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sysmaster
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Posts posted by sysmaster
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No, not yet, it's a bit of a hassle to get to the sparkplugs of a Chevy Ecotec engine, the sparkplugs and the ignition coils are an integrated unit, so I'll leave it up to the workshop to do it, their up for replacement
in a few hunderd KM anyway.
I'll ask them to keep them for inspection...
SM...
Anyway, have taken your spark plugs out for inspection yet? It would be interesting to know what they look like and for how long time they have been exposed to the lubricant./Hans
Hi,Have any of you had a closer look at Flashlube:
http://www.flashlube.com.au/en/valvesaverkit/index.html
?
It looks like a good idea from what is told on their website, of course, but is it actually a good idea to fit it?
I went to a gas installation place to ask, just to be told what a piece of crap it is, but i managed to figure out that they had only tried with 2-stroke oil. The problem, they said, was that it would make the valves and spark plugs dirty.
I think the problem might be that they haven't actually used the proper lubricant. Would this thing be a good thing to use, for a car running on gas, provided that the proper lubricant is used?
/Hans
Good question, maybe you should visit some EU websites on LPG conversions, to read that it is becoming
a bit of a standard over there.
Anyway, the guy's that installed my LPG, added the Flashlube thing automatically.
And told me that I could use the 2-stoke oil for it as an alternative for the original lube.
(when they filled mine up with oil, it did not come in the original bottle...so it might have been 2T already)
About the statement that it would make valves and sparkplugs dirty, possible, but did they set the drip-rate correctly, purpose is that only a tiny amount of oil is added to the airflow, so to much will certainly make things dirty.
Before I had my LPG installation done, I spend a lot of time researching the issue, also because my car has it's own issues with the placement of the gastank (Chevy Zafira, 7 seater, the wrong installation of the gastank would have canceled the 2 extra seats), and adding the Flashlube kit was generally praised in the information I found. (sources: German Opel Zafira forum and German Autogas websites)
But, since Australia are also a highly LPG converted country, I'm sure that you might find a lot of information in AU websites there.
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Hi,
I've been looking around for an interface to use between an ECU and a PC, and have came across the following ECU interfaces: CAN, VPW, PWM, ISO 9141. Are there other interfaces as well? What adapter would fit the largest number of brands/makes/models? Would actually a number of different adapters be required?
/Hans
YES, about each manufacturer has it's own connector, and protocols.
take a look at: http://www.scantool.net/
that wiil put you on the right track.
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Hi,
Have any of you had a closer look at Flashlube:
http://www.flashlube.com.au/en/valvesaverkit/index.html
?
It looks like a good idea from what is told on their website, of course, but is it actually a good idea to fit it?
I went to a gas installation place to ask, just to be told what a piece of crap it is, but i managed to figure out that they had only tried with 2-stroke oil. The problem, they said, was that it would make the valves and spark plugs dirty.
I think the problem might be that they haven't actually used the proper lubricant. Would this thing be a good thing to use, for a car running on gas, provided that the proper lubricant is used?
/Hans
Good question, maybe you should visit some EU websites on LPG conversions, to read that it is becoming
a bit of a standard over there.
Anyway, the guy's that installed my LPG, added the Flashlube thing automatically.
And told me that I could use the 2-stoke oil for it as an alternative for the original lube.
(when they filled mine up with oil, it did not come in the original bottle...so it might have been 2T already)
About the statement that it would make valves and sparkplugs dirty, possible, but did they set the drip-rate correctly, purpose is that only a tiny amount of oil is added to the airflow, so to much will certainly make things dirty.
Before I had my LPG installation done, I spend a lot of time researching the issue, also because my car has it's own issues with the placement of the gastank (Chevy Zafira, 7 seater, the wrong installation of the gastank would have canceled the 2 extra seats), and adding the Flashlube kit was generally praised in the information I found. (sources: German Opel Zafira forum and German Autogas websites)
But, since Australia are also a highly LPG converted country, I'm sure that you might find a lot of information in AU websites there.
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Thanks for simplifying things
Not?
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</RANT>
Alas, under the current scenario, I would still choose NGV over LPG however because fuel is only 40% of the price. (8.5 baht/kg as opposed to about 22 baht).
Um..I paid 11.2Baht/Ltr a few days ago...gone up already has it..bug*er. two years ago I was paying less than 10baht/Ltr.
With all the pro's an con's on LPG...NGV and costs, I made a few calculations to figure out
where the break-even point would be for price rizes in LPG:
These figures are based upon my car, of course different for others.
Tank capacity is what I can put into an empty tank, be it gasoline or LPG.
