NancyL

Back in the U.S. Hubby and I ran a greenhouse/nursery business and hail was one of our feared enemies. Had to deal with the aftermath of a hail storm several times, but that's why we had crop insurance, which helped somewhat. But, it just re-imbursed wholesale value, not retail value of lost crop. And the property insurance paid for the cost of material to repair the greenhouses, but not for our labor.

So, it was a nice feeling, the one time we saw hail coming down here in Chiang Mai to be able to sit by and watch it come down and bounce on the ledge outside our condo windows and see the people running around on the street and, in general just be amused by it, knowing we weren't going to be out hundreds of thousands of dollars that year.

The Ma & Pa store in my Chiang Mai condo. The gal who runs it used to be a buyer for Rim Ping supermarket and the place is really a mini-Rim Ping, catering to the tastes of the local foreigners. She's brilliant at stocking with exactly the right stuff and knows the favorite items of her customers.

Tops Market -- unfortunately it's closer than a Rim Ping, so that's where I go to get stuff I can't buy at the condo mini-market

Central Dept store -- the one in Kad Suan Kaew mall is one of their smallest, but is our go-to store for appliances and household items because they deliver and stand behind them when they develop problems. Also, the B2S is handy for office supplies.

Parking lot queue 201 is for retirement extensions and queue 401 is for marriage extensions, although you'd really have to work very hard to figure it out from the wording on their signs. If you read the OP, you'll see the words "retirement" and "family member of Thailand" buried in the description for those queues.

And within walking distance of the YMCA with those cheap Thai language classes in that grubby building, that huge, confusing Thai Tanin Market and that old, seedy mall, Kad Suan Kaew. Yes, who would ever want to live in Santhitam?

Very comprehensive and accurate report based on my recent experience at the same office. It does get interesting when it rains.

I'm curious, Selinge2, do they still have a hidden stash of plastic chairs behind the main building? Someone discovered that when I did the same chair-sit wait drill about three weeks ago and about 60 people were fortunate enough to have chairs. Maybe they were just on-site for a special function or something, like an office party.

It's my understanding (and it seems to be the understanding of the drivers) that the rate is 20 baht. I tell them where I want to go and if they nod, I hop in the back, when they stop there, I hand them 20 baht and everything's fine. Every so often, one will ask for a higher rate at the end and I act all surprised as say "sow baht tammada" and walk away. End of discussion. No one's come chasing after me yet. The time to set the price is before I get into the song thaew, not at the end.

Last week, I did have a driver pick me up near River Market and invite me to sit up front with him. This happens from time-to-time, I think because I'm an older woman and can speak some Thai and the drivers like to chat. I thanked him and commented that it was nice and cool in his vehicle and we chatted for a while and then he asked for 50 baht, in very polite Thai. I was a little exasperated because we already had started the journey -- what choice did I have at that point? I shut down the conversation. I figured no more free entertainment if he was expecting me to pay more than 20 baht.

I PM'd Gonzo about these two Butterballs in need of adoption a couple days ago, but he said he'd made other arrangements. I checked today and they're still homeless. Now it's the day before Thanksgiving and two big Butterballs will probably still be in the freezer at Tops Kad Suan Kaew for the holiday. They had been marked at the astonishing price of 320 baht/kilo but today the price was slashed to 170 baht/kilo. Now we're talking Turkey! One is a little over 8.8 kilos and the other is over 8.4 kilos. A great buy for someone who has freezer space to hold 'em until Christmas.

They also have their little Butterballs at the same price of 170 baht/kilo too.

Tourist visa extensions are a walk in the park compared with retirement visa extensions. Marriage visas waits are shorter, but you have to bring more documents and then there's that "30 day under consideration" thing with marriage visas and the home visit for the first extensions.

Yes. I think they're using familiar landmarks. My husband has a Thai friend who is a bank branch manager. When he gives us directions it's always in terms of the branch banks and ATM machines of his bank and those of his competitors. He must know the location of every banking location in northern Thailand. Who else but a bank manager would really pay attention to something like that?

No Mapguy and Northernjohn -- you know that I help out elderly people who find themselves in hospital. I know of one man who suffered a stroke in the parking lot of Immgiration, another a heart attack and a third who had a bicycling accident when he was in search of a document he had been told to get by Immigration when he went for what he thought was going to be a routine visa extension appointment.

It is a very stressful situation for people, especially if they're in early stage dementia. That's when people can still function if they've set a routine for themselves -- do the same thing every day. But the need to do the once-a-year visa extension creates much stress and the situation at CM Immigration sure doesn't help.

One year the frozen cranberries I bought at Rim Ping came from Romania. Little tiny things. Who would have thought?

