Tigs

In my area the rain has been quite light and there was no real damage this year - that was until yesterday when they decided to open the levies to allow water from other areas onto the land around us. The result is that my rice farm is now under 2 meters of water and we will probably lose our crop, worth about Bt80K - my neighbours are pulling up their chillie plants etc in the hope of replanting, but I regret it will be a forlorn hope.

The same thing happened last year, with the added tragedy of a young man's drowned body being washed up onto our land.

The management of the water flow is carried out by incompetent idiots who have no regard for the disaster they cause and give little or no warning.

Really sorry to hear that, must have been quite a shock to you on both counts, this year and last.

sorry not buying this seatbelt argument at all....this is just an attempt by the airlines to cover up pilot error combined with some political correctness and fear of lawsuits.....I suspect that the chances of hitting severe turbulence are .00000001%....blame the passnegers, it's cheaper!

Utterlyuseful, your comment is utterlyuseless, and you display absolutely no knowledge of aviation at all. Your suspicions for hitting turbulence are 100% wrong. So you think that perhaps only 1 flight in a 100 million will hit severe turbulence? Educated guess ... NOT! By the way, the wearing of seat belts throughout your flight is critical to the safety of yourself, and if appropriate, your children.

KTD

There have been many cases of broken necks from people hitting the aircraft ceiling or overhead lockers when the aircraft has hit a pocket of clear air turbulence.

Scorecard

Actually, turbulence happens in specific areas. The type that this aircraft encountered is likely to be Clear Air Turbulence. This is beyond the detection capabilities of the majority of aircraft at the moment and does indeed occur in regions. most commonly on the boundary of the jet stream and slower moving air. The jetstream is a very powerful airflow caused basically by ultra cold air from the arctic regions meeting warmer air currents.If you are flying with the jetstream behind you, it can save you 1 1/2 hours on a long distance international flight, likewise if you are flying in to it, it could add that amount of time to your journey. On the boundary of the jet stream air conditions can be extremely unpredictable. It is also possible to encounter severe turbulence on the lee side of major mountain ranges, so as one poster has said, the Himalayas.

Amen to that - a young man has lost his life. That is the most important part. You can always replace an aeroplane.

Exactly.

Zorro1

Again, I don't want to speculate on this incident, and feel the initial statement of cause factor was a little like the press release 30 mins after the one-2-go aircraft crashed, when the Owner/Director said "Bad weather was the cause of the accident". Statements without validity and importantly without data.

Regards your question concerning, "could a fast jet be brought down by severe turbulence" the answer is yes. I did not mention wind shear, as in comparison to standing waves it is meek and mild. Wind shear affects all aircraft by the way, regardless of size.

If you imagine a flight profile of a transit at 1000agl, with the guys in perhaps a loose formation where the lead is doing the nav and the pilot of one of the aircraft in formation is at fairly low arousal levels, if that aircraft hit a standing wave which had any form of significant rotational component, then before you know it, the jet is flipped upside down, nose down, in an 8000 ft per minute down draught, with 7 seconds to impact. The poor pilot must regain Situational awareness (bearing in mind the forces involved in such an instant downward velocity are massive) quickly, establish what has just happened in his world, react and make a decision on the best course of action and if he is remotely slow concerning thee actions, boom!, particularly if there is rising ground in front of him that is compounding the problem. It is however totally impossible to say what happend to the F-16 in question, as there are a 100 questions need answering before even a draught conclusion could be considered.

Are you instructing in LOS or UK or elsewhere in fact?

Apparently it's the fastest growing organism on the planet

And I believe is crucial to our survival as it produces as much oxygen as the Amazon rain forests.

Regards the algea eating fish Pla Nin (Nile Tilapia ) can you keep these kind of fish with Koi Carp? I have a water feature with a tiled sides and bottom and we had nie carp in there that were doing well, however even after buying expensive filters the water and tiles would become quickly covered in Algae (after 8 days you could not see into the water. I bought a chemical to control algae , which if used properly was safe, however my brother in law took it upon himself to treat the water whilst he was pi**ed, and poured the whole bottle in and killed all of my lovely fish:angry: However, before I embark again I am looking for a better solution, the Tilpia sound good, but would the larger Carp eat them?

Zorro1

Tigs you mentioned not to speculate however your doing it your self, its just normal on a forum. You sound like you may be a fellow pilot. If so can you explain this

"However, when the aircraft flew into a turbulence, the pilot lost control, resulting in the crash"

That doesn't sound right.

