LevelHead

People say Red Shirts are bad. People had said Yellow shirts were bad. How can you tell who is who if they change shirts? Yellow shirts shut down the whole country, people died, guns and fire bombs were used, not just seen. Red shirts now have made Thailand look terrible and unsafe further hurting tourism and new business investments in Thailand. What is next?? Say Red Shirts get control of Government. Then Yellow Shirts will be on the streets. Then if Yellow shirts regain control of government, Red Shirts will again go back on the streets. All of this to gain control of the government for what? The good of the people? Or the good of the money backers of the yellow and red shirt protesters? This struggle will soon degenerate into out right civil war if people do not end this foolishness and have an election that everyone involved agree to honor the results.

That is the only solution.

Revoke the new CNS constitution the people did not want.

Reinstate the "peoples constitution" that the Army threw in the bin.

End all politicians bans.

Have an election and with all parties agreeing beforehand that the result will be honoured by all, including the Army.

TV say Blue Shirt are soldiers, and is fully equipped with weapons..?

I see this coming.

Personally, red shirt should just stop this and enjoy Songkran and allow this meeting to go on. This is bad for business.

If its true that some blues are solidiers then Annupong must start with immediate disciplinary action and also be on the TV apologising to the Thai people so this surely.

It would be an utter disgrace to the Army cheif to find his subordinates involved in such things, surely he would step down.

http://blogs.straitstimes.com/2009/4/11/flashpoint-pattaya

Link to the article about "blue shirt thugs"

Looks like the "Pro Government" thugs are really now putting Thailands reputation down the pan. Blue shirt thugs.

The government could not even provide basic security for Asean officials.

Abhisit and Demcrats step down. You are now failures in the eyes of the world, not in control of the country and its time to go.

New elections are needed to sort this mess out.

The "pro government blue thugs" "blue pro government thugs incite violence" story is now doing the world news rounds, along with the suspicion there are solidiers wearing blue shirts.

Annupong openly called for Somchai to step down when a couple of PAD protesters were hurt/killed.

He must also very quickly call for Abhisit to step down if any reds get killed.

If he fails to do so then well, what will everyone think.

If solidiers are confirmed to be wearing blue shirts then the Army chief must call for swift disciplinary action against them.

..don't kid yourself! I think it is now OK for the police and military to step in with VERY HEAVY HANDS!!!! To the reds: when you play with fire you will get burned....tum dii, die dii, tum chua, dii chua!!!!!

No, its never correct to go in with "heavy hands".

The Army chief is on record after the PAD/Police October session that "if anyone is injured then all the top brass are responsible".

If one Red gets killed then the government, Abhisit and Annupong must all step down based on what they said last year.

They have made their bed, and now they must be prepared to step down should anyone get killed by police/solidier action.

Woken up popped in.

Seems the army are giving solidiers blue shirts, well, at least it makes a change from the old yellow one so people are saying.

Blue shirt solidiers attacked innocent red shirt thai citizens appears to be some headlines now.

Get the media machine working they say.

Was Newin there with the blue shirts and military people? That will be handy video to use in future for some if its true.

Anway, its Friday night and time to party and have a great long weekend.

So enough of this politics rubbish and yellow and red.

Party time.................see you in a few days.

All Abhisit and the Democrats appear to have done so far is jump in bed with Newin and his ilk to gain power, go out and borrow loads of money, throw it away by giving out 2000B cheques, have scandal after scandal and basically stand by doing nothing whilst hundreds of thousands of Thai's lose their jobs. All the while appointing PAD people to powerful positions and advisory roles to the government.

The funny thing about the 2000 Baht cheques is that only government workers were eligible, who are not the ones that lost their jobs due to the PAD demonstrations last year.

No cheques for the tourism industry workers that lost their jobs.

No cheques for the people working in the factories that closed down.

No cheques for the farmers who lost and are still losing due lost export contracts.

But 2000 Baht shopping cheques for government workers, who already have a higher salary than most average Thais.

That's Abhisit.

That's bull, most of my wife's extended family have received the stimulus cheques and they all work regular jobs in factories around the country.

