Sigur ros

Well said.

Lets not forget Toxin wanted to tell the Burmese what they did wrong internally, but if anyone metioned the south he was going to take his spade and bucket and go home. What a f$%^ing infant.

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You are out of date, leftover socialist! Malaysian and Indonesian leaders yesterday raised the issue of the unrest in the deep South of Thailand. Thaksin remained seated and he has explained the situation to regional counterparts. Thaksin is the first leader to use soft approach Burmese govt, he has never told that Burmese did wrong. Be more mature and substantial,bro- you're a lot older than me

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Fair enough Sieg Heil Ros.

I WAS working, so research time was limited. Alot older? why? are you 12? I'm 29. That soft approach is really working now isn't it?

Maybe Toxin is in league with the Burmese Junta? Just moved his paper business there now didn't he? Here's some more reason why they're mates and not interested in Burma's human rights.

Thailand: End Crackdown on Burmese Fleeing Abuses

Thai Government Policy Puts Thousands of Burmese at Risk

(New York, February 25, 2004)— Thailand must end its crackdown on Burmese fleeing rights abuses in their military-ruled homeland, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

The report, Out of Sight, Out of Mind: Thai Policy toward Burmese Refugees and Migrants, documents Thailand’s repression of refugees, asylum seekers, and migrant workers from Burma. The Thai government is arresting and intimidating Burmese political activists living in Bangkok and along the Thai-Burmese border, harassing Burmese human rights and humanitarian groups, and deporting Burmese refugees, asylum seekers and others with a genuine fear of persecution in Burma.

The Thai government last month suspended screening of new refugee applicants from Burma by the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). The decision—part of an apparent government effort to forge friendships with Burma’s military rulers—has suddenly thrown thousands of Burmese asylum seekers into legal and practical limbo. Refugee assistance agencies and human rights groups have been flooded with calls and visits by Burmese asylum seekers asking where to turn for protection.

“Thailand shouldn’t be toughening its stance towards Burmese refugees when there has been no improvement in the abysmal conditions causing them to flee Burma,” said Brad Adams, executive director of Human Rights Watch’s Asia division. “Thailand should not allow commercial or diplomatic interests to interfere with the ability of Burmese to seek safety in Thailand.”

Ongoing abuses in Burma include forced labor, arrests for peaceful expression of political views, rape of ethnic minority women and children by government soldiers, conscription of child soldiers, and forced relocation of villages, Human Rights Watch said. Sporadic fighting continues in the border areas, despite recent discussions between Rangoon and one of the main rebel factions, the Karen National Union.

When—and if—screening of new Burmese asylum applications resumes, the Thai government will likely take on this crucial task. Because Thailand narrowly restricts its protection and assistance to “people fleeing fighting,” the government may start rejecting Burmese exiles and asylum seekers who are fleeing persecution for their pro-democracy activities in Burma. Those who are rejected would be classified as illegal immigrants and face the risk of being deported to Burma.

The Thai government announced plans last July to send all 4,000 Burmese refugees and asylum seekers living in Bangkok and other urban areas to border camps, despite the fact that many are fearful for their security because of cross-border violence as well as political and ethnic conflicts within the camps.

Thai authorities have also launched a fresh campaign to round up and deport thousands of Burmese migrant workers back to Burma. Many of the estimated one million Burmese migrant workers in Thailand fled their homeland for a mixture of political and economic reasons, and could face serious reprisals from the Burmese authorities if forced to return, Human Rights Watch said.

Thailand regularly expels as many as 10,000 Burmese migrants a month in “informal deportations” to Burma. While many are able to bribe their way back into Thailand, others have faced persecution or other ill-treatment by Burmese government soldiers and intelligence officials, and by some of the other ethnic-based armed groups operating along the border.

Under an agreement between the Thai government and Burma’s ruling State Peace and Development Council, Thailand also deports 400 “illegal” Burmese each month from the Immigration Detention Center in Bangkok to Burma—directly into a holding center operated by Burmese military intelligence. Those whom the UNHCR has recognized as refugees or asylum seekers are supposed to identify themselves as such at the detention center in order to avoid deportation, but human rights workers fear that many people fall through the cracks.

