Markaew

Yap Yap Yap... Talk about a bunch of trolls

The thread is what happens now ? ... everytime a new thread is added it gets hijacked into a mud slinging contest I can only conclude its the only thing some posters are here for.Some of us dont want to hear all the point scoring so go take it to the local bar

Moderators you need to tell people to stay on topic its getting ridiculous.

I agree but my bar is blockaded now.

Speaking of fleecing and divorces.

I went through a divorce a few months ago. I was very lucky. After months of fighting the wife, she just wanted out of the marriage but she had a thai woman attorney that was working for her pro bono that was like a pit bull. The attorney said we need go after these farang so they will learn they cannot treat thai women like they do. I had to laugh out loud when I heard this. After all the nonsense I went through and all the money she took from me I had to laugh when they thought I needed to be taught a lesson! Yes, I learned my lesson. Needless to say I believe marriage is a mistake and you can achieve the same thing without a government marriage.

The longer this goes on, the more radical the responses become. The thai people look at westerners as civilized. I see no evidence of that here.

It's all so simple! All Mr Abhisit has to do is to dissolve parliament now and call an eleciton at the earliest opportunity. Let the people decide. It should be their call. Then the army must guarantee that they will back the result.

Why doesn't this happen? Becaue Mr Abhisit knows he will lose. So he is prepared to spill Thai blood in an unseemly attempt to cling onto power at any cost.

No matter what side you are on, doesn't this sound like the logical conclusion?

What you state here will never stop. Thais are happy with their corruption. Someone in here wrote that 82% respondents to a survey stated that they are comfortable with the level of corruption in their society. They can't have their cake and eat it too. This unrest will always be here. Corruption is taught in schools and thais see nothing wrong with that.

Majority of 65 million people like corruption?

I think not allthough I haven't talked to the majority of the minority, I will still state you are very wrong.

Try to understand the basics of corruption first before assuming too much.

When I first arrived to Thailand I experienced corruption in the different government offices I had to visit.

The last 2-3 years that have changed.

I have driver license * 2, workpermit, visa, company and tax paper, all legit and haven't paid any extra "coffe" money to anyone so far.

Amazing how well treated I have been at the different state offices to get my papers.

I still haven't had to pay one single baht to any other official or police as I drive with legit driving license, keep the speed limits, wear a helmet when going on a motorbike.

With my car I have driven through big part of Thailand, still haven't been to isaarn though.

Have been stopped by police, military (in the south) to check for alcohol and papers but only met nice police officers/millitaries and officials.

I get more respect and fair treatment than by a Swedish official in any office or police.

These are my experiences but I have friends that have had problems with the above mentioned officials in Thailand, but it has always been something else involved from their part, screaming, trying to bribe their way through the system, no driving license, no helmet, drunk driving, speeding etc.

I'm a forreigner in this land and I try to comply to the rules that exists here, allthough I don't understand most of them and sometimes are confused how they are enforced but that's just how it is.

Like the situation, or not but then you do have a problem.

Would be fun to see a poll that actually went out to the average person in Thailand and where the majority would answer. What would the outcome be?

The only corrupt and scamming people I have come across so far are lawyers, accountants, taxi and tuk tuk drivers, shop keepers and bar/restaurants.

But with them I have a choice so they don't bother me much.

I bet there are Thais that don't have a problem with corruption but there is one thing that can bend morality and laws for all, the level of morality depends on how full your stomach is.

I do understand the basis of corruption and I did not say thais "like" corruption. I said they are comfortable and I can further say they have accepted it as a way of life and profit from it.

Clearly, you do not understand corruption and you are just stating an opinion. For your education, try reading this report: http://aceproject.org/ero-en/regions/asia/...in_Thailand.pdf

Although several years old, it still applies and explains the problems. Maybe after reading actual facts then you may understand my initial statement.

Part of the reason is that a lot of folks pick the inlaws (and families) from the bottom of the barrel. Marry into the ghetto and expecting lawyers, doctors, and stock brokers?

Agreed.

But in the west many people that do not have money have character and honesty while not embracing corruption as a norm. But then, by making that statement I am going against my own advice of not comparing other cultures to thai culture.

I would advise all you keyboard warriors to calm down.

Whatever your opinions are will make no difference at all in the final outcome, so why get so stressed ?