Complete crap from Rainman - The stimulus checks were given to all members of the Social Security Scheme (that includes government workers, aprox 1.2 million) making less than 15k a month, and most companies in Thailand are part of this scheme. Also, once a person is a member, they can continue to be, even after losing their job, when they receive unemployment benefits etc. The number was close to 10 million who qualified.

2000 baht each to stop 10 million demonstrating was it? Or was there some other reason?

So succesful was the stimulus package that the country continues down the pan, but at least for now the reds have been kept to just over 100,000 at peak levels in a single place.

So perhaps another round of 2000 baht cheques will need to be promised in June to stop more joining the reds in the months ahead?

The only responsible solution is to dissolve the house and call for new elections.

Why?

It seems to be the only sensible solution right now. How else can their be a government that can be accepted by all parties?

The current PM might be a good guy, but he seems to be under the army rather than above it.

The WHOLE PROBLEM comes from the coup in 2006.

And until the country is returned to "pre coup" then this will go on and on.

Dissolve the House.

Put the old "peoples constitution" back into effect.

Have an election where everyone can contest seats, no banned politicians.

Then things might get back to normal.

All Abhisit and the Democrats appear to have done so far is jump in bed with Newin and his ilk to gain power, go out and borrow loads of money, throw it away by giving out 2000B cheques, have scandal after scandal and basically stand by doing nothing whilst hundreds of thousands of Thai's lose their jobs. All the while appointing PAD people to powerful positions and advisory roles to the government.

The government is a shambles and is paralysed owing to the big money backers who got it into power.

Abhisit looks like a puppet on a string, and I am thinking that come the time he writes his memoirs in old age he will look back saying that the uncomfortable smile he had on his face was due to the fact he was always told what to do, and he regrets being used by others as a "fresh face" on a an old and ugly beast.

I think the Reds have done well for the moment.

Thailand is in the headlines on BBC, CNN and the questions over the military, PAD, Democrats is all over the news. This raises international awareness of the problems with the coup in 2006 and all events since the coup.

The PAD links with the government are well documented and will keep getting looked into.

All in all not a bad demo.

They can now have a party for week and get back to the next phases after Songkran.

They will have to keep a minimal amount of Reds at the main protest site, this will give the protest is "longevity" so later news reporters can refer to "on going demonstrations for months".

At this time lets not forget the poor farangs who were killed on their drive from Bangkok to Phuket to catch planes out of Thailand as the PAD shut the airport. The PAD shut it in full knowledge this would cause problems and it resulted in the death of innocents.

Funny how the Yellow shirt lovers ignore that little tit bit.

When willit end?

So long as someone pays daily money to protesters (doesn't matter wich color they are), it will never end. We had four construction workers. They told us yesterday that they will not come work for the next four days, because someone offered them over 1000 Baht per day to go for rallies. I don't know if this is true, but this is what they told us.

I had heard the Democrats/PAD were paying people not to protest. Yes, had heard they were giving people 2000 baht to go an have a slap up meal and get drunk with, provided they love the government and did not join the reds.

More is promised (good old carrot to keep them hanging on).

Not sure if this is true, as anyone else heard of the government paying people 2000 baht for their support ?

Its hilarious reading this forum sometimes.

When the previous government were "gentle" with the PAD - it was because they had no power, useless.

The Democrats are gentle and do nothing and - its cause they are clever and all part of the plan.

When the previous government stopped the treasonous act of blocking parliament the force was "over the top".

Now we see the excuses being posted already that - people will have had enough and action is needed.

Some people are yellow to the spine on here. Hilarious.

Back to the protests the Reds are following a clear strategy, and the Democrats have to handle with care. The people of the North and North East (the majority of the Thai population) support TRT, PPP, PTP but are not presently getting too involved in this. If the Democrats/Army start killing a few Isaan/Northern people, and that news is spun back to the North/North East then all hel_l might break loose and millions will descend on Bangkok for revenge.

The Reds know this, and they will keep pushing and pushing through demonstrations and give the Democrats/PAD some time to come to their senses and call a new election.

But as time goes by they will use the same methods as the PAD did.

Time is on the Reds side.

After Songkran its the rainy season.

