kenai

It is a morbid topic, but maybe talking about it can help someone stay alive by being extra extra careful on the roads here.

I saw an ugly wreck in late March involving an 18 wheeler whose driver lost control and the ability to stop as he descended Khun Tan hill near Lampang. He scraped the median for several km before busting through and into oncoming traffic. Ran over a song-taew and a motorcycle before flipping over. Left burning chunks of rubber, metal and flesh strewn for hundreds of meters.

I was always bothered prior to this with how fast people drove down that hill. There definitely is a lack of understanding by drivers regarding the relationship between mass, speed and momentum as well as respect for the safety of themselves and others.

I'm often amazed that people can be calm and friendly in person can drive the way they do. Also surprised the country has buildings that can stand and planes that fly and many other technical and modern advances ...but when it comes to driving ....... .

You should grow a pair of balls and stand up to the father. He stole 1.5m baht from you. It was supposed to be returned, but it wasn't. Just because the father talks himself up alot and has a 12m baht home does not mean that he is that well off. For all you know the house was passed down or he bought it for a much smaller amount in the past. What is his form of business?.. The writing on the wall is clear, he does not think much of you at all. Maybe he is saving the money incase you want to leave his daughter and has no intention of spending it on himself, but unless you want to remain in his shadow like a little kid, you have to confront him about the money. Stop being a p****y!

Yes, I would like to confront him about the issue. My wife says that he will be offended if I do and will thus cause major problem with my relationship with her family. From what I understand, the parent in a Thai family cannot be disagreed with. If he loses face, he will request that I no longer visit the family, and will request that I leave his daughter. It sounds strange to me, but that is what I understand about the culture.

His actions remind me of poor people from the country I am from. The poor people always talk about money, try to show off by buying materialistic items such as jewelry, cars, etc even though they may not be able to afford it, and they are sneaky about what they talk about (always trying to hide something). Since the family is more upper-middle status, I thought it would be comparable to my thoughts of an upper-middle class family. This is where I went wrong.

I informed my wife before we got married that expenses are shared by both sides during a wedding. The groom buys the ring, the brides family pays for the reception. She said this is Thailand and the groom pays for everything. I disagreed. She said don't worry about the costs because her family will help us out and things will balance.

travellife is this allot of money for you? For me I could not even scrape together this much for show..

If its not that much, you made a mistake but it is too late.

If it is allot of money to you your wife has a masters degree and some earning potential, why not move and work on getting her a good paying job? As for not being able to move that is not her fathers call anymore..

I dont think confronting the father will solve anything, it would only make things worse.

If you don't mind sharing how old are you, the reason I ask is there seems to be more going on.. perhaps the family is controlling you due to youth or age?

I am all for understanding and respecting cultures but there is also your culture that needs to be understood and respected as well.

You apparently married into a "high society" family. From my own experience I have not been impressed by many of the upper-class I have met here.

good luck.

If the fights are a WBC sanctioned event then they should have control and influence over any practice that goes against their policy..? It is letters to influential people like this one that can help to slowly bring change. It is worth a shot, I don't see any change coming from within. - Thanks PG !

You should realize that the sin-sod is far more important to her and her family then it is to you.

I'm sorry to have a downer on you 'Kenai' as you sound a nice bloke, but if it's "more important to her and her family than it is to you" then let her pay it. Love is a 2 way thing. But love really doesn't come into it in Thailand it the ability to 'look after', that's the most important thing. Love usually comes later in my opinion.

My wife actually did pay, she worked and saved for the wedding just as much as I did. But I do understand your point. And part of me agrees, just as I feel if they want an engagement ring worth thousands they can waste their own money on it. Luckily my wife is not the gold or diamond type.

As far as love not coming into it in Thailand I see your point. Perhaps in your culture money and success of the groom matter much less. Many Thai come from a very poor background, when you are very poor money does mean allot.

Families love their children very much they want their daughters to be taken care of, they also often need their children to take care of them. It isn't surprising they want a nice loving son-in-law that can and is "willing" to help take care of them. To me the sin-sod is a way for them to measure the groom. It is also a good way for the groom to gauge the brides family and learn about their intentions...

