LevelHead

Very suspicious in my view.

First of all this morning I read China offers skin grafting doctors.

Now they offer 500K US$

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/02...al_30092322.php

Given China is fighting worldwide problems of quality of their goods..............I get the feeling this may have been caused by "Poor Quality Chinese Indoor Fireworks" that have gone wrong and caused the problems. Anyone have any details on the type of fireworks ?

Thats my view, and it may be wrong, but it has to be said their sudden assistance does not always mean its for the good of all people, often they have reasons behind it, wonder if the Chinese Embassy was told it was some dodgy Chinese made fireworks that caused all this ????????

Not make any allegations, however just airing my thoughts.

I think that is over reaching somewhat. They have given very generously. Good for them.

In the realms of international diplomacy, I think if they had any inkling they had anything to do with this tragedy, say nothing would be better.

The Thai police can't even locate the license holders yet, so as for where any possible fireworks came from?

Having lived there, I don't think the Chinese government is that cynical or the population of China that stupid.

Considering that Chinese Fireworks in China and fires/explosion in factories that make them maim and injure thousands annually, and are reknowned for being "cheap but poor quality"...........don't you think its very suspicious.

They are presently fighting worldwide problems with the tainted milk scandal (seen lots of cheap Chinese made milky sweets in Thailand....yes), tainted toothpastes and all sorts of problems with poor quality of things manufactured in China.

The last thing they would need know is a big worldwide scandal of fireworks.............and lots of bad media yet again, so close after the tainted milk problems.

TAWP, you have already blatently lied.

By saying quote "the initial reason for this mutilation was to reduce the boys ability to masturbate. To control their sexuality"

That is a total and utter lie. Circumcision does not effect in any way a boys ability to masturbate and have sex.

So now you have "lied and lost" you revert to now its just a "barbarian act".

So cutting of comething that can transmit HIV to its owner, that can be the cause of disease through unproper cleaning, that can carry disease through unproper cleaning, and that when its off you have a massive reduction in any chance of picking up HIV, and it makes no difference to your sexual ability, enjoyment or whatever.........now.........given that, all you can say is its "barbarian".

LOL - stereotypical nonsense.

Very suspicious in my view.

First of all this morning I read China offers skin grafting doctors.

Now they offer 500K US$

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/01/02...al_30092322.php

Given China is fighting worldwide problems of quality of their goods..............I get the feeling this may have been caused by "Poor Quality Chinese Indoor Fireworks" that have gone wrong and caused the problems. Anyone have any details on the type of fireworks ?

Thats my view, and it may be wrong, but it has to be said their sudden assistance does not always mean its for the good of all people, often they have reasons behind it, wonder if the Chinese Embassy was told it was some dodgy Chinese made fireworks that caused all this ????????

Not make any allegations, however just airing my thoughts.

LOL - yes of course, and you know all about the past history of humans.

Well, Ancient Egyptions, we are talking circa 3000 to 4000 years ago from the time when records are first available, practised circumcision.

Did you ask them why ? Although it says for cleanliness, I am sure you have access to some old stone tablets saying it was to stop them having a quick jerk off.

From the ancient Egyptions came Judaism, from there Christianity and Islam.

So, perhaps with that in mind, and you do not have any proof of evidence behind your "to stop the fun" comment, we can get back to the reality that circumcised men are much less likely to have HIV, and if all men were circumcised, HIV could be nearly eradicated.

Considering that of the worlds population today, all Jews and Muslims are circumcised, along with many non-Jews and non-Muslims, its easy to suggest that in fact the ratio of cut to uncut might be quite close. I am sure the billions who are cut enjoy their masturbation just as much as you, so whats your issue ?

FACTS - cicumcision greatly reduces the chances of ever catching AIDS through normal vaginal sex.

Fighting facts for some sterotypical or religious reason is quite pathetic.

So thats maybe the real reason why they are not trumpeting from the rooftops this vital information............................cause Christianity made an error in not copying this from the older religions (even though Jesus would have been circumcised as he was a Jew, as were his discliples).

It's nice to know that you promote mutilation of infant boys as a way to protect them against HIV.

Ofcourse you would be aware of the fact that the initial reason for this mutilation was to reduce the boys ability to masturbate. To control their sexuality. Why not cut it off completely? This ough to reduce their chance of recieving it via sexual interactions to much lower levels...