After Sonkran many hundreds of thousands of people will be laid off for the wet season.

Many people will have nothing to do.......and looking for ways to earn some cash.

I do care about those 3.000 + people who died in his war on drugs, so on one side you have former PM who is mass murderer

well said

All drug dealers should be put to death. Many Thai's like Thaksin because he had the will and strength to do this to the scum.

Why does the UK not have a referendum on the death penalty ? Simply because the softy liberal human rights loud mouths know that the majority of the people want it, and would have it come back tomorrow if they could have a referendum.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/04/10...cs_30100143.php

Taxi drivers paralyse traffic around

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on April 10, 2009

Traffic blockades appear not to have been ordered by protest leadersAds by Google

Victory Monument and surrounding roads - Bangkok's traffic centre - was shut down by hundreds of anti-government taxis drivers, motorcyclists and 5,000 protesters as they stepped up the pressure on the Abhisit Vejjajajiva administration and on privy council President Prem Tinsulanond to resign.

The immediate effect was a paralysis of Bangkok's traffic as more red-shirt Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship (DAAD) protesters kept arriving in the evening and vowed to stay put until their goals were achieved.

The move appeared to have been spontaneous and without direct order from the DAAD leadership, suggesting the protest movement may have morphed into something more organic and multi-centred, making it more difficult for the government to deal with.

Pricha Jaibantad, 48, a taxi driver originally from Chiang Mai, said taxi drivers were communicating among themselves through intra-taxi communication channels and FM 107.5 taxi community radio. He said there was no obvious leader but the group was clear about its goals.

"We will shut more roads down," he said, adding that he and his peers would stay on until this government and Prem were ousted.

Asked if he was afraid of another military coup, a police crackdown or attack by the anti-Thaksin Shinawatra People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), he said no. "We're children of poor and grass-roots people, but we're not afraid."

By 5pm, protesters cheered as taxi radio broadcast Announcement No 2 from the DAAD leadership, that they would no longer recognise Abhisit as the legitimate prime minister of Thailand and that the protesters were urged to fight the government as if fighting "a group of outlawed bandits."

Two dozen taxis began the surprise move to block the Victory Monument shortly after 1pm and there were only 200 protesters by 2pm. But the number soon multiplied. Heavy rain poured down shortly after 6pm but failed to dampen the protest as hundreds marched and danced in the rain, singing and chanting as if it was some sort of carnival. Victory Monument is connected to four major roads and all were affected by the shutdown.

At nearby Sam Saen Delta, two dozen cabs were parked. Somboon Srisawang, a red-shirt protester said: "Let's paralyse Bangkok".

Onlookers mostly watched the protest in bewilderment and amusement - some were partial to it.

One woman on an elevated walkway, a beautician in her mid-thirties, was asked if she thought the protesters were hurting the economy and causing major traffic jams,replied:

"What about when those god-dam_n [PAD] took over the Government House and the aiports [last year]? Did they think of anybody else but themselves?" she said, adding that she's fed up with what she believes to be a double standard in Thai politics, as the PAD leaders are not in jail and whatever the PAD does is regarded as correct.

"Should we just accept that whatever they do is correct?"

Some protesters said the area would likely be the new protest centre as it was effective in bringing the government to its knees and larger and more convenient in accommodating protesters.

In the nearby Din Daeng expressway entrance, another group of taxi drivers combined forces with the so-called "educated red shirts", shutting down the expressway by the afternoon, saying they wanted to prevent the military or police from reaching Victory Monument. More were also marching near Hua Lampong train station in the evening as parts of Bangkok gradually became paralysed.

UDD issues 2nd announcement

By: BangkokPost.com

Published: 9/04/2009 at 05:58 PM The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) has issued its second announcement on Thursday, saying the group totally rejects the government with Democrat party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva as prime minister.

On the anti-government stage, UDD leader Veera Musikhapong announced that this was the time for the red-shirts to reiterate the group's intention after the government did not fulfill its ultimatum issued on Wednesday.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/14...nd-announcement

Its the reds that have no legitimacy. Abhisit is the current PM through legal means. The coalition party gathered enough seats for a majority. What else to say?

Nothing that happened since the 2006 coup has any real legitimacy, and this is the real problem.

