Mobaan

Does anybody in the Udon area have cassava trees appr. 1 year old . I need to buy about 1 Rai's worth in order to plant about 4 Rai.

Want to do this now -18-20 month crop cycle .

Would prefer Rayong 7 or 72 . Will cut ourselves .

Please PM for a bit of extra pocket money . Cutting (maybe selective ) will hardly influence your yield in Nov/ Dec.

Please send PM

I want to do the 18-20 crop cycle and want to plant w/i the next 2 weeks if I can . Did check on the various contributions reg varieties but did not find any specific response as to which variety maybe better suited for the double crop cycle -or does it matter ?

We are near Udon and will use Rayong 7 or Rayong 72 if I can get the stems . Hardly anybody harvests now -thou there are a few depararte souls who harvest after 3-4 month . One local factory is open and offers 2.2 Baht ( 30 %)

Thanks everybody about the Furadan question, still did not decide if I want to use it or not -will see.

Something else is on my mind now . I brought an earthauger with a 8 inch auger from the US to make the planting holes .

Its a far cry from the "recommended" 50x50x50 cm hole ,but I can make a hole easy by myself in 10 seconds flat -2.5 foot deep.It certauinly is big enough to accommodate the tree seedling , but admittedly does not leave much room to add compost to the back fill .

The soil is well prepared and soft enough for the roots to grow in -so what is the deal with those large planting holes??

A little change of directions here -if you all dont mind .

Next week we will hopefully start planting .

A friend of mine ( who unfortunately died recently -so I can not ask him )had a PhD in chemistry , so I trust his word on this. He was extremly paranoid about using Furadan(short and long term poision effects ) at the time of planting . From his widow I now learned that he used 3 moth balls per planting hole at the time of planting . Thats 2 years ago and the trees look fine to me .

Could anyone comment on this please.

We have 3,000 saplings on order near Phon Charoen in Issan, price is 30 baht each.

Gippy

Can you PM me a contact number for your supplier please. We are near Chiang rai but it would be worth the drive. Up here a good quality

seedling around 1 foot or bigger is 60 baht.

We already have 1500 baht and looking for 700 - 100 more. Thanks

Dont get your hopes up too high . Pre ordered or not -when thy think they can get a Baht more they will not honor you pre order . Happened to us. Odered for 35 , then it was 40 then they wanted 50 -of course I told them where to stick it and bought somewhere else . Also at 50 Baht , but at least that was the price quote upfront.

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!

I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).

The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.

I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.

Excuse a non-rubber guys opinion but for what it's worth. consider adding biochar to your planting and preparation strategy. Especially if you can get/make biochar that has been activated with a source of nitrogen. I produce high carbon compost from pig manure, rice straw and hulls and using carbonised rice hulls. Pig compost is relatively high in P and K values but normally low in nitrogen as is most compost. This biochar is used to control the smell of the first stage compost, ie. fresh manure and urine, by absorbing the ammonia emission as the pile heats up. This in turn activates the biochar and promotes the growth of healthy microbes which will promote healthy roots sytem which absorb more nutrients from the compost and any fertilisers used and resist disease.

Add biochar in the bottom of the hole and it will be there longer than we will all be around. It acts as a sponge for nitrogen and limits the nutrients leeching below the roots. It also converts much of the nitrogen into more plant useful forms. Net result is a reduction in fertiliser needed.

The same can be said if you prepare the soil around the trees final drip zone by adding biochar and compost. It will wait there for the roots and help with any preliminary intercropping while the trees grow.

Another plus is the biochar will help with water usage by improved the moisture holding capacity of the ground.

You could also look at using a compost or worm casting soil drench when planting to give the young tree a flying start.

Isaan Aussie.

Thanks for the reply .

If I understand this correctly you call it biochar- when you mean the carbonized rice hulls. Correct ?

Perhaps by default I have been doing exactly what you are promoting as your sideline business -the composted pig manure.

Currently we have the remnants (composted ) of about 100 bales of rice straw , mixed with the garden refuse and grass clippings and what not from a 3 Rai garden area , mixed with about 30-40 bags of cow manure and about the same amount of charred ricehulls . Composted now for 7 month , turned once -it looks as good as any compost I ever wanted to use in the garden. Does the fact that we used cow and not pig manure make a significant difference? . I could imagine the cow manure not beeing so rich in left over nutrients , but it was 100 % manure , not mixed with straw etc .

It might not be 100 % perfect , but I am sure the rubber plants will do good in it .

We will be planting rubber this June .The recommendation seems to be to add rockphosphate in the planting hole ?!

