werbs

maybe a little bit old, but since people still talk about PAD and peaceful demonstration

hows this for peaceful?

video link:

video link 2:

from youtube, the second video was orginally from thai tv news

some people on here will watch that and say it is not PAD but people infiltrating the PAD

You spout things that aren't based on facts.

Let's take the quick correction so we can see how you treat the truth:

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

- The car didn't contain a bomb. The 'explosion' like cloud happened after several minutes of the whole car being on fire. Most likely the gastank overcooking. (It wasn't very much of an explosion either, just very much a gas-tank having it's content released via the safetyvalve due to overpressue. Seen it up close in a restaurant fire some (14) years ago. A mushroom-cloud shot up 4-5 meters into the air and me and another guy stood unharmed just 2 meters away from the tank, at the time trying to put out the general fire in the kitchen-area. We left in haste after that.)

- The police shouldn't react like a teased cobra, that is when their training should set them apart from random thugs. I'm concerned you, as a former police officer, doesn't reflect upon that.

If I put my hand in the fire I will get burned, if i get too close to a fire there is a chance i will get burned. if i go home when i see the fire start then i wont get burned. simple really.

As for one of the guys who allegedly had his leg blown off, there is video footage of him a few days before with surprise surprise only one leg.

the car did contain explosives, do yourself a favour and goand look at the car, i have already mentioned where it is parked and the damage is in no way consistent with a fire or a fuel explosion, the damage is consistent with explosives. (I suppose nobody was carrying home made incendiary devices either)

at no point did i say the police reacted like a teased cobra, another one who seems to not be able to understand english. i said if you tease a cobra then expect to be bitten, i never said who the cobra was, that comment was in fact aimed at the government rather than at individual police officers (who in my opinion have shown great restraint throughout all this)

the fact that people have died as a result of the PAD not leading a peaceful protest leading to the events in october seems to be missed by many, if in fact the whole protest had been peaceful from the PAD i am sure the events in october would not have happened

just to make this clear I am not a government supporter, to be honest i do not care who governs here, I am not pro police either, but because of their actions i am 100% against the PADwith their pathetic brainwashing tactics, I am more suprisedto read expats on here denying facts about their tactics and defending these criminals. its clear where you anti police stance comes from, maybe you have a criminal past yourself

Your post is trite and repeats the same BS again.

If you put your hand in the fire you will get burnt? That is the best you can come up with?

How about 'if I cook egg and the stove explodes and rips my arm off...' - no-one had any reason to assume the Police would attack the protesters with lethal weapons without warning. (Military grade teargas grenades with RDX is hardly non-lethal/less-lethal anymore.)

I should go and take a look at the car? I'm sure you did it?

But through the magic of film-cameras and handy DV-cams one doesn't have to actually, physically, walk to the car while it was burning. One could observe the events as they happened.

I'm sure you will get around and discover these inventions soon enough.

No, people didn't die from the protest being 'non peaceful' (where is the line drawn when you have thugs attacking you?), they died from a protest being mismanaged and incompetent and revengeful police officers not being able to have a cool head. Severely failing in their line of duty.

And thanks for implying I would have a criminal past just because I am able to point out errors done by the police. If you knew anything about my family you would know my reflection is based on experience and contact of professional police officers and soldiers. Not thugs with a badge.

Your attack is just sad.

feel free to send me a PM and we can discuss this face to face if you would rather do it that way.

we can then walk around and meet all these peaceful protesters.

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

I think some of you guys need to make an effort to actually go and see these criminals in action rather thatn just read reports. i have been to see it with my own eyes, I also see it when collecting daughter from school who is unfortunate enough to attend school near the criminals camp. I have lost count of the numebr of days schooling she has had to miss this year because the school is closed because the criminals decide on another futile demonstration.

If anyone would like me to take them to the PAD strongholds and point out the criminals weilding arms then please PM me and i will meet you there and show you, hey I will even show you the jeep that was carrying explosives and blew up (lets remember the family of the victim here admitted he was ex police who had been a supporter of PAD for 2 years and was knowingly carrying explosives)

Help me out with this ..... "weapons of one sort or another"? Were they shotguns and LETHAL military tear-gas launchers?

I get it .. you keep your child in a school near ASTV.

Now ... help me out with the "jeep carrying explosives" .. that lie was beaten down ages ago!

do you assume that all weapons must be shotguns or lethal weapons, tell you what, why dont I beat you over the head a few times with a baseball bat and then you can explain to me that its not a weapon. your naivity is astounding sometimes

My daughter does not go to school near ASTV, she goes to school near government house

the car bomb, who was this beat down by? The PAD and its supporters?