Gas++ is where the price of gas would have to be to result in a equal to gasoline price/km
based upon the current price of gasoline.
someone else will have to add a column for NGV, since I have no reliable data on that.
The ROI is the money I paid to have the car converted to LPG, the KM value is where
the investment has paid of, based on the price difference in [price/km]
With my millage, this will be within 6 months.
Of course all this is based upon today's prices for LPG and Gasoline, tomorrow will
be different.....
fuel gas gas++ tank cap. 56 43 43 consumption L/100KM 12 16 16 price /liter 40 11.3 30 price full tank 2240 485.9 1290 achievable distance 466 268 268 KM price per KM 4.8 1.8 4.8 ROI 32000 12053.33KM
If I would also calculate the number of hours you have to waste to get a NGV tank filled....
The ROI might look VERY different.
Since filling time for gasoline or LPG are close to equal, I did not add this as a variable, for NGV you would have to take ((average hourly pay)X(fill time X tank runs)) or so.
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clausewitz, thanks for starting this good and timely thread.
Well, it's interesting. Looks like I need to modify my old 95 burner to handle ethanol even if I convert to LPG.
Has anyone heard of the Vogas Sequential Gas Injection system? It's is an advanced system, as opposed to more conventional ones, the biggest difference being "no power or performance loss", which I'd like to avoid.
http://www.lpg-kits.com/bmw.htm
Googling does not bring up any results relevant to Thailand, so I wonder if I can find it here.
-UC
Googled : http://www.euroautogas.co.th/main/products.php
They are sellling Vogas, apparently it's a product from Voltran (TR).
Going through their spec's and claims, seems interesting, but also triggers some questions.
They claim that no Flashlube is required because they are using a mix of LPG and gasoline.
Might very well work nicely, but you will be using more gasoline than you would on a pure
LPG system, that would only use gasoline in the cold phase of the engine.
No power-loss... probably by changing the mix LPG/Gasoline when HP's are required,
resulting in a different THB/KM figure.....
The so-called no-power-loss claims are virtual, a LPG system can be tuned to "almost"
equal performance compared to gasoline, with one drawback... clearly higher gas consumption.
Its up to the driver what he want's to achieve.
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I have not read of any subsidies towards NGV, unless there is?
YEs there is!
Real price of NGV is around 14 Baht/kg, so there currently is about 5-6 Baht subsidy...
Source:
http://www.bangkokpost.com/040708_Business...l2008_biz01.php
THANK YOU! Monty....
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Yes you mentioned a few times about your constraints on the fueling stations for NGV. I do get 230km per filling though Monty.
For others, please consider NGV. If for not any other sake, running a car on NGV is extremely friendly to the environment. Although it being costly to install to start off with but you see a big saving after a few months and realise that you have paid the installation off. I am very close to paying off mine. On petrol i would be spending between THB12k to 16k per month, now i pay between 1k to 1.5K.
After reading the weekend papers and the comments by the Ministry of TraNSPORT this weekend I am going to go with NGV. .
NOw where in Bangkok can I get the NGV conversion done?? Anyone have contact details.
I don't know where you live, but the company I went also does NGV, what's more, their own gas station supplies NGV to (about 100 up that same road).
website: http://www.ps-pornsak.com they are located on On Nut Road, close to the intersection with Udom Suk Road (next to the outer ring road -- east side).
And as I mentioned, if required, they have English speaking staff.
I spoke to a mechanic on the phone who said d they don't do NGV(Only LPG) but as there is a lot of extension numbers I may have got a section that only deals with LPG. I tried to get the operator but they didn't pick up.
After checking their website again, they do not mention NGV, so you might be right, my mistake.. caused by the fact that when I was in the workshop, I saw NGV stuff laying around (tank etc). Thus I assumed that they did NGV....or did they converted an NGV to LPG, and those parts where leftovers?...everything is possible.
As for their phone-system, happened to me to, but after seeing the action in their office, I could understand why....
For other installers... maybe check the http://www.gasthai.com website, and crawl your way through.
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Yes you mentioned a few times about your constraints on the fueling stations for NGV. I do get 230km per filling though Monty.
For others, please consider NGV. If for not any other sake, running a car on NGV is extremely friendly to the environment. Although it being costly to install to start off with but you see a big saving after a few months and realise that you have paid the installation off. I am very close to paying off mine. On petrol i would be spending between THB12k to 16k per month, now i pay between 1k to 1.5K.
After reading the weekend papers and the comments by the Ministry of TraNSPORT this weekend I am going to go with NGV. .
