gerryBScot

I am sure this is covered elsewhere but: BA., DipEd., Adv Dip Ind Design., thirteen years teaching - all gained in Australia. But no TESOL. Would this be enough to obtain a Thai Teaching license?

Your DipEd is presumably a post graduate diploma in education? It should amply satisfy not having a TESOL qualification. Do you have classroom experience? If so you should be able to secure employment in International Schools where pay and conditions will generally reflect what a teacher can earn in their home county.

You've got a range of options. Search this forum as there has been a fair amount of discussion of the options. It all comes down to what you want. Do you want to be able to stay in Thailand or do you want to be able to teach in other countries?

If option one, to stay in Thailand, do one of the certificate options which are offered by Thai/Philippine institutions - there are courses in BKK and you'll get details in this forum.

If option two, look to do a PGCEi from a Western institution that offers a blended learning programme - examples are the Sunderland and Nottingham PGCEi, both from the UK, and there are options from US and Australian institutions too. Please note these courses don't confer Qualified Teacher Status so you would not be able to teach in the UK with one but a number of international schools in the region and in Africa recognise them and allow you to teach with them.

For waivers your employer applies for you. The waiver is theirs. You leave the job, the waiver ceases to be valid. If you change jobs the waiver ceases to be valid. Your new school applies again on your behalf and if successful, you get a new waiver, a second one, with a two year validity.

If you have a bachelor's degree and a post graduate teaching certificate you can apply for a 5 year licence if you have the requisite experience. I have not yet applied for one but I believe an official in your school needs to confirm your employment. If granted, this licence is yours and you can use it in any school.

If you have a bachelor's degree your employer, usually a school, will apply for a waiver which is issued by the TCT, valid for two years and can only be used in relation to your employment in the school that has applied for the waiver. Normally school's can get two of these waivers but the third and subsequent waivers depend on you being able to demonstrate the steps you are taking to obtain some sort of academic teaching qualification. A fair number of people fail to get third waivers because TCT does not consider the steps as adequate. Currently the various measures are up in the air - it's all done on a case by case basis. Some qualifications are acceptable, some not. It seems, for instance, as if online certificates and MOOCS are not.

In terms of changing schools, the new school applies on your behalf and there is the possibility of refusal if you are nearing the end of your second waiver and you have no evidence of continuing professional development to support your new application.

Connda thanks for sharing your experience. I believe you've hit the nail on the head. Now you can see why the level of English is so poor. One of the issues in language learning is that your experience of learning your own language has huge impact on any other language learning you do in your life. From the perspective of a Thai student the methodology you describe is probably not too problematic as they are immersed in the language so I am sure that what they learn has much relevance to their day to day lives. However if you take the same approach to teaching English then no surprise that it doesn't work and no surprise that your toiling the other way round. The obsession with learning vocabulary especially outside of any sort of use or context is truly bewildering. I did some training for my Thai teacher colleagues and I decided to do a 'dictionary' exercise - I am known in school as generally being against using dictionaries except in specific circumstances. I really want students to learn how to use context and graphics to try to work out what a word means. So I gave my colleagues a print out of the Apple dictionary definition of the word 'deliver'; it provides six distinct definitions and one idiomatic use. I think they now understand why in many instances it is pointless teaching vocabulary without context.

Many years ago I did a night school course in Thai language in London at the School of Oriental & African Studies - the teacher was an American post graduate student who was an oriental language specialist as well as being a great guy. When he was replaced by a 'Thai' Thai teacher the following year, who set about the task just as you have described it, most of us dropped out due to exactly the same reasons as you.

The point about good students learning regardless of the teaching is an irrelevancy. Good teachers want everyone to learn and understand that everyone in fact can learn and can improve their learning. Good teachers also want to inculcate in their cares the notion of life-long learning and understand that at the best of times learning is patchy and uneven and is often characterised by periods of confusion and doubt. No real surprises there - the burgeoning field of neuroscience has already shown that 'learning' actually changes the brain's structure.

Wake up Thailand and get with the programme!

I have drunk alcohol for most of my life, to excess on occasions admittedly, but I am in good health. Lifestyle especially diet affects your

health as much as anything else. I had an aunt who drank & smoked daily, ate a lot of fried food and lived to her late 90's.

It's too easy to hang a label on someone for having a particular lifestyle.

I believe in living life to the full & have never regretted in doing something but would hate to die regretting not doing something I wished I had done.

Live each day as if it's your last day & one day you'll be right.

