Tigs

Ulysses

Now realising I set you a hard task for quoting credible scientific papers then here are a few examples ALL peer reviewed by fellow PhD's and correctly and thoroughly referenced.. Great reading if you can spare the time. If you can't spare the time then you may never be able to consider the truth.

Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse Prof Steven Jones PhD

The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot Be True By Prof David Ray Griffin, Ph.D.

Intersecting Facts and Theories on 9/11 Joe Firmage

Seismic Proof: 9/11 was an Inside Job Craig T. Furlong and Gordon Ross, Member, Scholars for 9/11 Truth - quite compelling!

These are all scientific and make compelling reading to anyone with a modicum of intelligence. Now do you have any similar papers that support the official version of events?

Ulysses

A slightly more intellectual approach, showing the very poor quality and shoddy arguments on the site you linked to. Makes interesting reading!

Debunking Popular mechanics

The 'report' you link to at all is not a report at all and the site is a joke

In other words, any report that denies your beliefs will be rejected.

Ulysses

It is not a report is it? There is nothing Scientific about it, there is nothing of any Engineering note either. As I said, just like many of the 9/11 conspiracy sites that are filled with garbage and unsubstantiated claims, the 9/11 debunking site you link to is written by equally intellectually challenged individuals. Most of the 'facts' on the pages of the collapse of the WTC7 building are not 'facts' at all and are of the quality of "Mr Smitth a fireman said he had never seen melted steel inside any collapsed building before", and leaves it at that, but fails to say that steel structured buildings have NEVER collapsed in this manner ever before due to fire, no matter how bad the inferno. Therefore the facts which are not referenced are completely useless as they have not been 'tested' by scientific scrutiny. The 9/11 debunking site is as bad in it's selectiveness as the 9/11 conspiracy sites. I said a 'credible' report, based on scientific fact that is referenced correctly to authors, studies and engineering specialists. Just one credible scientific report Ulysses.

Bye the way Ulysses, I have no preconceived beliefs concerning this. I believe whatever the objective scientific evidence tells me. Too many questions remain unanswered for a definitive decision either way.

can you link to one credible report that will explain how the twin towers fell

http://www.popularme...ry/news/1227842

Ulysses

The 'report' you link to at all is not a report at all and the site is a joke, in line with many of the 9/11 conspiracy sites it is a low class, ill written piece of garbage. Any technical report will do, a technical report backed by named civil engineers, Scientists and Specialists in the field of building collapse (or demolition).

But they weren't, were they? The controllers didn't know the transponders had been turned off, nor did they know their altered flight plans. Ergo, the hijacked flights were "virtually invisible" since nobody knew where they were or what had happened to them.

Now, back on topic.....

You brought the subject up NOT me, so don't come the 'back on topic' routine. The aircraft were NOT virtually invisible on radar, they were visible. I suggest yet again, another read in is required for an accurate version of the course of events.

The US and Vietnam have both made nice after the war, now I suggest the rest of you drop it as it has nothing to do with the topic.

It is irrelevant whether they have made nice or not. There are posters on here flaming others for having the opinion that there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. The defence to such a flame is simple, the governments in question have planned sophisticated and some non sophisticated false flag operations in both the distant and recent past. Those false flag operations serve as a constant reminder that governments will and do try to deceive the public, something which those that choose to post pictures of tin foil hats should bear in mind. In terms of your moderation the comment concerning relevance is a valid one but I feel can be rightfully questioned and argued against both in terms of context of the subject matter and the flaming posts. The comment concerning 'making nice' is of absolutely zero relevance at all and perhaps what should be moderated out is the 'tin hat brigade' posters who yet again call everyone else simply because they do not conform (for very good reasons) to a set of government issued statements.

How convenient for you to say such a thing Ulysses!

The conspiracy nuts can never address a particular topic, so they always roll out some irrelevant straw-man dodge to hide the fact that they don't have a clue about what is being discussed.

Stick to the topic of the thread.

I am not a conspiracy nut and i am addressing a specific topic. You are the one that is flaming people for their views, I am therefore, giving you information which would show that your flames are both unnecessary and childish, as evidence shows that the governments concerned have indeed been involved in false flag ops before, so why not this time?

