drtreelove

Hi guys, I want to get some soil tested for the following: clay, silt, organic content, soluble sulfites, etc and don't know the Thai name of such a test(s). Also, would the universities around Chiang Rai be the place to go or to a government agency. I have the ASTM standard references, but to explain in Thai I am lost. Any help??

Mae La Luang University in Chiang Rai may have a soil science department that will do the testing for a fee. I know for a fact that Mae Jo University in Chiang Mai does it. They do a complete soil analysis with the components that you mention plus more. I haven't done any for a couple of years, but when I did they charged 500 baht and it takes 2 weeks. Mae Jo U, soil science building, 4th floor. You don't need Thai names, they will give you a report in English with the values of each category. But they don't give interpretation or recommendations unless you look up a soils professor on the 2nd floor and get his/her input.

I have a contact at Mae La Luang U, I will ask him about soils dept there.

The Thai govenrment Land Development Department does free soil testing, but it is minimal in components analysed and it takes 45 days; all in Thai with no interpretation or recommendations. See other threads/posts for more information.

Some perspective on location: My wife is in the real estate business in Chiang Mai area where rice land is being sold for 250,000 to 500,000 baht per rai and up. Closer to the city it is more like 1.2 million, But that is because the land is being bought for housing and industrial development, not for farming. (Inside the old city, no more rice because vacant land is 12m per rai.)

I'm not a rice farmer, but a few years ago I attended an organic rice farming fair in Yasothon (eastern issan), where there is an organic Hom Mali rice growing collective that is getting higher prices from the organic export market. www.greennet.org

Drtreelove,

Your thoughts on my problem please, we do use rice straw in the makua as a mulch and the cut banana leaves are left on the ground around the plant to help preserve moisture.

At the end of next month when the weather hots up, out come the ants and there friends, mealy bugs and aphids, and they really thrive in mulch, other than exspensive chemicals,a garlic oinion mix and thashing them out ouf the trees,what else could i try?

Thanks, Lickey..

I know what you mean, I have experienced the same problem with the mulch providing habitat for ants and other critters. I exercise some tolerance, because I know that the insect activity can be beneficial in breaking down the mulch and incorporating it into soil. Each issue that you mention can be delt with as a separate challenge when it becomes intolerable.

The big biting red ants that nest in the trees are horrible to have to deal with, but I don't think they are related much to the mulch. But I found Thai neighbors that love to harvest the nests to eat the larvae. I just ask and they go to work climbing the trees with a rollled up newspaper on fire to burn the ants out of their way as they climb and knock out the nest onto the ground. Other than that, the long mai-pai pole (mine has a saw blade attached) is effective to knock out the nest. Spray cannot get into the glued together leaf nest until it's on the ground and pulled apart. A trunk drench with permethrin (Chaindrite Stedfast 4) will limit the ants access to the tree and frustrate them, and if repeated weekly will offer some control.

The aphids and mealy bugs, I don't believe are directly related to the mulch, but the small black ants that farm the aphids and other ants that nest in the ground (including the nasty little red ankle-biters) will surely thrive with the mulch as cover. Control the aphids and mealy bugs as a separate issue, with whatever pest control measure that you find effective and affordable. Permethrin is a sure knock down, but also kills beneficials. Neem is a botanical that doesn't have much or the negative side except the cost. The ants cannot farm pests that aren't there.

To directly get to the ants, pull away the mulch and follow their trail to the hole in the ground. Spot spray/drench the hole with Chaindrite crack and crevice aerosol, or better yet avoid aerosols and mix your own, or use the chalk of death as featured in another thread on termites. This isn't the organic gardening thread is it? You see I'm not a purist. don

Edible dates from the date palm (Phoenix dactylifera) is an arid zone crop (dry deserts). They probably would not do well here long term in the monsoon climate. I have seen mature date palms transplanted into a moist air climate; they do okay for a couple of years and then the trees start to decline due to opportunistic fungus diseases.