“Burmese refugees who support themselves as migrant workers in Thailand undoubtedly get caught up in these police sweeps,” said Adams. “Among those deported, many will face severe persecution once back in Burma. The Thai government’s crackdown puts the lives of many Burmese at risk.”

Human Rights Watch noted that under customary international law, the Thai government has an obligation not to return anyone to a country where his or her life or freedom is at risk.

“Thailand must not forcibly return any Burmese who may have a claim to refugee status,” Adams said. “Rather than expelling Burmese, sealing the border and refusing to protect new refugees, the Thai government should ensure that the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees is able to identify and protect those who have a fear of persecution in Burma.”

Thailand and the United States reached an agreement in January to resettle at least 4,000 of the 140,000 Burmese refugees in Thailand to the United States. Human Rights Watch said that this resettlement should help to improve the situation, so long as Thailand does not implement the agreement with the intention of making it harder for Burmese democracy activists to pursue their cause.

“While this agreement is welcome in principle, the U.S. government should make sure that Thailand does not now declare the refugee problem ‘solved,’ seal the border to new asylum seekers from Burma, and deepen its crackdown on undocumented Burmese migrants,” said Adams. “Those Burmese who choose not to resettle abroad should not be pressured or forced to return to Burma.”

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Too long and loads of ballocks, leftover socialist . So far it doesnt say that Thaksin wanted to tell the Burmese what they did wrong.

Well said.

Lets not forget Toxin wanted to tell the Burmese what they did wrong internally, but if anyone metioned the south he was going to take his spade and bucket and go home. What a f$%^ing infant.

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You are out of date, leftover socialist! Malaysian and Indonesian leaders yesterday raised the issue of the unrest in the deep South of Thailand. Thaksin remained seated and he has explained the situation to regional counterparts. Thaksin is the first leader to use soft approach Burmese govt, he has never told that Burmese did wrong. Be more mature and substantial,bro- you're a lot older than me

QUOTE(Covertjay @ 2004-11-29 16:02:53)

!

A fox news alert....................

Yep, I'm being exploited by terrorists!

Enlighten me o Sigur.......

I await your next republican fortune cookie..............

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Another pure nonsense

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Everybody is being told what others want us to hear. This goes for politics, religion and here on this forum. The problem is that none of us know the absolute truth. We have not lived in the shoes of those in the south. Not in Muslim shoes or Thai shoes.

The large majority of people cannot even sort out their own personal problems in Life, let alone the problems of southern Thailand.

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Exactly right Ravisher!

However, this leftover socialist has tried to criticize and interfere my own country. I could not just watch and let this guy blame my nation alone with limited information.

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We ALL have limited information Sigur Ros, and it is exactly for that reason we have so many problems in the world. Lack of true information leads to lack of true understanding.

All human beings have similar faculties of logic, but without proper information and truth we cannot come to true and proper logical conclusions. Unfortunately we tend to believe what we see, read or hear from people of so-called 'authority'. We never get the 'whole' truth, therefore all our judgements are based on what we 'think' we 'know' and not on the truth itself. As I see it, the biggest contributor of misinformation and lack of truth are religion and politics. Religion was initially contrived to control human animals. To stop them waring among themselves and an attemp to make them behave more civilized. Nothing is more frightening to the human being than a force and power that cannot be seen or touched. Something that can strike you dead, or harm and torture you with fire even after you are dead. This kept multitudes of people under control. It also made the priests and founders of religions extremely rich and powerful, as they are to this very day. Now while these religions flourished in isolation of each other all was fine... once they began to interact with each other the problems began... and even now they continue... The different religious believers cannot understand that they are believing in a lie... they cannot understand that believers of other religions are also believing in lies... Exactly the same pricipal is happening in politics... lies, lies and more lies... leading to nobody understanding the Truth.

