sezze

Not sure if this means anything but I just saw 200 or so border police at attention and taking orders at border police hq in Phaholyothin. Coaches were standing by and police in the front to direct traffic. When they call out the Border Police, it's not a good thing.

PPP protest scheduled at 4pm . since it is 3.35 now ...

Out of interst, any predictions as to the retaking of BKK? Is there a chance that the airport could be open by next Sunday? (I guess I'm looking for reassurance or something, anything. Sort of like faint hope.)

I don't care what side anyone is on, shutting down a national airport for over a week is plain retarded.

Euhm , yes there is a chance the airport is open by next sunday . However , don't count on it too much . It is 7 days away . If the airport comes free today , without a shitload of damage , yes it will be open . If it takes another 3 /4 days , even without damage , i wouldn't count on it anymore . Check your flight status from your company to see if they fly to a different airport in Thailand .

Say whatever you like about Thaksin, but he tried to make Thailand a modern country, and he never exercised politics by trying to destroy the country.

What is happening now is complete insane, and I follow it with great sadness. Whatever the outcome of this, there will be no winners, only losers. The reputation Thailand has spent decades to build up as a safe destination for tourists and foreign investment, has been destroyed in a few days.

We can only speculate how much damage this will cause to the Thai economy, but the cost will be huge, and ordinary Thai people will start paying the price first when this is over. Businesses are surely already planning how Thailand can be avoided in the future. Tourists are canceling their Christmas holidays. Millions of jobs could be lost.

Arguing that this is only causing some inconveniences to passengers missing their flight is ridiculous. 3% of world cargo passes through Bangkok.

And this is happening in the middle of one of the worlds worst global financial crisis ever. Thailand has never needed a competent and efficient government as much as now.

When countries all over the world spend all their energy on how to avoid economic meltdown, Thailand does whatever it can to create one. If this is not madness...I don't know what is.

Thailand was 14th most dangerous places in the world before this month.Thailand has worked hard to earn the reputation of being dishonest..copyrights, freedom of speech, consistently idiotic politics where overthrowing an government (unheard of in this day and age) is a pastime...Thailand has always had a bad reputation. Only because I''m connected with Thailand do I see things completely different than just last year. Of all countries, Thailand was one of the lowest on my respect list...known for rampant prostitution, scams and lies. People are shocked when I reveal I've got a Thai wife...they ask some interesting questions...then when they ask again, they ask how my Taiwan wife is doing? Not much is known about Thailand in the mainstream except for our little niche here. This could be a forum from Cyprus for all anyone knows and we'd think the news in Cyprus was affecting everyone but in all truth, national news may mention in passing but India is the interested story of the week...India has come a long way from where it has been and actually has a dependable workforce and is trying to step up as a regional world power. Thailand has the money but it is all squandered. My first time there, I was predicting in 5 years, Thailand will be the Hollywood (only referring to wealth, not the real weirdos there) of Asia...but after I saw how deep seated the corruption was from tip top to the lowest of the low, I now realize why I still can get so many baht with the USD and this will continue for some time. Japan, on the other hand has handled things differently, so has Taiwan and South Korea...but there's Thailand making money on sex tourism as a larg percent of GDP...that's what Thailand is known for....lack of morals, ethics and rule of law and rule of international law...the copycat capital of the world (even though China does it more, Thailand has the reputation because of its size and scale of copycats and lack of originality. Anything made worthy of money, Thais will copy and sell for a buck...not a good reputation and it's quite unfortunate. You can see people in stores picking something up, seeing a "made in Thailand" stamp on it, then the value goes down and it sits on the shelf likely being a copycat of an original idea or style. What have Thais historically brought to the world? Famous ingenuity, inventions? Nope, just professional mimics selling their family members for cash. Anything for a buck.