Thanks for answering, I have 8 trees ( 6yo ) last year I had my first crop, see enclosed picture.

The trees are doing rather well, in Buriram province.

My question and only difficulty is with drying the fruit. They do mature during rainy season when it's very humid outside so natural drying is out of the question.

I dried some in the oven at low temperature, it was more or less OK but it's not a permanent solution..

The lowest temperature possible is still too high, it dries them too fast.

Looks like I have to make some smokehouse type gadget, any ideas more than welcome.

Regards!

That's good to know, that your date palms are doing well and producing. Where did you get the trees?

I grew up in the Arizona desert and have eaten a lot of dates, climbed and pruned the trees for years, but never had occasion to dry the fruit. I know that there are simple designs that I've seen in the past for build it yourself food dryers. Or order one: http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/Food_Dryer.html

Good info,

As mulch I'm using coco inner husks (not the hard out part), in some rural areas you can get these for free as they're often burnt. On top of this I throw cow manure, grass clippings and leaves. We now have a nice layer of 2 - 4 inches and I'd like to add composting worms. However I understand these worms can't live in soil, so I'm wondering how well this will work and if there's anything else to add.

Also, I know it's common practice not to have mulch during the wet season. Considering that the mulch is thick, I was wondering about planting straight into it. This would be above the soil level and provide good aeration. Seems a better idea than planting into heavy soil. Any thoughts?

Composting worms are specialized and thrive in a temperature and moisture controlled, organic waste container. (A Mae Jo University project near my home, big agricultural school in Chiang Mai, uses concrete water tank rings with a drain hole at the bottom.) They produce great material ("worm castings") for incorporation into growing soil. They are a different species with different requirements than common earthworms.

With the great muclh layer that you have created, if kept moist, earthworms will thrive and propogate and do their thing. Unless the soil base is somehow deficient or chemically compromised, they will appear without adding to the existing population. If you build the right conditions, they will come. Irrigate that mulch until the rains take over. Mid rainy season go out and dig anywhere and you should have a handful of earthworms.

The mulch only needs to be removed for the rainy season if you need to facilite the planting of a crop. Otherwise continue to allow it to decompose and become soil.

You can't plant just anything directly into a mulch layer, you will lose a large percent to birds and rodents or just to drying out, you need to get most seeds or starter plants into the soil. Depending on what you are planting, you could just clear away enough mulch to put your seed or plant into the ground by hand. Tractor work will probably require rototilling in the mulch first.

"what do you call green manure for rainy season ?"

Green manure is the growing of a cover crop that will later be plowed in or at least cut and left on the surface, for the purpose of adding organic matter to the soil.

The best choice of a cover/green manure crop is usually a legume, a bean, that supplies a good quantity of it's own nitrogen (so it doesn't take it from the soil) through the unique capability that legumes have, of nitrogen fixation from atmospheric nitrogen through root nodules that contain specialized nitrogen fixing bacteria. (Innoculation of the bacteria the first time brings the best results). The cover crop can be an non-commercial crop that is never intended for commercial harvest, only for on-site incorporation into the soil of green organic matter. Black beans, jack beans and other legumes are grown for this purpose. The plants are cut or plowed in before they go to seed, to get the most green material back into the soil.

In a more sophisticated crop rotation, with proper soil, climate, water availability and availability to market the crop, something like peanuts/groundnuts can be grown as your green manure crop. The peanuts are used or sold and the crop residue is left in the field and plowed into the soil, as the green manure source. So your green manure season adds to your profitability. This is not always practical, but is possible with good management.

Non-legumes can be used as green manure, but you must take into account the large use of available nitrogen that it will require to decompose and take away from availablility for the next crop rotation. Non-legumes usually require additional fertilization, animal or chemical. As soil organic matter content builds up and provides good soil fertility and nitrogen availablility, this is less of a problem and all crop residues can be used as green manure.