Your opinions are just that, opinions, thats all, unless you are willing to get on the front lines with the people that are actually suffering and being shot at, what do you know, apart from what the government controlled media tells you ?

Really, I would advise some of you old timers to relax a little, you're taking years off your lives with the stress of arguing over something that you have no say in at all, and in fact, unless you are there on the front line, what do you know ?

What the government controlled media tells you.....please.....you have more intelligence than that I'm sure

Calm down...

Repeat after me... ' I'm a Farang, I have no influence in Thailand '

Repeat this mantra 100 times to let it sink in, then relax.

Stop fighting each other, it's pointless.

Well said.

I assume most of you are not Thai like me. Then, what the hel_l is wrong with you guys? Please read and follow the history of everything and study Thai people psychology before throwing empty judgment. Here are some points to think of:

1- Law and rules are selectively applied

2-Many Thai people do not think of consequences (note bikes driving on platforms, driving wrong way,..etc)

3-Many Thai people are ready to follow (senior roles)

4-Many average people here do not know where to stop and do not see the "by-default" line (Calling you Farang in front of you, assuming you do not know)

5-Thai society on average is very closed, though many tourist but yet they are two categories farang and ka

Mix all of these, adding greed of leaders (UDD,PAD, Govt, Thaksin, you call it) and mingling paid criminals in between, you get what you see. This has been happening here before in different scale. It is just now going to leave a huge crack in Thai society, might not be heald but for sure will be forgotten a year later.Same as the attacks in Payathai last year.

Good luck

What you state here will never stop. Thais are happy with their corruption. Someone in here wrote that 82% respondents to a survey stated that they are comfortable with the level of corruption in their society. They can't have their cake and eat it too. This unrest will always be here. Corruption is taught in schools and thais see nothing wrong with that.

Some here are advocating support for thai family members when they are in need as they would a family member in our own country. The difference is in our own country there would be a legitimate need for them to ask for money. In thai, the family member ask for money regardless if they need it or not. My in-laws ask for money all the time and they have more money than I do! Primarily, they want the money to give to their other children so they don't have to use their own money.

You cannot compare western culture to this culture. This culture is finely tuned to fleece the farang at every opportunity. I say culture because it is not unique to each family. ALL thais do this. Even the government makes laws to compliment this fleecing.

The armchair generals here are simply amazing - no other countries would shoot women and children? David koresh/USA, Londonderry... Bloody Sunday, Tiannemen, do please at least try and set the brain in gear before you post!

Then we hear all the crap about how the army are here defending the country, and peoples rights!

I thought the army was supposed to be here to defend against external threats? Like when the Japanese attacked in the North during the second World War ,and they surrendered within 4 hours! (But the Thais don't like to talk about that!!!!

Go look it up, the only victory the Thai army will ever have is over unnarmed civilians, wanke_rs!

Or in fighting, as when the then PM (Back in the days of Sarit and Co.) visited a navy ship off the coast of Thailand and the Navy held him hostage, so the army shelled the shit out of the Navy....yes, they are a great combined force.

The job of keeping law and order on the streets, I always believed, was a job for the police...where the fuc_k are they? This is not a job for the army, but the police don't want to know...and would you for 7K a month????

I agree. The army is far too active in domestic affairs. It makes sense that the army gets involved where it shouldn't because corruption is so accepted as normal here. I too thought the army was for protecting the borders. Does anyone know what the Thai constitution states about the role of the Thai military?

Well let's see. The government has been more than patient in my humble opinion. They can't let this drag on. Had this been China and may other places the Reds would have been forced out long ago. I hope that no one is killed,but if they are so stupid to think they can over throw the government which has the support of the police and army, they are mad.

Are you kidding? What makes you think he has the Army and Police? He has neither 100%. Where have you been?

It's always about money ....... but this time it's about VALUE FOR MONEY!

Value works both ways

You are amazingly naive about Thailand. Spend some time looking at previous threads. This topic has been beat to death especially for those that never get it no matter how much it is explained.

pornsasi, you strike me as a guy who came to Thailand less than 10 years ago, are very good at ordering Singha in Thai and say Kap khun kaa and have a social interaction that spans no more than 10 meters around a bar stool... You are funny to read, in a shallow way

They would have been cleared weeks ago, in Beijing, New York, or London - and by non-lethal means.