I don't like it now that I love the people there (minus the snooty old money and intolerably prejudice caste system believers)

Unfortunately all our president and most leaders have said is it's unfortunate or a quick one sentence condemnation of what's happening and that's that. "This is bad, they should stop" seems all any big leaders have to say because not many on the world stage care, unfortunately. It would be nice to see Thailand get a reputation--not worried about losing it any more than it already has...never had a good one to start. Think about how you felt, your opinions, your friends before you had the idea to visit (if there are any who had no contact prior to certain later point in life). Thailand likely meant nothing except cool pad thai when you could find a place that made it....Thai food is great...other than that, how's Taiwan?

It is very harsh how you say it but there is more then a hinge of thruth in it . . That is also why corruption is on every scale of this society . Wheather you believe it or not , that indeed is what Thailand is known for . Nice beaches and a good nightlife ( or let us say prostitutionnetwork ) together with marvellous temples . They are not known in the world for inventions of any kind and even myself cannot think of any invention being Thailands original . However , this is a 3th world country and things like this are normal for a 3th world country . Thailand is struggling to get out of 3th world country and was succeeding due to all the industries mentioned above .This brought Western people in and together with their money there was a good connection status being build ( export and transport ) . That together with more and more people going there and the effort of a very succesfull businessman ( Thaksin was a very succesfull one ) , who brought in big international companies the country was booming . Now they are being pushed back in and will stay there again for how long ... nobody knows .

And you believe all this crap ... it's Thai politics at it's best . I do agree on the fact that this government is corrupt . Anyone not doing this is a plain fool . It's been proven many times allready . However , everything in Thailand is based on corruption . If you want to turn that around , then you need to change the way people think about money . The only way to get corrution out of the way is get people earn enough money on a fair basis so morallety ( don't know if the english writing is correct ) can step in . This is far from it and so are the PAD , because they are just as corrupt as the PPP . In a Feodal system .. this is how it works ... used to be like that in Europe a couple of 100 years ago but got rid of it . Not by the rich people .. never ever by rich people but by poor people having a revolution in 1 way or another . Since these PAD leaders are the rich and wealthy ... they are exactly the same .

Now lets consider that further. The current economic world crisis was not caused by corrupt US bankers acting in a fraudulent manner ? That is bankers spelt with a B by the way not a W although I suspect both variants hold good.

Hmm , that is way off-topic but yes and no . It isn't caused by corrupt bankers acting fraudulent . It is caused by greed ... and that is something that every person got in itself . Banks and people selling and buying houses at a going rate which is much higher then the normal inflation rate causes a market to overheat . Sure i want to buy something and sell 1 year later with a 20% profit ... who wouldn't . And banks will do everything to get you that loanto pay for it because they know they can get the money from the selling side and they also have a new house to buy so the circle is round . At 1 moment they price is so far overvalued that some people cannot pay there loans back and everything collapses .

And you believe all this crap ... it's Thai politics at it's best . I do agree on the fact that this government is corrupt . Anyone not doing this is a plain fool . It's been proven many times allready . However , everything in Thailand is based on corruption . If you want to turn that around , then you need to change the way people think about money . The only way to get corrution out of the way is get people earn enough money on a fair basis so morallety ( don't know if the english writing is correct ) can step in . This is far from it and so are the PAD , because they are just as corrupt as the PPP . In a Feodal system .. this is how it works ... used to be like that in Europe a couple of 100 years ago but got rid of it . Not by the rich people .. never ever by rich people but by poor people having a revolution in 1 way or another . Since these PAD leaders are the rich and wealthy ... they are exactly the same .

Whilst appreciating points made herein, I do recall my personal experiences crossing, or not, the Channel, when the transport workers, apparently predominantly French truckers, would blockade Le Harve and the Normandy ports often to bring pressure for their local political issues. The police there often seemed loath to proactively deal with this interruption to commerce and passengers either.

Just a thought/memory.

Regards

/edit typo//

Yeah, I've lived in France a while and experienced the french style of protests, which often involves unrelated people. I don't really appreciate that either. I've not seen them take over an airport in Paris, though.

Oh yes ! Union strikes shutting down airports are common all over Europe. Preferably during the peak holiday season, to give their demand more power. Rings a bell?