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

I think some of you guys need to make an effort to actually go and see these criminals in action rather thatn just read reports. i have been to see it with my own eyes, I also see it when collecting daughter from school who is unfortunate enough to attend school near the criminals camp. I have lost count of the numebr of days schooling she has had to miss this year because the school is closed because the criminals decide on another futile demonstration.

If anyone would like me to take them to the PAD strongholds and point out the criminals weilding arms then please PM me and i will meet you there and show you, hey I will even show you the jeep that was carrying explosives and blew up (lets remember the family of the victim here admitted he was ex police who had been a supporter of PAD for 2 years and was knowingly carrying explosives)

You must be lying.

I saw the same with my eyes, and every PAD supporter call me a lier. So I am calling you one too.

PAD are peaceful unarmed angles sent by god to remove corrupted dictators for the common good of Thai people.

yeah maybe I am colour blind and they were all really wearing red shirts

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

< additional rehashing of old, disproven points regarding Oct 7 snipped >

If this post is in reference to the PAD guards searching possessions of others at the airport, are you aware that security personnel of all sorts, who may be armed in some fashion themselves, often conduct searches of others at venues and occasions where searching for weapons is conducted?

do me a favour mate and actually read what is written and what it is in response to, I am not referring to the airport. If people in here actually made more of an effort to read what is written and respond to that, rather than respond to what they want you to have written then this thread could actually be a decent debate.

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

I think some of you guys need to make an effort to actually go and see these criminals in action rather thatn just read reports. i have been to see it with my own eyes, I also see it when collecting daughter from school who is unfortunate enough to attend school near the criminals camp. I have lost count of the numebr of days schooling she has had to miss this year because the school is closed because the criminals decide on another futile demonstration.

If anyone would like me to take them to the PAD strongholds and point out the criminals weilding arms then please PM me and i will meet you there and show you, hey I will even show you the jeep that was carrying explosives and blew up (lets remember the family of the victim here admitted he was ex police who had been a supporter of PAD for 2 years and was knowingly carrying explosives)

You can post your pictures here. That's allowed.

I am not interested in pictures sunbeam, you still wouldnt believe it.

Feel free to PM me and we can arrange to walk down there together

i suppose all PAD guards I personally saw outside ASTV all carrying weapons of one sort or another were outsiders who infiltrated ASTV

I think some of you guys need to make an effort to actually go and see these criminals in action rather thatn just read reports. i have been to see it with my own eyes, I also see it when collecting daughter from school who is unfortunate enough to attend school near the criminals camp. I have lost count of the numebr of days schooling she has had to miss this year because the school is closed because the criminals decide on another futile demonstration.

If anyone would like me to take them to the PAD strongholds and point out the criminals weilding arms then please PM me and i will meet you there and show you, hey I will even show you the jeep that was carrying explosives and blew up (lets remember the family of the victim here admitted he was ex police who had been a supporter of PAD for 2 years and was knowingly carrying explosives)

the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

The fact remains that PAD is only a natural response to the government that is not working for the people or the country but for Thaksin.

All the govt has to do is stop supporting Thaksin and PAD will pack up and leave them alone.

so you are saying only thaksin is the problem for the PAD, if the government no longer support him PAD will pack up, and then the government will be free to continue with corruption so long as they dont support thaksin while they do it

Is it really that dangerous to try and bring some nasty people to justice here? Are they that well protected?

Are the foreign crooks really that powerful? What is their major way of making moneys? ( all drugs I guess)

Should we just leave it? ( something very difficult to do surely)

Any suggestions please? ( sensible ones please- last time I posted my thread desended into childish pro- drugs, anti- drugs childish name calling bash )

Thanking you

Even if its tempting to go vigilante I would lay off the 'crooks'.

If they're doing any kind of 'business' that make serious money you can be sure they have police protection.

The best known example is probably Koh Samui a few years back where some brit and scandinavian biker\mafia types had pretty much taken over the entire island making money of extortion, drugs and real estate scamming. These guys had the biggest houses on the entire island and were only brought to court from a special bangkok task force. I would think especially local police outside bangkok can be very easily bought off considering they have to buy their guns and equipment themselves = buy the stuff for a new policeman and you 'own' him. Goes well with the tradition of master and servant in Thailand.

