Mobaan

get to the embassy before 10am get it back after 4pm same day for single entry; multi takes a couple of days. or at least it did last time i did it.

How much did they charge for a single entry visa ?

Does anybody in the Udon area have cassava trees appr. 1 year old . I need to buy about 1 Rai's worth in order to plant about 4 Rai.

Want to do this now -18-20 month crop cycle .

Would prefer Rayong 7 or 72 . Will cut ourselves .

Please PM for a bit of extra pocket money . Cutting (maybe selective ) will hardly influence your yield in Nov/ Dec.

Please send PM

We have 3,000 saplings on order near Phon Charoen in Issan, price is 30 baht each.

Gippy

Can you PM me a contact number for your supplier please. We are near Chiang rai but it would be worth the drive. Up here a good quality

seedling around 1 foot or bigger is 60 baht.

We already have 1500 baht and looking for 700 - 100 more. Thanks

Dont get your hopes up too high . Pre ordered or not -when thy think they can get a Baht more they will not honor you pre order . Happened to us. Odered for 35 , then it was 40 then they wanted 50 -of course I told them where to stick it and bought somewhere else . Also at 50 Baht , but at least that was the price quote upfront.

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!

I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).

The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.

I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.

Excuse a non-rubber guys opinion but for what it's worth. consider adding biochar to your planting and preparation strategy. Especially if you can get/make biochar that has been activated with a source of nitrogen. I produce high carbon compost from pig manure, rice straw and hulls and using carbonised rice hulls. Pig compost is relatively high in P and K values but normally low in nitrogen as is most compost. This biochar is used to control the smell of the first stage compost, ie. fresh manure and urine, by absorbing the ammonia emission as the pile heats up. This in turn activates the biochar and promotes the growth of healthy microbes which will promote healthy roots sytem which absorb more nutrients from the compost and any fertilisers used and resist disease.

Add biochar in the bottom of the hole and it will be there longer than we will all be around. It acts as a sponge for nitrogen and limits the nutrients leeching below the roots. It also converts much of the nitrogen into more plant useful forms. Net result is a reduction in fertiliser needed.

The same can be said if you prepare the soil around the trees final drip zone by adding biochar and compost. It will wait there for the roots and help with any preliminary intercropping while the trees grow.

Another plus is the biochar will help with water usage by improved the moisture holding capacity of the ground.

You could also look at using a compost or worm casting soil drench when planting to give the young tree a flying start.

Isaan Aussie.

Thanks for the reply .

If I understand this correctly you call it biochar- when you mean the carbonized rice hulls. Correct ?

Perhaps by default I have been doing exactly what you are promoting as your sideline business -the composted pig manure.

Currently we have the remnants (composted ) of about 100 bales of rice straw , mixed with the garden refuse and grass clippings and what not from a 3 Rai garden area , mixed with about 30-40 bags of cow manure and about the same amount of charred ricehulls . Composted now for 7 month , turned once -it looks as good as any compost I ever wanted to use in the garden. Does the fact that we used cow and not pig manure make a significant difference? . I could imagine the cow manure not beeing so rich in left over nutrients , but it was 100 % manure , not mixed with straw etc .

It might not be 100 % perfect , but I am sure the rubber plants will do good in it .

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!

I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).

The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.

I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.

Please let us know about your experience if/once you visited VT.

I might want to be right behind you -also want visit for the reasons you stated.

nope, I meant it's not worth visiting. Just imagine a Thailand with less comforts and more scams.

I would still like to go.

For me, Vietnam is just a name in the history books and, now that I live in SE Asia, I would like to see more.

Any constructive advice about making a visit - I can live with lesser comforts for a few days and will take extra care to look out for the scams.

My questions have been answered....no need for replies. Thank you.

Would you care to share your new found wisdom . There are others out there who want to know too.

Thanks guys for the info

Looking for a nice spot for an island vacation during june /July.

Stricktly from a general weather pattern point of view , where could one expect to have good weather .?