You should realize that the sin-sod is far more important to her and her family then it is to you.

It is for show no doubt but it is also pride for the daughter to have a husband that can afford X amount of money, a sign she will be taken care of. It may also be pride for the family to be able to give the dowry back.

I also struggled with sin sod a bit. My wife and I have a limited income. We ended up using a check along with a large wad of bills with a thousand baht on top for show. I didn't want a large amount of money actually at the wedding where it could be stolen. We gave her mother a few thousand dollars cant remember the exact amount, she gave it back as planned, I insisted on returning it for her to keep. We also send her money each month to help with food etc. If you are not prepared to help take care of your fiances parents now or in the future, I would say you need to seriously consider what you are doing. In the end this is far more important than sin-sod.

I know guys that have spent thousands on a diamond engagement ring. Strange, I never hear people say that anyone is buying the bride with the diamond.. to me that is a waste. The dowry even if kept is money better spent.

The amount should depend on what you can afford no more, and if the family expects or wants more you need to talk them down or consider what their intentions are.

Also just because you can afford a million doesn't mean you should give a million. It is for show and tell.. the whole village is going to know and if you throw money around you are looking for problems..I think. good luck

All I can say is that I pay about 200 baht for the Duke's small pizza with mushrooms and olives and pepperoni and even though it is delish, I can barely finish it.

I pay over 300 baht for a medium Pizza Company pan pizza with pepperoni and mushrooms which is also good, but it is much smaller than the Duke's "small" pizza and I am still slightly hungry afterwards.

A large Duke's pizza with 3 items is a little over 500 baht, but it is so huge that 3 big eaters can share it without ordering anything else except beer. We do it fairly often.

I'm sorry, but, I cannot explain why we have such different perceptions about the size.

I have a membership card from Pizza Company. I think it cost a few hundred baht, last time I was there it was still available. With the card I buy one get one free.

It does require a pizza purchase of 250 baht or more and is carry-out only.

So I normally get 2 mediums for about 300 baht. For me it ends up being 3 meals. I don't mind reheating or eating cold pizza.

I have not yet tried The Dukes but I will. Pizza Company is good enough to satisfy my cravings, actually I like the thin crust double peperoni the best..

Great documentary.

Best of luck to all of them. They all seem like good people, sure the dad has issues but he would not tell you any different. The wife was forward and honest and she is doing well for her family. Perhaps by making the documentary he was able to answer some questions and come to peace with his old man.

I agree the same applies here as anywhere.

In the US there is I believe about a 50% success rate on marriages. I'm sure you would find Thai/farang is lower due to added challenges. Couples are are often mismatched. There are some people who will likely never find a match because there own thoughts and behaviors get in the way of a healthy relationship. Add on the challenge of economical, cultural and language differences, and it is not surprising to see why there are many failed Thai/farang relationships.

I could not be happier with my wife and our relationship and I'm sure she feels the same. We share the same values and enjoy many of the same activities.

Honestly we have not had a bad day in over 4 years. I completley trust her and she trusts me.

We don't have a relationship where I give her X amount of money each month. We have joint accounts, our cars are in both names etc..we plan and work towards our goals together. We are fairly close in age. She speaks very good english, I am very slowly learning Thai. We share about the same education and intelligence level. And we have both spent time and effort learning the differences between our cultures. If a problem does occur it is most likely from language and culture differences and can easily be addressed.

That is us.. There are many other good relationships out there.

I know a couple that when they met she could not speak a word of english and he, very little thai. They have been happily together many many years. He now speaks very good thai, and her english is fair. It shows they both put effort into it, many of the doomed relationships have lazy/spoiled participants. And are likely failed from the beginning.

There is certainly nothing christian about continually knocking a group of people because you may disagree with their employment choice.....

Quite frankly I doubt they give a thought to what you pray for or how you are employed.........

Just let them make the best of their lives eh......have some of you people nothing better to do than deride people who are not awarded the free choice of response to your insipid comments......

