Strange

Ok, you are smart - just a bit insecure - I get it.

As for your description of me, hmm let's check.

Brit = No sorry, try again

Pot Bellied = prefer to be called moderately round

Frequents alot of bars = I go to alot of bars but not that frequently

For the record, I have an extremely high opinion of people who are fit, yet still like the taste of beer in the morning.

Spineless Coward = Check

Projecting envy/jealousy with smartass comments = Check

Alcoholic = Check

Overweight = Check

Injury avoidance is a key part of the workout if you want to do it a long time and improve, not injure, your body. Not all have perfect form. Fewer yet as the weight gets heavy. Machines can replicate full range of motion with less chance of injury. So the classic compound exercises are not the only way to go.

I dont agree with you and many of the top trainers also dont agree with you. Machines are nice for gym owners so they dont have to hire trainers to supervise the ppl in the gym. Im not saying that machines are not usefull but they can never replace compounds. You don't stabilize yourself when you use a machine so you dont get as much out it then what you get out of a compound.

Well, it's OK for you to disagree but I'm not sure about the top trainers.

I would bet that you will find HammerStrength machines or similar in the training room of most. professional sports teams. I see them in the background during interviews on tv all the time.

They can supplement or replace compounds. Up to you. Local joke. Actually, for the reason I mentioned, heavier weight with less risk of injury, it is a valid reason to go this route. Not all (many?) of us are 21. So compounds may be better but not necessary.

Lol, Of course there are Hammer Strength machines in every gym. Top bodybuilding trainers have them, everyone has them. Normally they are used after your compound moves for a given body part. Example: legs, and again this is just an example. Start with squat. Do your sets, then move to your Hammerstrength leg extention, then maybe hit some Stiff Leg Dead Lift, then over to your Hammer strength lying leg curl and isolate your hams. The idea is that you would do your compound first, then your isolation/machine exercise. This is just an example.

You wouldnt just do the leg curl and extention and call it a day.

Isn't there a big difference between training for bodybuilding or strenght?

The martialarts/strenght forum I use and read is for strenght purposes and those guys all of them recommend HEAVY low repetition weight training. Bodybuilders seem to favor up to 12 reps and lots of similar excersises.

Yes, the idea is, that with HEAVY weight and low reps, you are just training for pure strength/mass. They dont really care about being lean or having visible abs. Just to move a weight from A to B

The American top MMA fighter Josh Barnett gave an interview on how he trained and it was compound exercise mixed with variations of 'natural' training like beating a tire with a sledgehammer. Real strenght comes from free weight exercise with natural movements that include many muscles, but I think for size it could actually be more effective to work very isolated exercises.

Barnett is training for a specific goal. FIghters, especially MMA really train for fighting. Torso rotation, explosive strength, muscular endurance. The idea is to last longer than the other guy, and be stronger (if possible) in your weight class. Im sure you already know all this. Bodybuilders, for the most part, are mainly focused on appearance/symmetry. My brother likes MMA, and trains. I tried beating a tire with a sledgehammer, and, yeah, that is freaking hard. I can definately see how that would help a fighter.

The key in what I have learned is heavy weights and constant progression.

Exactly.

Then again if the goal is to impress the ladies then frequent Muay Thai training at a real thai gym will probably give a better result, it's amazing how fast you'll get in top shape. The Thai girls I've met doesn't seem to care much for muscles, until I lift them up and throw them around a bit

Last 2 girlfriends said the same thing, but it dosent stop them from feeling my arms/shoulders when im sweating my ass of bangin them out

The OP has faded into the background. Which is just as well. He was a dreamer not a doer. The clue was in the " I'm an average guy with average build but willing to do extreme workouts". If he was willing to go extreme, he would not be average!

As for the rest of you guys, can't we all just get along? Most of you are working out but one or two of you (strangely) seem to think you know all the answers. Nobody knows all the answers. There are many good ways to get fitter, and most of them have been covered.

Well, can you explain what "Fit" Means to you? Because its such a broad term. Lose fat? Gain Muscle? Run farther? Get stronger? Because unfortunately, without pushing yourself further than you would normally, or going harder than you did previously did last time, and doing this consistently, you will never really see any change. Doing the same light weight everyday, or swimming the same distance everyday, or running the same time everyday, and never trying to push yourself to get better time, weight, distance, then nothing will ever change.