I remember reading some where that there is rain etc during that time in one area , while it is nice in another area at the same time ???

Thanks for the help

Well we got a 20 rai palm plantation and yield about 3.5 to 4 tonnes every 20 days. My father in law takes care of it and we hadn't had a kilo/baht missing, himself he has Palm too.

So I am happy with it.

Good to hear you are doing ok, so can you anwser my question. 25 rai more or less than $15,000 US per year clear profit. Jim

I did send you a PM !!!

Years ago I wanted a little four wheel drive diesel tractor. I could never justify it. Now I am retired and living in Loei province. No way could I justify buying one of those little tractors. I bought one anyways. My Thai wife says I wasted my money but I wanted it and bought it. It is a four wheel drive 31 HP three cylinder Yanmar. It has a rototiller, dozer blade and disk plow. It will NEVER pay for itself but it my toy and I enjoy it. We hire one of the local 6610 Ford tractors for heavy work because I refuse to abuse my little Yanmar. If you want a toy, buy one. If you have serious work to do, hire a local with a bigger tractor.

I send you a PM!!

When I had 50Rai of rubber and less I rented all the tractor work I needed, 250Baht/Rai. They would come in with the old 6610 ford's and do a hurry up job that was ok but not really that good. Offers of more money to do extra thing here and there were refused. Now that I have more land I bought a 46hp Kubota with rototiller,front blade and disc plow. I can now do my work at my speed and to my satisfaction, like Gary it is my toy and it's one of the best thing I've bought in Thailand.

As for operating, when running the rototiller, (higher RPM and slower gear) for a 8 hr day I use max of 30L. When plowing (lower RPM and higher gear) I can get two full days from a 40L tank. I do some contracting out that the wife arranges but I bought it for my use and I don't like having her cousins drive the thing because

a. they don't know how,

b. they don't care about learning.

I send you a PM!!

hithere

Don't realy follow what you are asking. Every year you need to fertilise, 72 rai is 144 50 kilos bags a year. if you havent I would think your trees are in a poor state. Jim

I was asking about the prices stated. The family take care of everything. I pay when my father in law tells me something needs paying for. Just thought it about time that I actually knew what a truck of manure and a bag of fertiliser costs elsewhere.

Don't know about manure, but good fertiliser 1000 to 1200 Baht a 50 kilo bag. Jim

Are there significant price fluctuations for chem . fertilzer over the span of a year ?. Would it make financial sence to buy when /if the price is low ,store and use later?

What fertilzer are we talking about ?

What is "good" fertilizer?

Maybe we could get some "across the Nation" (Rubber producing areas ) prices as comparision.

Thanks guys for your replies , keep them coming , so we can compare and help each other.

For renting out paddie land the number 4500 bath per rai per year has been thrown around alot.

Hence it will take years just to get the initial capital back and a huge number of rais to live on the proceeds.

MrLaoKao: surely that is up north? In the sounth there is a price bubble?

That must be a different planet . Around Udon Thani rice land sells for around 50 000. You can rent it out for 300-500 Baht per Rai. Same goes for cassava land .Its being offered AND sold for 50-70 000 per rai ,rental income is a bout 300-400 bath per year per Rai.Sugarcane land similar ,depending a bit on location in regard to the nearest mill ,rental up to 1400 bath possible.

But still , with the current land prices one has to have an extrem long term outlook -like in generation-(maybe we can learn something from our Chineese neighbors)to make this investment pay.

As most of us know by now ,annual return per Rai ,if you farm it yourself MAY be around 5-7 K on average .If that income could come from land purchased at 20K its ok , but when you pay 50-60 k it does not make very much financial sense anymore . Than the hobby/gentlemens farming idea will have to come into play.

Please help me make a decision . I am no expert and hope you can point out what I am missing.

I try to decide to either buy a mid sized tractor with some implements ,say for 500000 THB , or hire the work out.