It is now recognized that in orchards, contrary to long standing common practices, the green manure should cut and left lay as a mulch and not be tilled in. The disturbance of the soil surface destroys a large percentage of the fine absorbing roots from the trees and limits uptake of water and nutrients. The mulch encourages absorbing root growth and protects the soil from drying out and protects the beneficial soil organisms and natural processes.

I first learned about organic gardening in the late 1960's and early 70's. Then the emphasis was on building soil fertility. Even the early organic farm certification programs had a requirement for 5% organic matter content. In fact that's where the term organic comes from. It was recognized that with good soil fertility, 5 to 10% organic matter content, the food produced tastes better and there is better yield. I tried it and it's true. And so are many other benefits.

Now the emphasis in organic gardening and farming is on not using chemical fertilizers and pesticides. This is good, but not enough without good soil fertility in my opinion and experience. Current certification standards don't even require a minimum soil organic matter content. Has something been lost?

Soil fertility comes from comprehensive soil management with composting and mulching for small scale operations; for larger scale farming, the use of cover crops/green manures/incorporation into the soil of crop residues is key.

One of my favorite quotes, from the excellent book Permaculture Home Garden by Linda Woodrow (Viking Penguin Books, Australia):

“ The cure for heavy clay soil is to add organic matter to breakup the clay and improve drainage. The cure for sandy, dry soil is to add organic matter to retain water. The cure for acid soil is to add organic matter, particularly bird manure, to bring the pH up and make more nutrients available. The cure for alkaline soil is to add organic matter to buffer it. The cure for hardpan is to add organic matter to feed earthworms.”

“Compost, mulch, animal manure and worm castings are the great cure-alls. You can build a garden on a concrete car park if you add enough of them. It is usually easier and safer just to add enough of them to correct any deficiency you might have. Just as it is better to feed a person a good, balanced, varied diet than to eat junk food and then worry about which vitamin pills to take, it is better to feed plants plenty of humus than to grow them in skeletal soil and worry about which supplements they need.”

Edible dates from the date palm (Phoenix dactylifera) is an arid zone crop (dry deserts). They probably would not do well here long term in the monsoon climate. I have seen mature date palms transplanted into a moist air climate; they do okay for a couple of years and then the trees start to decline due to opportunistic fungus diseases.

A lot of herbacide use can be avoided with proper spacing of plants and the use of mulch.

A month ago I mulched around my young fruit trees with a 6-8 inch layer of rice straw, including all the open soil space between the trees. I water the entire area, not just under the trees. There are a few weeds and grasses poking up through the mulch, but not much. Besides weed control, the mulch will allow water conservation during the impending hot season and allow extended root growth to beyond the driplines of the young plants. With mulch, the soil stays cool and moist and the earthworms thrive. When the rainy season starts, I'll pull any remaining mulch for the compost pile and seed with green manure.

When I moved into an existing farm with mature longan and mango orchards, there were no weeds in the areas of the orchards where the tree foliar canopies had grown together and completely shaded the soil. The only areas that there were weeds growing were the exposed soil areas where a few individual trees had died, and areas along the perimeter where morning and afternoon sun could get on the soil beneath the trees.

When I worked at a biodynamic/french intensive garden project in California many years ago, I learned that one of the best methods of weed control in a vegetable garden is to create rich enough soil fertility conditions to support mixed plantings spaced very close together. The variable heights of the plants and close spacing creates shaded soil that results in good weed control. Poor soil fertility does not support this kind of intensive planting. Open row planting in some cases is an invitation to weeds.

A book on organic gardening that I read many years ago made a statement that I never forgot: There are three ways to deal with weeds; one is to poison them, one is to pull them, the other is to change your attitude toward them. Some "weeds" can be beautiful and useful plants.

As for an organic gardening forum, why not just start it here as a thread. Has there been a thread on this forum in the past? I'm new. Don

"Regarding the toxicity of termite controls, I was under the impression that these were among the most residual of all chemicals, although this maybe just for those sprayed on soil."