So excuse me for not cheering in your joy of a few backwards religions actively performing physical abuse against their kids.

Using condoms and common sense is so much less painful.

Some links, although they do not "herald" the news........its rather "under reported and low key" for such vital news...............

EG, how many of you people here knew of this, before I posted about it ???????????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6176209.stm

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7249/1592?ck=nck

To answer my own post somewhat, I could add, the reason they do not tell people is :

1/ Judaism is the oldest of todays religions, obviously. Christianity is the second oldest being around 1808 years old (it start about 200 years after the death of whoever "Jesus of Nazareth" was.) and of course Muhammed's Islam comes in much younger than both of them.

So if you consider most people forget the ancient Egyptians, the first of 'todays religions" that uses 100% circumcision is Judaism.

Oh my God............they all say. If we even incline that the Jews were right and people should be circumcised the political/religious fallout would be too great, so don't tell anyone.

And there you have it............quite simply the Jews and the Muslims, all being circumcised, have the "we were right" and all you beleivers of other incorrect faiths were wrong and are all going to die...............

So thats maybe the real reason why they are not trumpeting from the rooftops this vital information............................cause Christianity made an error in not copying this from the older religions (even though Jesus would have been circumcised as he was a Jew, as were his discliples).

"The number of HIV infections in young women is two-fold higher than that of young men."

Common sense would suggest that young teenage girls are getting the virus from older men through sex who are likely getting it themselves from sharing needles or visiting prostitutes.

yeah, let's blame the old guys !!

According to the mainstream, there is a much greater risk of male to female transmission, so in that respect the figures would be very much what one would expect.

I don't know how it goes for HIV but with infections in general, a common pattern is for one person to be very much more infectious than others, and thus pass the disease on to a high number of people. That would require someone quite promiscuous and able, and would probably predict that it would be a younger male.

It's always been a puzzle to me how these guys get infected themselves as heterosexual males are least likely to become infected. My feeling is that homosexuality, and drug use is much more common than one might think.

Personally, I don't wholly go with the mainstream regarding HIV anyway. Too many anomalies.

You have to get down to basics. HIV is a blood or blood products to blood transmission.

The initial reason that gay men got infected so much was thought to be down to unprotected anal sex which allowed easy transfer from semen to ruptured anus, as the act often breaks the skin the anal area.

Gay men know the dangers and have move to using condoms and lubricants in the "developed" world, however in third world countries unprotected anal sex is common.

It is also easy for a women to catch HIV as the man leaves a blood product (semen) inside her. The vaginal area has very thin walls and its very easy for the HIV virus to infect a woman.

As time goes by the incidence of female infection is rising as against gay men.

However, and sadly its not talked about much, a vast majority of men appear to be somewhat immune to HIV, well its not in fact immunity, its the fact that their body does not have the "receptor" on.

From studies its become apparent that circumsized men are far less likely to catch HIV from having sex (unprotected) with another man or woman.

They have found that the male foreskin is the "HIV receptor" in men. A man with a foreskin is far more likely to catch HIV than one without, the odds are not clear but could be more than a thousand times more likely.

So your basic (sex wise) high risk group are :

1/ Gay men who do not practise safe sex.

2/ Women who do not practise safe sex.

3/ Uncircumsized men who do not practise safe sex.

A normal hetrosexual circumsized man, the chances of getting HIV even when having sex (normal vaginal) with an infected female is close to zero.

Why they do not tell people this I do not know, however considering that circumsion started with the ancient Egyptians and (like say the ten commandments which also come from the Egyptians far before Moses, from a spell in the Book of the Dead) circumcision has been copied from the ancient Egyptions by both Jews and Muslims, its quite strange that Christianity and other smaller religions/beliefs have not adopted it.

If there was worldwide circumsion done, HIV could be nearly eradicated after a period of time.

However, as the worlds population explodes, and HIV really tends to only affect those who are very poor, uncircumsized or promiscious, perhaps they see it as a way of controlling population (the unwanted type) and thus food supplies.

I mean, if they were not being killed in some parts of Africa by HIV, they would be starving to death instead.

So now you know why the worlds "hotspots" for HIV are such :

Africa - poor non muslim countries as not circumcised

Asia - Non circumsized population.

South America - Non circumsized poplulation.

USA and Europe, owing to condom use has the problem under control.

Jewish and Muslim countries are less affected because.....well........circumsized.