I look at the recent election in the USA. I find it incredulous that these (ONLY) two candidates were the best they could find to run the most powerful nation on earth. These two... a muppet and a cowboy. It must be obvious to even the most naive of us, that something is absolutely wrong here.

I observed after 911 a Muslim leader ranting like a maniac against America... show on American TV news and blasting the 'extremists'... Then I watched the memorial service... and a man of the cloth ranting and quoting, "And David went forth and smote down his enemies!" Sorry, but I see no difference in the two "extremists".

Until there is a Uninted World... with one True religion based on philosophy and one political system based on Truth, there will be not end to the past and present state of affairs.

Sorry this is so long... but I felt a need to say it.

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It's so long but its worth reading,Ravisher

If this is a recurring experience for you.  Then perhaps you should look at yourself.

As they say, why you point a finger outward there are always 3 fingers pointing at yourself.  Why is it that you attract the Thai women that you do? 

Or do you discriminate against a whole race due your experiences. which are based on who you are as well.

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Padma, I suspect that no matter what I answer you will not be happy with negative generalizations about any group.

Fingers pointing back to myself? Why I attract the women I do? What has that got to do with anything? What difference does it make if I am at fault for attracting someone with a poorly developed sense of self to the argument that there are people with a poorly developed sense of self? If I am attracting a certain type, then you agree with me that there is this type - this type exists.

I have no problem with discriminating based on experiences. That's called pattern recognition, and is the basis of how all of us think. Unavoidable. Not ALL thais have underdeveloped egos. Duh. Many do - more so than the west. My fault?

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Take it easy Falang Pan. ( just tested)

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Everybody is being told what others want us to hear. This goes for politics, religion and here on this forum. The problem is that none of us know the absolute truth. We have not lived in the shoes of those in the south. Not in Muslim shoes or Thai shoes.

The large majority of people cannot even sort out their own personal problems in Life, let alone the problems of southern Thailand.

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Exactly right Ravisher!

However, this leftover socialist has tried to criticize and interfere my own country. I could not just watch and let this guy blame my nation alone with limited information.

Dude, the army, police, and Taksin admitted they died! What further clarification do you need ? Dental records?

I think they would settle for not being grenaded in a mosque over independence at the moment, but that doesn't mean they don't want it.

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I hate to say this. You have been exploited by insurgents. I really want to educate you about situation in the deep South, but not here. Sorry!

I've said it before but it bears repeating.  Many Thai girls don't act with integrity because there is no integrity.  As westerners we take for granted that anybody who can say the word "I" has a self.  But the ego in this culture doesn't get a chance to develop.  What gets developed is the public exterior persona, but there is no corresponding interior persona.  There is no there there. 

We take for granted that a person has some sort of unified interiority.  A self.  It is so hard to get it that in many cases, there is no there there.  No single interior unifying process who exists from day to day body capable of keeping a promise.  It is a very momentary, immediate self, not capable of what in the west we term integrity.  That is a higher level of cognition that this culture does not emphasise or develop.  This is very foreign to westerners, and we think that our girl is lying or foolish or a cheat etc.  Ya, she is, but she couldn't change if she wanted to.  There is no "she" to change.  All she has is her immediate experience, with no unifying person behind the mask to follow through on any promise to change.

An ego is not a form of disease, but one level of cognition that integrates our experiences and our actions.  The reason we complain that Thais act without integrity is not because of differing cultural values, it is because in many cases, the Thai person doesn't have integrity.  Doesn't even have a developed ego.

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Just another bark

I explained the restive south AND the nuances of modern socialism.

So what further clarification, other than on tenses and grammar, do you require?

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It's from open source. I don't consider it as clarification! one question, do you really believe that people in the deep South of Thailand want independence?

Can you please provide more substantial information? It's totally " DOUBT" what you mentioned for.

Intriguing grammar.........No doubt...........READ!

