sanooki

Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Since my last post, we've already found a new place in a larger, more professional building that routinely welcomes foreign tenants, and will be taking one-year leases. We've decided we don't want to be here anymore and will be informing her the day before our move, which will be a bit over one month early. I'll gladly take the hit. We will dutifully inform immigration immediately of our new address. I had to go with the landlord and and sister this year because we were caught unaware that they would want two. We tried around our place to find others, but none of them had tabien bahns in-district, which was also a requirement. This poo-bahn knew she had me in a corner, and did take advantage of it. I don't exactly know what it helps anything, as the opposite effect will be had, she will lose a good-paying customer. This was our first extension here in Korat. We don't know yet if they would come again on a second, but this office seems a bit stricter than others and I've heard sometimes they will do if you don't have a child. I also don't know yet if the visit is triggered by a move in-district. My wife did get a chance to ask if our landlord will do the same next year, and what was her reasoning for what she did. The reply was baffling and illogical. Firstly, she said if we use only her as a witness, we could pay each month normally. But, if we need her sister again, we must pay the rent ahead of time. Secondly, the reasoning she gave was that they once had a foreigner stay who moved out somewhere else after she was a witness, and the police came to check if he was still there. She claimed it was "difficult" for them, without explaining exactly how. Two problems with this story. One, when we originally looked at the apartment, I emphasized that I would need a witness for my extension. She said, of course, no problem at all. She didn't mention ever having such a problem. I would have never moved here if I would have known. Also, why no problem with one witness even now, yet if I want two I gotta pay through the nose up front? Two, these people seem to believe that they are guaranteeing to the police that I will live in my apartment continually for the term of the lease. Where is that ever required, and by whom? It's ridiculous. Everyone takes trips, and can have multiple residences. The only thing the witnesses are attesting to is whether they've occasionally seen me together with my wife at the apartment. If I were to go anywhere else, the police would only be interested in whether I was with my wife and my location was legally determinable. Nowhere in any lease ever have I promised I will only stay in that one place. A lease is a guarantee of access to a place for a set fee. The only reasons I prefer the marriage visa in-country are that I may want to work some day, not yet sure, the money requirements are less than the retirement visa, and I prefer not to need to leave the country. None of these are insurmountable if I'm forced, but I'd rather have these options the way they are. Anyways, thanks for the info, and the opportunity to vent. :)

Thanks, I didn't know they can visit for the 90-day retirement visa. I thought the only reason for a visit would be to check the husband and wife situation. I am considering the retirement visa to avoid this in the future, and my other backup is to go for a marriage visa in Savannahket. But these options have drawbacks for me.

The second witness I used I had also never met. But, she was the older sister of my landlord and a pooban here. You'd think she might know of me, or at least would trust her sister to tell her I was a decent tenant. She's the one who insisted on this insanity. I guess she considers herself clever or something.

Nice. I've been surprised at what I've been seeing in Korat.

Right. We cleared the hurdle already for this year, but did the extra 6 months lease at the beginning of the month of renewal. One of the staff actually groused a bit that there were less than 6 months on it. What you say about the requirement makes sense, and I can't imagine anyone at immigration will make trouble if we move out before lease end. We did our last two times, and the facts are surely there for them to know, if they care. But, really, I think a lot of this is down to bureaucracy and underlings not understanding the reasoning behind rules. That's what bites us sometimes, unfortunately.

Hi. It's downtown Korat. We are looking to move not too far from here. We like Korat and were even interested in keeping our apartment. I know different places have different requirements, such as some only require 1 witness, which is part of why we were caught off-guard on short notice. We also don't know if they will visit every year or only the first time.

Instead of saying if one encounters all aholes, then he must be the ahole, I will say that encounters rely on the beliefs and experiences of the people involved. Thai people often seem to have a simplified stereotype ingrained that comes mainly from the media and other Thais amplifying that stereotype. Their encounters with foreigners are limited, and many of them may fit the pattern of their stereotype. They also have their own, often cookiecutter, motivations based on their somewhat limited prospects, that come into play. So, it's pretty rare, in my years here, to encounter someone who has an independent and unbiased stance to me, who must outwardly appear the same as any other foreigner they've ever seen. Although understandable, it does sometimes get very tiring to seemingly never be able to make progress in these challenging relationships over many years. I try to look at the advantages, which sometimes is not easy, but always to me seem to outweigh the disadvantages.