Not when the terrorists have assault weapons they wouldn't. As soon as they started firing at the people applying non lethal force they'd be shot dead, as these red terrorists should be.

Everyone would like to see a non violent solution if it is possible. It is rapidly becoming impossible. At what point does simply killing them become acceptable?

In my opinion, it has already passed.

Any force necessary to remove them at this point is justified. There are no more innocents. And anyone who is found to have brought children into the terrorists zone, assuming they survive the dispersal, should be incarcerated and their children, all of them, turned over to protective services to be placed in a foster home.

These people are not responsible enough to be parents.

I disagree. In other parts of the world they would have come down even faster and harder if a group had weapons, assaulted or even threatened to assault authorities. But this is neither here nor there since this is Thailand. The only thing Thailand wants to copy from other parts of the world has to do with appearances and riches but underneath they want to stay Thai and continue to think and deal in Thai ways.

Absolutely true. Nearly all the comments made here are referencing history and experience of western countries. Not applicable here.

Just as a counter point to the folks who seem to think TLL is great, I think it used to be great but now it's a cesspool. I've maintained a membership on there for maybe 4 or 5 years (I let it lapse when I'm not using it so I'm not paying the whole time). Most of the quality women get bombarded with messages and chat requests. Unless you're creme of the crop pickings don't expect that girl with the photo that looks like she could be a Maxim model to ever get back to you. Even the Isaan village honey has tons of guys writing her.

What you will get is the second you log on you will get about 20 pop-ups from:

1. Women your age or older (and I'm north of 40)

2. The very mentally unbalanced younger women

3. Gold diggers, scam artists, and other undesirables (unless you're into gold diggers, of course)

The problem is is that the word got out to the girls. Every bar girl on Soi Cowboy has an account on TLL. Look at how many girls list Chon Buri (code word for Pattaya) in their profiles. Word up in Isaan has spread and every girl who can figure out how to use the internet is on there chatting with as many guys as they can.

Because, in the end, they're just like us. If you're in the US, Europe, Australia, etc and only can make it here one or two times a year you don't want to waste a trip meeting a non-match so (if you're like I was) you cast a wide net and try to narrow it down. So do the girls. If you're talking to 10 she's probably talking to 30 or 40. And because most of your competition are morons they'll all be trying to win her over with how much they can give her and what they'll buy her. So, she now in a highest bidder scenario. She thinks this is how it works because so many guys are willing to buy her love.

Not all girls are like this. But where a few years ago TLL used to be about 60% zeros and 40% quality, it's not more like 90% zeros and 10% quality.

If you're looking for some cheap and meaningless sex TLL might still be a good choice. If you live here in Thailand they might sleep with you once or twice before trying to get some cash. But the hassle usually isn't worth it, IMHO.

The cold hard truth is that most men have no idea how to select women. Even from some of the comments on here I see people who I know are hopeless back in their country of origin by how they go about Thai women.

So, the first thing people need to do is figure out how to treat women. Not just Thai women but women in general.

There was someone earlier in the thread talking about seeing beautiful women on the BTS but not knowing if they're married, have a boyfriend, or lesbian. You know how you find out? You ask. It's not rocket science.

Personally, I like meeting people face to face. If you live here, Thailand Friends is a great way to do it. It's probably closer to Hi5 or Facebook than TLL but with the added benefit of weekly live events. It might be bowling one week and hitting up Bed Supperclub the next. You never know.

There are also lot of other live meeting opportunities but they tend to have more of a business networking focus. And at ones like the Bangkok Trader Ladies Night, it tends to be heavily dominated by farang women (in terms of total women at the event) which may be a plus or minus to some people.

If you pick up BK Magazine or Bangkok 101 there's always something going on. You just need to find something that fits your lifestyle.

But I like meeting people in that kind of environment now that I live here. The community nature sort of filters out most of the chaff. Scammers, gold diggers, etc will get labeled pretty quickly and shunned. Not all, but most :-)

Plus once you start making friends they're not just online friends. You meet up for drinks, dinner, whatever. Even if you're not interested in someone romantically maybe they're just cool and you can hang out with them. The bonus being that they might introduce you to some of their friends too.

Personally, I think that you have your best chance of meeting quality women is by going to where the pond isn't already fished out. TLL and many of the other dating sites seem overfished.