It is interesting that the statement from the UK was that the device appeared sinister but was completely harmless, and then after Obama whipping up the pre election fear with his speech, the UK make another statement saying the device had explosives in! Funny that, they weren't in there at the time of the first statement, or did the expert just not see them then? They have (the UK Government) now tried to cover up the first statement and make the second more credible by issuing further confusion, namely. "It is now being admitted that first examinations overlooked the fact that it may have contained explosive material." So we are now asked to believe that the story has changed because a suspicious package was checked but it was not deemed necessary to check for explosives, yet they do explosive residue checks on passengers hand baggage going through security and this 'impounded' package, alerted via the top secret intelligence agencies no less was not worthy of the most basic check, allegedly!

It stinks so bad of bull sh*t you could be living in a cowshed.

2000 architectural and engineering professionals can not be wrong

http://ae911truth.org/en.html

There are various reports (official/unofficial) which do explain why the twin towers and WTC-7 felt as they fell. Also documented by lots of professionals. All those people cannot be wrong, now can they?

Can I convince you? Probably not, in a way I couldn't care less either

Rubi

You are not really the 'Wondering Type' then are you. You make the perfect citizen for those governments who wish to control populations. You just couldn't care less! One day the folly of your philosophy will become apparent to you.

By the way Rubi, can you link to one credible report that will explain how the twin towers fell and in particular WTC7. Seriously I would be really interested to read it, so would the Architects of the Twin Towers, who are amongst those professionals that say 'no way'.

geriatrickid

Would you also care to give comment and your truthful analysis on both the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and particularly the USS Liberty.

What does either incident have to do with the topic of this thread?

How convenient for you to say such a thing Ulysses!

You seem to be forgetting that yourself and geriatrickid and a couple of other misguided people are calling other posters for always making the assumption that the US (or UK) governments are involved in conspiracy theories and false flag operations, yet there is more factual evidence available to display that the US have been involved with more false flag ops than we would imagine. Tonkin and Liberty are prime examples, and if the POTUS will ignore and hide the USS Liberty incident, what else would they do in order to gain political advantage. If you cannot see the relevance then perhaps you ought not to be shouting down those that clearly have a better understanding of world events than yourself.

chukd

With the transponders turned off, the hijacked aircraft became virtually invisible to the flight controllers.

Can you explain why you think the aircraft would become virtually invisible without the transponder please? I am sure the researchers at the major defence companies would also like to know as it would save hundreds of billions developing stealth technology.

A transponder serves the same function, basically, as an IFF system. I'm assuming you know what an IFF system is without Googleing it?

Anyway, moving rapidly forward, a transponder identifies a commercial aircraft with both the airline identifier code and the flight number which then shows up on a radar screen being monitored by an air traffic controller in an FAA control tower.

With the transponder turned off, the ATC only sees a blip on his screen and has no idea what aircraft the blip represents, thereby making that particular aircraft "virtually invisible". It's there but nobody knows who it is.

It ain't stealth technology at all. It's just takes some common sense to figure this one out.

Chukd

I was a military pilot for over 20 years. I am familiar with it all thanks. Your statement that the aircraft becomes virtually invisible is not true though is it, in fact it is very misleading (hence my dig about stealth!). The aircraft is still seen as a 'blip' as you call it on the screen. Certain information given by the transponder is not given but that is all. It becomes an unidentified aircraft/target. All that happens then is that fighters are vectored on to the targets, other radar systems are available that will give accurate speed and height data of the aircraft/target concerned. For seasoned controllers who can identify all the aircraft on the screen with the exception of a few, then you are not interested in the ones you can identify are you, as you are aware of the threat aircraft in that Transponders have been switched off. Any fighters sent up on Cap or intercept would have found and moved in on the transponderless aircraft very quickly.

If only they had been launched!

geriatrickid

Would you also care to give comment and your truthful analysis on both the Gulf of Tonkin incident, and particularly the USS Liberty.

here is just something to get your teeth in to with the USS Liberty.

A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to "conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary."

I am sure for the rest, Google and youtube are your friends! I look forward to how you explain that neither incidents involved lies and deceptions to the American people by their own Government, let alone the world.

geriatrickid

Do you want to take a deep breath and think it through? I provided a timeline. This situation goes back to September. There is now good reason to believe that the mysterious explosion and fire on board the UPS plane out of Dubai may have been a bomb.