The coup is the problem.

The manipulation of the country by the CNS and their cronies is the problem.

The country needs the old consitution back, and be returned to an election based on the old consitition, this is the only way in which legitimacy can be returned.

BUT NOTE THE MAIN AIM OF THE PAD WAS TO STOP CONSITUTIONAL CHANGE.

They are the ones who did not want the old constitution back, simply as those who instigated the coup would be tried for treason should the present consitition be thrown away and the old one re-established.

Therefore, let us return to pre 2006, and have an election under those terms, then legitamacy can be seen to be there again.

Good strategy threatening to use 20,000 taxi's to totally block Bangkok.

Leave the tourists alone so they can fly in and out and go to Phuket etc... but block and shut down central Bangkok.

Should force the governments hand if the capital is totally paralysed.

Foreign media will have a field day showing how incompetent and hated the present government are, and how new free and fair democratic elections should be held.

What?

By shutting down "central" Bangkok how will the tourists in central Bangkok get to the airport?

I agree in how paralyzing BKK is a good way to put pressure on the government. But the backlash is millions of bangkokians will soon start to hate the red. Remember BKK is not the reds home turf. Don't piss off the bangkokians.

Why not, the Yellow Bangkokians pissed off most of the Thai population, so why should the Democrat loving Bangkokians not now get their fair share of hassle and being pissed off.

Its about time Bangkok stopped being "all of Thailand" in the eyes of most people. There is a whole country of people out there.

Good strategy threatening to use 20,000 taxi's to totally block Bangkok.

Leave the tourists alone so they can fly in and out and go to Phuket etc... but block and shut down central Bangkok.

Should force the governments hand if the capital is totally paralysed.

Foreign media will have a field day showing how incompetent and hated the present government are, and how new free and fair democratic elections should be held.

Much of the other "charges" are all down to "spoken testimony" of people, that took two years to get hold of, for some reason. They are pretty flimsy and appear to some people to be totally "false allegations and testimony" which was the reason Thaksin fled as he said "I cannot get a fair trial".

Reality check time...

That's the beauty of thaivisa's search engine... lots of real facts readily available with a few clicks of a mouse.... such as the veritable avalanche of documented evidence of wrong-doing....

Wanna know why cases take so long? The sheer volume of evidence is a good place to start....

one case:

Thaksin stands to lose a fortune in 'unusual wealth'

Ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra might be exiled in London but he is about to pay a whopping price with his Bt76-billion fortune about to be seized in Bangkok.

Based on graft allegations, public prosecutors have mounted a sturdy case for the seizure of Thaksin's wealth. The prosecution writ is 124-pages long. The associated evidence required 180 boxes and needed to be transported to the court in a large lorry.

another case:

there certainly is a lot of it... eg. 40 boxes in the lottery case

The Assets Examination Committee yesterday filed corruption charges in the Supreme Court against ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra and former Cabinet ministers, in connection with the two and three digit lottery scandal.

The Nation / 2008-03-10

still another case:

and yet another case:

oops... sorry, forum software limits me to 4 quotes...

Allegations, rumours, hearsay...........

WHERE ARE THE CONVICTIONS ?????????? LOL

Anyone who staged a coup can stage lots of funny evidence. Those with the guns do what they want.

Funny how its all alleged, alleged, alleged and yet in the years following the coup they NEVER MANAGED TO CONVICT.

Just not enough hours in the day to make up false documentation, sorry, thats get down to all the hard work of this OH SO OBVIOUS AND BLATENT AND MASSIVE CORRUPTION that in 2 YEARS they managed to do nothing did they, the coup appointed interim government.

LOL

Funny old world.

So obvious that in 2 years from 2006 onwards they did.......................jack.

At this stage please note the only offence Thaksin is convicted of is his wife buying some land......if thats an offence. Nothing else has been charged with. The idiots and liars who quote "tax evasion" are idiots, the law of the land was adhered to, he broke no laws. Many tax loopholes exist in many countries and politicians and rich use them often, this may be morally wrong, but its not illegal.

Nothing else has been charged with.

That's just not true now is it? He has been charged with a number of other offences, only he is not here for the proceedings to go ahead.