Fact is, with gaining muscle, there is only one way.

Guaranteed, someone that comes to the gym, and wants to get "fit", who does the same light weight every other day, without effort or struggling, will never change his body, nor, will be become "fit". Why? Because hes doing the same thing he could do already.

And yes, one or two of us in here very much DO know alot about training.

Yes, I'll grant that you obviously know a lot about training. But you are not the only one (or two). Unless you are a certified trainer ( the real kind) or sport M.D., you are just a gifted amateur.

I don't know anyone who goes to the gym to do the same "light" weights everyday, unless we are talking about fat girls. Everyone knows you need progressive resistance ( with possible exception of the OP). The question then becomes how to use this concept to become fitter, which covers everything you mentioned with the running part being questionable unless you like to run.

Injury avoidance is a key part of the workout if you want to do it a long time and improve, not injure, your body. Not all have perfect form. Fewer yet as the weight gets heavy. Machines can replicate full range of motion with less chance of injury. So the classic compound exercises are not the only way to go.

Right, im not a "personal trainer" and IMO they are a joke. 90% that I have met, dont even train, or even look "fit" and sport MD's mainly focus on injury prevention/maintenance.

There are 1000's of people that would disagree with your last paragraph.

Guaranteed, someone that comes to the gym, and wants to get "fit", who does the same light weight every other day, without effort or struggling, will never change his body, nor, will be become "fit". Why? Because hes doing the same thing he could do already.

OK when you next go to the gym bench press whatever is your limit and do 10 reps, how you would normally do it.

Then half this weight and do as many reps as you can, but count to 6 on your way up and 6 on your way down, you will struggle to get to 5.

This without doubt is a far harder way to do any exercise ..... and i agree with you that whatever you find harder is better for you.

Over time this will give a better shape then lifting weights you struggle to get to 8 reps with, and will give you a better kind of strength that wont be lost when you dont go to the gym for a month or 2 IMO.

For once you are making sense! Good on you man! I use both ways. both ways your intensity is the same, and you are going to failure (almost).

I dont know about a differnt kinda strength though.

Why would you stop for a month or 2?

I think most serious guys just don't share the same views as sanmiguellight if its about gaining muscle. There is nothing wrong with his training to get in shape, but to gain muscle fast the other approaches mentioned are better.

But i agree that to build muscle fast you should lift as much as possible and eat a hel_l of a lot, my point is this guy in the pic who the OP aspires to look like doesnt look as if he lifts extremely heavy weights more that he keeps himself all round fit over a long period of time, if the OP wishes to look like him he needs an all round workout not just pumping masses of iron.

I am physically able to lift far more then these super fit boxers, but i'd much rather id spent the last 12 years training like they have as opposed to lifting heavy weights as i have been doing ... it does give you a buzz at the time and makes you fell good after lifting a lot of weight but its far easier getting strong this way then to do an all round workout where you are pushing your body in more ways then just lifting, hence the difficult way is the better way.

A weight training routine, that includes LEGS, arms, chest, back, and shoulders, with cardio if your fat, and none if you are skinny, will give you this physique. This includes Squat, Bench, Bent BB row, Deadlifts, Pullups, Dips, etc... You will get strong, and bigger, give that you eat right. Not 300 situps, and lifting a weight that you dont struggle with.

The OP has faded into the background. Which is just as well. He was a dreamer not a doer. The clue was in the " I'm an average guy with average build but willing to do extreme workouts". If he was willing to go extreme, he would not be average!

As for the rest of you guys, can't we all just get along? Most of you are working out but one or two of you (strangely) seem to think you know all the answers. Nobody knows all the answers. There are many good ways to get fitter, and most of them have been covered.

Well, can you explain what "Fit" Means to you? Because its such a broad term. Lose fat? Gain Muscle? Run farther? Get stronger? Because unfortunately, without pushing yourself further than you would normally, or going harder than you did previously did last time, and doing this consistently, you will never really see any change. Doing the same light weight everyday, or swimming the same distance everyday, or running the same time everyday, and never trying to push yourself to get better time, weight, distance, then nothing will ever change.

Fact is, with gaining muscle, there is only one way.

Guaranteed, someone that comes to the gym, and wants to get "fit", who does the same light weight every other day, without effort or struggling, will never change his body, nor, will be become "fit". Why? Because hes doing the same thing he could do already.