NOw where in Bangkok can I get the NGV conversion done?? Anyone have contact details.
I don't know where you live, but the company I went also does NGV, what's more, their own gas station supplies NGV to (about 100 up that same road).
website: http://www.ps-pornsak.com they are located on On Nut Road, close to the intersection with Udom Suk Road (next to the outer ring road -- east side).
And as I mentioned, if required, they have English speaking staff.
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Always keep in mind that "the powers to be" in this country have their hidden agenda, propagating NGV
to whatever cost, when this includes faking up the price of other fuel products, they do not care.
ues used in shopping malls like 10~50% discount (after they raised the prices of those products to compensate for it)
where did you get this information from ? Its complete BS to me. PTT is losing millions of baht daily in selling NGV.
....
TB..
Shall we try to keep things in context, PTT may be losing millions per day with their NGV program, but still reaping in enough profits from their other products. It is merely reducing their overall gain.
And if we would continue in this context.... soon PTT/Govt. will then also have to cut away the subsidies on NGV due to the huge losses and you will be paying the same extra as well...
I do not dispute that NGV is probably the future, but it still has a long way to go before being mature.
SM...
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yes thats right. Yesterday the rama 9 lpg station was closed at night ..usually i feel up from there every time...then headed towards rca side for fill up and that was closed to due to less supply. then they told me the only station is open on petchbury road. well, i went there, long queue. But they did a favor to me as i was the only private car rest were taxi and i could fill quick. Charged me 11.25 baht / litre but i'm glad that i go lpg.
i sense a serious shortage of gas in the coming months.
however, i thought i just heard from the radio that they are going to setup LPG price for vehicle to 18 baht per / litre active from next month. Not confirmed.
I filled up on Nuan Chan road today at noon, queued up for about 20 minutes to get my load,
price was 11.90.
Station operated by V2 Gas, one of their own tankers pulled in while I was waiting.
Overall it was a bit of a chaos, cars coming in from both directions, jumping the queue etc.
Tank wards where trying to regulate traffic.... But got my gas after all, and the usual looks;
Farang filling up LPG.
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I'm not getting it...
Bangkok post today stated that if the price of LPG was allowed to float, it would go up to 48 Baht/liter, reflecting real market prices.
Under the plan, LPG sold to households for cooking would continue to be subsidised while the price of gas sold to the transport and industrial sectors would be floated. If the LPG price were fully floated, the retail price would be equivalent to 48 baht a litre, compared with 18.13 baht at present.Which IMO is a load of <deleted>... Also, current retail is nowhere near 18 Baht/liter, 13 at the most (as of yesterday anyway)...
In most Western Europe a liter of LPG costs under 0.7 Euro's, or less then 37 Baht/liter, and no European country subsidizes LPG, on the contrary, over there a lot more taxes and excise are levied.
In general, pretty much worldwide, LPG at the pump costs around 40% of premium petrol.
In Thailand, If the Bkk post article is true, LPG would cost almost 120% of the price of petrol. Or would cost 30% more then pretty much anywhere else in the world...
Doesn't make sense to me...
BTW today's price of LPG in the UK is 56p or some 37 Baht!/liter while petrol is at 118p or 78 Baht/liter...
Source of the Bkk post article (will only work today, Monday) http://www.bangkokpost.com/300608_Business...2008_biz003.php
Always keep in mind that "the powers to be" in this country have their hidden agenda, propagating NGV
to whatever cost, when this includes faking up the price of other fuel products, they do not care.
Fact is that around the world, un-subsidized LPG is substantially cheaper than gasoline, even with much higher taxes. In some countries in EU you also pay a higher annual road tax when you are using LPG, this in
an attempt to cut your profits...
In a general comment to the fuel hype ... maybe it's time for "Public Obedience", and follow the govt. advice to use public transport, but to make sure that the system works, we should do it all at the same time, thus in the morning, leave the car home and take a bus/BTS/MRT/mini-van to work, no taxi's since they are not part of the public transport system.....
After reading the BKK Post article.... seems the govt. is cooking up a nice doomsday scenario, to mentally prepare everybody for the worst, then in a few day's cool the whole thing down somewhere half way, thereby achieving widespread acceptance by the public. Same as those cheap sales techniques used in shopping malls like 10~50% discount (after they raised the prices of those products to compensate for it)
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If they only deregulate LPG price at fuel stations, you'll see a sudden increase of sales house hold LPG tanks, few thousand baht for a small electrical LPG pump, and transfer...
Of course this will bring the Police and Military to a high-alert status with all those assumed terrorist attacks
in the country, caused by the exploding DIY refillers.....