Injecting drugs is a different matter, I think we all know.

So why are "they" hiding (or lets say not trumpeting from the rooftops) the fact that circumcision can prevent men from getting HIV, and thus stop the spread of it to females ??????????

Makes you wonder...................

They announce on the plane that you can get fast track entry, but there's no obvious queue. I presume it's the diplomatic line along with 1st class.

The dedicated outbound queue is nice. Can go through 30 mins before take off with no worries.

Correct, inbound you use the same area as Diplomat / 1st Class, which is on the right hand side of the main area's.

One set of rules for the rich and another for the poor. Civil War within 2 years. It's Cambodia all over again. Viva La Revolution.

A post this stupid deserves a round of applause.

There are some seriously stupid people on here, and as is said, you cannot make a dumb person intelligent, all they can do is drag you down to their level. My last post on here until we are at the stage of corruption charges, when I shall return to remind all these brainwashed people of what they said and how they supported it all to happen, so blindly.

There is a chance of civil war in two years. VERY REAL. You would be stupid to ignore the potential.

1/ World Wide Recession and Depression. Japan is now being hammered.

This means Thailand next year will be particularly hit badly with much reduced demand for anything to be made in Thailand. Thailand sadly makes not very much itself and is a workshop but not the owner of the technology.

This will lead to hundreds of thousands of people being laid off, returning to their villages and having no work. This will lead to a massive impact on rural wealth, and lead to a very nasty slope resulting in drugs, drink and theiving.

This will of course be blamed soley on the Democrats and their intereference. It will be blamed on the PAD and Bangkok Elite, who are happy and rich while the poor suffer.

This could turn into a very nasty situation.

2/ On top of this Tourism will be hit hard due to the PAD, the WWR, and present Baht strength.

Again this will feed mostly down to effect the rural poor, and there will be a drying up of the funds thats sent from Bangkok/Phuket/Pattaya/Samui back to the rural area's.

Again this will be blamed on the incumbent government and the PAD for making all this mess.

Therefore you could be looking at the majority rural poor being devastated financially in the coming 12 months and more, which will get blamed on the Democrats/PAD/Bangkok Elite.

If at that time a person can rouse them up and lead them, then civil war could easily happen, expecially if the expected, but dreaded death of a particularly well loved and respected gentlemen should happen.

To ignore the world events going on, the effect they will have on the rural poor, and how this will all be laid firmly at the feet of the incumbents, is to be very STUPID.

Anyway, no more posts from me, thats it, I am not going to continue to be dragged down by the stupid people on here, when the corruption charges are flying against the new government I will come back with lots of I told you so, to make up for not posting now

Enjoy

Oh dear, has this really degenerated so much that people are claiming petty "victories" just because this or that happens ?

Rather childish.

The UDD/DAAD have been warned and we have already seen their people locked up in jail. Unlike any PAD supporter who resorted to violence or vandalising state property.

This is why yesterday the UDD/DAAD left a small opening all the way to parliament so that MP's could "walk there" - as they had to be sure they did not "block them" or they would be arrested UNLIKE THE PAD.

You see the PAD sponsors are so powerful now that nobody can stand in their way, Thailand is now in a very dangerous situation where a certain group of people are controlling the Army, Government, Judiciary and by way of that influence over the Police.

Therefore the UDD/DAAD knew they cannot block the policy statement being made, all they can do is take the moral high ground that they did not break the law, and keep the push on for all Yellow shirts to be arrested and charged. This remains a key political tool now to hammer the Democrats with, and not let the media forget that the PAD must be charged, which the Democrats will delay and try to avoid. In my opinion you will not see any PAD leaders taken to task within this governments term. They might collect information and begin to look at things, but likely they will not quite finish the investigations before the next election, so that the PAD can them claim any action after that is based on retribution. This is politics, so mark this post and wait and watch.

The UDD/DAAD also claimed 20,000 supporters on Sunday (holiday) and can claim today they are not paying people and people have jobs to go to, which is why they are low on numbers, unlike the PAD who were reported to be paying 900B a day, along with free food and drink and entertainment and clothing. Again, UDD/DAAD claim the moral high ground.

The Democrats will have two things on their mind, get as much money as possible in the shortest possible time and also change the constituion to protect their power in the future. How delightful that a massive government spending campaign is just about to be announced, and where will all those contracts be placed ?