And yes, one or two of us in here very much DO know alot about training.

I'm looking for a decent gym (decent in terms of having a good free weights section) near Khao san road. Having a pool isn't really essential and I can run in a park.

Any ideas and rough prices?

California wow is in pin klao its not too far. Dont do the life time membership because they might go under. Its a nice gym i have been there a few times.

I was in the california wow on the corner of Suk Soi 23 about 2 weeks ago. Only needed 2 days, and they charged me 800 Baht for 2 days. It was late, and I really needed a gym so I said ok. I went to the same one, about 2 months before, and they tried to charge me 1200 baht for 1 day! I walked out. You get a free towel, what you have to turn in when you leave. Just be sure to bring anything that you like to train with. LIfting straps/weight belts/etc. Because they dont supply anything. Bring your own water, and also, they will not let you put anything in thier refridgerator.

But in your area, there are alot of mainly thai gyms that are very adequite. Usually 100 baht per day for non member. Have water,belts,straps, hand guards, and everything there for you to use, and you can use thier fridge as well. Some have aircon, some dont, just talk to some motorbike taxis.

Good luck bro

If you read what i said i got big as i had chronic tendonitis in both knees and was unable to run of do leg exercises for 6 monhts hence only done upper body and got to 88KG when im only 5'9, about 78-80KG is a good strong weight for someone of my height IMO.

But even with tendentious, you could still walk, you could still watch what you eat, and you could still up your lifting intensity to keep your heart-rate up.

But you dont seem to get it im not obsessed by the gym i go to keep fit, i mentioned going to the boxing in Pattaya as it was fcuken hard working out in 35-degrees not as a boast why the <deleted> would i boast about 6 weeks in a boxing gym its hardly as if ive gone 12 rounds with Tyson when he was in his prime for a 5 million dollar purse, you come across as someone frequents gyms religously and watches everything he eats and fair play to you.

And youre the one making presumptions about me and accusing me of lieing, so get your head of your obviously well maintained septic ass and realise there is more to life then the gym.

Well, good luck to you. There is alot more to life than the gym.

PS Im 34 and past really pushing myself so have no intention of going to any gyms in Burriram i'll leave that for super athletes like yourself.

Thats cool too...

PPS Have you ever made 1 baht out of your oh so perfect gym regime, if not maybe youre not the athlete you claim to be.

I hardly have any aspirations to make any baht out of my training. Ive read/studied/learned/trained for years now, and I take this stuff seriously. Im not a cover model, and I dont care to be, its a hobby of mine, and a lifestyle. I really aggravates me when people (you) come on here a spit usless crap out of they mouthes. You dont know what you are talking about, you use crap like "Steroid Freak" "wanke_r" to illustrate your opinions, because you dont have any legitimate arguments.

Are you trying to tell me all scientists tell people to work out the steroid freak way with creatinge and supplements. And that scientists dont recommend running as part of a balanced workout? And that eating a healthy diet of fruit and veg and lean meat and rice and pasta needs to be supplemented with expensive protein shakes ....... you are aware that your body can get all the nutrients it needs from food alone. Im not saying protein shakes wont help in becoming bigger quicker but there is no need for them for the average guy who goes to the gym

Dude, no. the above screams ignorance. Everyone needs their FOOD diet on target, nobody is arguing that. Im talking about weight training programs and diets, catered to your specific goals, that are scientifically PROVEN to be effective. In the end, muscular hypertrophy followed by the food/fuel to heal will give you the gains you want. No steroids, no magic, no fancy stuff. Thats fact. And I dont take creatine. Even if I did, its not freaking steroids, and its not magic. Running is great, but again, its goal-specific. A skinny guy trying to get bigger, and has a hard time gaining muscle mass, does not need to run. Im not talking about boxers, just a guy that wants to get bigger.

Here you go. I weigh 200 lbs. For a man like me, I need 1.5g protien per 1 lb of weight I carry. Thats 300g per day. This, will give me the protien I need for healing/recovery. Now, 1 lean chicken breast has 25g protien. Thats 12 chicken breasts per day that I would have to eat of REAL FOOD. And thats just the protien, NOT counting carbs, or fats that I need. Think about that. Everyone is different, but again, its goal/bodytype-specific.