In Chiang Mai, there is absolutely no way the bank letter can be dated the same day as the extension unless you got an appointment online. Having a bank letter and updated passbook dated from the day before is jut fine.

You should get to Chiang Mai Immigration around 5 am and get in line No. 2 for a retirement extension. Don't worry if you're in the right line -- it will be the longest line.

I'm from Chiang Mai. Been there, done that, have the sleep deprivation to prove it.

If you hurry, maybe you could still order a turkey from a Rim Ping store and ask them to cook and deliver it for you. That's what we do. Actually we order a whole flock of birds, since we put on a large feast in our condo and every couple gets a small "take home" bird for their own left-overs. But we don't actually celebrate Thanksgiving on the day, but a couple days later so we can watch the parades and football games as if we were in "real time".

Actually people have been injured there as a result of this insane system. I know of three people who have died within days of attempting to obtain retirement or marriage visa extensions and the stress of the situation had caused them to have a heart attack, stroke or major bicycling accident. There are undoubtedly more people who have had their lives thrown out-of-whack because of the need to get out of bed at 4 am to secure a good place in line, then wonder if they're in the right line, only to be told at 8 am that they didn't bring the right documents and then have to go off to chase for the right documents knowing they have another day of getting up at 4 am to get in line again. And then, probably having whomever processes their visa not even ask to see the document they were told was vitally important to get.

OK, rant over. For the OP, I was there three weeks ago, doing the chair-sit thing for an elderly gentleman who probably wasn't up to the strain of it. Yes, the system is still in place. Plan to arrive at 5 am if you need a retirement extension and get in line #2. If you need a marriage extension you get in line #4 and you can come a little later.

I really love Thanksgiving in Chiang Mai. Back in the Home country some of the men folk would hunt wild turkeys in the wood lot of our back 40 just to keep in the spirit of the holiday. Now we women folk hunt cranberries, stuffing mix, frozen Butterball turkeys, lima beans, etc in all the Chiang Mai retailers in an attempt to produce an "authentic" meal, just to keep in the spirit of the holiday.

I saw a good supply of 12 oz bags of Ocean Sprays in the freezer case at the Rim Ping - Nim City last week, but they could be out now. That's hardly large bulk quantities, but they looked like they had just arrived off the boat.

Not only is the truth being stretched about the insurance situation, I'd question if the ARVs will cost 2000 baht/month even if he didn't have insurance. I know foreigners who obtain ARVs at Suan Dok hospital, who wait all day in the queue to see the doctor because they have limited funds. Their ARVs don't cost them that much each month. Yes, maybe if they were to the private hospital, they'd pay that much for the ARVs, but not in the gov't hospital.

Megadoses of vitamin C at the first sign of a cold. Don't know why, but for me, if I start to feel that dull ache in my ears (my first sign of a cold), often a couple days for megadosing of Vitamin C means it doesn't go any further.

If it does, then it's Tiffy and maybe Robitussin if it settles in my chest to where the cough keeps me awake at night.

Almost always seem to get a cold after I travel by air. Even a short little flight, like BKK-CNX. I think they just recycle the air on the plane with everyone's germs. Never get a cold after an overnight train journey.

My only regret is that I've not had an opportunity to learn more about how a Lisu village can assist an dying westerner. I've spent many hours, some of them hours overnight, next to the side of people dying at McKean, Suan Dok, CM Ram, Sripat, and at home. And less intense hours with ill people at McCormick, Rajavej and Nakorn Ping Hospitals. I have a better-than-average idea of how the end-of-life process works in those settings and I place myself in a very visible situation to help others who want to learn more if they find they must embark on that unfortunate journey.

Now, uptheos and hml367 come along and claim to be aware of another option and can only insult me because I'm not offering this option to the terminally ill. I can admit I was wrong in belittling the option to go to a Lisu village for end-of-life, but only after I've had a chance to evaluate it. And telling me to "head off to a Lisu village and live with them for a while" isn't an answer. I didn't form my opinion of end-of-life care at any of the institutions mentioned above by simply showing up and asking to hang out for a time. I was invited there to assist a specific person.

OK, Uptheos and HML367 -- you've got a point.

As I admitted, I know nothing about the end-of-life care and pain relief options available for foreigners in Lisu village. I didn't know this was an option that existed. Obviously my education has been lacking.

Could you please send me a PM about how to get in touch and help me to expand the range of resources that can be presented to those in need? Yes, McKean is definitely an option here, as is returning to one's home country (if one is still able to travel), so is getting set up for in-home care, or undergoing end-of-life in one of the private or government hospitals. There are many options and each has their own pluses and minuses. I'd like to learn about this option that is new to me, so I can add it to the list of options I present to people when they first contact me after receiving devastating news.