You get one life & no rehearsals.

Not sure what you're really saying but I've done a number of things that I would never have done had I still been drinking - I got married for the first time ( and still am to the same woman seven years later!) and I became a father for the first time and have been blessed with two great kids - I would have deeply regretted not doing either. While I could have done both as an active drunk and alcoholic there is no doubt my experience of both would have been totally different and I have no doubt that my behaviour would have adversely affected my wife and my kids.

I would like to stress that for some of us quitting drinking is a prerequisite to being able to live any sort of life let alone living life to the full.

Now that you're here you can do what you want - doesn't sound as if you are under any obligation to anyone. The agency is going to come on strong and try to dictate to you what you can and can't do. That's so they can screw you which is their intention by the sounds of it. There are good agencies but some of them are the most mercenary people you could ever meet. Don't sign anything until you're completely happy with it. On the basis of your experience so far with current agent I wouldn't sign anything period. If you've got enough money to cover your living costs for the next couple of weeks you should be able to find yourself a nice little job somewhere without the hassle of a bandito agent screwing you for everything and anything - it's the hiring season right now. So long as you have the credentials.....there's even someone offering you a job on here!

In your eight years teaching here have you done a Thai culture course and have you got any other demonstrable evidence of professional development like the only professional knowledge tests and/or courses? These factors seem to be critical in decisions to grant third and subsequent waivers to non-education graduates. You're unlikely to get them if you have done nothing.

In terms of the overall picture I think it has to be understood in the context of the overall strategy of trying to improve the education system. That can be seen in a number of initiatives: the adoption of the CEFR English standards with targets for Thai students, the recent reshuffle of the TCT, the streamlining of foreign teacher credentials. Personally these measures will do no more than scratch the surface. The problem in the education system here has nothing to do with foreign teachers; I think one of our main purposes is to take the blame, however - "We just can't get the right quality of foreign teachers" sort of thing. (How can you on a salary of 35,000 or in many cases significantly less?)

Whatever, good luck.

Rubbish. Took me 5 weeks to learn to read and write Thai.(as an adult). It's actually easier to master than the English alphabet and spelling rules. i.e...it has rules and they don't "change" ...as not the case in English.

To be honest, i don't believe you on that one.

Fine.

Maybe we could get back on topic again.

Will I be able to stay and teach in Thailand with a non education degree? That's my main concern at the moment.

Yeah you will be able to get a licence waiver which your employer applies for. This is valid for two years. You'll get two of these automatically but the third and subsequent ones are dependent on you actively pursuing some form of education qualification. There are a number of options in this respect details of which can be found in other threads.

It's a linguistic phenomenon of all languages that words are borrowed from other languages. Thai is no different in this respect from any other language. Many words in Thai come from Pali - maha, meaning 'great' is a common prefix - as in mahawittiyalai, university, for example; many Thai words also have Sanskrit origins - kuru, teacher from guru - and of course Thai borrows wholeheartedly from English though words are invariably spoken using Thai pronunciation rules which often render them incomprehensible in English - the football teams 'Arsenon' and Liverpoon' are classic examples, but what about 'sa-pan' for 'span' meaning 'bridge' and of course 'fen' for 'fan' which is girlfriend/boyfriend

I'm not sure about the benefit of being able to say the alphabet in any language, or rather for learning to recite the alphabet before the development of significant phonic awareness - what is needed first and foremost is the ability to correctly utter sounds that letters and clusters of letters make. A G3 student of mine recently was spelling the word 'cat' as 'k-r-t', 'krt', because when I sounded it he was hearing /k/ /r/ /t/! He thought I was saying the 'r' of the alphabet sound, when I was uttering the /a/ sound. This really shows how unhelpful and confusing learning the English alphabet is for young Thai learners. They think the letter 'c' can only be soft as in 'see' and the /a/ and 'r' is mind blowing - first time I ever encountered this and I am glad to say I was able to sort this out without him even knowing it!

A fascinating subject!

add .com and off you go.

Try Deedial at 7.50THB per minute.

Thank you Gerry,

But I don't know what you mean by : Deedial ????

Can you give more info ???

Have a nice time.

Thank's again.

Try Deedial at 7.50THB per minute.