I will make the holes with an 8 inch earth auger about 50-60 cm deep . The plan would be to add a cup(?) of rock phsphate and a small bucket of compost to half of the soil that is removed fromt he hole -mixed and filled back to leave about a 30 cm deep hole ( to accomodate the plant ).

The remaing soil would be mixed with another half bucket of compost , mixed and filled around the root when planting.

I would assume that rockphosphate is not as agressive on the young roots as NPK would be -am I correct.

Please let us know about your experience if/once you visited VT.

I might want to be right behind you -also want visit for the reasons you stated.

nope, I meant it's not worth visiting. Just imagine a Thailand with less comforts and more scams.

I would still like to go.

For me, Vietnam is just a name in the history books and, now that I live in SE Asia, I would like to see more.

Any constructive advice about making a visit - I can live with lesser comforts for a few days and will take extra care to look out for the scams.

My questions have been answered....no need for replies. Thank you.

Would you care to share your new found wisdom . There are others out there who want to know too.

Thanks guys for the info

Looking for a nice spot for an island vacation during june /July.

Stricktly from a general weather pattern point of view , where could one expect to have good weather .?

I remember reading some where that there is rain etc during that time in one area , while it is nice in another area at the same time ???

Thanks for the help

Well we got a 20 rai palm plantation and yield about 3.5 to 4 tonnes every 20 days. My father in law takes care of it and we hadn't had a kilo/baht missing, himself he has Palm too.

So I am happy with it.

Good to hear you are doing ok, so can you anwser my question. 25 rai more or less than $15,000 US per year clear profit. Jim

I did send you a PM !!!

Years ago I wanted a little four wheel drive diesel tractor. I could never justify it. Now I am retired and living in Loei province. No way could I justify buying one of those little tractors. I bought one anyways. My Thai wife says I wasted my money but I wanted it and bought it. It is a four wheel drive 31 HP three cylinder Yanmar. It has a rototiller, dozer blade and disk plow. It will NEVER pay for itself but it my toy and I enjoy it. We hire one of the local 6610 Ford tractors for heavy work because I refuse to abuse my little Yanmar. If you want a toy, buy one. If you have serious work to do, hire a local with a bigger tractor.

I send you a PM!!

When I had 50Rai of rubber and less I rented all the tractor work I needed, 250Baht/Rai. They would come in with the old 6610 ford's and do a hurry up job that was ok but not really that good. Offers of more money to do extra thing here and there were refused. Now that I have more land I bought a 46hp Kubota with rototiller,front blade and disc plow. I can now do my work at my speed and to my satisfaction, like Gary it is my toy and it's one of the best thing I've bought in Thailand.

As for operating, when running the rototiller, (higher RPM and slower gear) for a 8 hr day I use max of 30L. When plowing (lower RPM and higher gear) I can get two full days from a 40L tank. I do some contracting out that the wife arranges but I bought it for my use and I don't like having her cousins drive the thing because

a. they don't know how,

b. they don't care about learning.

I send you a PM!!

hithere

Don't realy follow what you are asking. Every year you need to fertilise, 72 rai is 144 50 kilos bags a year. if you havent I would think your trees are in a poor state. Jim

I was asking about the prices stated. The family take care of everything. I pay when my father in law tells me something needs paying for. Just thought it about time that I actually knew what a truck of manure and a bag of fertiliser costs elsewhere.

Don't know about manure, but good fertiliser 1000 to 1200 Baht a 50 kilo bag. Jim

Are there significant price fluctuations for chem . fertilzer over the span of a year ?. Would it make financial sence to buy when /if the price is low ,store and use later?

What fertilzer are we talking about ?

What is "good" fertilizer?

Maybe we could get some "across the Nation" (Rubber producing areas ) prices as comparision.

Thanks guys for your replies , keep them coming , so we can compare and help each other.

For renting out paddie land the number 4500 bath per rai per year has been thrown around alot.

Hence it will take years just to get the initial capital back and a huge number of rais to live on the proceeds.

MrLaoKao: surely that is up north? In the sounth there is a price bubble?

That must be a different planet . Around Udon Thani rice land sells for around 50 000. You can rent it out for 300-500 Baht per Rai. Same goes for cassava land .Its being offered AND sold for 50-70 000 per rai ,rental income is a bout 300-400 bath per year per Rai.Sugarcane land similar ,depending a bit on location in regard to the nearest mill ,rental up to 1400 bath possible.

But still , with the current land prices one has to have an extrem long term outlook -like in generation-(maybe we can learn something from our Chineese neighbors)to make this investment pay.

