financial standing, repayment ability and at the bank's discretion.

The terms listed above are subject to change without prior notice.

I am considering using the mortgage route (if we were to buy a house) as it makes sense to me (considering the somewhat unfair legal parameters) and her level of poverty, since it seems like a relatively happy and safe medium. She has a job, but as a tour guide, it is seasonal and banks do not like that (or so I have been told). Of course, I am thinking of the longest term possible (a 30 year term, but I am dreaming) and as close to 70 % as possible as I don't think that at 50 she would turn her back on me (unless of course I were to be goneas in dead). I can also park my money somewhere else (and have some liquidity should anything happen) and paying the equivalent of a rent for 30 years is not a bad idea, I figure! Of course, I would prefer to buy it outright and have control of the house, but that is not possible! I am willing to take the risk that she could go anytime (and find another guy to pay it?)

I also have heard of the idea of an offshore company paying her a legitimate salary with which she could then be qualifying for and be paying the mortgage, as long as the company is willing.

Any comment?