Therefore, the oppostion must now play the game, which they will. Expect them to not only not attend the policy meeting, they will also refuse to be the oppostion and will not to any checks at all.......for a period of time.

They will charge that the Democrats will have to pay back all the favours, and so corruption will be rampant. Therefore, rather than make them try to be careful, they will in fact just walk away and leave the Coalition MP's like children in a sweet shop, with no watchers, no camera's, just their own conscience not to take the sweets.

We all know what will happen..............TIT............and then the opposition will come swooping back demanding investigations into all projects, all bank accounts, all foreign transfers of money, all payments, all tenders etc..... and they are likely to catch a number, and then this will lead to another round of corruption cases and what they hope will then finally be the dissoluton of the Democrats.

This is a game.

So my predictions :

1/ PAD leaders will not be prosecuted under this Democrat government.

2/ No opposition will be present most of the time, certainly no shadow cabinet, they will let the Democrats operate with no checks/balance for a period of time.

3/This Democrat government will spend more than any other government in a shorter period of time.

4/ It will all end in massive corruption allegations.

I rest my case for now, there is no point having a discussion with the "blind" who wish to remain "blind by choice".

I am sure you were up there in your yellow shirt blocking the airport for the good of the people too LOL

I do not deny that anyone was not corrupt, or that any parties were not corrupt.

You and certain others try to portray that only Thaksin was ever corrupt in Thailand, and this is TOTALLY IDIOTIC.

Its like having the same PAD tactics on the boards too - keep rattling of the same old nonsense and lies and eventually it becomes so bad people will accept it cause they are bored sick of it and try to move on and away from it.

Over and out.

Level ----

If you think most countries have a 2 party system then you need to go read up on politics a bit before commenting further!

Electoral processes are crooked in every country.

Do you think that Obama spending over 600million US$ is not going to lead to corruption ? Will a number of the large donors not be expecting favour and government contracts in return for their "donations".

Same in Thailand, big companies make donations to political parties, and then expect to get government tenders and contracts, and exemptions and special favour.

This system is in place all over the world, and its why all politicians are labelled as liars and corrupt, no matter what party they represent.

This is why there is no true Democracy in the world, all there is in every country is a corrupt elite that controls power alternating between right and left hand, which is why most countries have just a 2 party system.

The trouble in Thailand is that a third hand came on to the scene, and you cannot live with 3 hands, so one had to be chopped off.

The no vote campaign is illegal as it is by law required for Thai's to vote, how the Democrats got away with that is, well, now part of the reason we are in the troubles we are in.

So spank them. Electoral fraud is also illegal and why should people support an electoral process that is obviously crooked ? The root cause of the 'troubles we are in' is the disgusting abuse of power, corruption and disrespect for rule of law shown by that wanna-be tin pot dictator, Thaksin.

If, as everyone knew, the PPP were to be dissolved how could they call an election ?????

They would have been dissolved and banned half way through the election campaign ?

Add on to this the PAD tactic, which is "grind people down". They hope to win by messing things up so much in the end everyone will just vote for party that can be in power and get rid of the PAD.

Its a tactic of war..........if, as they did, the PAD become such a pain in the butt to everyone, then eventually everyone will want "the easy way out".

This is happening now with the Democrats and lots of people trying to say "lets move forward".

This is very wrong, the PAD has moved it backwards and hoped that this action will eventually make everyone be happy with a bad result, than no result at all.

In view of that it was very wise to not have an election at that time, it needed to run its course, it needed to have the Democrats sneaked in through the back door, and allow people to see what is going on, and also to see that the Red Shirts will be an equal pain in the butt as the Yellow shirts.

Knowing this, people will not easily be slipped into "lets get this over and go with the Democrats" so easily, they will know there is no "easy choice" and they must stick to their rightful choice, whatever that is, and not be pushed into it by being sick to the teeth of the PAD.

It's not relevant to todays protest, it is of an earlier protest.... But don't put an old violent picture up with an article about today's so far peaceful protest. It gives the viewer the impression that things are violent, and currently that is not the case.

Also it's "red shirts at parlement", but the old picture he used does not even have a red shirt

Now if it turns violent today, then put up todays violent pictures with a story about the protest today....

On a point of fact, apart from the red neck-ties worn by some of these demonstrators, I can clearly see at least two people in red-shirts, in the picture.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

To the "extreme" in future it will be North East will be one area with one MP as will the North with one MP.