As most of us know by now ,annual return per Rai ,if you farm it yourself MAY be around 5-7 K on average .If that income could come from land purchased at 20K its ok , but when you pay 50-60 k it does not make very much financial sense anymore . Than the hobby/gentlemens farming idea will have to come into play.

Please help me make a decision . I am no expert and hope you can point out what I am missing.

I try to decide to either buy a mid sized tractor with some implements ,say for 500000 THB , or hire the work out.

I assume a 20 year life of the tractor , so that would be an annual depreciation of 25000 TBH or 125 THB per hour ( if worked for 200 hours per year.)

Next I would count on about 3000 TBH every 100 hours for oilchange etc ,which would mean 30 THB per hour.

I assume an average of 2 liter diesel consumption per wrk hour , so that would be 60TBH

If I count for 5 % interest /opportunity cost on 500 000 THB that costs me another 125 THB per hour

for a grand total of 340 TBH per work hour.

Wages for the driver (that would be me are negated)

What did I miss in my calculations ?

Sure there will be some repairs , cost for parts etc , but I have a hard time putting a number to that -would 60 THB be enough to bring the grand total to 400 THB per hour?

Important ( to me ) will be the fact that I can get things done when and how I want them to be done .

I invite everybody to add ,correct or whatever . All input is welcome.

Afarang, jai yen yen. The op asked if anyone knew the current price of young trees. Not where the cheapest ones were on sale.

You just posted an incredible rant based on no info about the OP. Who are you really upset with?

If one is quoted 25 baht in one place and 45 baht in another, then I also would want to know why.

As for r-eplanting included in the price, I would not go down that road personally. There are to many factors involved where the seller can tell you they have died for various reasons and the charge you again for the re-planting.

Check out ordering from elsewhere and see if the transport costs make it economical.

Can you tell us which type of trees you are ordering, just to give us a heads up on current price/type.

There are new strains available which mature quicker and supposedly have a higher yield. But they will only give these results if they are reared properly.

Good luck with you search.

P.S. Don't forget to but a few spares.

C35B.

Just a slight diversion of the orignal question of this post ,please.

You mention newer varieties . Lets use this a the key word . Here around Udon the 600 and 251 are the most prevalent varieties . As a matter of fact ,until last week I never saw something else . Now a local nursery has a new Malaysian variety . All sorts of claims are made , but obviously that lady does know as little about the latex yields and lifespan of thr tree etc than me myself and the guy next door .

So ,forgetting all the sales talk .Does anybody have personal experiences with the newer varieties . I have not been able to get any answers to these questions ,not even from the local rubber extention service or the research farms. What would be appropriate to plant now )next July )

I stumbled onto ThaiSecondhand.com look around a little and you'll see a link for tractors. 76 listings at the time of this writing.

It IS in THAI LANGUAGE though so get some help or use a google chrome internet browser to translate. That works. sort of.

I have been offered a second hand New Holland(Ford) TT 55 , 2 years old , 2200 hours , last full service at 2000 hours .Supposedly used in rubber farming -looks good from the outside . Asking price is 630 000 incl a front mounted grader blade .

Is that a fair price ??

What are the dates /places for the Khoen Kaen Agric. Fair that is supposed to be end of January??

When are the exact dates for the Agric. Show in KK in Jan 2011 -and where does it take place?

When are the exact dates for the Agric. Show in KK in Jan 2011 -and where does it take place?

There seems to be huge regional price variations.

In my area of Chayapoum price was 3.30 (2.97 after they chop 10% for dirt content) last week but there are 5 or 6 mills within a small area all competing.

In preparation to plant a new 18-20 month crop next year , we enquired with the local buyers. Most do NOT want to buy anything older than one year . Some may take older roots ,but warn that the starch content will be very low and if the roots strt to get hollow , they will not take them at all .

Whats all this ?

Has anybody any similar experience ?

Thats a fair enough answer. Now -what does a good vs bad tree look like ?

Is there any way to determine that by looking at them ,doing some testing???(leaf tests??). Or is it a matter of waiting for the rubber yield to see if this was a good /bad tree.?

I you look at a 5-6 year old plantation (according to the owners)that is offered for sale, what will have an influence on the price you would be willing to pay?

I would imagine the way the tree was brought up (with or w/o fertilization /irrigation /ground maintenace ) will have an influence . So the tree may be fair/good /very good for its age. Is there a way to bring the standart up in a fair situation by providing all the needed (and more ) requirements to bring the tree up to par by the time tapping starts?

James ,you are the resident expert here , can we please have your input.