Mousehound

Forgot to include a link  to pictures of Saigon.

The following are some personal observations following extensive research into Saigon and a recent visit.

On Travel arrangements:

visas are required for many, but not all Nationalities.  Check it out as things change rapidly.  If you need a visa then you can apply online for a visa in advance through one of the agencies.  This system seems to work.  You pre apply and download your application online.  At Saigon airport you do to the specified desk (it is well signposted) and hand in documents and await your turn to be called.  if things are busy this can take quite a long time.  I chose to get my visa overseas, it was easy to get but cost an extra $20 and required two trips to the Embassy.  But this suited me fine and meant no hold ups at the Saigon end.  The Visa cost me $70US. There is no disembarkation card to fill in.  Saigon airport is quite small - think Don Muang.  The exchange places are not too bad a rate but I already had the 140 - 180 Dong required for a cab to Distict1. The best rates of exchange were to be found at the jewellers that abound in District 1, but I got a good rate from my hotel, amazingly.

On exiting the airport there are plenty of cabs but ensure you only take a Vinasun or MaiLinh.  They will always put the meter on - it does not come on for the first twenty meters or so - and they often have a tablet with maps showing your progress.  There is an additional 10k for the airport charge which needs to go on top of the meter reading.  Money is spoken of in terms of thousands so 10 (muay) means 10k for example.  I usually gave the cab driver up to 10k depending on length of travel, time of night and whether I liked them or not, but many would not accept anything over the meter amount.  I also left a hat and, stupidly, my camera bag in taxis.  Both found their way back to the hotel.

The natives are generally very friendly.  They do not speak as much English as Thai and especially off the tourist track you can find communication a struggle.  I learned enough Vietnamese to get about and buy things etc before I arrived and found it helped a lot.

In downtown Saigon the streets are wide, generally well paved and the shops and eateries etc expensive.  Happy hour at The Rex's five o'clock follies (a nice once off treat for me) cost $20 for a drink but with a great view of the city and a complimentary beer chaser to my huge cocktail.

Saigon is a rapidly developing city but does not compare to BKK for size or facilities.  On the other hand it has a nice feel to it.  The French buildings and café heritage as well as boulevards and pastry shops give it a nice feel.  Off the main drag the side walks become rapidly a minefield and scooters clutter and impede progress.  Much like Thailand. 

There are excellent deli type operations that stock a healthy collection of imported foodstuff for the growing and large expat contingency, most of whom seem to live in District 2.  District 2 is an antiseptic self contained city filled with expats.  A city of wide, well ordered streets and massive towering condominiums that sit upon every kind of familiar food outlet other than Vietnamese.  If you want to live on American style fast food this is your place.  there are International Schools here with a large Japanese and Korean population working with the many companies from these countries.  This is an expensive part of the city to live with prices typically 1500 to 2000US  a month.  Property prices in Saigon are very high.  A small shophouse in D1 but not in the heart of things is going to cost over a million US.  So rents are high.  Wages for the average worker are low at sat 150US a month for a waiter in a restaurant. 

Shopping is done in districts rather than at shopping centres. One area will have every musical instrument known to man, and few more beside.  The fabric market areas are huge.  Whole areas are devoted to hardware - one shop sell just scissors, another screwdrivers and another the parts to make up a wrought iron fence.  yet another area will be dedicated to sheet metal and another electrical.

Things to do as a tourist:  The city is really a two day event with a day or so for visiting the Delta and tunnels etc.  But if you are after an off the beaten track adventure, so to speak then things look up a bit.  I visited quality music places every evening.  They start typically at 9 and finish at midnight.  Sax and Art have the owner playing from 10pm.  This guy is world class on the sax.  Yoko has a very solid rock band.  hard Rock Café has a good Salsa night as does La Fenetre Soliel and Cuba La Casa de Mojito (twenty meters apart).  There are many others and several famous duff duff techno spots such as Apocalypse now - but not to my taste.  Some have a small cover charge but usually includes a drink.

On drinks - beer is cheap.  Draught beers especially so.  Food is OK but apart from BBQ meats I preferred Thai food.  Saigon is really into sea food which does not appeal to me so much.  The soup Pho is their staple street food and OK.  Pho is pronounced Fur by the way as "Foe"  would get you a lady of the night.  The later being scarce compared to Thailand.

On double pricing:  The famous Benh Than tourist (tat) markets are about twice the price you should pay for anything and I bargained them down to one third of the asking price just to see how far I could get them down.  The Saigon centre markets are no better,  There really is not a lot to buy there.  certainly not computer or camera gear.  As a foreigner you will be overcharged in the main tourist areas.  Food is an exception in restaurants or street side stalls.  Vietnamese pay 20% tax and expats pay 40%.  I am told National Parks are free for locals but tourists pay but I have not confirmed this.