Cowardly and uncharitable...certainly not condoned by christians or Bhuddist

Exactly. Those in difficult situations are the ones whom can use faith and prayer in any belief.

The bar girls would be praying for anything anyone else in the country or world prays for. Why should it be amusing?

They are not saying one thing and doing another so I dont find it hypocritical at all.

Also these women are more often then not sending money to their family and parents. By doing so achieving merit per their belief. The fact that they sell their bodies is simply their current destiny and situation.

Women are often seen as on a lower status as men and the fact that their job is serving men could bring them merit and help them to be reborn maybe as a man the next time around.

Im a tourist for the most part, i would make the country safer if I could do one thing.

The most dangerous thing in Thailand is by far the driving. How hard would it be to educate students in school on basic driving knowledge and safety? This should be done in the schools at a young age. They could actually enforce laws and require a driving test to be taken not bought.

Really driving is my only gripe about living here. I appreciate the strange and annoying things as just being Thailand and enjoy it for being different.

Cant seem to get comfortable with close calls and many senseless deaths I have seen on the roads here though. Basically people drive like they are driving scooters regardless of the size of the vehicle they are in. With little to no regard for the safety of others...

You can google the words; office, chiang mai, plus (theofficeplus).

I have never used this business, but it may be an option. My wife is friends and an old co-worker of the owners father.

good luck -

Why do some people get to decide which barbaric practices are acceptable?

Is it OK to watch horse racing despite the fact that most horses will be slaughtered for food after their racing careers are over?

Most greyhounds are slaughtered and dumped when their careers are over.

I've watched pigs squeal while being strangled to death before they were butchered.

It's legal to sell and serve dog meat in most of the US as long as it's labeled properly.

Humans are still barbarians. Capital punishment is legal in many countries. Torture is sponsored by government and accepted by the citizens.

Someone referred to the KKK in the past tense. It's still very much alive.

There are still 30 wars going on around the world today. Genocide still happens with regularity.

I've seen legal cock fighting in both Thailand and the US. (It is/was legal in Puerto Rico, a US territory).

As others have previously pointed out, those fighting cocks are treated very well. Most of the people of Darfur, Myanmar, etc live a more miserable life.

To those of you who are condemning as a barbarian anyone who condones cock fighting: What have you done to change any of the above practices?

Excellent points el jefe.

We had chickens on the farm I was raised on and every few months a few would end up on the chopping block and lose their heads. Those chickens still had a far better life then 99.9% of the chickens on earth. As do most fighting cocks. Im not positive but I believe they don't even fight until they are 2 years old? and until then are well cared for.

Most meat chickens in the west live about 2 or 3 months. If you can call the conditions they are raised as living. Laying chickens have it no better.

For those who are against the tradition of cock-fighting. I applaud your tender heart, but with the many problems facing people and children around the world I would hope you can find a better cause to get behind.

Anyone calling waikhru a sadist and barbarian is a complete hypocrite if they are eating any poultry. If you are a complete vegetarian I respect and appreciate your opinion.

If you are concerned about the welfare of chickens I say concern yourselves with the living conditions of the 23 million killed each day in the USA ..thats 260 per second.... or the 43 billion slaughtered annually worldwide.

We were there a few days ago. My wife and I shared a burger and a chili-dog, we thought they were both very good for Thailand. Also got an order of fries and they were excellent and would have compared well to the ones I like in the states. Next time I will get the burger well-done, just my preference. The beef tasted better then most to me, and overall the meal didn't taste greasy. Buns were both large and were neither to soft or to hard. Veggies toppings were plentiful and fresh.

Our bill came to around 250, we didn't get any ice-cream (next time).

We both thought it was a good burger-lunch, and hope they will get the business needed to stay around. We will be back again.

Price for Thai to sit ringside: 2000 baht

Price for Farang to sit ringside: 2000 baht

Price for cheap seat for Thai : 250 baht

Price for cheap seat for farang: Not Available

Agreed?