Some of the pesticides that were used in the past for termite control, and probably still being used in many places, are very toxic and long lasting in the environment. Fortunately the research and trend in many places, including Thailand it seems, is toward "less toxic" or "least toxic" control measures. The chemicals that I mentioned, that I have recently seen being used here in Chiang Mai, do have a very long residual effect, I was told 5 years in the case of Fipronil. The pest control outfit that I watched working the other day and questioned about materials etc, was using Fenobucarb and was on a 3 year application schedule. But that residual time frame does not necessarily mean that exposure is available to people and pets, it is bound up in the soil and wood.

Some new generation pesticides that have been developed to be less toxic to mammals, are proving to be extremely harmful to birds and honey bees. Each chemical has it's own specific actions, limitations, and toxicity to the target pest and to non-target species, capacity to leach into the ground water, etc. It's a challenge to stay informed, but it pays to read up on what you use. Knowing how to find and read labels and material safety data sheets (MSDS) is helpful.

I have only just begun to look into this because of another thread, and my interest in landscape/farm pest control and least toxic materials and methods. I don't have direct experience with structural pest control.

The bottom line is that you will probably not be able to influence a Thai property owner to deviate from the recommendations from the pest control company, who is under the influence of the chemical supplier and who may be equipped only for a specific chemical application. And also, the most common chemical that I have seen used here for strucural termite control (Fenobucarb http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemic...?Rec_Id=PC36390) has its primary risk associated with exposure to the applicator and relatively little residual risk after the application. Fenobucarb is a carbamate; primary risk is as a cholinesterase inhibitor with repeated use by the applicator. (think Alzheimer's disease). It's a category II "warning" rated pesticide in the US; the middle category, not the highest level of mammalian toxicity. It is hel_l for birds and bees and aquatic life. But termite control is usually not a broadcast spray, being primarily ground and base structure applications.

Fenobucarb and another termite control used here, Fipronil (less toxic in some ways for mammals http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemic...?Rec_Id=PC35768) are usually applied as a soil drench and base structure spray. There may be others that I don't know about. I have not seen fumigation tenting, but that doesn't mean that it is not used. Some modern houses have pre-installed under-structure pipes and emitters installed during construction, for long term repeated applications of chemical solution. The pest control company hooks up their pump to the undergound pipe system and applies the Fenobucarb or Fipronil in this manner every three years.

Before you leave, just make arrangements for any fish, birds, chickens, other pets or farm animals to be out of range during the applications and until drying of the chemical; put away or cover kitchen utensils, pet dishes, bedding, toothbrushes, anything that will have later skin or internal exposure.

The latest, least-toxic termite control in the US now is "orange oil", but I have not seen it used here. Maybe a good farming, manufacuring and marketing opportunity for someone with some investment capital. There are also electronic termite killing methods that are primarily associated with wood framed houses. And an interesting detection method is with trained dogs. (Turn that chiken killer into a termite hound).

I hope other posters with more direct experience have more to add. don

euca; you're probably right about knitbone, I may have it turned around; sounds better anyway. I know of no poisonous properties in comfrey; I've used it quite a bit; came off my mt-bike last year and got busted up a little and used comfrey to help the healing; ate it, juiced it, infused it, decocted it, took capsules from the root powder, crushed the fresh leaves and made poltices. It does have a fuzzy, irritating leaf surface. I've noticed a numbing effect, but I thought that was from the vicodin.

The cut leaves will not propogate, composted or not, only pieces of the roots or the seeds.

Would this Green Cal be a decent substitute for bone meal?

No. It's very different.

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/how-t...s-bonemeal.aspx

http://www.gypsum.co.nz/pages/product/whyusegypsum.php

Primary Values:

Adds sulfate and calicum to the soil in balanced proportions that will not significantly increase the soil pH.

Recommended uses:

• Great for adding to soils in need of sulfur where a drop in pH is not desirable.
  
• Good to add to soils needing both sulfur and calcium.
  
• Ok to add to soils in need of calcium where an increase in pH is not desirable.
  