I used to date a girl who I met via a friend (who I had met on Thailand Friends) who worked out in Rangsit. Most of her friends never came into central Bangkok and so whenever I went out with my girl and her friends they would be begging me to introduce them to a farang guy. I mean, these are all university educated women from good families making 25,000+ baht per month working office jobs. And they were all very attractive.

I would laugh and ask why they can't meet a farang guy and they would all say that it's because they don't go out a lot and don't run into many farangs in their work.

You would never find those girls trolling online dating sites. They haven't even heard of half the games that most guys complain about girls they meet online playing.

That's why, going back to the guy who was afraid to approach women he sees on the BTS or wherever, those are the kind of girls you could be missing out on. Even on sites like Thailand Friends or networking events you meet some very high quality women who would never, ever put themselves out there on an online dating site.

But, that's just the type of gal I'm looking to meet. I'm really not into the shy, quiet types. I like a girl with an education, even a little attitude. If that's not what you're looking for you'll have to adjust my suggestions to fit your "spec" but I think many of the general rules apply.

For instance, if I was looking for the village girl to be a housewife, mother, etc thing I would go spend a few months up in Isaan. It's not hard. I was up there recently and it seemed like everywhere you turned around someone was flirting. Not overtly but the look and the smile were certainly invitations to come over and talk to them. Most don't speak English but many do. If you've got some Thai language skills you would have no problem meeting women.

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. What I don't agree with in some of these other post is to just go ahead and buy a house for her and give generous amounts of money per month. Some of you must have plenty of money to sling around. No matter how much money I have, I wouldn't give people houses and supplement their income because it was the traditional thing to do.

I agree you should ask how much money they are making because that is what they are going to ask you for per month. I also believe that if you have a traditional thai wife she will want to traditionally give money to her parents. There is niche that most guys don't think about. In large thai families there is almost always a black sheep where there is nothing wrong with this daughter but the family seems to want to pick on this girl. She is far less inclined to give money to her parents as a result. So asking a girl about her family can be very important. I don't need a big thai family with dozens of cousins, brothers, and sisters. I found this type of girl and it has worked out great for me. I send no money to the parents or family and she is ok with that.

"As bad as Thai politics is its not really all that different than politics anywhere else. It's the culture and society that is the problem and when that is overlaid on to politics the nation suffers. This dialogue that needs to take place is about "new society", "new culture". A recent poll says 82% of Thai people are ok with corruption. There's no "New Politics" that's going to turn that around. On the contrary. When the people change their way of thinking the politicians will adapt to it. Not vice versa."

That is an interesting poll. 82%. Where did that come from?

Thai PM says ready to hold November elections under roadmap

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Thailand's prime minister said Monday he was ready to hold elections on November 14 to end a tense standoff with opposition protesters, subject to certain conditions under his reconciliation roadmap.

"If all five goals are achieved ... the election can be held on November 14," Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said in a nationally televised address.

-- ©Copyright AFP 2010-05-03

Published with written approval from AFP.

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Seriously, if you are a red shirt how could you buy this? IF all five goals are achieved. Who determines IF they are achieved? Abhisit can declare the goals are not achieved and POOF all this is gone. If Abhisit really offers something, it won't have the word "IF".

Also, I think that guys think when they give money the first time it's a single event. They don't understand that they are opening a complete financial support system. In the west, if someone asks for financial help, it's just for the one time. Normally, You don't think that person is coming back every week for more. Although they would like to keep coming back, they know that is unreasonable and you will probable tell them to go to he_ll.

I think the farang who think they own their homes only to discover the title deed has been transferred to another owner after the fact still take the cake. It's particularly heartbreaking come eviction day and you come across these folks doing DIY painting/plumping/carpentry..., mowing their lawns, etc. on 'their' homes.

:-|

I thought I was naive when I first came here but someone that puts a house in their wife/gf's name and expects to keep said house is beyond naive. You wouldn't do that in your own country. I hope.

Yeh that'd be clever. Some petrol pump attendant docked the price of the fuel from the Bht4000 a month pay cheque.

But if falls far short of the stupidity of foreigners who are usually smile while they are handing over the life savings to the object of their adoration.

Yes, it's fall short, but you have to start somewhere.