I spent a lot of time looking at buying a scooter.  An old style Honda with kick start, but made in japan, can be had new for 500US and the same model (125cc) with electric start and Made in China was $550.  A good proposition was a second hand one my Vietnamese friend found - a Yamaha Nuovo 135cc for 200US.  No papers and I could sell it anywhere for a drop of 50 to 100 dollars depending how fast I needed to get rid of it.  Repairs are ridiculously cheap there.  technically you can't drive a scooter over 50cc without a license and the cops will ask for tea monies when they pick you up.  You can't drive a car in VN - period.  Vietnam is starting to issue it's own citizens with IDP but does not recognise them as valid for tourists.  The drive out od Saigon is easy and only takes about ten minutes.  The road North along the coast is lined with excellent camping sites with western style facilities and makes a nice trip.  Avoid highway one at all costs.  Beware your insurance will most likely not cover you for scooters.

On safety:  As with all destinations I have travelled I have been warned about scams, theft, muggings and the health dangers - including every deadly disease known to man.  in Saigon the locals wre repeatedly warning me agains carrying my camera and phone.  I was also warned against going into the parks at night because of the drugged out  holding you up at knife point.  The latter could be a real possibility and certainly there are opportunistic thieves but I felt safer in Saigon than in BKK and frankly I feel pretty safe there as well.

The back packer area od Bui Vien and  Pham Ngu Lao is full of even seedier specimens than Khao San and certainly not as nice as Soi Rambutri.  BKK backpackers seem a better lot to me.  The main hotel area is expensive so I stayed in a sort of half way area with a good large, well air-conditioned room and private bathroom for 20US a night.  There are cheaper to be had for sure.  This included an OK breakfast.  My preference would be in or about Bui Thi Xuan.  This area is well known to cab drivers, has plenty of restaurants and is within walking distance of all the sites.

Last minute thoughts:  Optical is OK there but no better that Thailand and they use lens blanks from the Hoya works in Thailand anyway.  I would think dental would be better in Thailand. 

UBER and GRAB is big in Saigon if you want to go that way.  Cheaper than taxis.  They even have GRAB scooters.  You can get a SIM card at the airport and download the app.  Google Maps are your friend.

Can't think of much else at this point.

I see the usual moaners are at it.  Well, the service may close but at least it is there.  So much for all the TV whiners stating it would never happen.  I also like the ones that complain about safety.  It most likely is a risk but then I have travelled in those crazy mini buses and I will take my chance on the ferry thanks.  I will be using it regularly.

BKK is fast becoming a giant tedious mall filled with whinging whining ex pats who really want to live exactly as they did where they came from.  Pity they don't go back there.  I only got food poisoning once and that was from dinner at a five star hotel.  Never had a problem from a busy street vendor. 

Isn't there anything in the world more worth while we can all moan about? 

5 hours ago, ChesneyHawkes said:

The guy looks like he's sitting with a pair of Jimmy Hill's (for those who don't know who he is google it and you'll see the resemblance)

I knew Jimmy.  went to school with his son.  I can tell you that they don't look like him. But the ball control could be about the same.

20 hours ago, manarak said:

If you studied it, you know what it's worth... it can't be applied where its application would be needed and nearly all countries have a different understanding of it, ranging from "huh?" to "ius cogens ranks higher than decisions of the UN security council".

 

Personally, I consider ius cogens to be a bunch of bi- and multilateral conventions and treaties, but there is no "international law", simply because nobody has worldwide jurisdiction and power of enforcement.

The remainder of what has been thought up as ius cogens is negated by reality.

 

International Law is applied in many fields.  Google it and in particular read some of the descriptions of cases examined by NYU staff and students.  But to say International Law doesn't exist or have import is incorrect.

25 minutes ago, manarak said:

except... there is no such thing as "international law"

Damn! And I spent a whole year studying Jus cogens for nothing. I want my money back.

18 hours ago, walterego said:

Thanks firstly for your input and sorry for my delayed response. I needed to confirm details. I appreciate that it is perceived as a difficult thing. From what I understand though, and I have confirmed this with family (much as many TVFM do not trust Thai families my in laws are fantastic, I trust them implicitly and love them very much) who have thoroughly checked and this is very doable. I go and get prior approval for the bike to arrive with me on a tourist visa from consulate/embassy/or though a tour group operator for up to 6 months (but usually 3 months) with that in hand, the bike is then flown straight into BKK airport. Its in the country, and its not going out of the country! Unfortunately I cannot go into details as to how this is done after arriving in country, though it involves a transfer to another person and a border trip to Laos/cambodia. It is easily done and anyone with a will to do so and a Thai friend that they trust not to steal their bike after a transfer of ownership can do it. So in actual fact I will not legally own the bike anymore, though it will remain in my possession.  I do appreciate your warnings. 