I've been living in Thailand for about 13 years in total, and haven't been out for over 8. I'm on my 3rd consecutive marriage extension since retiring a little over 2 years ago. I had two others with my ex-wife. My wife and I are trying out places where we might want to settle down, so we're on our second location now, in Isaan. Timing apartment moves has been a little tricky due to what I think is an odd requirement by IOs: that one must have a lease that extends for 6 to 12 months after the application date. I'm not sure about the expectations of immigration offices, as well as how the resulting leases are interpreted by landlords. In many places I've stayed, landlords don't even require a lease after the first one expires. One can continue on for months with no problem. But, as soon as immigration gets involved, and especially if the landlord serves as a witness for a marriage extension, things get a little weird. They seem to think they are somehow now responsible for our behavior and whereabouts. Some assumptions: I do not believe a witness to a marriage extension application promises, by signing as a witness, anything other than that she has seen the husband and wife together frequently or believes they are truly living together as husband and wife. As far as leases go, I believe they are promises to pay rent for an apartment for a period of time, on the part of the renter, and promises to allow the renter access for a period of time in exchange for rent, on the part of the landlord. I have never seen in any lease, or in visa and extension documentation, any mention of a promise by the lessee to physically live in an apartment under lease. Sure, I can understand that having a long-term lease is one indicator that a visa holder is seriously domiciled with his wife. But, there is nothing to stop one from having multiple apartments, or from going to the wife's home for a month, or from taking a few weeks vacation, for examples. If an alien moves to another location, I understand it is the responsibility of the new location's owner, and also the alien, to report the new location within a set time period, so that immigration can know where we are. So, excuse the long-winded intro, but why are IOs and landlords often fixated on how long, after a visa extension is granted, one will stay in their apartment? What they should be concerned with is that if I am moving around, does my wife go with me. Right? My extension is predicated on whether I'm really married and living with my wife, right? Not on if I'm staying in one particular place or another. Why should I be made to feel that it's suspicious to travel around this lovely country? I mean, that's a big part of what many are here for, right? Why am I worked up about this, you might ask? Well, my landlord decided to make it a requirement that if I want to use her older sister, who is a poo-baan(elder boss of the moo-ban) as a payan(witness) on my extension applications, I must pay my rent 6 to 12 months in advance. She hit me with this on the morning the police were coming for their marriage visa home visit a few months back. I had no choice but to go along with it. This feels to me more than a bit like extortion, and I'm (understandably?) wanting to find a new place to live. She cannot be reasoned with on this issue. I still have a couple months left on my lease, which is pre-paid at this point, but I want to get out now. Somehow, I feel that the loss on rent that I will endure is not enough for them. They want to guarantee that I stay exactly here until the end of the lease. How is this logical or fair? There's more to this story, but I'll save that for possible discussion.

Laugh from your cage soon.

Until they've got CBDCs.

Maybe this is another topic, or subject of ridicule, but I wonder if anyone has had success taking their Thai wife to live in the Philippines?

Yes. Thanks for the comment. It was my first experience in Isaan, and they're like piranhas stripping flesh off a carcass--very politely. I have a few doubts about doing it out of country. Maybe you know if they frown on doing it repeatedly? I plan on being here until the end, and if they will eventually refuse me from doing the Non-O ME, I could be SOL at some point. Secondly, my uncertainty around leaving the country should there be another plandemic, as many are expecting. I haven't been out for over 8 years, but my wife has been nudging for a trip to Laos or Vietnam lately. Cheers!

Since folks were generous with time and advice, I wish to add an epilogue to this chapter for any still tuning in or may chance upon this thread in the future. Actually, depending, I might choose to open a new thread on the topic of "extortion in Isaan." :) So, the date to pick up my new extension stamp arrived yesterday. According to the paperwork, it was finalized on the 17th, but I did not receive any such courtesy call to come in. As if they wanted to prolong my uncertainty to the max. I saw the paperwork, because they actually hand it to you here, at the outside reception window. So, I got to sit and look through it as I was waiting. On the front page, I saw I had been approved! There were a couple printouts of "troublemaker" guys with similar names as mine who came up in their computer search. There was a page certifying that I was not one of those guys (they were like 30 years younger than me) and that I had a good record. So, I got the good news as I was waiting for my stamp, which was nice. My number came up and I ended up with the exact same lady who had hassled me the day we applied. She seemed to remember me, but was very pleasant and businesslike, finishing my stamp in about 10 minutes. I thanked and wai'd her and she returned, showing they had also done and attached my new 90 day form. And, that was it, as if nothing had happened before. I grabbed this good luck and left, feeling light. Nothing too exciting, so the folks who said it was a done deal were absolutely correct. For a month, I had the nagging feeling something could go wrong. But it was apparently for no reason--except that I had received a veiled threat the month before. I have rationalized this as part them not really being able to know when someone is a "bad person" or not, so they treat everyone as if they are. The other part I believe there could be something to the idea that they were hinting at a donation. If that is true, I think they are way too subtle in their hint. When we left the IO, my wife told me she overheard the same boss lady shaking down another hapless expat with the same routine. So, beware if you go there. Speaking of bribes, donations, etc. I have more to say that I've been saving of the event of the IO home visit, regarding 2 instances of "additional costs" to this process. The first one, fairly common I'm fairly sure, was that the officers requested some help with petrol money. I didn't know what would be appropriate, so I sent my wife with 500. They actually suggested 1000, but were happy enough with what she had in hand. The second instance, I would more likely call extortion. I've never heard of anything like it. We were unprepared for the requirement to have two witnesses with particular qualities. Nobody we knew around our place had tabien bahns in the district except our landlord. As I related earlier, her older sister is a Poo bahn here. She agreed to help on the morning of our visit, at the last second. But she had a condition: our landlord relayed to us that her sister had asked if we were planning to stay for a year or two, and would I make another new lease and pay the entire term up front! Can you imagine? My wife was either a genius or had a stroke of luck, so said the best thing. We had already submitted our six month lease with our app, so it would have to be five months. Of course, I had to agree to do this, and thanked my lucky stars this was money I planned to spend anyways. But, the coercive nature of what they did really rubbed me the wrong way. It reminds me of a much bigger example of the stereotypical thinking of shop owners here who raise their prices when business is bad. Before this happened, my wife and I had been talking about how we might actually want to stay for a while, since our landlord was to that point so helpful. However... Sorry about the long-winded story. This was my first experience doing an extension in Isaan. I get the sense Isaan people are uniquely, "pragmatic." (?) But, I'm really not sure I'm going to be able to be happy out here if I'm going to deal with this. Considering BKK and other locations now. So much more food for thought. But, maybe some other days, some more posts. Cheers to one more year!

I tend to agree. Maybe you're both right. It occurs to me that it's "visible crime" that's fairly quickly attended to. If there's allegations of theft or property damage, that's usually a different story.

Congrats!