Hat Yai will elect 50 MP's, Surat Thani another 50 MP's, Yala 50 MP's etc.......therefore allowing Democrat rule for ever more....... LOL

Do you have a source, crediting the Democrats, with this interesting proposal, which I haven't seen anywhere else, or is it just invented ?

He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

The PPP could have called an election any time they wanted to. They did not, because they knew that in a new election, with all the anti Thaksinists united behind a single party instead of splitting their vote across several parties, the PPP would be decimated. The PPP refused to call a new election during the protests, they needed to pardon Thaksin and remove corruption charges while they still had a chance, an election would have removed that opportunity. The fact is that only a small minority of Thais support Thaksin these days. Thaksin really has no hope at this point. He probably deludes himself in to believing that he is loved by the masses, his propaganda machine is effective enough that he likely believes it at this point. I don't expect justice to ever be done and Thaksin to be imprisoned for the rest of his life, but he is not getting back in to power.

This makes the point well, that the PPP-government had every opportunity to test their popularity with the voters, but failed to take it. If Thaksin does truly believe that 'his' party could still win an election, run under his brother-in-law rather than a military-appointed government, why did he not give the orders to do so ?

FRAUD ??

The Democrats ran a "no vote" campaign and refused to run (as they would lose).

TRT simply made up some parties to run in the elections so that there was not just a "single party". They were not fake parties, they simply in some cases did not comply with the "length of time" required for qualification.

It should be added that TRT beat "No Votes".........meaning that had any party run they would have lost (as was known and why they did not run).

The no vote campaign is illegal as it is by law required for Thai's to vote, how the Democrats got away with that is, well, now part of the reason we are in the troubles we are in.

Both parties should have been dissolved or neither, and had that happened back then things would have been very different today.

How serious one offence is compared to another is not a point of law, it is only if they break the law, in any way, minor or major, the party should be dissolved. This did not happen history and the arguments today suggest.

Cabinet positions yes, that will happen, but whats your thoughts on Newins younger brother being brought in last week to "help" the Interior Ministry, for example ?

Also, Peau Thai have a case gone to the constitutional court for the dissolvment of the Democrat Party.

As you will have seen Newin was photo's with Abhisit all over the media, cuddles and flowers as they tried to portray "union" and "agreement" ahead of the coalition being formed.

However, Newin was already banned from politics for 5 years just a few days earlier, and one of the conditions of that is "not being allowed to be at rallies, or be seen giving support to any other political party".

Abhisit and therefore the Democrats therefore broke the 5 year ban by embracing Newin and having it plastered all over the media.

Whats your thoughts on this ? Should the judiciary just "forget it" or should they keep with the letter of the law and perhaps now dissolve the Democrats ?

Level ---

TRT was disbanded for quite some different reasons than the Demos were in trouble for ... TRT was for vote FRAUD and the Demos were in trouble for not choosing to contest the elections as was their right. The Demos were NOT unanimously thought to be unconstitutional in that they did NOT tell people to not vote, instead they ran a no-vote campaign preventing the elections from returning a full house. (note that only TRT and the 2 other parties were up for FRAUD)

You are playing fast and loose with reality when you present those cases as being equal.

BTW --- only if a party is disbanded are the EXECS of that party banned. How effective a ban is in Thailand is certainly up for discussion as we are dealing with not only Newin but also Thaksin and many of the others that were banned with TRT to this day!

As for cabinet positions --- those are awarded proportionally ... though in the case where a smaller group is the deciding factor the leading partner in a coalition would be remiss to not make sure that the small group was represented in the new cabinet. ((I assume you know all this and are just pandering to the people that are clueless and easily swayed!)

If we are going for old photo's, I was most surprised this photo made it into "international media" in August 2008, but no such thing in Thai media ?

Wonder why they did not want it publicised the Army were training the PAD guards ?

You are aware that "a few" of Newin's mates went over to join the coalition.

You are aware that Newin's younger brother has now just been taken on by the Interior Ministry as a special "consultant", just last week.

You are aware many veteran Democrats were most upset Newin's lot gained top posts.

EG the "Newin" faction appear to have been "bought" in their words, given positions of power and the ability to make money, in return for letting the Democrats have the leadership.

Is that a coalition ? Really ?

Or are they just "feeding them" to keep them in control, while they carry out their tasks, one of which is constitutional reform.