How many warrants does he have out for his arrest?

Being "charged" and being "convicted" are two different things.

The one conviction they knew they could get, that of being his wife buying land, they went for first.

Much of the other "charges" are all down to "spoken testimony" of people, that took two years to get hold of, for some reason. They are pretty flimsy and appear to some people to be totally "false allegations and testimony" which was the reason Thaksin fled as he said "I cannot get a fair trial".

Thaksin knows that the people who conspired to make up false allegations against him, those who "did the dirty" and sold out things that are normally not told, those Elite who have for years run Thailand as their personal money making enterprise, those big Army generals with Billions of baht they should not have etc etc...... are more afraid of something else.

Thaksin knows that his life is now finished, his name tarnished.

However, he also knows that if he blows the whistle on all of those Elite who conspired to kick him out, he will "take them down, just as they took him down".

Ultimately this is why I like the reds cause, for the end result will be good for the Thai people. Thaksin is now fighting for true democracy, as this is the one thing all those fat greedy corrupt Elite do not want.

They threw stones in a glass house, and now Thaksin is making sure those stones break the glass, just as he had his glass broken.

Do not see this as the PAD / Democrats / Elite are trying to "spin" it as. They want people to think its just Thaksin wanting to get off all charges.

The real fight here is Thaksin now supporting "true Democracy" in Thailand, and the Bangkok Elite finally getting kicked into touch.

It might be revenge for Thaksin, but it really is the future and freedom for the Thai people thats now on the line.

and what is with the true allegations?

The 3000 dead?

The extreme corruption?

Thaksin is (part of) this greedy elite. You guys are sitting on the wrong horse.

Errr.... it is a proven fact that corruption was much less during the Thaksin era, than it was before it.

This is the reason the Elite got unhappy and wanted Thaksin out, he cut off many of their "easy money schemes" - like taking toll booth fee's and not giving receipts to drivers.

3000 dead, did Thaksin kill them ?

How many civilians are killed by US bombs or UK bombs ? Are their Presidents or Prime Ministers responsible ? Be careful what "parallels" you try to draw.

Please enlighten me and give me some proven facts. I am eager to learn about! Thanks

I was waiting for the "prove it" to be said.

I have been in Thailand over 2 decades, and believe me vote buying used to be rampant in the 1980's. The newspapers were filled with corruption scandals all the time. Swampy airport project had gone on for decades wasting billions, but was still a swamp.

Thaksin was elected to power under the TRT to "rid Thailand of corruption". The people wanted him as he was already rich, and did not need to take "too much more".

At this stage please note the only offence Thaksin is convicted of is his wife buying some land......if thats an offence. Nothing else has been charged with. The idiots and liars who quote "tax evasion" are idiots, the law of the land was adhered to, he broke no laws. Many tax loopholes exist in many countries and politicians and rich use them often, this may be morally wrong, but its not illegal.

When Thaksin was in power, roads got built, Swampy airport after a few decades was finally finished. We actually saw checks and balances like having Cadets sit at Tollway booths counting cars to prevent the "no receipt given to driver scam".

Now, whilst the Elite have done a good job painting Thaksin bad, the reason for this is that he upset them by preventing massive corruption.

I would say this to you, prove to me that corruption was not more before Thaksin........for I know it was.

Thaksin knows that the people who conspired to make up false allegations against him, those who "did the dirty" and sold out things that are normally not told, those Elite who have for years run Thailand as their personal money making enterprise, those big Army generals with Billions of baht they should not have etc etc...... are more afraid of something else.

Thaksin knows that his life is now finished, his name tarnished.

However, he also knows that if he blows the whistle on all of those Elite who conspired to kick him out, he will "take them down, just as they took him down".

Ultimately this is why I like the reds cause, for the end result will be good for the Thai people. Thaksin is now fighting for true democracy, as this is the one thing all those fat greedy corrupt Elite do not want.

They threw stones in a glass house, and now Thaksin is making sure those stones break the glass, just as he had his glass broken.

Do not see this as the PAD / Democrats / Elite are trying to "spin" it as. They want people to think its just Thaksin wanting to get off all charges.