... NORAD responded as best it could,and the first 2 US fighter jets to arrive on scene were too late.

Very nice of you! Who are you?

Tell me what is the good reason to believe there was a bomb on board the UPS Flight? And then tell my why someone went to all that trouble and did not as always claim responsibility to get world coverage of their cause?

re NORAD No it didn't.

And do you know why they were too late?

The US government has not been claiming that Osama lives in a cave!

He most likely is living in a Pakistani village. Keep in mind that Osama has diabetes. He has to take care of his health and cave dwelling would kill him. Nor do I think that any of his 5 wives and 20 or so children fancy living in a cave.

Yes they have.

No he is not. The president of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto said quite clearly in an interview with David Frost that Osama Bin laden had been murdered. She was then assassinated 1 month later. The BBC (bless there honest reporting socks!) edited out the comment from the BBC interivew and the unedited version remains on youtube.today, but not on the BBC one. You would have thought with such a scoop the BBC would have gone wild with excitement rather than edit it out. Furthermore, so you now believe that if he is not in a cave he has a family of 25 following him around, all women and children, and he still evades detection from the country with the best intelligence resources in the world.

You need to re-read the 'time-line of events' concerning the aircraft on 9/11 before you make your comments.

chukd

With the transponders turned off, the hijacked aircraft became virtually invisible to the flight controllers.

Can you explain why you think the aircraft would become virtually invisible without the transponder please? I am sure the researchers at the major defence companies would also like to know as it would save hundreds of billions developing stealth technology.

H2oDunc

If I recall correctly the excuse they used at the time was the were in fact holding exercises which dealt with just this scenario ?

Indeed they were, quite funny as well that during the London Bombings on 7/7 the authorities there were also holding an exercise on that day at that time with exactly the same scenario, even down to the same train stations and bus routes. It caused no end of chaos with delaying emergency services, just as on 9/11. Now I am not saying anything but I bet you think that is just a bit odd as well don't you? I am sure geriatrickid and ulysees think nothing of it.

How funny. Just in time for a bit of a patriotic frenzy on the run up to the November elections.!

Call me a cynic but the whole thing is a load of tosh! Either that or these are the worst terrorists in the world. They have done the hard bit by getting the package on to an aircraft undetected, only for it not to go off, and then they have put on the addresses of some Jewish community centers, well that wouldn't raise suspicion in the Yemen now would it! It is all a pile of crap and comes at a time when we need another scare to keep the population under control, and the budgets free from scrutiny.

For some it seems the thought of 'government conspiracy' comes natural. No proof needed, it MUST have been that darn government again. I'm equally convinced the flooding in Thailand is the work of the CIA wishing to flush away all those bodies of illegally killed terrorists which they may no longer hide in Gitmo

Now come on that last bit is just silly!

teatree, has it!

The use of false flag operations by the USA, Israel and to an extent the UK is well documented. The problem is in these days of the internet, information flows to freely and too quickly to pull the wool over everybody's eyes effectively (hence the desire to bring laws in, in the US by the current administration to allow the government complete control of the internet when it deems that there is a security threat to the USA).

The Gulf of Tonkin incident should be read as to how to stage an incident by killing your own folks in order to justify a war. The USS Liberty remains to this day an utter scandal for which nobody has been held to account. 34 US Servicemen were killed, by Israeli air attacks on a US ship, the reading and evidence of the commander on the ship is totally disturbing. Read it, learn, then comment on how quick some people are to distrust governments. Even simpler events to terrorise populations occur and are effective. Remember a few years back in the UK when Tony Bliar needed a bit of leverage and so deployed the Army to encircle Heathrow because of an imminent terrorist attack? Tanks and armoured personnel carriers surrounding Heathrow. The civilian population and tourists alike were well set up on that one. I mean if you have a large bomb and you want to go to Heathrow and the Army have surrounded the place you get a much better result by getting a different taxi and standing in the middle of Paddington Rail Station at 5pm.