Yes it does ring a bell ... and how long do these strike take to be solved ?? 1 day max . And this is not a strike ... a strike is from employees working there , not a mob taking over a airport because this is a serious break in every security measure you can have . This is not aimed at the government directly .. this is aimed at the millions of people travelling around the world and at business people who need to travel for it . I said it before ... the government house .. no problem ... that is a reasonable place to go for action airports/harbours/business centres ... out of the question

The only reasonable thing besides being political etc is that the Thais themselves did not kill the chicken who lays the golden eggs ... they slaughtered it . The so called "elite" Thais who actually believe in the 6% GDP coming from tourism think that this is nothing to worry about . 1 year from now millions of Thais will have no jobs , a lot less life quality and nowhere to go to . Strange thing is , that the majority of Thais supporting the PAD is from the south of Thailand where all the tourists are . They might be thinking because they got a shop for caterig to Thais only that they are not harmed in any effect but who are the Thais buying their goods and where do they get the money from .... Not to be provocative but many Thai people are soooo short sighted that they do not realise how economy really works . If they are very lucky then maybe end of 2009 there will be some farangs again but since they slaughtered the chicken it will take long long long time to have a new one coming along ... if it will come because Vietnam and Cambodia are allready growin their own species with the same nature ...

It looks as if the government(Prime Minister)are quite content too let this farce go on indefinatly just for the attention it gets,any real government would have had these protesters behind bars by now.

Any real government and you wouldn't have these protesters at all.

The government is the reason why the protesters are on the streets

I do not now any country in the world where there are no protests against the government , if they are allowed to do so . Every country got once a while people going on the street or having a strike or something like that because they do not agree with the government . Only in general , in the most countries police will step in if they cross a certain line . The line here is crossed ... so the police should have stepped in .

Thought #1: Sondhi says they will shoot back at police. I think that clears it up if they're armed or not. This is an armed hostage taking of the airport. Will someone wake up?

Thought #2: 100,000 tourists who can't leave now. This may grow to 300,000 by Monday. Thailand, grow up. Do something.

Thought #1: Wake up and pay attention, rainman, and quit counting cards! He was talking about the "guards" at the ASTV television station, not the protestors at the airport. Yes, some are probably armed at the airport, too, but you are using the wrong source to describe an armed hostage taking of the airport. Hostages? The travelers are free to leave. They did take one hostage, a police officer.

Thought #2: I agree, something needs to be done. I think the prime minister dissolving parliament will solve it. But other than that, how to solve it peacefully with no innocent bloodshed? A majority of the protestors are unarmed civilians. Grandmothers, women, children, etc. What's your suggestion, other than just for Thailand to grow up?

About thought #2 : In short time notice it will solve some things . The airport will be left alone and everybody will go home . There might be a counteraction by the red community to aim straight to the PAD people moving home . That is however is the short time notice .... long term , fresh elections en PPP will win again . That is the basic fact were i am 100% sure of . So ... where to go from there ... again take over the airport ... stuck in the same situation aren't we ???

If by 3 days from now there is no massive action at the airport then the PM will resign because he wouldn't have enough backing from any force which he needs , but it wouldn't be the solution .

I don't think so (the bit about civil war). The notion of northern Thais taking up arms against southern Thais just isn't going to happen. Lawlessness; corruption; economic impasse and confusion - yes. Long-term damage to the nation's world image and credibility; loss of world-standing - quite likely. Coup and counter-coup - probably. But civil war? Nope - 'don't think so.

The basic factors are allthere . Remember that is is going on and on for a lot longer that most people remember ( Thai politics had so many coups that they are allready countless ) . The differences are growing bigger each single moment as we speak and the people supporting them are also getting more and more determinent . This is why we do not have a military coup at the moment because it isn't the solution . They do not have any solution whatsoever . In some areas you allready have a risk of being killed just by wearing the wrong color . imagine that the yellow people are so determined that they actually fight till death , the reds are not going to give up also , espescially because they know they are with more people . Civil war is counting all factors together much closer then you think .

So in your thinking AOT staff should have gunned down the PAD supporters when they took over the aiport?