• Wonderful facilitator for removal of excessive levels of sodium or magnesium.
  

Best Practices:

• Use a soil test to determine if this gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) is the best amendment to use in your situation.
  
• Carefully follow the recommendations made on your laboratory test to achieve the desired results.
  
• Sulfate is water-soluble and as a consequence it will move through the soil very quickly in areas of high rainfall, under heavy irrigation practices, in sandy soils and in soils low in organic matter. Timing of application and other adjustments may need to be made too maximize value to the soil.
  
• Sulfur and Calicum Source. Most often used as a sulfur source because it has no liming value. It is important to work with recommendations of your agronomist to determine just how much gypsum is needed for your situation.
  
• Sodium/Magnesium Removal. Ask your agronomist to tell you how much gypsum to add, how deep to mix the gypsum, and how much good quality water you will need to apply to achieve the desired level of removal.
  

I've grown it in Chiang Mai, it grows really well here, probably grows well anywhere. My first plants were given to me by a friend, so never had to purchase, and I've not seen it for sale at the plant markets. I don't know the Thai name, I'm not sure if there is one; every Thai gardener/farmer that saw my plants had never seen it before and didn't know what it was.

I'll look up my friend and ask him where he got it. I've moved and neglected to take some comfrey with me, so don't have any to offer you. Once you have a plant it grows fast and you can propagate easily from divided plants/root cuttings.

I don't know about comparing it to fish emulsion fertilizer, but it's a great herb, compost material and animal feed. Chickens love it and it enriches their eggs, but you have to grow under wire so they can only pick at the leaves and not scratch the plants out of the ground. As an herb it is well known for accelerating the healing of broken bones and wounds; one common name for the herb is "bone-knit". You can make a poltice for skin applications, or make an infusion from the dried leaves and roots.

I don't know anything about the fungus but it may be aphids that the ants farm. Look at it with a magnifying glass and if you can see any movement, the powder will take care of them too. If you don't like the powder mess, you can use Baygon spray for them.

Gary A is probably on the right track; the "fungus" appearing substance, may be a wooly aphid, similar to wooly apple aphids that I am more familiar with in the US. It is very common for ants to "farm" an aphid population, moving them around to good feeding grounds, fighting off natural predators like lady beetles or lacewings, and harvesting the sweet honeydew that the aphids produce. The ants aren't doing direct damage, but by protecting the aphids they are indirectly responsible for the damage that a large population of the sucking insects can do.

Controlling the ants like you are doing will somewhat control the aphid infestation, but controlling the aphids will control both the pest and the nuisance of the ants. Aphids are usually easy to control, they can sometimes be hosed off to reduce the population, small areas can be wiped off with a cloth or gloved hand. Larger infestations can be controlled with the pesticides that have been mentioned, or less toxic alternatives. Insecticidal soap, or botanicals like neem oil, lemongrass are possibilities. Least toxic pesticide for the ants may be permethrin products like Chaindrite Stedfast 4.

Another way you can eliminate stumps , when the tree is cut off , bore a large hole deep into the stunp and fill it with salt-peter , plug the hole , after a couple of months set fire to the salt-peter . This is best done at the start of the cold season as the sap will retreat quicker , taking the salt-peter with it .

Have you actually used this salt peter stump burn or seen it used successfully to completely burn out the entire wood mass of the root crown?

I ask because in 40 years of tree and landscape work I have heard many stories of drilling and burning stumps, and seen stumps burning for days or weeks at a time, but never have seen or heard a success story.

But hey, this old dog is willing to learn new tricks. Until then, give me a big stump grinder and its done in a few minutes.

OK, I just noticed that there have been several other threads on neem in this forum, with many good tips and links. Check it out!

OK I did a search and came up with zilch. Anyone know what's the Thai name and pronunciation for NEEM OIL???

TIA

Sadao. The active ingredient is azadirachtin. The tree it comes from traditionally, I believe, is Sadao India, Azadirachta indica. But there is another sadao in Thailand, I think it is called sadao baan, Azadirachta siamensis. They are beautiful trees, with an amazing deep green color of the foliage.