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The issue has caught the attention of the Press already.
The government issued a statement that the situation was caused by delivery problems from Laem Chabang
apparently the LPG tanker couldn't berth there.....
but all is resolved now.It was also mentioned that several stations where not selling anymore while waiting for the announced price raise. Others are already raising their prices (13 THB/liter for my Saturday night refill)
Thus the usual greedy crooks are at work again.
It's going to be fun in the coming day's, weeks.
Some govt. officials stated that only car LPG would be deregulated, household LPG stays at the same price,
I wonder how long it will take for the "creative" Thai to buy household bottles and fill at home.....
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On Thai TV news they just discussed the issue of the current LPG shortage.
Apparently the tanker (ship) couldn't dock in Laem Chabang due to the lack of space.
{Whatever excuse is fitting}
It was also mentioned that there are some crooks storing the LPG until the new pricing is active....
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Yeak OK Uncle Joe Stalin sets the prices.
Do you know that other station I mentioned to you?
Nope, I rarely go into the city, and if never use On Nut road for that.
(If you are refering to that new station you mentioned)
If I'm driving somewhere and it looks that I'm running out of LPG,
I mostly switch on my GPS, the map also contains all? the gas stations,
when there are a few (normal) along a road and there is one more on the map
but I can's see a brand sign (esso/caltex etc), then until now that was
always a LPG station.
And when I'm going ito a direction that is a bit of the usual track, I tend
to check the database on the Google Earth map at home before leaving
(see one of my previous postings)
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I think I mentioned before - it means Natural Gas Vehicle.
btw - sys - they never did get a shipment today. Is 8.50 a good price?
Oops, got it wrong again,assumed LPG, 8.50 is the regular price as far as I know.
And.. I didn't notice any shortage on NGV yesterday, except the normal
cycle.
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something I forgot to mention... a 58 liter tank will allow you to fill it with 43 liters of LPG....on my Zafi good for about 300 KM, but then my surplus body weight directly translates to my foot pressure on the accelerator.
Seems to be a tad on the low side.
Normally you can fill to 80% which would be 46.5 liter.
My 58 liter tank cuts of at 48 liter.
In another car I have an electronic controlled (injection) LPG system, with a 68 liter tank.
Straight out of the shop it could only take 41 liter (60%)!
The installer changed the valve thing on the tank (under warranty) after which I could fill 55 liters of LPG...
Thanks for the info, I'll tell them to check it once more.
on the other hand, since there are also some parts on the inside of the tank that occupy space (take volume away), I wasn't really concerned, but if your 58 liter tank can hold 46.5 liters, I would like that to happen to my tank also.
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Thanks monty.
Any idea the difference between LPG & LNG?
If you use the wrong term the taxi drivers look at you like you are retarded.
If LNG is liquid natural gas it seems it will become very cold & go into a liquid state at maybe some rather high pressues (like 1000 bar).
and what is NGV then? I'm familiar with LPG, CNG, LNG, NGV is then probably a local specialty, extra spicy
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Sync. At about 6 pm I looked out to find the little green leaf station closed. I went down there & asked "mote mai"? Yes. Price 8.50. Will you have more tomorrow? Answer Yes.
<deleted> can't the government keep up with demand? Clowns.
Maybe you got it wrong Dotcom, remember the first times that gasoline prices where jumping up... at that time gas stations regularly ran out of gasoline the evening before, this basically due to two factors, 1 everybody was filling up like monkeys the day before the raise, 2 some gas stations simply declared that they where out of it but in reality where holding back their cheaper stock to make a nice profit the next day.
So, maybe this is now the case for LPG as well... case 1 and/or 2 may apply
Last night one of my family members managed to get the tank filled at 13 THB per liter....
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They will probably install a standard 58 liter tank, this will still allow access to the lower and rear-left storage compartments. (access to the lower compartment is required to remove your spare tire, would you however drill a large hole in that cover in the correct location to access the fixing screw, you can keep that lid closed.{remove your toolkit first}).
If you do not require access to those compartments, a substantially larger tank can be mounted.
something I forgot to mention... a 58 liter tank will allow you to fill it with 43 liters of LPG....on my Zafi good for about 300 KM, but then my surplus body weight directly translates to my foot pressure on the accelerator.
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Well Bubba,
As you may have noticed, I'm driving a Chevrolet Zafira, and do have some connections into Chevrolet....
Be it one of their service centers.