So yeah, dont try to bring these guys in yourself!

LOL, obviously you havent a clue.

feel free to explain

Please leave the place out of this forum. Mentioning "dead" in relation to the place is even worst. Watch what you are typing. I am sure you don't mean any harm, but it may be misunderstood by some. be on the save side.

Meaning is (but english is bad and maybe missleading) they are ready to risk their life to protect the monarchy or the royal family and mention that all the time.

well tell them to feel free to go to the border with cambodia and protect thailand there. i fail to see what danger the monarchy is in that they need protecting by a group of criminals. the army are there to protect the country and the monarchy

PAD vehicles not allowed to use expressway without paying fees

As I have said before, I am not necessarily anti PAD, but the fact remains that they are the chief culprits in engendering a state of near anarchy in Thailand.

Tens of thousand take over government buildings, prevent parliament from sitting, and amongst other lawless actions, they now hijack buses.

The police and army stand largely impotent to stop them.

But can they drive their hi-jacked buses down the tollway?

No way - the doughty expressway officials stand by their 'guns' and refuse to let them pass until they pay the 100 Baht tolls.

The "people's army" cannot advance until the tolls are paid.

Monty Python and Blackadder combined couldn't make this up

Joe, sorry again but your premise that attacking people with lethal weapons is an acceptable way to disperse a crowd (that had been given no legal order to disperse) is asinine!

If you want a link that would be good reading for you and quotes Thailand's most respected and independent FORENSICS EXPERT as well as including quotes from a very important person in Thailand you should look at this.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories/tops...s.php?id=131399

the police did not fire a lethal weapon into the crowd, they fired tear gas which is a none lethal weapon. if they fired their guns into the crowd then you would be spot on. the fact that some tear gas canisters caused death does not then make tear gas a lethal weapon.

since you like to defend the criminals at all costs, maybe you would like to explain to me about the four poliemen who were shot on this day in october, or the policeman stabbed with fence post. The police are allowed to defend themselves, even letahl force is reasonable in certain circumstances, in my opinion the police were very lenient on that day

You spout things that aren't based on facts.

Let's take the quick correction so we can see how you treat the truth:

- The young girl killed by the teargas grenade was unarmed. Probably was so several of the others with maimed legs and feet, or atleast one couldn't see any weapons from the footage by the news crews.

- The car didn't contain a bomb. The 'explosion' like cloud happened after several minutes of the whole car being on fire. Most likely the gastank overcooking. (It wasn't very much of an explosion either, just very much a gas-tank having it's content released via the safetyvalve due to overpressue. Seen it up close in a restaurant fire some (14) years ago. A mushroom-cloud shot up 4-5 meters into the air and me and another guy stood unharmed just 2 meters away from the tank, at the time trying to put out the general fire in the kitchen-area. We left in haste after that.)

- The police should react like a teased cobra, that is when their training should set them apart from random thugs. I'm concerned you, as a former police officer, doesn't reflect upon that.

If I put my hand in the fire I will get burned, if i get too close to a fire there is a chance i will get burned. if i go home when i see the fire start then i wont get burned. simple really.

As for one of the guys who allegedly had his leg blown off, there is video footage of him a few days before with surprise surprise only one leg.

the car did contain explosives, do yourself a favour and goand look at the car, i have already mentioned where it is parked and the damage is in no way consistent with a fire or a fuel explosion, the damage is consistent with explosives. (I suppose nobody was carrying home made incendiary devices either)

at no point did i say the police reacted like a teased cobra, another one who seems to not be able to understand english. i said if you tease a cobra then expect to be bitten, i never said who the cobra was, that comment was in fact aimed at the government rather than at individual police officers (who in my opinion have shown great restraint throughout all this)

the fact that people have died as a result of the PAD not leading a peaceful protest leading to the events in october seems to be missed by many, if in fact the whole protest had been peaceful from the PAD i am sure the events in october would not have happened

just to make this clear I am not a government supporter, to be honest i do not care who governs here, I am not pro police either, but because of their actions i am 100% against the PADwith their pathetic brainwashing tactics, I am more suprisedto read expats on here denying facts about their tactics and defending these criminals. its clear where you anti police stance comes from, maybe you have a criminal past yourself

But no convictions against the PAD and no attempt to break up their trespass and crimnal activities

You claimed that there had been "no attempt to break up their trespass". I pointed out that this was in fact not correct :-

Strangely you seem to have overlooked the mass-attack, with explosive gas-grenades, by the border-police against the PAD, at the beginning of last month ? Some 500 people injured/maimed/hospitalised ?? Ring any bells ???