They removed it from the policy speech they are trying to give, but be sure, its going to happen if they can get away with it.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politics/8...-in-govt-policy

.

....the Democrats will want to stay in power long enough to ammend the consitution and the electoral system such that TRT/PPP/PT can never win again, even if they have the majority votes.

Rather like Labour has done in the UK, they have reformed the consituences border lines to water down the Conservatives voting power.

The Democrats will attempt to do this and this is what the UDD and TRT/PPP/PT will now be fighting.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

You are aware that this is a coalition government aren't you? What this means is that no one political party can unilaterally change the constitution without the support of the majority of the other MP's in the coalition (i.e. this government is not solely controlled by the Democrats).

Many of the MP's in the current government were the same as when Thaksin's nominee government ruled. They did not seek to change the constitution then. Why all of a sudden will they seek to do that now?

Have you really got such a bad memory ? Or just being "biased" ?

Thaksin EC ?? I think not.......Junta was in charge, Sondhi even let it slip they would be dissolved before the verdict, then backtracked fast.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/02/12...cs_30026597.php

+++++++++++++++++

Democrats along with TRT were "recommended" to be dissolved

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/06/27...es_30007427.php

+++++++++++++++++

And then in 2007 the Democrats were let off of everything, no dissolution, no bans. TRT was disbanded and 111 execs banned for 5 years.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200705/3...531_379528.html

++++++++++++++++++

Fair........ ?? LOL - you are clouded in your mind and forgetting where this all started.

Far too many people nicely miss out masses on information thats relative to the whole situation.

1/ The last TWO Democrat governments were kicked out for corruption.

2/ When TRT was disbanded "very surpsingly" the Democrats were not...

Oh please, the first Dem govt resigned voluntarily under public pressure over allegations of corruption. Has TRT/PPP goverment paid any attention to public pressure? Shameless is the word for them.

Second Democrat government simply lost elections.

TRT was disbanded for for setting up fake political parties with fake credentials, Democrats have never even been accused of any scams of such proportions. The recommendation of party dissolution was reached under Thaksin friendly EC, by EC appointed panel. It's a silly excuse to claim that it was just because of junta appointed court.

And what is this nonsense about Dems getting yellow cards when PPP got red for same offences? You just made it up.

Justice and fairness is when punishment is dispersed according to crimes, not equally between pariticipants, as you seem to imply.

I would say you are all missing the point. The state of the world economy and the state of Thailand's tourism after the PAD antic's, along with the strong baht is now killing the economy.

More and more people are losing their jobs, the effects of the bad "high tourist" season will really hurt in the summer of 09 onwards.

This falls all into Thaksin's hand as it can be clearly seen to even the rice farmers that life under TRT was good, but under the Democrats/PAD its not.

No.....the Democrats will want to stay in power long enough to ammend the consitution and the electoral system such that TRT/PPP/PT can never win again, even if they have the majority votes.

Rather like Labour has done in the UK, they have reformed the consituences border lines to water down the Conservatives voting power.

The Democrats will attempt to do this and this is what the UDD and TRT/PPP/PT will now be fighting.

Watch out for electoral reform changes to be done by the Democrats with full backing of the PAD is they can get away with it, its quite simple in Thailand, if the people now want democracy after tasting it, take it away from them.

To the "extreme" in future it will be North East will be one area with one MP as will the North with one MP.

Hat Yai will elect 50 MP's, Surat Thani another 50 MP's, Yala 50 MP's etc.......therefore allowing Democrat rule for ever more....... LOL

Thaksin's terrified that Aphisit's government, containing talented individuals such as himself, Korn, Jurin etc, will be successful and win over Issan's hearts. Then it's bye- bye for him forever and his minions who have come to depend on his funds for so long.

This is exactly what it is about. Thaksin has to smash the curerent government now or his position weakens. Expect him to try for any kind of chaos as evidented by the red shirts doing exactly what they said they wouldnt and beseige parliament.

Thaksin also is financuially a lot weaker than he was. Even if only 1% of the rumours of his financial situation are true he is rapidly conming to a point where he doesnt have the cash to play politics anymore without the support of other donors. Theese are abandoning his side rapidly. This makes the situation dangerous asd Thaksin must go for the win and the red shirts are his only hope. He needs an election before his position collapses. His opponents only need to avoid an election for a year or so and that is possible.

I agree.

Far too many people nicely miss out masses on information thats relative to the whole situation.