Yes, i was a mil pilot for many years. Just one point. Read my posts, at no time have I speculated on anything that could remotely be attached to the cause of crash. I have stated some facts concerning Hydrazine, a reply concerning a poster that seems to think the F-16 is a carrier aircraft, and as was stated, a very tongue in cheek comment aimed at the journo's from the Thai newspapers who are telling us there was some form of radhaz from the aircraft. So I haven't been speculating at all.

Re your comment above. You say I sound like a fellow pilot, if that means that you are one, then why on earth would you want me to explain the turbulence issue?

I won't speculate on the crash. There have been many instances in the past where aircraft have indeed lost control, some temporarily and some encounters have been catastrophic. Turbulence comes in many forms and many degrees of severity. I have no idea of the weather conditions, I have no idea of the altitude of the aircraft. If you are a pilot you will be fully familiar with turbulence caued by Thunderstorms, clear air turbulence, standing waves, micro bursts etc. Unless there is a picture of weather conditions it is impossible to say. Were there Cumulonimbus clouds around, were there lenticularis, what was the wind direction if they were in mountains, what was their heading, etc were they low level or medium level. Aircraft and in particular high performance jets have been brought down in the past by turbulence. If you are transiting at 1000AGL and hit a standing wave with a downward velocity of 8000 ft per minute, then you are in the sh*t. But I say again, I know none of the details so won't be roped in to speculation, so please excuse me, I am sure you understand. The only comment I have, having been involved with Boards of Inquiry, is that the statement from the Thai Air Force claiming that turbulence was to blame, is extremely early as no investigation has taken place and no data recorder information had been studied at the time of the statement. It is therefore, not a statement that was prudent to make.

Hope that answers your question.

Hawkup2000

Understood, thanks!I imagine it has knocked everyone on the unit for 6. Hope everyone gets back on track soon. Sincere condolences to the family (you say you live nearbye). I have sent a pm.

Well, he has completely utterly blown it! A life of total privilege straight down the toilet. he deserves life in prison, but is now also under threat of execution should he return to Saudi. The family of the poor man he killed will at least get some sort of justice, not that that can bring their son back. Amusingly, the Prince thought he could claim Diplomatic Immunity and get away with it! Drugs , yes, parking fines, yes, brutal murder, no!

The Prince that was!!

Sentencing is to be done today.

I've got an old shirt I wore at the funeral of Winston Churchill.....offers above 100,000 baht accepted

Have you washed it yet?

I was just hoping some of you knowledgeable chaps from the flood areas could enlighten us (well me I suppose, although I am sure others are interested) as to the damage that the floods have caused to crops and agriculture this year. From a laymans perspective it looks like everything in the affected area would be destroyed, is this the case? although I am unsure what crops are due for harvest. What scale is the destruction on (if any) and what prognosis does that give for a) The farmers and food supply in general in the forthcoming months in Thailand. Sorry if it's a dull question but I am interested and cannot get an understanding from local news as to the extent of the potential problem.

Thanks.

It can certainly be a quiz show sometimes trying to sort out what is meant in these reports. If they did mean hydrazine, while it is toxic, it's not radioactive.

Spot on. It is Hydrazine by the way, it is a well known hazard at all F-16 crash sites but dissipates eventually. In this instance the only people it will damage are locals who go in to the forest and start wandering around the wreckage straight away. I have been scratching my head over what might be radioactive, and apart from the luminous paint on the standby artificial horizon or the pilots watch (tongue firmly in cheek!), there is nothing on the aircraft that would present a radioactive hazard, unless..............they were carrying something that nobody knows about!!....but my opinion is, it is just crap reporting, so situation normal.

Anymore news Hawkup2000?

I wonder why he could not eject?

I didn't even know Thailand had active fighter jets.

Apparently they do - according to the report they seem to have 60 (F16s, not counting all the other aircraft types), and they want us to think that they are all operational at the same time. Unfortunately none o fthem can land on the Royal Thai Aircraft Carrier. or can they do that too?

Amazing Thailand .

The F-16 was not designed for carrier operations, and the Royal Thai Carrier, is designed to take Harrier/Av8s and helicopters anyway. Furthermore, any Air Force with 60 fighter/bombers such as the F-16 cannot hope to have them all servicable at the same time. Out of 60 then to have 40 servicable would be excellent, the rest would be on varying levels of servicing/maintenance or simply used as spare parts to keep the others going.

So what's your point? or are you just trying to have a go at them for no reason?

to observe any health irregularity since radioactive Hydrosyn substance was found to have leaked from the wreckage.

Can only find reference to Hydosyn used as a lubricant, grease, or hydraulic fluid, so not sure where they are getting the notion that it is radioactive.

They spelled it wrong. They meant to say, hydrazine, a very toxic substance, often used in rocket propellants, it presents the greatest hazard at any F-16 crash site.