M.M.P.N.D. Sorting Azadirachta names

www.grad.cmu.ac.th/abstract/1998/eco/abstract/eco980418.html

Any forum members growing sadao and/or producing neem oil pesticide? Or know more about culture and production? I'd love to know more from someone with experience. don

Foreverford, you are absolutely right, I neglected to mention a top dressing after the planting. All the points in your posts and your goodwill are well taken; should get him off to a good start.

I'm not an experienced farmer in Thailand, so I don't know how to answer your question. But I am an experienced at tree removal and some tree crops. Foreverford has some good observations; but I want to offer an alternative to the very intensive and expensive operation that he has proposed.

Eucs will resprout after they are cut; so one option is to grow Eucs again; harvest at the beginning of rainy season (so the stumps will get water and resprout readily) and sell off what you have, leave the stumps in the ground, fertilize and let them grow up again. The coppice sprouts will grow very fast with an existing root system, thin them in a year or two and sell the stems that you thin, leave one stem per stump to mature for another harvest in a few years.

If you don't want to cultivate Eucs again, then poison the stumps immediately after cutting. Leaving the dead stumps in the ground and planting around them, is far less expensive that attempting stump removal. But that depends on what you plan to plant. If the new crop needs tractor work or pretty rows, and you have the budget for it, then of course this is not practical.

Stump removal can be done by stump grinder; although I haven't seen one in Thailand. Or grubbed out with a back hoe or excavator; but then you have to budget to dispose of the stumps and backfill the holes.

Stump killer poison formula: use the systemic herbacide - Round Up by Monsanto or a generic equivalent. Mix it with water to achieve about 25% glyphosate, the active ingredient. For instance if you buy a glyphosate product that says it has 48% active ingredient, mix that with equal parts of water. The grass killer formulation is too dilute and won't be effective as a stump killer. Use a small hand pump sprayer (designated forever for herbacide) - 3 to 8 liters or a 15 to 20 liter backpack, depending on how many stumps you have to spray. As each final cut is made, thoroughly spray this solution immediately on the exposed surface of the cut stump. It will be sucked in and translocated into the root system, effectively killing it and preventing the stump from resprouting. If you wait until the crew is gone or wait until the next day it is too late and you will not get a good kill. Spray it as soon as the saw completes the cut if possible.

Caution: glyphosate will translocate through root grafts to trees of the same species. So if you have nearby Eucs that you don't want to kill, this method is not good for this location. Believe me I have learned this the hard way. Trees of another species will not be affected. And current or future plantings will not be affected as the herbacide is not sprayed onto or leached into the soil, it specifically remains in the target stump and root system.

Here I am giving advise on how to kill trees; but ask me how to grow them or save them and I get really excited. Don

I have a nice lawn of Ya Nippon (the so-called Japanese grass) in rural Chiang Mai, and at a former home here I grew Ya Malaysia (the broadleaf greass that you mentioned) (it does better in shade). I have mixed feelings about lawns, because they have their downside on environmental impact, but I have a family and pets and they love the lawn in the front yard.

Preparation is everything, and then watering and fertilization. Don't rule out fungal disease and pest problems if your lawn fails repeatedly after you have done everything else right.

Email me and tell me more about where you are located and what the site conditions are and what kind of base soil you have, new mooban development clay fill, or rice land or what. Did you add organic matter (compost) to the base soil, or only sand? Some pics would help. I can maybe help diagnose your problems and help walk you through a rejuvenation.

Preparation should include adding composted organic matter. Raw organic matter, rice hulls or other will rob the grass of nitrogen to decompose the organic matter. I prefer to make my own compost, but the best commercially available compost that I have found here is the finely ground and fully composted Maw Din from CP. It is expensive (150 bt/ 25 kilo sack), but if you have the budget it will help your lawn get off to a good start. Spread at least an inch or two thickness of compost, over the area to be planted before you rototill. If you don't have access to a rototiller, just dig it in thoroughly and water settle the soil for a week or two. Watch for weed seeds to sprout and pull them as they come up.