Having only ridden a Harley other than this one a few times and been a pillion only just a few the same, I am probably far less than novice but that said there are still some obvious differences between this and the Harleys I am used to seeing.

The indicator is similar to the Jap/korea ones in that it is on the one switch not an indicator on each side of the handle bars, there is no under seat storage! Now this is apparently standard on all HDs though dumb is as dumb does so as I did not know, I looked for ages as to how to lift up my seat for the storage area! Duh!

Some of the cables are just not sealed at the ends with the same quality fittings as my friends HD has for example (they are ok but there is something superior about the rubber fittings on his model).

The Neutral light is not reliable and does not switch on all the time when it should. This is a problem and reading forums seems to be a common problem with the HD street in general. Mind you I don't rely on it anyway, but that is not the point.

It is fairly gutless compared to say a 500cc road bike like the CBR, I don't mean that in a bad way, it is more than ample for my needs. It is comfortable, very comfortable, and I know I said that in my first post but comparatively, it really is. Despite forums saying it is no good for tall people, I am tall and find it very comfortable to ride, the seat is ok and I am confident I could sit in it for hours on end no problem. It is also highly manoeuvrable. Having got used to it a bit now it is every bit as good (well nearly as good) as the CBR was at weaving its way around traffic, it turns well and it is not a wide bike. It is also well balanced. Its looks are deceiving in that it is far more dexterous than it appears.

Mouse Hound that is a great pick up! Congrats on your new toy! Just saw one on bike sales with a windscreen, old bags and 65k on the clock for nearly 5k

http://www.bikesales.com.au/dealer/OAG-AD-14094332/2010-Suzuki-Boulevard-C50-(VL800)/?cr=0&psq=(((Make%3D[Suzuki]%26Model%3D[Boulevard C50 (VL800)])%26((((SiloType%3D[Brand new bikes available]|SiloType%3D[Brand new bikes in stock])|SiloType%3D[Demo %26 near new bikes])|SiloType%3D[Dealer used bikes])|SiloType%3D[Private used bikes]))%26Service%3D[Bikesales])&pso=0&pss=Premium

so you did very well. In the pic it hides the old toy in the background which is perhaps getting some well earned rest.

 

HD is crazy not selling them in Thailand as they are so well suited. 500cc being quite a large bike for Thai roads. I cant imagine why they wont become hugely popular.

 

(sorry about the numerous typos I cant be bothered going back over every red underline).

Thanks for your comments.  Yes the older bike in the background is a CB400 .  I nice little bike as it has the race engine in it.  Actually quite quick and very noisy with a cut muffler.  The cruiser is way more comfortable if not as much fun in the traffic.  One thing I notice is the cruiser, even though small by cruiser standards, does keep the traffic from creeping up on you.  It does dominate the road better.  It is also surprisingly nimble and although its top speed is very ordinary it is low geared so acceleration is fair.

I had a mechanic give it a total going over and full service, valve adjustment etc yesterday - all good.

best odf luck with your Harley project.  There is always a way!

On whether the cost of Visas have any effect on tourism.  With the family off to Vietnam for a week I have just paid $360 AUS to the local embassy.  I could have reduced this by about eighty dollars by doing a visa on arrival but still a real cost of travel.  This certainly equates to a couple of nights in a decent hotel in BKK.

Unfortunately he has some serious funding support from The Cash Cow.

11 hours ago, jimlek said:

I've had surgery in Thailand and could not fault anything from beginning to end,and follow up visits. All Doctors at this public hospital that I dealt with, listened and had no problem answering questions. Superior to my own country of NZ.

Praise indeed as my experience with NZ hospitals and medical in general is they are far superior to the Australian and UK system.  My best friend is a doctor (Brit now practicing in OZ) he has worked as a visiting specialist in a couple of Thai hospitals and even he sometimes gets work done in Thailand.  Another, quite well known farang identity in Thailand told me of how he would regularly fly back to the UK to have a check up with his Harley Street specialist to be told don't bother.  Thailand has some world class specialists in the field he was concerned with.  And my only emergency experience was with a young female backpacker who was seriously ill and had heavy internal bleeding.  I rushed her off to the hospital whilst the farang boarding house owner phoned ahead.  They were waiting for us at emergency and had her Dutch doctor on the phone.  Instantly whisked away for tests and some surgery.  She and her partner later told me the place was more modern and cleaner than anything in Holland and there they would most likely have had to wait for hours before being seen.

My personal advice would be that if you live or spend a lot of time in Thailand get procedures done there but if not and there could be complications then get them done in your home country.  but aI believe that if you go to the right place and see the right people then Thailand is good. 