UKfool

To be honest I guess as long as the military learn the truth and the family learns the truth that's the important thing. In terms of future accident prevention it would be nice if the Thai Air Force disclose the truthful details for the use of other Air Forces operating F-16's, or if there is a large Human Factors element involved, we could all learn from it. I understand your reservations though.

So the anti drug panel have said

"There is no dispute that this case represents the accidental ingestion of a Prohibited Substance," the panel said in its decision.

Furthermore, the panel said that athletes are not being warned about the use of products that deal with sexual functioning, which made the case unique. "As argued by Mr. Merritt, a person would not anticipate that they could test positive for a steroid from purchasing a product at a 7 Eleven Store," the panel said,

"Purchasing a product at a 7 Eleven Store is different than purchasing a product at a Vitamin supplement store, for which athletes have been consistently warned," the panel continued.

Finally, the panel also agreed that Merritt purchased the product while he was in the off season and had taken a break from competition, which was his first break in two years. "His guard was down and his positive tests can in no way be said to have affected any competitions," the panel said.

AND they still punish him!! <deleted>! A 21 Month ban and he loses points and medals. What a crock of sh*t.

As for the reasons why he took the tablets, that will plague him for the rest of his life now. Poor sod.

Bird strike comes to mind.. F-16 is also single engine, pilots like to try to save the craft rather than eject. Hitting a mountain would indicate something distracted the pilot.

Whilst a bird strike is a distinct possibility, your comment concerning Pilots preferring to save the aircraft rather than eject is totally wrong. I guarantee that if the Pilot had time to think at all, then knowing his aircraft was going down in mountains, he would have pulled the handle and been out. The speculation on here is just totally unnecessary. A board of Inquiry will be convened and an investigation carried out, until then the causes and factors involved in the tragedy remain unknown to anyone.

There are also what appears to be some attempts at some sort of sicko humour, such as "maybe e couldn't read the instructions in English", a comment which is pretty inappropriate really!

RIP

Yes, but the difference is that I am using specific data from history books to back up my beliefs, while you and your ilk are posting almost nothing but baseless accusations, justifications for the Holocaust and far out conspiracy theories.

The "truth"? How about some facts, Jack?

Well that depends who writes the books really. And don't start the 'you and your ilk' routine. I gave up posting on here days ago. I have not posted any baseless accusations, nor have I posted anything at all that could be remotely seen as Holocaust Justification, nor any conspiracy theories. Check YOUR facts Jack. Don't bother replying, I'm out of here!

Another pointless Hamster wheel. Ulysees' ideas are as blinkered and as entrenched in this thread as Jingthing was in the doomed Argentinian thread. It is futile arguing with him or indeed spending a nanosecond of your time trying to persuade him to look at the truth, time that you will never get back and is much better used elsewhere.

Hamster wheel, going nowhere.

Not exactly. Argentina is a sovereign nation. A nation of immigrants mostly, yes, but independent. It is not a colony.

A nation of immigrant colonists, with no right to the islands where other colonists have lived for 100 years more than the nation has existed. End of game Jingthing.

Well I left it alone for 48 hours, come back and it's still going round and round. Jingthing, reading the last two pages you really seem to have some issues, honestly, get help.

One question for you Jingthing before you go and get help

you said

Argies are mostly white,

How on Earth can most Argentinians be white? Can you explain that?

OMG! Immigration dude. Mostly from Europe. It's the whitest major country in Latin America. Very few blacks or Indios compared to other S. American countries. They consider themselves to be EUROPEAN and they do indeed have some pretty amazing psychological complexes as a nation, probably one reason I am charmed by them.

I knew really Jingthing, I just wanted to hear it from you. So you mean they are all colonists right? colonists who arrived after the legal documented ownership of the Falklands by the British. Colonists who did not have a country called Argentina until 100 years after the Brits had colonised the Falklands. So you think it is ok for colonists to come along 100 years later, take a different country, call it Argentina, and then say 150 years later, we want that Island it is ours becaue the Brits were colonists.?

Sorry Jingthing, teaching kids something in school is no foundation for a foreign policy, just ask Japanese school kids, world war 2 is never discussed, nor the invasion of China and the rape of Nanking, does that mean it didn't happen? Of course not. Telling school children the Falklands is really Argentinian, does that make it theirs? NO I don't think so.

Check Mate

What do you say now Jingthing? Oh that's it.... Next!

Go find your next game Jingthing, nothing more to be said here, you lost!

I am sure there is much more mischief you can get up to on the Israeli thread.