Doing your 4-8 reps of weights is a w4nkers way to get strong you end up looking like you walk with potatos under your arms, lift reasonable weights nice and slowly in the correct motion doing 10-15 reps is far better i can assure you will feel the burn after several reps.

I lift weights in EVERY rep-range. When Im training heavy, trust me, I feel the burn. But to be honest, I dont really care about the "Burn" what I care about is if Im sore in the target muscle area in 1-2 days after I train them. If Im sore, then I know ive done the damage to the fibers needed to grow OR maintain size. Lmao "wanke_rs" its not a wanke_rs way, its the real way.

But we are talking about getting healthy like the geezer on the pic not to become an angry steroid freak like you aspire to be, the reason i got so big was i get tendonitis in my knees and couldnt run or do leg exercises for 6 months hence only done upper body and became far too big but youd know far better wouldnt you.

I havent taken any cheap shots you, so have a little respect. My physique/fitness level dominates you in everyway. You are full of excuses. If you were getting too big, (witch I doubt) then you need to change your diet, and add cardio. Its common knowledge.

As for you telling me i dont keep fit, well thanks for telling me all the effort i put in throughout my life was a waste and that i keep quitting, maybe that 6 weeks of intensive boxing training 3 days out of 4 in the summer heat of Pattaya April/May 09 never really happened.

Thats cool man, and congradulations! But to be honest, the thais in my area train non-stop from age 9 until 25ish non-stop and are completely humble about thier achievements. You could learn something from them. Get out of pattaya for a while, and take a trip to a real camp. Burriram has some great ones.

@sanmiglight

Well, man, that is YOUR opinion. Fact is, that scientifically proven methods of weight training and diet are what should be aspired to. Especially when giving advice to people that have no idea, then they can make their own opinions.

Anyway, like I said, you just don't want to do the real work. You never looked like a steroid freak, and you were never a huge bodybuilder. How do I know this? Because your knowledge of training is nonexistent. You might go to the gym sometime but then you get bored/discouraged, then quit.

Hope I am not off topic here, I am certainly not interested in body building...........but the other day I was a bit disappointed not being able to find a website that describes simple excercises that can be done at home/at work without using equipment, preferably with illustrations to make clear how exactly to carry out those excercises.

You can do kegels sitting at your desk

Seriously though, what are your aspirations? Or your goals?

You have to remember we are talking about a beginner?No way his body could handle upper body exercises 3 times per week without steroids.

Why do you say that?

I began lifting in earnest in Iraq where the weather and a tendancy for people to shoot at you precluded many other types of exercise. Granted, I had a basic fitness level, but I went into upper body workouts three times a week without taking any supplements, much less steroids.

The difference between now and then is that the weights I lifted were much lighter then, and now I have interjected a few other items in my routine that other people have shown me.

Im not trying to flame, but can I ask you what your goals were, training upperbody 3X/week?

Seriously, just curious.

Jackman does not have an astronomical physique. The dude works out. Thats about it. Nothing about his size/fitness level is magazine cover worthy.

Jackman obviously has the looks and physique that is considered highly appealing to women throughout the world which is most likely the reason that he has appeared on hundreds of magazine covers throughout the world so the fact that you do not think he is cover worthy is likely to be highly irrelevant. Astronomical physiques, as you describe them, seem to appeal more to the bodybuilder magazines and men's musclehead crowd however to each his own as I prefer to have a physique that is attractive and appeals to the majority of mainstream women.

The reason Jackman is on magazine covers is because he is a Superstar Actor, not because he should be a fitness model. Seriously, US and Thailand, there are people everyday that have physiques much the same as Jackman, and they are not featured in fitness mags. I dont see the reason to drool over this physique, hes a millionare actor, with the best trainers/nutritionalists money can buy. And no, not bodybuilder mags, or "musclehead crowds" but the photo that started this thread is hardly amazing. This is my opinion.

Everyone has the same muscle fiber type. The amount you have, you can change. The only thing that is different are the insertion points/attachment areas that are different. Hence the reason people have different appearing body's. Genetics allow some people to add mass/get lean exceptionally easily.

Although everyone has both slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fiber, they have different amounts or ratios of them in their body and you cannot change one type into the other. These muscle fibers have different characteristics in the human body, one of which is that bodies with more fast twitch tend to have bulkier muscles due to hypertrophy, whereas bodies with higher amounts of slow twitch are generally longer and thinner). I will agree with you however that insertion/attachment points determined by genetics also play a big part.