Part of what Lanna Care Net, Cancer Connect and other organizations here does is to help educate people about the end-of-life care options available and to guide them thru the process. It's a real shame if you're aware of a good path and not sharing it with others.

The hospital will probably be able to supply the ankle boot. Like others, I've not seen a knee crutch here. You may want to investigate getting a walker or "Zimmer frame" also. Those can be easier and safer to use, especially around the house than crutches.

She should insist on a little session with the physiotherapy dept to learn how to use this equipment. They have a tendency here to just hand it to you and send it on your way and there's a real art to learn how to get in and out of bed, cars and on/off the toilet if you're not suppose to put any weight on one leg.

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

I did not say that!!!

My reference to moonshine was....... "I can't say that I was ever bored, though night times were harder, centred around eating and copious amounts of moonshine.[/size]

That whole paragraph is BS.[/size]

I did not say and I will not say exactly what kind of pain relief is superior to the lowlands![/size]

And Uptheos, as I pointed out in my little essay, there is much more to end-of-life care than delivering pain control, especially if it's available in just one form. I doubt the people in a Lisu village are equipped to provide the full spectrum of needs for a terminally ill person and that person will have a fairly barbaric end, as do others here who are living on $500 per month and have a long, painful terminal illness.

No, I know nothing about end-of-life care and pain relief in Lisu villages.

But I do know that end-of-life care for terminal illnesses involves more than just pain relief and I wonder if a Lisu village would be the best place to receive that care.

What people don't realize is that the end-of-life process is often slow and one loses control of important functions and abilities. Would the people in a Lisu village be able to bathe and dress a large westerner? How about access to adult incontinence products and laundry facilities for bedding? Would someone be available to turn the patient every few hours to prevent bedsores? Could palatable food appealing to western tastes be prepared and feed to someone who has largely lost the ability to chew and shallow? What about supplying stimulation via music, entertainment, and conversation in the person's native language using appropriate cultural touchstones to keep the person mentally centered? Would someone be available to discuss concerns and fears about what was to come using the same spiritual framework as the person?

And then there's the very real concern about pain control. Uptheos thinks that "Lisu moonshine" would do a good job of delivering pain control. How is that administered? Orally? What happens when the person can not longer swallow or vomits everything taken orally? Can "Lisu moonshine" be administered other forms -- like as a dermal patch, how about an IV drip, or maybe as a suppository?

Some of the common forms of end-of-life pain control aren't even available in hospitals here in Thailand. And forms of pain control that are permitted in a home hospice setting in the west must only be administered in hospitals here. Yes, Thailand is at least two generations behind the west with end-of-life care and I would expect the Lisu villages would be even further behind. I don't doubt their compassion and caring, but I just don't think they have the knowledge or resources to handle the needs of a western person who is much, much physically larger than a Lisu person.

Also, I've observed Thai people at the end of life and they somehow seem to be much more stoic and accepting. Or at least they don't seem to be in as much pain and they are much more sensitive to pain killing drugs. There are undoubtedly differences in spiritual traditions that account for this and probably even biology, but it could partially account for the reason that often the westerner's pleas for pain relief go unheeded.

I think they meant they need a Thai witness signature on the document from the guest house. When I bring a letter from our condo, it's signed and stamped by the juristic person -- a Thai person. I doubt they actually want you to bring a witness in person. Think about it, look around the office. Does every applicant have a Thai witness with them?

i totally agree with you.

i have been reading the great information that is posted on this site since july in preparation for my visit to the CM immigration office last week and no where did it say that i would have to bring a WITNESS with me to the IMM office!

where the heck did that come from?

and i came to the IMM office very clean shaven, button down shirt, long clean trousers, no flip flops, etc (i am a media consultant to various UN agencies and NGOs)

and how easy is it for most farangs that have just arrived here to provide a Thai witness?

thank goodness I have lived at my Guest House since the start of October and developed a very good relationship with them and they will provide my witness!

Koochie -- did CM Immigration actually say you have to bring a witness to the Immigration office? A witness to what? What, exactly, are you trying to do? Convert a visa exempt entry into a 90-day O visa that you plan to extend for 12 months due to retirement?

If CM Immigration expected every applicant for a visa extension to bring a witness, then the place would really be packed to the gills.

Much of what you saying you're being told just doesn't add up. Something is being lost in the telling or understanding.

And no -- to answer one poster's suggestion that maybe they're looking for tea money -- no I don't think that's it at all. I've never known them to make that suggestion in the office nor has anyone I know reported that and I talk with a lot of people about their experiences at CM Immigration.