With your lawn bed prepared and graded for drainage and appearance the way you want, and raked smooth, lay out the freshly acquired sod. Sod here usually comes with little or no soil, so it will dry out very fast. You must install and water right away. Commercial landscapers water the installed sod and roll it with a water filled roller to press the roots down into the wet soil beneath and even out the surface.

Keep it muddy wet for a day or two, then back off and water twice daily to establish. Better yet, plant at the beginning of the rainy season, which is also the spring/summer growing season, and only water when it doesn't rain that day.

Allow the grass to get growing a little before you mow or fertilize. If you are mowing with a lawn mower, set the wheel height adjustments to mow high, 2 - 3 inches, don't scalp the grass, mow often enough that you only have to take off 1/4 to 1/3 of the blade height. Keep the mower blade sharp.

Fertilize every 6 weeks. Lawns use a lot of nitrogen, and nitrogen leaches with watering and rains. What to use is a big question. You can base initial fertilization on soil analysis, but most people just use a complete NPK fertilizer. heavier on the nitrogen side. 46:0:0 is urea; it's the cheapest nitrogen but it will burn the hel_l out of your grass if applied too heavily or not watered in well. Ammonium sulphate is good lawn nitrogen, 26?:0:0, but will also burn. These are cheaper than say 15:15:15. Alternate for cost effectiveness. Organic fertilizers, like finely ground manure is better than chemicals if you have it available.

I could go on and on, but there are some points to start with. don

When we moved onto a farm, my 3 year old dog started killing chickens of our neighbors that wandered into our orchards. I called a dog trainer and got this advise which worked like a charm.

Put the dog on a log leash with a choke collar. Walk him out around the free range chickens; when he starts to chase, jerk him back sharp and hard and strong and shout a command, No or Stop. You think that you will break his neck, or choke him out, but the dog trainer assured me that I would not seriously hurt the dog with this method.

It only took a few days, a couple of times a day to cure him. After that, I would see him getting agitated when a chicken came into view, and he would start to chase, but all I had to do was use the command and he would stop, even without the leash. After awhile he pretty much lost interest.

The only thing that really pissed me off is that he didn't bring the chickens to me for dinner. He enjoyed the chase, but left the dead or wounded chicken where the neighbor could find it, so I had to pay up 80 baht and didn't even get to make gaeng keow wan gai. (I didn't have to pay, but I was trying to be a good neighbor and I didn't want them to kill my dog).

I don't know about your area or about current availability, but in Chiang Mai I got free jack-bean seeds from the 'Land Development Office' (about 10k north of the SuperHwy on the Mae Rim (107) hwy, on the west (Doi Pui) side between the hospital and the (121) ring road).

At that time they had black beans, sesbania and others too. We didn't need a 'tabien baan', only my wife's ID, filled out a form with address and amount of rai. They calculated coverage rates and based the allotment on that; we pulled around back with the pickup and they loaded us up with the appropriate number of sacks of seed. I was only seeding about 4 rai, so I don't know what their upper limit is.

The land development office also does free soil analysis. The only problem is that it takes 45 days (sent to Lampang) and is a very basic NPK report with no interpretation or recommendations. I get better, more complete, 2 week soil analysis reports from Mae Jo University soil science department for 500 baht. And they have a soil science professor available to interpret and make recommendations for amendments if needed.

But you don't need a soil analysis to 'green manure'. don

Lickey, What's a lathe coolant oil and how do you figure it's a systemic insecticide? I've never heard of that one, please tell more.

Grease as a trunk band, like the popular sticky stuff called 'Tanglefoot', may work, but I would be afraid to use straight petroleum grease on thin barked trees for fear of the grease saturating and harming the inner bark and live tissues.

An organic farming/permaculture thread; yes, I'd be very interested. don