Fast/Slow Fibers

Never said you could change from one to the other. I said the AMOUNT of Muscle and Size you CAN change. Regardless of if you are a skinny guy, or a big guy. You want bigger arms, chest, whatever, you can change it. Another guy might "genetically" have a bigger chest, but you can still change yours.

Just for arguments sake, why are you so opposed to steroids?

I have no interest in arguing the case about steroid use as everyone is entitled to treat or abuse their body in any way they see fit. In my case, I have perfect genetics and have trained naturally all my life with fantastic results so why would I not be opposed to most steroids which have nothing to offer me and in most cases, in my opinion, have not proven to be totally safe for long term use.

Fair enough.

If someone kicks sand in your face just kick them in the nuts and get another beer

Whatever happened to Charles Atlas?

You better hope they dont workout

You think one day's rest between leg sessions is enough? Uh-uh. One day between different muscle groups maybe but one day between the same is definitely classed as overtraining.

In the short term ie a few months ive done this and built up mass, but i agree over a long term this would be overtraining.

As for creatine there have been so many studies on it you can pick and choose what answer you wish to find, unless youre a serious weightlifter or and athlete or training to a similar level i cant see a need for this.

Youre right about fat / muscle, but the muscle will lose tone and will appear flabby, i should know ive gone this way and am in the long process of running it off and changing my exercise regime.

Well, not to be an assh*le, but do yourself a favor and get more knowledge before you start. Most of the things you are saying are wrong/ineffective. Training like this will lead you to being burned out and quitting before you see any real things happen. Time for a new battleplan, my friend.

That bloke in the picture doesnt look as if he lifts heavy weights more that he has worked out for a long time.

No, he looks like he trains. You are missing the point. Training intensity does not change, diet and rep-range changes. Heavy weight would mean that you reach failure at rep 6 in a set. With lighter weight, you reach failure at rep 12 in a set. You are still reaching failure in both examples, and you are will taxing your body in both examples. Intensity is the same. Just training in a different rep range.

"What ive said works for me, if i were to lift exceptionally heavy weights which i used to i end up looking like one of them them steroid freaks who walk around Pattaya, in the short term itll make you look good but after a while youll end up being fat as not many people are going to lift heavy weights for the rest of their lives and that extra muscle will turn to flab."

Muscle will never, ever, turn to flab. They are 2 different things. You never looked like a steroid freak. You are just misguided, and scared to do the real work. I don't even know what to say really.

300 Situps isnt the same as doing 300 curls well unless you done the curls with extremely low weights if you done 3 different sections of your abs this would work.

Maybe, but training them the same as any other muscle group in the body will be exponentially more effective. Using the bicep as an example, there are 2 heads of that muscle group. Therefore by your theroy, you should use a reprange of 100 per set. Does that sound effective?

If you do legs upperbody 3 times a week each on alternative days this gives a day to rest and enable muscle to growth.

If you can physically train legs everyother day, you are not training hard enough. Does not matter if you are trying to get your legs bigger, or to lose fat, or anything. Only thing that will change is diet and reprange.

But different things work for different people you need to know your own body

Swear to god my girlfriend sayd the same thing. She says it because she does not want to do the work, and therefore her body will never change.

As most posters have already mentioned, to ever even having a chance of getting anywhere close to having a body like Jackman in 5 months, you will need 4 things-the right genetics, correct weight training, proper diet, and steroids. Even with all 4 components, 5 months is probably too short of a time. The most important component (because either you have it or you don't) is correct genetics which determines muscle fiber type and amount of fiber. If you do not have the correct genetics, you might develop a fairly good body but there is no chance that you will have a body like Jackman even if you work out for the next 100 years. I am personally very opposed to steroids but they do work as is evidenced by the photos below. With the right steroids, you might even be able to develop a body like the girl with the tank top slogan "daddy's little girl" on it !

Jackman does not have an astronomical physique. The dude works out. Thats about it. Nothing about his size/fitness level is magazine cover worthy.

The most important component (because either you have it or you don't) is correct genetics which determines muscle fiber type and amount of fiber

Everyone has the same muscle fiber type. The amount you have, you can change. The only thing that is different are the insertion points/attachment areas that are different. Hence the reason people have different appearing body's. Genetics allow some people to add mass/get lean exceptionally easily.