1/ The last TWO Democrat governments were kicked out for corruption.

2/ When TRT was disbanded "very surpsingly" the Democrats were not.

3/ The TRT being disbanded came under a coup appointed government and coup appointed supervision judicial system.

4/ The last election was held under martial law in many places.

5/ In the last election it was clearly reported all Army personal were told to vote Democrat, being a direct order they could not go against it.

6/ Many TRT/PPP politicians were given straight Red cards by the EC, however Democrat and others simply got a yellow card for the same offences.

7/ The more TRT/PPP politicians under the "5 year ban" the more and more support the red shirts will have.

8/ In spite of the Army sending out solidiers to "talk to the people" and in spite of the martial law and in spite of the "all eyes watching all PPP politcians" and in spite of the directives to vote Democrat, the PPP still won.

9/ Read 8 again for those who claim the PPP cheated.

10/ The last coup appointed government achieved nothing. Another one will also achieve nothing and will result in further swing of voters to TRT/PPP/PT.

11/ The PAD are very "protective" of the new 2007 consitution maybe thats because it gives Amnesty to all coup people. If the 2007 constituon is removed and we roll backwards to the last consitition, all the coup leaders could be tried for treason under the previous constituion they voided and replaced (for obvious reasons).

12/ ..........

I could go on and on but in all reality whats the point, everyone is still going to argue and ignore what they want to ignore and promote the bits they want to promote.

Sit back and watch it happen.

Ah....good. Someone else with the intelligence to look past the media spin and hype and lies and deceit and rumour and counter rumour, yellow, red, green, black, white and all the other stuff that keeps the "great unwashed" so amused.

Yes ....it really is all about the well-connected patron-client system abusers who are terrified that one-person-one-vote will lead to the dismantling of that system - one through which they have so richly feathered their nests.

So let's keep things in perspective. This isn't about Thaksin anymore (and probably never really was) - it's about the well-connected patron-client system abusers who are terrified that one-person-one-vote will lead to the dismantling of that system - one through which they have so richly feathered their nests. They saw what Thaksin was able to do through mobilizing the nation's poor behind him - this military-bureacratic-business/elite troika is determined that populist politics must be put down. That's their collective motivation. They are now frightened (or increasingly nervous at least) that the international media have figured this out so fast. It's alarming..that's why the attacks (legal and otherwise) against Head and the others are being stepped up on foreign journalists.

No, you are saying that not me.

I said that if someone is a blatent idiot, is corrupt and the effect will be the same as flushing money down the toilet, should you give them all the money ? or hold some back and ask them to prove themselves, and then, when they fail, give the money to a better person who replaces him.

Politcal loyalty ???????

Ask yourself why people give to churches ? For a reward when they get to heaven ? Why people give money to monks ? for rewards of good luck ?

The whole structure of human life is payment of money to make you better than others, the more you give the more you get kind of total nonsense. Whats wrong with money for political loyalty then based on all the precedents that people CHOOSE TO IGNORE in life regarding RELIGION and many other "mind control systems", like politics as well.

In not so many words - you think that giving money as a reward for political loyalty is a right and just thing to do.

Well, I got a news for you - the money belongs to ALL people of Thailand, not just those who vote a certain way.

What is this nonsense "If someone does a bad job then should they not have funds held back ?" The money doesn't belong to the PM or the governor to hold it back, if the governor does a bad job it's governor's problem, not people's.

That is one way of looking at it, and describing as such to make them seem guilty as tarred by the PAD/Dark Influences.

Question would be, did they ? Do you have proof ?

Can you sustain the "withheld for personal gain" comment when asking if it was withheld to prevent it being spent incorrectly by a corrupt "old school" ?

Was there not a decision made not to make it "easy" for known corrupt governers ?

Do you not reward successful people ? If someone spent their budget wisely and generated employment and wealth, should they not be given more ? If someone does a bad job then should they not have funds held back ?

You see to portray Thaksin as "bad everything" but provincial governers (known to be highly corrupt in many places) as "good guys".

This is typical "media spin" of the PAD and thier ilk, they try to simplify things into black and white and anti-Thaksin, when in fact there are many shades of grey, and good and bad to both sides.

The simple fact of the matter is that, and the PAD and their ilk hate to acknowledge it, that the North and North East grew substantially in terms of developement during the TRT/PPP time.