There seems to be more problems than pleasures with the NGV converted Optra's, this of course being an unofficial statement. So I advise your friend to think twice, if he is driving a 1.8L and the warranty would be void anyway, let him get a LPG conversion for 30 to 40 K. THB (hopefully you $60K was a typo).
---OT---
Basically car manufacturers should be called to court for their whole "warranty void" policy, by enforcing it they force buyers to keep running expensive fuels for at least 3 years after the purchase of the vehicle.
And believe me, all of them know exactly what kind of damage is to be expected depending on the alternative fuel used.
When Gasohol became the latest cry of this country, GM/Chevrolet was quick to assure that their cars where Gasohol compliant..... however the original manufacturer of the Zafira (Opel Germany) was not issuing a green light for the engines used in the Zafira's, not until March this year. So who do you have to believe.
(just something to think about)
--- OT end ---
Another tidbit: I have a friend with a Chevy Optra who contacted Chevrolet regarding an NGV conversion, since Chevrolet are now producing new Optras out of the factory with NGV. Chevrolet said that yes, they will do an NGV conversion at their service centres. They have certified NGV for their 1.6L engine and the warranty would not be voided for an NGV conversion with that engine. They can also do the conversion on the 1.8L engine, but the warranty would be voided (even done at the Chevy shop), because they have not "certified" the NGV conversion for that engine.And the cost? Chevrolet told him about $60K.
Where would one mount the tank on a Zafira? Inside the passenger cabin? Remove the third seat? Wouldn't a gas leak asphyxiate the occupants? I ask, because I'm looking at a Zafira to buy but don't see am appropriate mounting place. i guess the same problem exists for all vans.
The same question kept me back from installing LPG for a long time, I did not want to lose the third row.
the obvious alternative would be a Toroid tank in the space occupied by the spare tire, this is commonly done in EU, with all required safety certifications (meaning that the German TUV fully accepts toroid tanks)
But until now Toroids are forbidden in TH....
So back to the third row.., there are two options: they can install a tank behind the third row, not a big one of course and it is not accepted by the TH car inspection.. or you put a tank across your third row, losing the extra seats.
The best solution is to give up one seat and install a tank lengthwise, this still leaves you 6 seats to be used instead of 7, most installers are following that option now.
If it is properly done, the installation can be removed with minor traces remaining (in case the Toroids are legal in TH) and the seat can be reinstalled.
They will probably install a standard 58 liter tank, this will still allow access to the lower and rear-left storage compartments. (access to the lower compartment is required to remove your spare tire, would you however drill a large hole in that cover in the correct location to access the fixing screw, you can keep that lid closed.{remove your toolkit first}).
If you do not require access to those compartments, a substantially larger tank can be mounted.
As for the possible dangers of gas leakage in to the car, when properly installed, there is practically no possibility that gas is entering the cabin.
Properly means that the tank access points are covered with a gasket sealed box (plastic or aluminum) and that the in- and out- gas lines are packed in an extra (sealed) hose/tubing that is open to the outside of the car, any leakage will then escape though those tubings and vented to the exterior of the car.
(as done by my installer).
I have my GAS since a few weeks now and until now didn't detect (smell) any leakage in the car.
If you want an absolute failsafe, have the tank covered by an extra sealed enclosure and install a common "smoke detector" in it. Smoke detectors also detect minor traces of household gas (LPG).
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Apparently high in demand and no supply, I just wanted to refill and all LPG stations in my area are out of LPG, that is On Nut/Srinakarin/Patanakarn.
Asking the guy at the pump when there would be gas again.... Mai Ru...
(maybe Tuesday morning, after the deregulation of the LPG prices)
If they're anything like the British Governement, as soon as they realise lots of people are using gas, they'll remove the subsidy & whack the tax up.Diesel used to be cheap in England until diesel cars grew in popularity. Now its dearer than petrol! A lesser refined product!
It's a world of demand and supply. The government can only do so much.
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I'm lately noticing that when a website is "hanging" during build-up, the lower task bar shows that the browser is "waiting" for one or the other Google service.
Anybody experiencing the same?
Cng(ngv) Or Lpg?
in Thailand Motor Discussion
Posted
Congratulations and welcome to the "gang".
well if the 32THB/L becomes reality, gasoline will also have reached new heights, so there will still be a bit of a profit margin, thus not to much to worry about. Worst case we convert to NGV then, since part of the LPG installation is reusable like ECU, injectors, sensors etc, just tank, gas lines and evaporator/regulator needs replacement (I think).
In another thread I made a simple calculation on the break-even between LPG and gasoline, in my case LPG can reach 30THB/L before it is more expensive to run LPG, but these calculations are based upon current pricing.