Well I left it alone for 48 hours, come back and it's still going round and round. Jingthing, reading the last two pages you really seem to have some issues, honestly, get help.

One question for you Jingthing before you go and get help

you said

Argies are mostly white,

How on Earth can most Argentinians be white? Can you explain that?

Ulysees

Actually, there was never a Palestine (other than the Jewish one) or a Palestinian people. There was mostly a big desert and there were always Jews there, as well as stateless Arabs.

The Jews - whose families had been there forever - legally bought land for Jewish settlers and worked it and made it fruitful, but the Arabs were jealous and wanted it back and tried to drive them off of it (and into the sea).

The Jews fought back and asked the UN for help. The UN approved two states to settle the problem, but when the Jews declared independence they were attacked by four huge Arab countries whose butt they kicked.

When the next flight from planet Thargon leaves for Earth, jump on it and lets talk about the history of Palestine on Earth.

Palestine WAS a real country with REAL people. Prior to being Muslim, the Palastinians were Christian. They were under Ottoman Rule until the Brits were 'given' them after world war 1. There was no 'jew's asking for help' and being 'Driven in to the sea. Hundreds of thousands of jewish refugees came to the area between 1920 and 1930, they were welcome there was no problem. In 47/48 the UN (kicked off by the Brits), with two million people living in Palestine, 1/3 of them Jews, established two seperate states, one of Israel and one of Palastine. Two thirds of the Arabic population were forced in to neighboring countries and have been unable to return. It was not just desert it was populated and productive land.

You know I could go on but I have suddenly realised it is futile with folks like yourself and Jingthing.So I am just going to stop writing. I take neither side, but make it my responsibility to get to the bottom of things. I am sorry your education system lied to you in order to promote the agenda of governments, but the truth is out there scully! Believe no Government. Go find it for yourself.

The maps speak volumes. I'd sure be fighting the 'invaders' I tell you.

Jingthing (I know yur reading you just can't resist it), Ulysees

I find your knowledge or interpretation of history once again staggering.

The nation now known as Israel was taken from the people that had lived there for centuries and given to someone else. If that were done to you and your family then you would fight and undertake War. The Israelis were given a generous amount of territory - only 60 years ago! Yet that was not enough, they took more once they had their feet under the table. They took more land from the annexed Palestinians. Jingthing, re your arguments that the Falklands should be returned to the Argentinians because they have been 'raped of the lands and resources', how does it sit with you that the Israelis continue to take more land.?

All food, water in fact everything that goes in to Gaza is strictly controlled. They are not permitted concrete with which to build or repair buildings, they build knew houses with Mud!, Mud houses Jingthing! The Israelis have built a wall to annex off the Palestinians that puts the Berlin Wall to shame.

Funny if I say Americans are bad, I get accused of yank bashing, if I say Israelis are bad, I am accused of anti-semitism. It's like I said to you before Jingthing, you always play the victim card and so do the Israeli's.

One day when you see what they are ultimately up to you and your like will say Oh My f*****g God!

An amazing feat of teamwork and engineering, resulting in an extraordinary rescue effort. Congratulations to everyone.

I stand corrected, but have a bit of a problem with the 'war criminal' part. No offence, difference of opinion I guess.

Its mainstream thinking in the UK these days, if youve time google "Tony Blair War Criminal", there is plenty of compelling evidence, even words coming from his own mouth, and he is an extremely intelligent man who realises exactly what hes saying.

Never has there been a Prime Minister despised so much so many, even Thatcher who in my area helped create 25% unemployment by shutting heavy industry such as coal mining and shipbuilding ruining entire towns isnt so despised.

Did some yahoo-ing (my preferred search engine since DEC started AltaVista around 1995) and found interesting articles. Oldest from 2003!

From this quick read-up it seems especially Tony's Labor voters got upset, but can't confirm.

I guess I have to change my opinion from 'a bit of a problem with war criminal' to 'no comment till read more'

I would just like to say how refreshing it is to see someone, when given more information and facts on a subject they had an opinion on, change and modify that opinion, as a result of considering all the additional info. How grown up and mature. Jingthing, take note!!

Jingthing

See, you can't even identify an Underdog correctly!

Is your middle name Adhominen?

No but it would be rather fetching as a middle name! But if you would present an argument for people to play against, they would not be forced to play the person would they? Anyway, guess we have done this one to death. Thanks for the sport<_< Rule Britannia!

Jingthing

See, you can't even identify an Underdog correctly! From the first audition, Susan Boyle was odds on favourite to win.

I thought I answered it. Oh well ...

Not even remotely.

This has turned in to a hamster wheel.

Why is there no emoticon for banging your head against a brick wall?