LostinIsaan I see they closed the thread on recruitment at your request - you know the one which got me wound up. I wanted to say well done for being big enough to accept you got it wrong and for being even bigger and saying it in the thread. It's got to be ok in the learning and teaching game, indeed in any walk of life, to be able to put your hands up in any situation and say: I got this wrong. So well done. Sounds like you want to get yourself a new job but problem is a lot of schools operate this way. There's this thing about better the devil you now than the one you don't. Whatever, good luck and once more, well done on your post.

Schools like Bangkok Patana and International School Bangko which charge huge fees like 700,000 THB per year and they pay their staff very handsomely with all the bells and whistles you might expect. There is a very extensive discussion elsewhere on international schools in this sub-forum. I think someone posted in it that when other costs are factored in, insurance, deposits, school trips, transportation etc that the real cost of sending a child to a top school is around 1 million THB a year. Ouch!

Lostinisaan I was starting to think this was about loss of face, which you have confirmed, and my apologies if I caused you offence because this was not my intention. Some one suggested we don't crucify the messenger which at one level is a fair point, but sometimes messages have to be edited to make them acceptable. Designating a job 'NES only' is perfectly acceptable and doesn't actually require any justification which might give offence.

They made quite a few bad experiences by hiring Cameroonian and Filipino teachers and finally figured out that their own Thai English teachers were even better than those they'd hired.

That's what you said. That's what I object to. I don't have a problem with my spelling, your spelling, your grammar, my grammar, your race, or anything else. This may not be what you meant but my reading of your sentence is that the mistake was to hire people of certain types of national origin, i.e. Filipino and Cameroonian. So if they had appointed native speakers from the US or the UK there wouldn't have been a problem? Duh!? Being a native speaker does not qualify you for anything in the teaching game. I know plenty of African and Asian teachers who are top notch teachers, true professionals, who could blow the socks off many native speaker 'instructor' types.

In fact the more I read this post the more I think it should be removed. OPS please consider. The poster is saying the problem is because they hired 'Filipinos and Camerounians', sorry guys that's you dismissed in one fell swoop. ...... you can't possibly be good teachers because of your national origins whereas a native speaker, (preferably white I presume?) is going to be better. Should TV really be giving its space to such arrant nonsense? I have had the good fortune to work with a range of great teachers from many different countries including the Philippines and Cameroun. (In fact I even married a filipino teacher. ) Most Filipinos and Camerounians are usually multilingual - most Camerounians are able to speak English and French, for instance. this stuff really has no place in any form of educational setting or discussion of educational matters.

Yeah and the PG in PGCEi stands for Post-graduate (not parental guidance) so a level of prior academic attainment is normally required to gain entry to it and I doubt whether you would be admitted to it without some evidence of prior teaching experience.

gerryBScott and casualbiker, it appears we are talking apples and oranges, or perhaps you have missed the point. The OP said, "a degree in paedagogic" which means a degree in education. The PGCE is continuing educational credit and not a degree in itself. Yes, the Post-Graduate part means the recipient has a bachelor degree, in some discipline as part of the requirement. If that were a bachelor degree in education, then the recipient of the PGCE may be qualified. If continuing educational credit is all that ASEAN nations will require, then the PGCE may be acceptable without a BEd.; however, if it is an educational degree ASEAN requires, the PGCE will not do--unless the recipient's bachelor degree is a pedagogic degree.

I am not really sure what we are talking about. It might be bananas for all I know!

Yeah I think that in the UK undergraduate degree and post-grad certificate in education equals pedagogic qualification or meeting the academic requirements to teach; if they did away with that most secondary level, subject specialist teachers, like in Maths,Science, Humanities and Language Arts would need to get new qualifications. 'Pedagogic' is a curious term to describe a degree, IMHO, as it is but one aspect of the teaching game, that relating to teaching; most humble certificates contain modules relating to education psychology and theory, learning and the like and not just 'teaching'.

Or maybe I am missing something and showing signs of dementia and why it is time to pack it in!

Yeah and the PG in PGCEi stands for Post-graduate (not parental guidance) so a level of prior academic attainment is normally required to gain entry to it and I doubt whether you would be admitted to it without some evidence of prior teaching experience.

Don't give up giving up Blue. This is a cunning, baffling and powerful b******. It wants you to feel this way, it wants you isolated on your own, feeling blue, nursing your resentments, feeling sorry for yourself because, ..... it knows you'll drink. I hope you find the strength to pick yourself up and go again.

I am assuming your son is mixed race and that his English is good by virtue of using it naturally at home with you and this being reinforced by exposure to media in English like books and TV? What is his Thai like? There is every possibility that his English will be better than that of his teacher. Who knows what kind of reaction this could cause from the teacher?