Suffocation........ From the 'Australian'

Muslim deaths hit region's war on terror

01nov04

SOUTHEAST Asia took a giant and dangerous step backwards in the war against terror last week with the Thai Government's catastrophic overreaction to the riots in Narathiwat province in Thailand's Muslim south.

The police crackdown last Monday resulted in more than 80 deaths, including scores of protesters who were loaded into trucks, piled on top of each other and left to suffocate. This has transformed a serious problem into a disaster, and guaranteed a new surge of violence and terrorist recruiting throughout the region.

The Narathiwat killings will become the "trauma of choice" for Thai Muslim jihadis, and feed into the global jihad movement as another example of the persecution of Muslims. But even before these killings, the regional terror picture was becoming increasingly complex and threatening.

The alienation of southern Thai Muslims is now much more likely to be absorbed into the regional terrorist movement. They will feel much more angry, the radical leaders will welcome outside resources and the hard men of Jemaah Islamiah will move in.

Modern Socialists believe in an extention of freedom to totally cover freedom of opportunity in education and health. Why else do we pay taxes? Tax breaks for Enron?

Opportunity NOT handouts.

Then life really WOULD be a level playing field.

Western freedom would the be more than the limited freedom of capital to exploit.

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You get confused, socialist. Plz read my post again and then u will learn what I have asked for.

By the way, are you still staying in Thailand?

Spot on, meadish !

Well...I am not surprised to read such words from a bigot like sigur ros.

Jem

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It's also normal. Someone like you loves to bark all day long.

Sigur ros

Be shot up in a place of worship? Have the profits from all of value in your province go only to BKK?

Hows the weather in La-La-land?

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Can you please provide more substantial information? It's totally " DOUBT" what you mentioned for.

"Thai people in the Southernmost provinces have had freedom."

Freedom to what? Suffocate? Be shot up in a place of worship? Have the profits from all of value in your province go only to BKK?

Hows the weather in La-La-land?

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Socialist so tell me the meaning of freedom that you are really starving for. Then I can answer you.

But if you receive one thing and then you want more and more.. never enough. I dont think it's freedom.

http://ranong.info/bees.htm if you'd like to look at them

J

Your url does not appear to exist!!

PS I thought birds prefered to build their own nests!

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It does exist

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It is unfortunate to judge people's ability or character on the basis of their looks.

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Meandish_bitterball

Dont be sad.

I've been in Thailand for 5 years and have a degree in Asian Politics. The 1988 conflict was over Gen. Chavalit's wife landgrab that was argued as a border demarcation conflict by the Thais, and some communist Lao insurgents trying to make contact with Issarn and Thai communists. I was told this by a former military attache to an embassy who is more privy to good information than you or I.

He fooled you

Ya Mo's defense of Korat in the late 19th century was a definate Lao aided Issarn rebellion against Bangkok. Locals as well as Laotians were in the army she helped to get drunk and murder.

It is an historical fact that in revenge for this, Vientiane in the late 19th century was burnt to the ground by the future Rama I and the Emerald Buddha was taken and half the population of the city murdered. That's when the Lao king asked for French assistance.

I was talking about the late 19th century, not modern times.

What is your point?

No I'm worse than that I'm a socialist. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that Sufism is a doctrine of love, not hate, don't write off a whole religion. It's just a forum.... chill out man.

Listen! the muslims I talked to said " they believed things in heaven after killing infidels."

"How deep? How hidden? Would you care to enlighten us?"

I want to know about the hidden agenda too! Maybe they just want back their independence that they had 100 years ago. Everybody wants freedom. Regardless of religion. Doin't feed into the cycle of hate, and have a nice day!

Thai people in the Southernmost provinces have had freedom.

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.

The issue? They want their freedom back. Considering they were independent 100 years ago, I don't think that's naive. If the Thai's don't do something constructive it will be to this place what East Timor was for the Indonesians.

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Excuse me? I should be here earlier after getting down to my AOR with my party. How come you think the situation in the deep South will be like in East Timor? My questions- Do you know what exactly happened in East Timor years ago? Did you see situation in East Timor yourself?- I guess you just read or heard from open sources.

