thaiwanderer

Am aware of various reasons given for denying / obstructing BPs to foreigners with differing status and differing ownership/control models. Whether any of these had any basis in law is another matter.

Given his vehmence about the issue, it apparently not being a bribery obstacle and you're likely to put in wife's name now anyway - could always ask him to point to that which precludes you having a building permit.

Separetely, not digging dirt doesn't mean not working. Managing and directing your builders is work so watch yourself on that especially given the spat.

Haveaniceday,

So there was a long established 3m wide access route or servitude on somebodies Chanote, a 'lane way' which you purchased, that you did not mention in your original post. If that 3m wide route could be used to access the 1 yarn [sic] land locked plot , then you have a problem.

As per my earlier post here I think he has a problem anyway, but with this new information the problem appears bigger.

Land subject to a Usufruct may be an attractive purchase to someone more confident of the Usufructuary meeting an early death .

(Off topic, but to bring to the attention of those searching in the future for usufruct threads, I believe it prudent to include mention of:

my disagreement with Isaanlawyers published interpretation that a lease granted by a Usufructuary survives the Usufructuary's death

; and;

the general suspicion about their practical efficacy as highlighted in my post #25 of the previous 'Usufructuary can issue 30 year lease?' thread link , to which I believe Sunbelt didn't respond to).

Again, Isaanlawyers and Sunbelt's silence on these issues is deafening.

dam_n, I can not edit post.

Note, the "tip" was not for a survey for the fun of it, one plot of land was land locked, another that touched it that we also bought has a 3m wide access via someone else plot, it was on the back of the some else chanote as well, it has access rights, all checked out. But we wanted to own that access way as well.

So we bought the lane way.

We wanted to own the lane way for access before we did buy the other two plots. We did that, but the land office insisted there was a 6 month wait to resurvey the front block to effectively break it up into two chaonets, we ended up buying, the 4m down it's boundary. All fine. It took a nominated 20,000 baht "cash tip" for the land office to process the land break up quicker than 6 months. Now I know why there were 7 Benz in the car park in the staff parking area for people making prob $1000usd a month. But, this is Amazing Thailand..

EDIT: Mirical Thailand

I might sound a bit bitter about it, but it seems, it is operations normal. So I just shrug and keep walking. But, I am not giving in to being extorted, manipulated and giving up our land for free loading monkeys who I really resent.

With respect the relatively small tip does not appear to have been for them to do their job rather it was to do it quicker.

I'm not precluding or excusing the possibility of any other instances of out and out corruption to pay for nice cars etc but pointing fingers about such things should really involve clean hands.

What exactly is your interest in any of the land involved that makes any of this your concern? Amazing Thailand indeed.

From the small block in question, it is much closer, to a little gravel Gov Soi going through another block, than going through ours, if he did go to a judge, wouldn't he claim be against the other one anyway?

Through our land, it would be 160+m and only about 20 the other way. But the other way is swamp that would have to be built up.

Thanks for the reference.

The swamp and work required might mean yours is the 'preferred' route according to the law - not by you obviously!

For practical purposes I agree the OP should probably resist access for now.

However advice should be obtained as regardless of that its likely the owner of the landlocked land (once its clarified who!) may well have a claim for right of way under for example CCC1349 / 1350.

Land subject to a Usufruct may be an attractive purchase to someone more confident of the Usufructuary meeting an early death .

(Off topic, but to bring to the attention of those searching in the future for usufruct threads, I believe it prudent to include mention of:

my disagreement with Isaanlawyers published interpretation that a lease granted by a Usufructuary survives the Usufructuary's death

; and;

the general suspicion about their practical efficacy as highlighted in my post #25 of the previous 'Usufructuary can issue 30 year lease?' thread link , to which I believe Sunbelt didn't respond to).

While I don't necessarily disagree with InterestedObserver's conclusion, 538 relates to Hire and Usufruct is not Hire.

That's exactly what a Usufruct is, the hire of immovable property, with or without compensation, for a specified period of time which may be lifetime.

Usufruct is not Hire.

Technically Usufruct is a real land right, a contract or agreement which is covered under the Civil and Commercial Code and Land Code.

So you agree now it's not Hire?

That takes any debate out of this thread . 100% excellent answer.

While I don't necessarily disagree with InterestedObserver's conclusion, 538 relates to Hire and Usufruct is not Hire.

That's exactly what a Usufruct is, the hire of immovable property, with or without compensation, for a specified period of time which may be lifetime.

Usufruct is not Hire.

That takes any debate out of this thread . 100% excellent answer.

While I don't necessarily disagree with InterestedObserver's conclusion, 538 relates to Hire and Usufruct is not Hire.

stevehaigh, if the police didn't keep turning up would you care about these Burmese labourers and taking advantage of them?

Presumably you have ensured you haven't cut any corners on any Thai laws.

Steve has a builder he personally is not employing the labour

He just wants his house built

He is well aware and is entirely responsible for that.

Wanting his house built (cheaply) isn't all he wants - he wants to point a finger.