Since i worked in Northern Ireland years ago where the bomb makers worked with deadly efficiency, cunning and incredible technical expertise, their trade seems to have deteriorated somewhat. We are led to believe that people seriously fill the soles of their shoes with plastic explosive and try to light it with a naked flame, that people actually wrapped explosives in their underpants, and some fools were trying to make a liquid explosive on board an aircraft that was impossible to make on the aircraft. Were these really Al Quaida terrorists? they were all shown to be suffering mental illness one way or the other, and in terms of a dedicated attempt to cause harm on an aircraft they really are at the bottom of the list, and you'd get a much better results making a molotov cocktail out of your bottle of duty free vodka.

It is all meant to keep us towing the line. It makes you feel they are looking for the bad guys because they confiscate your sandwich with extra mayo at the gate and make you open all the tins of baby food for your nipper you need on the flight. hel_l even the Captain of your flight is not exempt! A friend of mine had his Marks and Spencers potato salad confiscated, only to find when he returned around the screen to complain, the potential deadly explosive he purchased at M&S was being consumed by the lardy security guard. He had his 'sharp pencils' confiscated as they were a potential weapon, yet when he reminded the security guards that in the cockpit he has a f*****g big fire axe, or that if he wants to get rid of the aircraft and its occupants all he has to do is point it at the ground, they looked at him and said 'rules is rules Sir'!

I said to a mate at the beginning of this year that we would have a global terror alert in October just prior to the November elections, and Bingo! Coincidence? maybe, do I believe anything that spurts from the mouth of some of these governments...No!

am I

convinced the flooding in Thailand is the work of the CIA wishing to flush away all those bodies of illegally killed terrorists which they may no longer hide in Gitmo

No! That IS a conspiracy theory.

How funny. Just in time for a bit of a patriotic frenzy on the run up to the November elections.!

Call me a cynic but the whole thing is a load of tosh! Either that or these are the worst terrorists in the world. They have done the hard bit by getting the package on to an aircraft undetected, only for it not to go off, and then they have put on the addresses of some Jewish community centers, well that wouldn't raise suspicion in the Yemen now would it! It is all a pile of crap and comes at a time when we need another scare to keep the population under control, and the budgets free from scrutiny.

Isn't 15 the legal age in Thailand??

The youngest I've been was 17. But I had only just turned 23. Not quite old enough to be her father unlike most of ya'll 555

The youngest I've been is zero. How did you manage 17.

I think you will find the age of consent is 18, so admitting the 17 year old on a public forum monitored by government agencies is probably not the wisest thing to do. Just a thought.

Utterlyuseless

Where you one of those film extras in 'One flew over the Cuckoos Nest'?

good lord here we go again....after your doppelganger(most likely you), errr friend was humiliated for posting blatant lies you come on with the same name calling nonsense...post your facts or stand down...we are waiting.....check the forum rules as well about name calling....you are also dismissed pending your presentation of facts which you and I both know don't exist....don't bluff on a pair of deuces mate, yer losing face faster than yer altergego

Utterlyuseless

You are a sandwich short of a picnic, truly. Being a blatant Troll is also against forum rules. By the way, what lies have I told? Have you checked your figures yet? Have you seen that 1.85 billion flights per year is total nonsense! That is enough flights to fly 250 billion people on, that is over 40 times the population of the entire planet!! Dork.

The possibility of child abduction fills me with terror. One of the problems is that generally, half Thai, half farang kids are attractive, with very pale skin. My two have in fact white skin, and nobody believes my wife is the mother. I am sure like us, many of your kids are like little celebrities in the local community, everyone wants to touch them and hold them. We went in to a restaurant where the waitress wanted to carry the toddler to the back kitchen to show everybody and I said sorry, no way. She looked perplexed, put inquisitive, and asked why, I said well, if I had $100 million in cash I would not let you take it out of my sight, so what on earth makes you think I would allow that with my daughter who is more valuable to me than all the money in Thailand. She got the idea.

I would find out if the old Chinese have a son or daughter, trying for a child but cannot, and I would ignore the posters who say it is cultural, that is complete bolleux, and they would not have to live with themselves everyday if your child was taken. Pale skinned kids are a valuable asset here in Asia. All that said, be diplomatic and kind with the elderly Chinese. Put your Child's price above all money or perhaps 'all the tea in China!' and never allow anybody but immediate adult family (Granny or wife's Sisters) members to babysit, and make sure that whatever school your child goes to has a strict locked gates secure system/policy for 'hometime' and early morning arrival.