The real fight here is Thaksin now supporting "true Democracy" in Thailand, and the Bangkok Elite finally getting kicked into touch.

It might be revenge for Thaksin, but it really is the future and freedom for the Thai people thats now on the line.

and what is with the true allegations?

The 3000 dead?

The extreme corruption?

Thaksin is (part of) this greedy elite. You guys are sitting on the wrong horse.

Errr.... it is a proven fact that corruption was much less during the Thaksin era, than it was before it.

This is the reason the Elite got unhappy and wanted Thaksin out, he cut off many of their "easy money schemes" - like taking toll booth fee's and not giving receipts to drivers.

3000 dead, did Thaksin kill them ?

How many civilians are killed by US bombs or UK bombs ? Are their Presidents or Prime Ministers responsible ? Be careful what "parallels" you try to draw.

2 injured when yellow-shirted woman crashes her car into protesters

A woman clad in yellow shirt crashed her Toyota Camry into the direction of a group of protesters in front of the Sisao Theves residence of Privy Council President Prem Tinsulanonda Thursday morning, injuring two persons.

Police said the woman sped her car from the First Infantry Division Intersection to the rally site in front of Prem's house at 7:20 am.

Terrified demonstrators ran for their life but the car hit a road sweeper and a protester.

The car quickly let the scene.

The incident caused the demonstrators to become furious and they spread out to hunt for woman.

A group of protesters thought the car had fled inside the Suan Amporn Garden and tried to break in into the compound to capture her but guards insisted the gate was closed and no vehicle had come inside.

Later on, their leaders announced that police had arrested the woman, prompting the protesters to return to the rally site.

The Nation

She will likely never be convicted, the current government was formed by, is filled with, and advised by the Yellows.

The current government appears to have no plans to seriously convict the PAD of all their crimes, shutting airports etc..

This women likely feels safe she is "unconvictable" if she wears and yellow shirt and does something like that.

Thaksin is perhaps the most self serving individual I've ever seen, from any walk of life. To invite people to bring their children to a protest, while he whisks away his own on fears of safety is hypocrisy of the worst kind.

I am glad you picked up on that. It pretty much says it all about the leadership of this "peoples" demonstration.

Leaving Taksin aside and leaving aside preconceived ideas and opinions; do posters think people are right to seek cahnge in their couintry. that is the real question

Definitely! This country needs change.

As far as timing goes, it is wrong.

As far as their leader goes, it is wrong, as already explained by jbowman in his other post. If you are going to have a revolution, have one with a leader who genuinly cares about the people (People like Che Guevara come to mind), not some self serving, corrupt cop, who has only used this country to line his pocket, while throwing a few crumbs to the poor, to keep them from revolting.

What a pathetic excuse of a human being, calling the masses to bring their children, to a potentially violent situation, while getting his family out of the country. As my kids would say Lllllloooooooser.

He has simply removed people who could be held hostage by the "elite" in order for them to force the reds to stop. Do you honestly think that these Yellow people would not stoop so low as to take some of the close family hostage and threaten them with harm and death.

<snip>

Thaksin knows that the people who conspired to make up false allegations against him, those who "did the dirty" and sold out things that are normally not told, those Elite who have for years run Thailand as their personal money making enterprise, those big Army generals with Billions of baht they should not have etc etc...... are more afraid of something else.

Thaksin knows that his life is now finished, his name tarnished.

However, he also knows that if he blows the whistle on all of those Elite who conspired to kick him out, he will "take them down, just as they took him down".

Ultimately this is why I like the reds cause, for the end result will be good for the Thai people. Thaksin is now fighting for true democracy, as this is the one thing all those fat greedy corrupt Elite do not want.

They threw stones in a glass house, and now Thaksin is making sure those stones break the glass, just as he had his glass broken.

Do not see this as the PAD / Democrats / Elite are trying to "spin" it as. They want people to think its just Thaksin wanting to get off all charges.

The real fight here is Thaksin now supporting "true Democracy" in Thailand, and the Bangkok Elite finally getting kicked into touch.

It might be revenge for Thaksin, but it really is the future and freedom for the Thai people thats now on the line.