The people there love Thaksin and the TRT/PPP as they did something for them, they developed the area, they cleaned considerably up the massive drugs problem left over from Democrat rule, they created wealth and jobs.

So going back to your statement of withholding for political reasons, do you have the proof ? or was it withheld for the reasons that the incumbent governer was a corrupt idiot and giving them the money would be akin to flushing it down the toilet ?

Many shades or grey, there is no black and white.

The statement "Thaksin has spread the wealth around" is not exactly correct.

He didn't comply with 1997 constitution demand that 35% of govt budget should be allocated to provincial governments, for example.

I don't know the numbers, but perhaps his "special fund" covered the shortfalls. The fund that was spent entirely at his discretion on anything he wanted without any public scrutiny. The fund has reached gigantic proportions under his government.

So there was a situation where budget that was constitutionally theirs became a special gift from Thaksin, a gift that was given to provincial governors in exchange for political loyalty. He bribed them with their own money and they loved him for that.

So much for their political maturity and Thaksin's "care".

Henry, I think you are missing the point by trying to swipe it all away in a single sentance. Yes there is corruption, there always is, all over the world, however, if we target just roads, the construction of them in the north and north east created jobs, created work in the home area's and therefore "spread some wealth" around. This is what the TRT did, not concentrating everything on Bangkok so the "small circle of Elite" there take everything, but spreading it around.

Even though the roads may have now fallen into disrepair, this is as much down to the Thai problem of never planning for maintenance as the initial construction.

Thai's do have problems when budget planning is done, and maintenance is often missed out of all projects as its a "later" thing.........so the roads maintenance is probably done on some tin pot budget of 10,000 baht, whereas construction is done with a massive multi billion baht budget. Some of that is down to the payouts yes, but its also the poor lack of forward planning that effects most things.

Back to the changes, I still see when I travel around new factories going up, I see new housing built everywhere, new airports that have been opened a few years, lots of new cars, lots of new small businesses.

You can see why TRT and then PPP was/is/still is, so popular. Their policy of spreading the wealth worked........its a policy that China did and was successful with, even though the top communist party leaders creamed loads of money off the top, the idealism of spreading the wealth outwards to bring the poor upwards worked well, an Elitist system of retaining all the wealth in a small area and under the influence of just a few is now seen by all to be wrong.

Indeed AT FIRST VIEW HAND VIEWING , but the new build secondary roads are an a deplorable state, many new factories are closed down. On my last holiday (3 months)I drove 12K in Isan and North so I know what I talking about.

I have friends who have an company who build that roads and they had to pay large sums of money to get the contract. Because of this its was impossible to deliver a good job..............

The last 2 Democrat governments were kicked out for corruption.

Thaksin was brought in with the TRT by the people to try to end the "small cricle" of absolute corruption, too few taking too much.

They set him up and got rid of him when he trod on too many toes.

Now its likely a return to the old ways.................did you expect anything else ? AV is not running the Democrat party, he is the puppet, and the strings are pulled by the old Elite.

Anyway associated with the PAD in any way should have no position in, or influence over, the government. This is massive mistake number 1, and as has been said, he is not the worst of the "new ministers"....................

Welcome back to the Thailand of 9 years ago..................

I think its all "media talk" - they will say they are going to do this and that, but actually they will do nothing, why should they ?

In the North and North East its easy to see (talk to people and you find out) they hate the Democrats. They were kicked out of office last time for corruption, they are seen as the party of the South only, they are seen as PAD supporters and they are seen as assisting in taking away the democratically elected government.

They have no chance of winning over the majority, they should know that too, so why should they even bother ? Which is why I think they will not, they will talk the talk but not walk the walk.

They will likely have only one mandate, that will be the imposition of the PAD demands for a non elected government, if not implement in full, then at least to start the changes such that peoples votes in future will have less impact on who is in government, and allowing more appointed positions and less elected positions.

From first hand viewing I can say that in the past 8 years the North and North East has grown considerably, new roads, new infrastructure, lots of new factories, lots of new jobs and lots of new wealth. This is why the people love the TRT/PPP and Thaksin, the old rubbish about vote buying is a total red herring, its been done by all parties for the last 4 decades.

The Democrats, being seen as part of the PAD, have no chance of changing anything in regards to their ability to get votes, and so, coming back to where we started, I cannot see them actually even bothering to try. Its far better for them to spoil the South and Bangkok, and shore up their support.