"What is it about Thai girls, that makes men want to jump on board to support her and her family until he is bled out of his last dollar, and then dumped on the curb?...Anyway, just curious on what others think that have probably seen it all!!"

What are YOUR thoughts on this? Some guys are desperate and, hope springs eternal. Some guys feel guilty, set themselves up for disappointment, and then complain.

I think it's a different kind of con they aren't used to. They have a better looking woman that takes care of them where the combination weakens their resolve. The woman plays the damsel in distress and the guy likes to play hero. It gets out of control and he realizes he is screwed. He doesn't necessarily want to dump the woman but he has no choice in order to unload the burden.

I can't buy "she just wants a better life for herself". That is absolute BS. So she want a better life for herself as she takes all you have and kicks you to the curb. I agree with the statement the more she loves you then the less she takes. Guys are coming from other cultures where the wife has your back so to speak. Let me qualify that statement by saying that is not a hundred percent true. Here, in most cases, you turn your back and she has your wallet.

In this culture it is "expected" of the woman to take all she can. My wife gets this from family, friends, acquaintances, and passers by. Many make efforts to break us up. The Thai people are proud that they can take your money because making and taking money is as high a priority in life as breathing. It's their version of socialism. The woman takes your money and they spread the wealth around. The whole society is based on taking foreigner's money. You can't own property so it goes in the wife's name. You have limited time in the country so the woman can set you up and then it's time for you to go.

I believe most or all decisions made in this country is based on how best to help the woman bleed the farang because it gathers the highest quantity of money per episode.

Is there a website that lists various Thai women that scam Farangs? The women that have multiple husbands for the sake of multiple incomes and women that married to clean out wallets then move on.

Thai people "gang up" on Farangs then why can't there be websites for information on the professional Thai women? I would insert my ex's picture. She is definitely a pro.

I typically keep my mouth shut on matters of this site but it seems that most are talking out their ass (emotionally) instead of talking with their brains (logically). Why is it wrong to speak your mind? The reds or even the yellows have the right to speak their minds. There are literally thousands of people that visit this site. There is a responsibility in that statement and we should act accordingly . We represent the foreigners. In my mind, isn't this one of the most profound moments in Thai history? The outcome of this demonstration (rebellion) could easily dertermine the future of Thailand, therefore; producing an environment that could easily transform Thailand into a logical thinking country with an improved future. Don't we all want that? I do. I am willing to take that chance, stand back and not shoot my mouth. We can exploit the women here, and obtain jobs here and maybe don't we really give a shh_it about the country. I hope you do. I do. I see this as a moment in Thai history where the people have an opportunity to establish what we have all enjoyed: real democracy. Maybe this is a road to a real environment of the absence of corruption. Who knows, but I see this as a chance for change. Step back. Let this happen. I believe we will not be disappointed.

I understand that the moderators need to be cautious during this time of unrest and sympathize with the difficulties they face doing a thankless job. Since we're no longer permitted to post and discuss news clippings in the General Forum, I thought I'd bring a story to your attention here. Abhisit told the BBC on Tuesday why he won't call for a new election.

Thailand crisis: Red-shirt protesters and troops clash

On Tuesday Mr Abhisit told the BBC that while he wanted a political solution to the crisis, immediate elections were not the answer.

"There is a clear threat that if we hold elections too soon, with the mood running as high in terms of divisions and in terms of tension, elections would turn violent and they would solve nothing and we could be back into this vicious cycle of demonstrations." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8648109.stm

This is one the biggest red herrings in the overall argument for not holding an election in 90 days.

What evidence is there that the yellow shirts have any decent numbers in the support base beyond Bangkok ? I simply don't believe they have such big numbers! All the yellows and Abhisit do is come with every reason under the sun why there cannot be an election while people are being killed.

But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ? Sure the PAD might put up a fight after they lose ( which they will ) but I am sure they can be contained !

"But it is reasonable to assume that a large proportion of the 22 million in Isaan are red supporters ?" Only if you are a redshirt apologist. On another thread, a link was posted to a Khon Kaen Uni study which showed that 50% of the population of KK DID NOT want a house dissolution. If you don't have a clear majority in Isaan, what hope have you anywhere else? How is a extrapolated 11,000,000 a big enough % of the population to demand elections?

Agreed