Do you mean when the police quite rightly moved an illegal obstruction whos aim was purely to obstruct the legal sitting of parlaiment?

It would appear that you take one side of the propoganda while I see it as it is. The only bad thing here is that they don't give a 5 minute warning to the crooks trespassing at government house before launching tear gas into there and dispersing these criminals

Instead of conceding your mistaken claim, that there had been no attempt, you then start instead to argue that the attempt had been justified, which is a completely different point.

I agree with you that it was wrong of the border-police, not to give any warning, before firing explosive tear-gas rounds at a largely-unarmed crowd of civilians.

Do you actually read things before you respond to them? Try it and it will save me having to explain things which are clear to everyone who reads properley.

There has been no attempt to move people from government house, there was however action to remove criminals from outside parliament, do you realsie there are two site we are talking about here.

secondly at no point did I say the police were wrong to not give a warning outside parliament, I stated they should give a warning to the criminals inside government house before they disperse them with tear gas. two different sites. In my opinion no warning was needed outside parliament and no warning was given.

if you want to lock horns with me then feel free, however try nd stick to what i have actually written rather than what you would like me to have written, you are displaying all the signs of lazy debate in the hope that someone will believe you, funnily enough just like the criminals you support, however every time you choose to misquote me I will spring up and bite you on the *rse and make you look foolish

Regarding the Bus incident. How likely do you think it is that 6 men "hijacked" a whole bus using a shotgun and that they belonged to the PAD? Far easier to pile into a taxi!

However, there are groups like the UDD that use tactics like this! Disinformation is common.

Remember the 2 guys on the motorcycle? "Caught" with all kinds of weapons etc the day before the report on the police action of the 7th of Oct and the report on the Gov'ts responsibility ? The case just disappeared apparently .... why? It appears to have been a set-up job! If it were real the Gov't and the Thaksinistas would have kept at the PAD over that in every press conference. They didn't. They knew it was just far too obvious!

So now you think they wanted the bus just for themselves, the buses were used to ferry a number of PAD criminals to various sites, not just used by the few thieves who stole the bus

LOL .. yeah read the whole tread Werbs --- and yes we all noticed you skipping over "The only bad thing". I assume where you come from there is no history of civil disobedience? It is clear that you don't understand what it at play here in Thailand!

I know full well what's going on thanks, as for skipping over things, I didn't skip over it, it is already clear what my thought is on it so no need to go over it again.

I am British, we have had civil disobedience, quite what that has to do with this is beyond me, explain what my nationality has to do with the situation in Thailand. I know you are one of these guys who defends Thailand at all costs but don't be silly now.

Only bad thing?

Where you by any chance one of the coppers laid off for beating up some 'thugs' in the cell?

You seem to have no problem labeling everyone not fitting into your UK-CCTV-fascist-model as criminals and thinking any pain or injury upon them is rightful and a 'good thing'.

If you cannot see an issue with unarmed people getting killed by Police-officers, well...that is it then.

Unarmed. comedy gold you are. Have you ever taken the trouble to go and see these thugs in the flesh? Maybe take a drive down Rama 5 where the jeep is that was packed with explosives and detonated ( yes folks it's actually parked at the side of the road),

As for your comments, I left the police after being stabbed, no doubt in your mind the guy who stabbed me was just misunderstood or I deserved it blah blah blah.

As for the deaths/ injuries, go and find a cobra and poke it with a stick for a few hours, see what happens. If you are part of a mob and ignoring the laws of the land you have no real complaint when it goes pear shaped

Strangely you seem to have overlooked the mass-attack, with explosive gas-grenades, by the border-police against the PAD, at the beginning of last month ? Some 500 people injured/maimed/hospitalised ?? Ring any bells ???

Do you mean when the police quite rightly moved an illegal obstruction whos aim was purely to obstruct the legal sitting of parlaiment?

It would appear that you take one side of the propoganda while I see it as it is. The only bad thing here is that they don't give a 5 minute warning to the crooks trespassing at government house before launching tear gas into there and dispersing these criminals

LOL .. grasping at straws there! You seem to fail to notice the wide spread condemnation of the October 7th attacks. "The only bad thing", indeed, the loss of life etc is not a bad thing at all! . BTW --- Government House is not where parliament sits.