I have only had dental work done but my Australian dentist has told me the work is as good as anything he has seen.  My dentist trained and worked for seven years in New York.

9 hours ago, ukrules said:

The trains are so shit in Thailand it's almost unbelievable. 5 hours to Bangkok from Hua Hin.

 

It was quicker to travel this distance in the UK 100 years ago.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/rail-strikes-disastrous-southern-rail-rmt-industrial-action-labour-diane-abbott-a7482746.html

And it might take a week now!

3 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

Just now, on the Bell Travel web site for a random date in February:

 

 

Did the screen that quoted you B784 look anything like that?  The fare has been B389 per person for as long as I can remember, and I used to use the bus about once per month.

No, I contacted them direct.  I think they are charging me for Pats to Swampy and then from Swampy to HH.  I shall have to get onto them again.  Thanks for the heads up.  Also I need to get to the new terminal in Pats.  For all that I would still give the ferry a go.  I am on my own so the fare difference is not that important to me but time is and I would like the experience.  Fortunately I have good sea legs!

5 hours ago, slapout said:

I had both eyes done (2 weeks apart) in CM total cost /79, 000 baht. The doctor I chose after being examined by 3 others who seemed to think they were doing you a favor allowing you in to see them is considered one of the best and he convienced me he is.

 

I put it off so long my sight was where I was a danger behind the wheel

And how did it go?

43 minutes ago, siam2007 said:

 

 

it is 387 - If you don't believe it, just go to the Norther Bus station and inquire yourself.

 

in Malaysia, the ferry (speedboat) between Langkawi in Penang costs 500 THB per PAX, and it is almost exactly the same distance.

Nuff said! Thai greed will guarantee another business failure

Bell site quoted me 784 BHT one way  earlier today.  So do I go on what you say or what they quoted me?

35 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Yes.... and with their kerb crawling and non-signalled sudden stops and lane changes, lets see how that goes.

So a bit like the huge MTT buses and cabs that clog up the roads now then! 

Also I can wait up to an hour to get a bus that I often have to stand up in, after which I have an 800 meter walk to get home.  Yes, the system is really great in OZ.

Bell site states about 790Bht Pats to HH.  But you have to pay to get to the station and the trip is 5hrs - at least.  The ferry seems a good option to me.

Baht Buses are the best.  The system works, is cheap and I love them.  Wish we had them in OZ,

I agree with the posts above.  Firstly, I would not panic as getting visas  and work permits means they will need your passport.  But they can not hold your passport beyond this requirement.  The passport is not yours but belongs to the country of issue.  If you have a problem I would let them know you have to have it back.  If they try to keep it you should not be working for them.  Talk to your embassy and if necessary the police but I am sure you won't need to go to that level.  Get two copies of the passport and any stamped pages before you hand it over.  Keep one set on you and the other at your accommodation as a back up.

I also never thought I would like a small cruiser, or any cruiser for that matter.  Then I had a go on a Suzuki C50 800 and changed my mind in the first hour.  I can't believe how comfortable it is and how easy to ride.  I love the cleanliness  of the shaft drive and most of all I loved the price.  In OZ the HD crew look down on the HD 500 but I really like the look of it.  The price is also good for what you get.  There is a definite move to the smaller cruisers and I, for one, can recommend them as a convert.  I agree though that importing into Thailand might just not be worth the hassle.

I attach a pic of my new toy.  Not a scratch on her and with 11k on the clock  only cost me 75k Bht  in OZ.  came with side leather bags which are not attached.

I also really like the Triumphs but can't afford one.

14 hours ago, mrfill said:

Here's the problem..

 

 

No problem at all.  No worse than carrying a fridge or five family members.  Oh! I see it now - the problem is the lack of helmets!

The article states the animal has been placed a in a protected reserve.

1 minute ago, berybert said:

I made a few of the posts. I have no hate of fat people. Do you agree that people should pay more for having extra baggage if it is in a suitcase, but its no problem if it's wrapped around their body.

The point is that I have no problem charging for weight and If comments confined themselves to that concept, then I think most would agree.  However, by taking about fat people or fatties  etc  then peoples lifestyle or medical condition comes into play which personalises the argument.  I think it would be reasonable to say "our fares are based on a "such and such" weight and those above that weight pay more and those below pay less.  It doesn't need to say if you are fat then you should pay more.  After all, should my wife who carries fat as a result of a medical condition, but still only weighs 70k,  pay extra compared to my son who is well over the 100k but is  toned?

2 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

I'd like to read the source if you would link it please.

http://outbreaknewstoday.com/thailand-mosquito-borne-diseases-the-first-10-months-of-2015-2015/

Quoting B of E