I assume a 20 year life of the tractor , so that would be an annual depreciation of 25000 TBH or 125 THB per hour ( if worked for 200 hours per year.)

Next I would count on about 3000 TBH every 100 hours for oilchange etc ,which would mean 30 THB per hour.

I assume an average of 2 liter diesel consumption per wrk hour , so that would be 60TBH

If I count for 5 % interest /opportunity cost on 500 000 THB that costs me another 125 THB per hour

for a grand total of 340 TBH per work hour.

Wages for the driver (that would be me are negated)

What did I miss in my calculations ?

Sure there will be some repairs , cost for parts etc , but I have a hard time putting a number to that -would 60 THB be enough to bring the grand total to 400 THB per hour?

Important ( to me ) will be the fact that I can get things done when and how I want them to be done .

I invite everybody to add ,correct or whatever . All input is welcome.

Afarang, jai yen yen. The op asked if anyone knew the current price of young trees. Not where the cheapest ones were on sale.

You just posted an incredible rant based on no info about the OP. Who are you really upset with?

If one is quoted 25 baht in one place and 45 baht in another, then I also would want to know why.

As for r-eplanting included in the price, I would not go down that road personally. There are to many factors involved where the seller can tell you they have died for various reasons and the charge you again for the re-planting.

Check out ordering from elsewhere and see if the transport costs make it economical.

Can you tell us which type of trees you are ordering, just to give us a heads up on current price/type.

There are new strains available which mature quicker and supposedly have a higher yield. But they will only give these results if they are reared properly.

Good luck with you search.

P.S. Don't forget to but a few spares.

C35B.

Just a slight diversion of the orignal question of this post ,please.

You mention newer varieties . Lets use this a the key word . Here around Udon the 600 and 251 are the most prevalent varieties . As a matter of fact ,until last week I never saw something else . Now a local nursery has a new Malaysian variety . All sorts of claims are made , but obviously that lady does know as little about the latex yields and lifespan of thr tree etc than me myself and the guy next door .

So ,forgetting all the sales talk .Does anybody have personal experiences with the newer varieties . I have not been able to get any answers to these questions ,not even from the local rubber extention service or the research farms. What would be appropriate to plant now )next July )

When are the exact dates for the Agric. Show in KK in Jan 2011 -and where does it take place?

When are the exact dates for the Agric. Show in KK in Jan 2011 -and where does it take place?

Thats a fair enough answer. Now -what does a good vs bad tree look like ?

Is there any way to determine that by looking at them ,doing some testing???(leaf tests??). Or is it a matter of waiting for the rubber yield to see if this was a good /bad tree.?

I you look at a 5-6 year old plantation (according to the owners)that is offered for sale, what will have an influence on the price you would be willing to pay?

I would imagine the way the tree was brought up (with or w/o fertilization /irrigation /ground maintenace ) will have an influence . So the tree may be fair/good /very good for its age. Is there a way to bring the standart up in a fair situation by providing all the needed (and more ) requirements to bring the tree up to par by the time tapping starts?

James ,you are the resident expert here , can we please have your input.

Hi there, first question is why anyone would want to sell 8 year old trees in the first place. They should be pumping out rubber and if the land is Charnot the owner could borrow from a bank, as they have a income. As for price I would be happy to pay 100,000 Baht a Rai plus 2000 bht a tree. Best advice go and watch them being tapped and see how much rubber they get> Jim

WOW-100 000 per Rai plus 70 trees at 2000 each ,that would come to 240 000 per Rai. Around Udon there are plenty of rubber Rais 5-7 years old with asking prices of around 140-150000 per rai. Bring your Baht over here and make a killing .

I believe what happened is his: Landowneres/investors(our Chineese neighbors) had or bought land on the cheap years ago . Nothing wrong with that . They planted the trees to increase the vaue of the property .Good thinking. That is fairly easy to do and can be mechanized etc ,not too much involvement. But now ,when the trees come into production, they do not want the management hassle and dont want to be robbed blind by the people doing the tapping (I certaily can understand that fera , because I feel the same way).