Just for arguments sake, why are you so opposed to steroids?

Not good advice here, I'm sorry to say.

Running for 45 mins 3 times a week may not be necessary for a hard gainer i.e. an ectomorph. Sure it'll keep you fit but it's likely to impede growth if anything.

300 situps every other day is entirely pointless. The abs are no different from any other muscle group in the body and therefore do not respond to excessive training any more than other muscles do. You wouldn't do 300 bicep curls every other day now would you? Quality, not quantity is the key with abdominal exercises.

Lifting weights that you aren't struggling with is unlikely to bring solid muscle growth. Muscles need to be overloaded in order for the fibres to break and grow back bigger and stronger. This simply does not happen with light weights / high reps. If you're NOT struggling to complete a set then you aren't sufficiently stressing the muscles and will see little change in them consequently.

Doing legs 3 times a week leaves little time for rest. Growth takes place during rest periods NOT during workouts.

Creatine is by no means a waste of money, it's scientifically proven to enhance performance and if you understand anything about energy processes within the body, then you'd know that creatine as an oral supplement can assist in the production of adenosine triphosphate through the phosphocreatine system.

100% correct. Practically stole the words out of my mouth.

We need to see what you look like, I mean your current physique. I wouldn't post it on here (thaivisa) but you can PM me.

Dont even think about steroids. You dont have enough training/experience/nutrition knowledge. I takes months/years to learn about how to effectively use AAS, and to differentiate between the propaganda you hear about steroids, and the facts.

IMO - if your in thailand, then just go ahead and lose the thought of a personal trainer. Ive been to a few gyms here, California WOW, Life Fitness, bla bla, and the "trainers" there are failures on an epic level. I could never take advice from someone that does not even train. Your better off reading up on your own. Again, this is my opinion.

Nutrition is 70% of training. Special "training" programs are nothing if you are not eating right. Stop drinking alcohol, soda. 80% of what you can drink will be water. 20% will be a bit of milk, and juice. Drink water until your urine is 100& clear. Then drink more. Eat everything clean. Low salt. Lots of lean chicken.

Everything you will do will be progressive, and you will be sore. Dont have to kill yourself, but if you are not tearing your muscles down, they will not grow bigger. The first 4-6 weeks is the most difficult.

Dont listen to people that are negative. They are usually the people that are fat/hairy/nasty, and think everyone should be that way. Dont train for anyone but yourself. Dont listen to anyone that says "Girls dont like big muscles" too. Even the girls that say that, are full of crap. Goes back to prehistoric days. The "alpha" male gets to breed, and the others get to cry.

There is no 50% with this stuff. Really its all or nothing. Dosent matter if you are trying to lose fat or get bigger.

Train hard for 2-3 years. If you did everything right, you should have a pretty decent transformation. You aint gonna be Arnold, or Jackman.

Thanks for your reply.Include you find a spec of the whey isolate I was talking about including the amino acid profile.Please post your comments about.

Well, its dicieving to me because all the numbers are for 100g. I dont think that 100g is 1 serving. 100g = 89g protien, and thats too much for a serving. I think its going to be more like 40-50g for a serving. So you have to take all the numbers that they give you, and divide by half...

That said, its still not bad. But, if using for only pre/post workout. You have to add some things to it. Calories/fat are not bad. Sugar is good also.

So, 50g serving = 45g protien, 186 cals. Its pretty much JUST protien. So its up to the consumer to know HOW to use it.

I have to say, this stuff loks pretty good actually. BCAA's look good, almost no fat/lactose (No protien farts)

Where are you getting this stuff again?

Actually what makes optimum whey so special?

I also heard a lot of it but only today I took a look at the specs and found that it contains only 79% protein and 3.29 % fat so it is no whey isolate as that contains minimum 90% protein.

If I look at the bulk protein that thaisupplements sells and which I use at the moment,it has 93% protein dry basis and <1.2% fat(shown on the analysis which is always attached).It is lower in sugar,potassium and sodium so actually better.

The whey protein isolate from TS is provon 290 from Glanbia.

Can some of you explain what makes the optimum a better choice.