In any case I'm sure he can speak for himself.

Where does it say he wants the house built cheaply.

He just wants his house finished.

If I was him I would try to stick with the Burmese labourers It would take twice as long if you had to use the lazy natives.

Pity the Burmese get paid less for twice what the other lot could achieve

OH by the way do you Live in Bang Tao?

Unfortunately Burmese tend not to be used because they are artisans.

He may well be paying over the odds but that doesn't mean the money rolls downhill.

Why on earth would I live in Bang Tao?

The OP is using a Builder, why would it be his job to check what the builder paid his employees???

Because he's pontificating about the actions of the Police.

If he wanted to build cheaply he would not use a builder but build himself

As a lot of spec builders who post on this forum do, hoping to get a newbie buyer

They certainly would not find a Thai buyer unless they were very lucky

So he's ensuring his builder is paying the Thai minimum wage?

stevehaigh, if the police didn't keep turning up would you care about these Burmese labourers and taking advantage of them?

Presumably you have ensured you haven't cut any corners on any Thai laws.

Steve has a builder he personally is not employing the labour

He just wants his house built

He is well aware and is entirely responsible for that.

Wanting his house built (cheaply) isn't all he wants - he wants to point a finger.

In any case I'm sure he can speak for himself.

stevehaigh, if the police didn't keep turning up would you care about these Burmese labourers and taking advantage of them?

Presumably you have ensured you haven't cut any corners on any Thai laws.

my experience with three leases here is that they are extremely one-sided and favor the landlord. generally there are no penalties for nonperformance by the landlord but all kinds of clauses if the tenant is nonperforming. in conclusion, the trustworthiness and general disposition of the landlord or lady can make the difference between heaven and hell.

my advice is take the money and run... why would you want to even venture into the legal waters on this?

be thankful she revealed her true self before you were settled in there. in every house that i checked out before renting, i made a point of contacted previous tenants regarding the landlord's reputation.

Because just like anywhere else they are offered by the landlord. You need not accept them as they stand or at all.

The trustworthiness and general disposition of the landlord or lady can maek the difference between heaven and hell. - Lessors typically have more at stake - property rather than a bit of rent.

Why? to say again he has no claim / interest in the matter?

Because by Thai law the legal husband has a 50% interest in the matter. Civil and Commercial Code, Chapter IV, Property of Husband and Wife.

The husband's interest in the land will have been waived by the first declaration.

The buyer and the land office would be uninterested in a second declaration.

The husband's potential interest in the funds subsequently wouldn't necessarily be affected by it and he would be illadvised to sign.

I think you are wrong about that, A foreigner is entitled to lease a home out and foreigner is entitled to lease it. The contract should be in Thai however and they should have certified translators to certify the translation.

most courts do not accept a rentalagreement case between 2 foreigners, so the document is worthless

in general any needed repair except leaking roof, is tenants responsibility

An unregistered lease need never be translated into Thai - unless and until litigated.

It can be any language the parties agree on.

If litigated the lessor should of course ensure they're up to date on Thai tax returns and they have a work permit covering their management of the letting (unlikely) or a contract with a mangement company and have not done anything that could to an official sympathetic to the lessee (or just anti that lessor) be construed as work (again unlikely) - or the lessor has their own sympathetic official is stronger, who remains on side.

i would've expected a decent lawyer to explain what it was, what period it covered and what else may potentially arise

a receipt should always be obtained unless you like paying twice, thrice etc

who owns the land, the house and how?

Can a thai national married to a farang at the time of purchase, change the name

on the chanote to another thai, without the farang husband being present at the land office?

Thanks

You'll have to give a bit more information (including but not limited to - what's it got to do with the farang?) but in any event I suspect the answer will be yes.

I was under the impression that the husband had to be present to sign a document

when the selling of land takes place, as when purchasing it?

Why? to say again he has no claim / interest in the matter?

Can a thai national married to a farang at the time of purchase, change the name

on the chanote to another thai, without the farang husband being present at the land office?

Thanks

You'll have to give a bit more information (including but not limited to - what's it got to do with the farang?) but in any event I suspect the answer will be yes.

and?

And finding them may well cast some light on the rest of the situation. Surely that's pretty obvious?

Got to be easier than hunting for a vague foreign someone who "may" be in Cambodia, or indeed anywhere else on the planet.

Nothing obvious, nor necessary applicable or helpful in involving the other shareholders.

So although we don't know the nationalities of any of these people, the odds are that somewhere or another there will be a Thai person who owns at least 51% of the company shares.

and?

^ Thanks for that but I'm looking for info on a commercial lease , not registered, limit - 10 years?

3 years

The hire of immovable property, lease or rent being the same thing, can be made for up to 30 years at a time. If for more than 3 years the lease must be registered with the local land office to be enforceable.

Maximum for residential is 30 years, for commercial it's 50 years.

If structured imaginatively and with 'local intrepretation' this may aid an individual hoping to hold a villa for more than 30 years.