So there might be opportunities for someone who really wants to get seriously into this business-if indeed the returns are such that a price of 240000 per Rai would be justified.

As a US green card holder -is it possible to apply for a Thailand residency visa (provided all the requirements are met) and NOT run afowl with the US green card requirements -eg not loose the greencard status?

Does anyone know if this Ton-Son will grow (semi-comercially)in Isaan?

Has anyone planted some ?

Moban, good to hear you got some action. The community nurses in Thailand are generally quite well trained and helpful. Psychiatrists on the other hand are a mixed bunch, and have a tendency to over prescribe medication, simply to keep patients quiet.

In the past patients often stopped their meds. because of the side effects, which could be permanent. eg.constant tremors, shuffling gait,uncontrolled facial movements and sun susceptibility. Newer meds have many fewer side effects, are effective but more expensive. So public hospitals in Asian countries are still inclined to go for the cheaper options. Most patients know that the side effects of the old meds, make them look odd, so they stay at home often alone and -- get frustrated, angry and ill - again. Contrary to myth the majority of people with a mental illness have normal intelligence, so when they are well,they can be counselled and advised about the effects of their behaviour on others.

Tim Armstrong ,

you seem to have a grasp on the mental illness situation . This lady when she is affected ( now pretty much constantly) is talking up a storm , almost 24 hours a day . It is amzing where she gets the energy form to be up almost all day long and talk and sing and shout (vulgarities for the most ). Nobody knows if she has any medication. People stay away from her . Family would like to not know anything about ther etc . I hope the nurses can get something done . She refuses our offers for food , because she is afraid to be poisioned .Otherwise she seems to be in decent physical condition , appearently she gets enough food from the Wat.

The local Puya Ban claims not to know any contacts for her family , but I suspect , that this the normal "I dont want to get involved "issue - as usual.

If the hospital/nurse can not get any thing accomplished , would it be advisable to contact the police. Or might it help to contact the abbot of the Wat where she gets her food?

I already have resigned to the fact that I as usual will have to foot the bill for the damages she caused to the property .

As mentioned earlier I am more than willig to help with the cost of medication, but we will have to find a way to get her to take it . There was mention of a monthly shot in the arm, what would that be ? Any idea about the costs !

Unfortunately there is no Dept.of Mental Health (per say) in Thailand. Family is expected to care for her. The problem is that there are virtually no resouces to help the family deal with the her even if they wanted to help, so you can't really blame them for their frustrations. Thailand is way behind the times when it comes to dealing with Mental Health issues. The situation sounds intolerable. Maybe a move may be in order? Best of Luck.

There is a Dept. of Mental Health within the main Dept of Health in Bangkok, and usually a large psych. hospital in each province. Mental health problems of this kind are usually dealt with by a psychiatrist based in your main provincial town, and the local community nurses at village community health clinics. The place to start is with your community clinic or local GP, to find out if she actually is known to the system. Thais are afraid of mental health problems because they often think they are 'contagious' or have connections to ghosts, and bad karma - which is one reason they keep their distance.

If the person is known, she may have stopped taking her medication or not been visited for a while. If there is no one to monitor her medication, she may be able to receive a monthly injection, depending on the diagnosis, (which sounds like a psychotic disorder). The cost of medication to people in this situation is usually free, but there maybe issues here as well if there are relatives. Suggest you get a sympathetic Thai person to go with you to the local clinic nearest to her to discuss the problem,and make an assessment. But be careful about getting too involved,(unless you want to)-especially if relatives know a farlang is interested, as you may be asked for a financial contribution.

Less well known is that many towns and villages have a network of local business people who do actually provide some welfare type assistance to people in these circumstances. Local administrators know who to contact.

But almost certainly the situation probably can be improved on - to everyone's benefit.

Thanks very much everybody for the input . I have contacted the local hospital/nurse and indeed they are responsive and will get into the act (I hope). BTW the location is in Udon Thani Province.