Isolate is just only whey protien. ON Whey has vitamins, minerals, BCAA's. Small amounts of sugar and sodium are actually good for you. With the Isolate you still have to/need to suppliment other vitamins. ON Whey, just mix and go. also, the price is good, and they are very well known. If im going to be eating something 1-2-3 times a day, I want the product to be very well known.

On a side note, check this out:

ThaiSupp product:

All The Whey

All the whey website:

Salmonella

NOTIFICATION LETTER

Urgent!

All the Whey announces a voluntary recall of the following lot numbers, as a precaution:

9108 9115 9122

9129 9136 9143

9150 9157 9164

9171 9178 9185

9192

These lot numbers refer to Whey Protein Blend; Whey Protein Concentrate; Supermass 600; and Optiblend. These products were produced and distributed on April or May of 2009.

We have been contacted by one our protein suppliers that whey protein concentrate in these lot numbers has been voluntarily recalled.

These lots have the potential to be contaminated with Salmonella, an organism which can cause serious and sometimes fatal infections in young children, frail or elderly people, and others with weakened immune systems. Healthy persons infected with Salmonella often experience fever, diarrhea (which may be bloody), nausea, vomiting and abdominal pain. In rare circumstances, infection with Salmonella can result in the organism getting into the bloodstream and producing more severe illnesses such as arterial infections

(i.e. infected aneurysms), endocarditis and arthritis.

Thanks for the Thai-muscle forum link. Looks interesting. I will have to check it out when home.

I have bought All the Whey protein powder from thaibodybuilding.net. It used to be around Bt 800 for a kilo, but they only sell 10lbs for Bt 3,550 at the moment.

Just checked their site and they advertise ON Gold whey 10lbs at Bt 4,050.

I used to take creatine but stopped. Keep meaning to start taking again as I found it helped.

I also take concentrated fish oil and a multivitamin, both Boots own brand.

Its a little annoying when you look at somewhere like myprotein.co.uk and see how cheap supplements are in the UK compared to here.

Anyone any suggestions on where to get cheaper flaxseed oil/fish oil, as Boots is quite expensive?

Dang, I never saw that website before. Thats not bad if you need stuff asap.

Thanks for the Thai-muscle forum link. Looks interesting. I will have to check it out when home.

I have bought All the Whey protein powder from thaibodybuilding.net. It used to be around Bt 800 for a kilo, but they only sell 10lbs for Bt 3,550 at the moment.

Just checked their site and they advertise ON Gold whey 10lbs at Bt 4,050.

Had a look at their website and it shows the ON at 4050 for 10 lbs.Will call them tomorrow for an order as this is even cheaper then us or europe.Actually it is cheaper then the 20 kg bulk you can buy in thailand.Do you know if they speak english as the site is thai only.

Also had a look at the all whey details but it shows 10 lbs or 1,200 kg.Clearly a mistake overthere.

I hope the optimum not turns out to be the price per kg.

Definately not cheaper than in the USA. USA = 2600 Baht roughly. But still - 4050 baht is still not bad considering Shipping/Import Dutys. Id be hard to get a better price if you imported it yourself.

I have faith in a few supplements:

- protein powders (as an addition to an already balanced diet)

- creatine for extra intense workouts

- cafeine for extra energy (would not use it too much but on certain occasions)

- fish oil (helps for a lot of things)

If your base diet isn't good you will not amount to much. Myself i have to be really careful of what i eat else i will get fat so no weight gainers for me. However if i'm clean bulking i use a protein powder and add some oats to it. All natural and good.

I do sell protein powders now but only the 10 lbs 4,5 kg ones from optimum nutritionand usually meet the person that want the stuff somewhere in BKK. So its cash on delivery. Makes it better for both parties, no insecurities about money or delivery.

The Thai-muscle site is good but a bit dead at the moment we need to find active members for it, this is hard because we are targeting sportive farangs who like to workout. Its hard to find active members and else its just the same persons who are posting.

Me, I use ON Whey to suppliment my meals, if I need a little extra protien. I use the ON Serious Mass as a MRP (Meal Replacement) in between meals. I have to basically drink 2 food meals per day because I cant physically eat that many calories per day. I do the Whey/Oat combo also. Thats good effective stuff.

I also use some stuff called SuperPump 250. Pre-workout drink for energy and power. Good stuff. Creatine,Caffine,Tuarine,NO, all in one.

Then Flax, and Multi.