Watch em like hawks!

YOU need to do the research because you are the one making the false claims......oh yes yes I was also a fighter pilot , former formula one champ, ex-cia....we all were! etcetc

here's another one to worry the likes of you though on another TV thread

"Elevators and escalators kill about 30 people and injure 17,000 each year in the US. In 2003, a particularly nice doctor in a Houston hospital was decapitated. Yes, lots of safety stuff but sometimes those digital chips just fail badly. Don't revert to stairs though, the stats per user per hundred feet of elevation are worse."

Better get yer seatbelt on on that escalator Mr scarebro'

The sky is falling, the sky is falling, run run......

I am not making any false claims, I do not need to do the research, and I am not going to engage with somebody displaying a Neanderthal tendency for picking a fight. If you want to put up something totally ridiculous on the site, such as you believe that there are 1.85 billion flights each year then don't say people are making false claims when they say you are wrong. I know the answer, now you go and figure, as you deserve no assistance from me with your confrontational outbursts. But start looking a LOT LOT lower, say around 98-99% lower than the figure you claim.

The thread is not about lifts, nor escalators nor elevators. It was simply about safety advice. With air travel you are provided with a simple piece of safety equipment. The advice from the aircraft manufacturer, the Captain, the flight crew, is to wear your seat belt at all times, and unless you are a huge fat lardy ass there is little discomfort in doing so. You were simply advised, IF you encounter one of the different types of severe turbulence, unexpectedly, and you are not wearing a restraining device, because you think you know better than the aforementioned professionals, you are likely to get hurt and the injuries have been known to be severe, in some cases fatal. No scaremongering, just simple facts, so you choose what you wish, it is not to prevent litigation, or the wearing of seat belts throughout your flight would be mandatory, it is advice given to you by the aircraft operators out of a duty of care. Have a nice day.

Edited to add.

Haveaniceday

There are a number of operators out here that have got 'situations' going on that would make your toes curl if you knew what was happening. There was one operator I was asked to do some scoping work for with a view to implementing a CRM/Human Factors program (they - the owners just wanted a tick in the box). Having lunch with a couple of Captains and Senior cabin crew, I found out that one of the 747s was missing 45 emergency oxygen masks for the pax, and the ones that were in the aircraft were not fitted, as they were the wrong type!!!! So in the event of a cabin depressurization the masks would drop down and fall in to your lap, which at 35 000 feet would result in a lot of corpses. The owners of the company didn't give two hoots when I spoke to them about it the same day. I declined to work with them.The airline is, thankfully, since finished.

Tigs, I agree some of the maths posted is, well, "out there with the fairies"

One slight thing, Orient Thai / 1-2 Go dodgy brothers, the Phuket Accident is an Accident, not an Incident.

Tigs:"I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident"

Not saying you don't know your stuff, but lecturing to me as a guest speaker t

haveaniceday

It must have been subliminal as I was using a split screen and had read your post before mine. You are of course entirely correct for which I offer my apology. Human Error and all that. To question ability as a guest speaker on the 'slight thing' is perhaps a little harsh eh? Happy flying, and have a nice day.

Utterlyuseful

I am afraid I need not engage any further. The numbers you quote are hopelessly hopelessly wrong. But hey, google is your friend right! Nice site lots of authority there ... Not!

You really need to research how many flights there are per day world-wide and then annually. The number is absolutely nowhere near your figure, absolutely not even on the same planet, never mind ballpark. Assumption may well be the basis of mathematics, but asking Einstein is a little problematic and your assumptions are way way of the mark.

I am well aware of the entire occurrences surrounding the One-2-Go incident, you were the one mentioning it in connection to a 'microburst'!!!

Anyway, I will tooddle off now. I know nothing, Only 20 years as a Pilot and 10 years running an international Air Safety Company, delivering world-wide Air Safety training, mandated and approved by FAA, EASA, and individual CAA's across the globe, and lecturing as guest speaker all over the world to countless audiences up to 1000 people. Have a great weekend, and...remember your belt.