Yes , just as in any other normal country around the world . Imagine you doing this where-ever you come from and you want to in the main international airport together with a mob where the first row is going with sticks etc ... You do not do that or you will be arrested or shot .

I think we've seen a clear demonstration of just what the natonal police are and are not going to do. Regardless of which faction one favors, or the current government's legitimacy, this government simply isn't able to govern. Soon the world's eyes will turn to Thailand, and somelthing will have to happen. I think the game's actually already over - it's just a matter of the PM retiring his govt with as much face as possible. Not sure what could possibly happen to change this dynamic at this point. The national police could change it, but obviously they're not; the military could change it, but they're just as obviously not going to either. PAD has been gambling on that inaction (or possibly had, shall we say, a certain sense of things...), and it would seem the bet has paid off. It may be in fact, that had it not been for the Mumbai attacks, the PAD would have ALREADY prevailed in this contest.

'Not saying this is the preferred outcome; not saying it does or doesn't bode well for Thailand's future; not saying the people's interests are best served by it all. 'Just saying that's where I think this is headed in the short term.

Yes you are right there . But what to do ... that is the question . Imagine having new elections where i am very sure PPP wins again . so we go back on the street and fight ... and we do it over and over again ??? The way i see it is that there is no solution at all besides a civil war if both parties are not willing to talk to oneother . That is how the situation is at the moment ... and civil war is closer then you want it to be at the moment .

Off topic ... the PAD leaders say they want to get rid of the corrupt government ... not corruption itself .. because they are in fact just the same . Do not even think 1 sec that this country will change if PAD takes over the country . This country is based on corruption on every single bone of it due to the fact that money in Thailand is nr1 and if you have money people are happy to give you more . Like 1 Thai woman said to me ... 1st you need money ( that is M ) after you get power ( that is P ) if you have PM you get more PM and MP .

You actually think that another fresh election would do any good to get out of the impasse ?? They did have elections allready 2 times since Thaksin was removed and 2 times they won . If they have a new election now , the victory for PPP will be higher then last time . More and more people are turning their back on PAD for what they are doing now . That is what i see up here .

Nr 2 : you cannot go into fresh elections just because you got a mob raiding a building . Remove the mob ( PAD ) from the buildings if necessary by violent action and detain the leaders because they are destroying the buildings and just doing illegal act's . Afterwards he can go for election but not now . If they are not willing to talk then you have no ground to walk on . In any normal country the government would have this people removed by force allready , even if it takes lives . Protest , yes no problem ... you have that right , taking hostage of the economy and now even policemen , NO . For me , these people are not much different then the ones causing the problems in Mumbai .

China-Airlines now operating from Utapao for several flights and Chiang Mai for the flight to and from Amsterdam and Taipei ( CI 065/066 ) . Since they opened up many international airports in Thailand i think a lot of the big flights are going again . Check the website from your company to see how they are rerouted and/or going .

Consdiering the government have just replaced the police chief, it looks like they are going to press ahead with a more proactive approach.

Nice ...

Finally some action , something they should have done 3/4 days ago . Boil them or whatever ... as long as they go back home i'm fine . They need to realise that this is something you do not do , you do not take a international airport or a harbour or something like that and if you do punishment would be severe . Would be everywhere in the world ...

....appalling to read how many posters here are mainly concerned about their personal conveniences and privileges ,like air travel,shame on you.....

Yes and no . Political wise , as a farang these things are not of our concern . It is not our country , so we try to stay out of the discussion . However , by taking the airports , they aim directly at us and at the complete Thai tourist industry and gateways to the world . They can go and protest near government buildings , no problem , have been doing that for 6 months , that is not concerning . Now it is our concern since they made it our concern so face it ... PAD made a gigantic mistake to take the travelling passenger in near hostage situation ( if you cannot go home and forcing you to stay somewhere where you do not want to be , by my name it is called hostage ) .

The previous elections were democratic . Sure , the parties both hand over money to buy votes , but is is all sites doing that . PPP won and that's it . I hope the army finally does what they are supposed to do . Clear the airport , if necesarry by force and restore order .