---

That is really not double pricing. You are paying the same amount as a Thai you just have limited options.

So there is no 10x markup, there is no markup whatsoever.

Well from my experience in March - I completely disagree. We paid 1000, the seat we got were by far the worst in the house. There was no option to move no option for a refund. Until we made it very clear we were not pleased.

( we were behind a heavy gauge fence. The Thai who had paid less were sitting below us - closer to the ring and unobstructed.

Im just repeating myself....

If you think its a fair way, go there. I think its separation by race (aka racism) and I will not be back.

Well I was there in late March. Their was only 2 options as a farang. My Thai wife was with and she paid the Thai rate and communicated well to know what the options were. There is nothing on the outside that states that the 1000 baht seats are obstructed but they certainly are.

I'm not sure what the Thai price my wife paid was, I just know it was far less.

The part that really made us feel burned was the seats were behind a tightly woven heavy gauge fence.

We were lucky to end up with ringside for half-price but I felt sorry for the rest of the farang that had went the 1000 baht route.

"Muay thai contests are held on every Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays, and Sundays. The fights usually start around 6.30 p.m. Ticket prices range from 500 (third class) to 2,000 (ring-side) Baht"

so its 2000 baht for which seats for farang? how much are ring side seats?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajadamnern_Boxing_Stadium

Have you been there Mr. Gotti?

I have and I will never go there again.

We were there in March. Having never been there my brother and I paid 1000 each for the cheaper option. It was either 1000 for farang class or 2000 for ring side.

We entered the farang doors and found ourselves in the upper deck. The real disappointment was that we were behind a heavy gauge cage that would make viewing the fights very difficult. I was pissed. We had paid I believe 10 times more for these seats than the Thai had for better unobstructed seats below us.

The fights had not started and we attempted to get our money back to leave. They would not give us any refund. So with far more argument and emotion then I would normally shown here we were allowed into the ringside seats.

To me its one thing to charge more for farang, but to charge far more for FAR WORSE seats is RACISM. It was like they were saying the white folk can go sit up there behind the cage... and pay 10 times more....

The fights were amateur and although not boring certainly not worth even 1000 for ringside. Not many people there either. Not a single KO not even sure if we saw a knock-down.

I would recomend Kawila stadium in Chiang Mai. 600 for ringside - you pay more then Thai but you get better seats then those paying less. Also the fight we have seen there were better. We saw 3 KOs the last time we were there. They also allow video (BKK does not).

Thanks for the reminder. Don't sweat it its really a pretty small loss.

I'm sure it gets under your skin that they got away, but this is a high risk occupation they are involved in and eventually things will not go their way. It was smart to get off when you did, I agree its not worth risking the possible outcomes over small money. Who knows what there next plan was.

discussing cock fighting and gladiators in the same sentence is foolish.

as for empathy and all feelings in general,you will get more love in my village then any city.

we do not have rapes and murders and all the crimes your peace loving empathetic more culturally and morally advanced people have.

My point is that a "few centuries ago people watched and thoroughly enjoyed gladiators". Nowadays it is considered barbaric, sadistic and unbelievable that people could have ever thought it was 'entertainment'.

I have no doubt that in a century or so people will think the same way about bull fighting, fox hunting, cock fighting etc.

Somehow I suspect you will find that there are v few "rapes and murders and all the crimes" in villages in any country compared to cities.

This does not mean they have an advanced moral acuity, unless you think that 'rednecks' from any country have a moral insight the rest of society lack.

IMO, it is more peaceful in 'redneck' territory because a strict 'moral code' is enforced in that society - break it, and you will be shunned, if not worse. The 'moral code' enforced is many people's opinion, primitive and embarrassing. The KKK thrived in villages but (I believe) was far less prevalent in cities.

But that is just my opinion, my original point about barbarity that used to be considered acceptable but is now abhored is fact. It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to believe that future generations will feel the same way about blood sports.

Cock fighting is a national past time in many countries much like hockey, boxing and football is in other countries... should these sports be outlawed?

How about horse/dog racing?