I know parliament doesn't sit at government house, maybe that's why the blockade and the resulting tear gas was at parliament. Read the thread sweety then come in and try again

(BangkokPost.com) - A number of public buses belonging to the Bangkok Mass Transit Authority (BMTA) had been seized by the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) to aid the group in moving protesters between rally points in the capital.

BMTA Director Pinate Puapatanakul said buses running in route numbers 3, 53, 56 and 515 were seized. Policemen were able to facilitate the return of a route 53 bus so far.

Police from Nanglerng station apprehended six PAD guards close to the Royal Thai Survey Department road intersection after the latter seized the bus. The bus's fare collector said the guards had stepped on board and told the driver to stop the bus, before chasing out all the passengers and taking the vehicle's control. Police intercepted the bus, firing into and bursting the front tires to immobilise it. The six men were found with improvised firearms, ammunition and metal rods.

The BMTA had ordered changes in bus routing on several routes to avoid the PAD's rally points. BMTA executives told its traffic planning division to monitor the rally around the clock so changes to bus routing and response to any other problems could be made swiftly.

Is this acceptable to the pro-PAD?

No doubt some will say it is justified. As I have said many times today, they are criminals, no more, no less

Strangely you seem to have overlooked the mass-attack, with explosive gas-grenades, by the border-police against the PAD, at the beginning of last month ? Some 500 people injured/maimed/hospitalised ?? Ring any bells ???

Do you mean when the police quite rightly moved an illegal obstruction whos aim was purely to obstruct the legal sitting of parlaiment?

It would appear that you take one side of the propoganda while I see it as it is. The only bad thing here is that they don't give a 5 minute warning to the crooks trespassing at government house before launching tear gas into there and dispersing these criminals

...

An independent judiciary and the rule of the law are one prerequisite for a working democracy. These don't exist in Thailand. Another thing is free press and free speech - doesn't exist in Thailand. Separation of powers - non-existant. So there we have it, a huge mess, which is the current situation.

...

Yeah, and that's why they've achieved convictions against Thaksin, Thaksin's wife, the former PPP Prime Minister and they're about to get a conviction against the entire PPP.

The PAD are just a bunch of impatient babies. Let the courts do their job...which they're doing.

But no convictions against the PAD and no attempt to break up their trespass and crimnal activities

maybe the PAD had stopped all the buses and trains in the south so nobody could get to bangkok to protest

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter

Sorry... I'll go back and snip that one as well.

And please... take your argument elsewhere and do not clutter up this topic with multiple nested quotes.

Thankyou.

/Edit - another multiple nested quote with off-topic content deleted. If you have issues with moderation of this forum, please take it up privately via PM with any online moderator, not publicly on the forum.

Cool down werbs. Take it easy. This is Thailand.

I'll buy you a drink if we happens to meet up. Scotch is OK by you.

no problem mate, I am not angry or in a mood, just having a good discussion

Actually you imply that with your first response.

By saying they are stuck in the middle you imply they are honest. And thus being neutral.

When it is commonly know the police are quite divided,

depending on which clique their spoils masters are aligned with.

There is no honest AND neutral police because they HAVE chosen sides.

I do not imply that at all, this just shows how wrong some peoples perceptions can be. The point i am making is that in any dispute involving a government and the people then the police are stuck in the middle, I am not saying they dont have political leanings however it is the police that have to deal with the civil unrest, meaning they are stuck in the middle, i hope this clears it up for you.

As for the comment about their spoils masters, I am assuming that you have personally spoken to all these police to conclude this or are you just guestimating, or do you trust 'commonly known' comments down the pub as being fact.

the police are drawn from society to protect society and as such they are human beings with opinions, these opinions should be put to one side whilst policing to ensure fairness (in an ideal world).

Are there any honest police in Thailand? I don't know as I have not met them all, just a handful. some have been ok and some haven't

since my polite respone to cutty sark has been removed then I will ask again, please point out where I say there are honest police in thailand.

For the mods, it is important to leavethese things in so people can get an idea about who supports what principal here. removal and editing of non inflamitory posts is uncalled for and leaves a one sided opinion.

my post has been removed yet cuttysarks has been left in the thread, I really do not see the relevance of his comment but you obviously do, and since he has raised an issue with me then I need to respond to that comment, and thats all I did in the same manner as above.

if however you are saving space from quotes then please explain how my one line managed to push it over the edge as cuttysarks post is still there despite being just one line shorter