I knew the politically correct and pedantic nanny state types would jump all over this……

Rather than replying with spurious statements and ad hominem attacks, perhaps you'd like to take a shot at quantifying your outrageous fear mongering

I'll take up the challenge and give a shot at calculating the probability of being injured in a severe turbulence accident not caused by pilot error, maintenance, poor planning in avoiding storms etc… I do believe that pilot error such as in the reckless landing in the microburst wind shear in Phuket a few years back does cause accidents…faulty maintenance also causes a lot of incidents…

http://www.chacha.co...e-united-states

On an average day in the US there are 28,537 commercial flights, 27,178 general aviation flights, 24,548 air taxi flights.

Rounding to 100,000 flights/day in the US, annualize it and guesstimate multiplier to account for the air traffic in the entire rest of the world

1,825,000,000/year = 100,000 * 365 * 50

Probability = total number of serious incidents/total number of commercial flights

Let's assume 1 serious incident every 3 years or 1 per 547500000 flights

1/547500000= .000000001826

Now multiply that by the odds of being one of the injured passengers, let's say 5% of the total number of passengers actually get injured……looks like I may have OVERestimated the probability in my first post

There is certainly a much higher chance of being hit by a baht bus in Pattaya, or perhaps even being hit by a falling coconut!

Utterlyuseful

Once again, now your mathematics are utterlyuseless

Your linky linky, no worky worky, so if the maths is from the site I have no idea, but you published it, so I presume you checked it first.

Firstly you get information on the number of US flights and then round it up! Your daily US flights are 80263 (are you sure that is correct!!!), and you round it up to 100 000, that is a 'round up of 25% already! and you are about to multiply that by 365 and then 50 (what is the 50 for?). Surely you would 'round' it to 80 000.

But seriously, look at the number you have come up with!!! Do you seriously think that there are 1,850,000.000 flights per year!! Are you kidding me? One billion eight hundred and fifty million!!!

You then make a blind assumption that there is one serious accident every three years where is that from? along with an assumption of 5% injuries in a serious incident. You already quote the Phuket one and that was 100%.

Accidents do occur and many of those accidents are Human Error, because we have now made the machine so good. However, you are trying to say that an aircraft in the cruise, with auto pilot engaged did not encounter turbulence but that it was Pilot error. Your initial rebuke and dismissal of the incident

sorry not buying this seatbelt argument at all....this is just an attempt by the airlines to cover up pilot error combined with some political correctness and fear of lawsuits.....I suspect that the chances of hitting severe turbulence are .00000001%....blame the passnegers, it's cheaper!

is complete horse sh*t, as are your mathematical calculations above. Now you are completely wrong on both counts. Go look at your maths again, and your data source.

Flying is the safest form of transport in the world today, and there is a reason for that...trainng. BUT, if you are involved in an incident then your chances of suffering injury are greatly reduced if you are taking the correct precautions. The chances of being involved in a car accident are remote, but if you are, and you are not wearing your seat belt, you are going to get hurt. Same for aircraft.

.

So the details of the press conference are being kept secret, can we assume that a member of staff will leak out the secret information on wikiLeaks? We should be told!

I was on a Singapore flight last week (Tuesday) that hit extreme turbulence. I am a VERY frequent traveller, but this was the first time since I flew over hurricane Andrew in US 1992 that I've heard people scream on a flight. It was very violent.

The thing is the turbulence on the Singapore flight last week was very sudden without any warning from flight deck. The crew was in the middle of serving dinner and hunkered down to brace themselves against the seats. Seatbelts or not, any passenger on the can was certain to get their pants stained.

Sometimes you're not in your seat, so keeping your seatbelt fastened at all times (while you're in your seat) may not prevent minor accidents if you have to take leak or stretch your legs.

The accidents can be far from minor. Fatalities and broken necks have occurred, and what UKrules says is also valid in that quite horrendous injuries could occur if one of the food or drinks trolleys were to crash onto your head. There is weather radar in the front that allows the crew to 'see' thunderstorm cells and take avoiding action by flying around them, but clear air turbulence cannot be seen, the first you know about it, is when you hit it.

I truly believe that Thaksin looks upon Kim Jong-il with envy and jealousy of the first degree. I am sure wherever he was watching the recent military parades in North Korea, he was sat dreaming of himself in the same situation passing on some form of dynastic power to his offspring.

This man will bring great great trouble to Thailand before he is done, and will make his move when a certain event occurs that sadly cannot be to much further in the future.