I would proceed very cautiously with the ADD/HD stuff. I'm not sure it is hereditary. It's also rather easy for a doctor and a teacher to diagnose and prescribe without regard for the long term consequences. Especially a teacher - I mean the reason for the behaviour could never be connected in some way to the teacher and their teaching?!

I teach Grade 5 - 6 here and I experience a lot of kids with what are described as behavioural problems. Most of them are very bright too and funnily enough they respond to positive teaching. I recently was introduced to a class I am working with on a temporary basis for a few weeks and told there were three AD/HDD cases on meds incapable of doing anything.I've got these kids reasonably well engaged and working and being productive.... the problem is that I have identified about six other kids who can't read. Everything is memorised so they appear to function well in rote learning/repetitive tasks. But I recently gave the class a gap fill activity, in which they would have to complete the missing part of a question and answer structure which we had been learning. The results indicated six kids were unable to make sense of the written parts. The so called AD/HDD kids performed adequately.

I am well versed in the copying and rote learning that pervades here. I am not surprised that school kids here are they way they are because a lot of what they experience in the classroom must be mind numbing and nonsensical. So I am not surprised that they cannot sit still or pay attention - for many of them their school experience is like being chained to a desk so that their heads can be filled with all manner of nonsense.

I would suggest you do what you can to help especially in English and reading in particular. IMHO his language skills are the key to his future learning...... learn to read, read to learn sort of thing. A lot of the research in the West indicates that boys and girls have quite different reading interests at this age. Boys like factual material, science, geography, social science themes as opposed to stuff about relationships; graphically rich material like books published by DK.

Sport, as someone else suggested is a good idea - maybe get him involved in football. Check out your local mini football pitches or swimming pools - there will be people organising club activities for kids of your son's age in these places and they'll always be happy to get new members. My five year old son attends football training three times a week, and even though he doesn't understand it, he actually loves the experience and the contact with other kids most of whom are slightly older than him. Indirectly I learn a lot of bad Thai from him as a result! More importantly he always sleeps soundly after it - the trainers include some former teachers (non-Thai) who actually know what they are doing and can accommodate a small boy with limited Thai and no real clue about what he is supposed to be doing.

Good luck

This is undoubtedly a step in the right direction but it is a very small one. What it does is to introduce standards with defined criteria for levels of competence. It provides a framework, undoubtedly a better framework, and it sets some specific targets. It only indirectly addresses the real problem which is the quality of the teaching. In order to successfully meet the new targets nothing other than a revolution in teaching will suffice. Passing exams has never been a problem in Thailand. I am sure a way will be found to meet the targets but not necessarily one that will involve major changes in teaching. I hope in the long term that this does bring about change but I am not really sure that the way forward is in fact traditional tests, exams and grades which is all this is in real terms under a new name.

My wife ( a filipino ) and I plus our two, drop-dead gorgeous kids with beautiful curly hair periodically attract stares out here in the provinces. I watch eyes moving from me to my wife to the kids and I can often be heard to say out loud to my wife something like: "Mixed race sex, it's f****** outrageous and disgusting. How could she let him near her" which usually makes my wife feel a little embarrassed and she tells me to shut up and take no notice. I often stare back at people and indeed stare them out and sometimes I am amazed at how long it can take people to avert their gaze. I find it very rude and should probably deal with it more appropriately.

As a consequence of their hair my children constantly have their heads touched as people want to feel the texture of their beautiful curls. My five year old son can get quite angry and starts to growl a bit. He asks: why do people always touch my hair. I explain to him that it is because he is very beautiful and that few people in Thailand have curly hair. He usually tells me: I'm not beautiful, I am handsome! Personally I find the touching more understandable than the staring and it usually leads to a short chat about where we are from and utterances of shock and amazement that my wife is not actually Thai!

A colleague had a real nightmare because of a fatal road traffic accident. Basically he was behind an elderly motorcyclist who was steering with one hand and holding a gas cylinder in place on the back with the other. The bike went out of control when the rider, an elderly man, was attempting to make a U turn, putting the rider on the deck; the gas cylinder rolled into my colleague's car and then rebounded into man's head and killed him. I wasn't there and only know this sorry tale second hand. My colleague attempted to settle it and do all the right things but ended up in court where he was held to be liable on the basis that as a foreigner the accident wouldn't have happened if he hadn't been in Thailand. Duh! It cost him several hundred thousand baht in compensation.