Thank you for the advice. You still have not replied to my question. I am starting to suspect you are a Thai Rak Thai politician.

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You really want my answer?

My answer is " sorry, it's security reason" SO?

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My suspicion has now become a near-certainty.

I personally belong to the Farang Rak Thai party, and we will win the next election, when the Thai you say you love have stopped loving you back because you failed to create peace in the South and destroyed the good name of your country by being dishonest with the facts in the War on Drugs and covering up the outbreaks of Bird Flu.

The good news for you, Khun Sigur Ros, being the losing faction in the next election, is that in the Farang Rak Thai party, we really believe in freedom of speech, and we invite everybody, including you, to have their opinion. Yes, even ผีคอมมิวนิสต์ !

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I bet you! Thai Rak Thai party will never loose in the next election mate. You know why meandish bitterball???

I want the US to get involved down their, planes, tanks, etc will quiet em down

And when the King goes who will control Taksin? What if bombs go off in Phuket and BKK too? There's an election on the way too.

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Be careful your mouth, socialist! I repeat " LIBERTY doesn't mean freedom"

Thank you for the advice. You still have not replied to my question. I am starting to suspect you are a Thai Rak Thai politician.

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You really want my answer?

My answer is " sorry, it's security reason" SO?

Read My Lips...........

NO TROOPS.

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So you disagree with the Queen?If so, be careful your Lips Socialist! This is THAILAND not your country.

Yes, one comment: SO? Plenty of farang men come to live in Thailand simply because they had a shit status in their home countries for one reason or another.

People will try to improve their status wherever they are. Natural behaviour.

Are you one of them too?

Do you visit Pattani often?

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You should visit once and stay there for two weeks at least. You will see something different from what you heard.

Even the Queen said it was way out of  control down there on TV last night.

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Dear Covertjay my friend,

Wrong information. The Queen didn't say like that. Find decent English translator in order to review her speech, then tell you what exact point she tried to say.

"Thanks for unsubstantial history lesson  but how long have you been in Thailand? Sorry the story (i wont call history) in 1988 isn't about insurgents but about no man land thing."

I've been in Thailand for 5 years and have a degree in Asian Politics. The 1988 conflict was over Gen. Chavalit's wife landgrab that was argued as a border demarcation conflict by the Thais, and some communist Lao insurgents trying to make contact with Issarn and Thai communists. I was told this by a former military attache to an embassy who is more privy to good information than you or I.

"There were no rebellions against Thailand in Issarn, the Vientiane got a freedom from France and the Laos rebels fight against their own government not Thai governement. "

Ya Mo's defense of Korat in the late 19th century was a definate Lao aided Issarn rebellion against Bangkok. Locals as well as Laotians were in the army she helped to get drunk and murder.

It is an historical fact that in revenge for this, Vientiane in the late 19th century was burnt to the ground by the future Rama I and the Emerald Buddha was taken and half the population of the city murdered. That's when the Lao king asked for French assistance.

I was talking about the late 19th century, not modern times.

"Are you Muslim or what, Covertjay?"

No I'm worse than that I'm a socialist. If you knew anything about Islam you would know that Sufism is a doctrine of love, not hate, don't write off a whole religion. It's just a forum.... chill out man.

"How deep? How hidden? Would you care to enlighten us?"

I want to know about the hidden agenda too! Maybe they just want back their independence that they had 100 years ago. Everybody wants freedom. Regardless of religion. Doin't feed into the cycle of hate, and have a nice day!

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My advise, go back to school and learn Thai- so you WILL NOT obtain wrong information. Then you will get more substantial details and something deeper. So far you will know that the majority of population in the deep South DO NOT want independence or autonomy. It's just the opportunists are trying to exploit the underlying conditions to gain their interests. By the way, It's considered as rude if a guess try to give advise and opinion to his host. I dont know if you will get arrested (at least) or may be go to jail if Thai government see this topic. Covertjay my friend! "LIBERTY doesn't mean freedom!"