It is a part of the culture, and to me I can appreciate it for being (their) tradition. Maybe in a hundred years they will all be outlawed and people will all sit at home in clean white shirts and have polite conversations with tea for entertainment... but I have my doubts.

Who knows if society will exist at all as you or I imagine it - I give even odds. With global warming, threat of disease, and the challenges the world faces I wouldn't hold my breath for the world to keep "progressing". Two or three hundred years of "enlightenment" is but a brief moment in the history of humans.

I might have this completely wrong here but I seem to remember from when I used to live in the UK that even members of the medical profession were warned that if they assisted at an accident when they were off duty (and therefore not covered by industrial insurance) then they were liable if the patient sued for any reason. For instance anyone with a neck injury shouldnt be moved until a collar is put in place, if this is done and the person is left paralised then..........

As for here in Thailand the advice is correct....never stop or its your fault as soon as they see its a ferang.

HL

Very sad but true,and this is worldwide.If you are not 100% sure of what you"re doing,better don't move a injured person,you can be sued and get into troubles for helping a stranger.About Thailand,the obviously"stupid farang" often ends to be blamed for other people's fault.When i ride my bike,i'm extremely careful even if i have to ride for a 100 mt.

I disagree that this is true world wide. The US has Good Samaritan laws on the books they do vary from state to state but the idea is to protect those trying to help those that are injured.

There are also several states that have Duty to Act laws on the books - those laws could be used against a person not assisting someone in need.

This is an interesting topic and responses.

There's no point, ThNiner... these cases of yellow shirt attacks of which he speaks have all been "finalized" beyond any doubt, eg. the blue truck, the drunken Red demonstrator that died, etc.

That no one has even been charged, let alone convicted, let alone connected to the yellow shirts is besides his point.

Im interested in what "fianlized" means?

How can a lack of justice be besides his point?

Citizens can be violent, take over an airport.. etc as long as they are on the side of the elite - and those in power? - Thats all good with you?

for those interested in the truck video it can be found on youtube easily. search: ( PAD red yellow shirt police ) ----- I believe.

Correction, that was BEFORE the Asean attack and Songkran fiasco. I can assure you that in current situation, Madame Clinton will be much more sympathetic with PM Abhisit than scoundrel Thaksin. Things changed RADICALLY after that. It is now clear Thaksin is FINISHED Clinton did not want to signal any kind of support in such a foggy situation and risk picking the losing side (a common American mistake). It is much less foggy now. That is also just a commentary and theory, not anything Clinton said.

Jingthing, you certainly do amuse me, and I admire your determination.

If you are serious.

The events in April, if they did anything, they showed the world how weak and frail and divided this country is. Nothing has magically changed or been cured.

April did nothing to aid Thailand and US relations whatsoever.

This is an obvious question but despite 12 pages of posts, I am not aware of anyone directly asking it BUT:

WHY if there was a bad smell in the room, so bad according to the boy friend that Miss St.Ong "had to cover her head with the sheet" did the couple AGREE to continue to take the room?

It was only a stupid cheap guest house. There's plenty in Phi Phi....why not change the room or the guest house? They had been traveling for some time, and old enough to know better....... The boy friend also went in and out of the room a few times, so he should know how bad the small was....

We have a NOSE for a reason....

I remember reading he noticed a chemical smell when he entered - I dont recall him saying the smell persisted. I dont recall about "covering her head with the sheet" can you link or leave the post #.

I don't think this is a time to question the victims actions. Nobody would expect anything like this to ever happen. I dont care how long you have been traveling.

With all due respect - I would like to see the last 2 posts deleted. The family doesn't need remarks like these at a time when they are dealing with an absolute tragedy.

Sorry some of you guys are still not getting it, but the rest of us and the rest of the world certainly are.

I guess the USA government isn't getting it either, as they condemned the violent revolution attempt of fugitive Thaksin.

So its all about who is more xenophobic to you? That is very narrow and quite a contest. Thai Rak Thai indeed ...

Oh and which group attacked the Asean conference of world leaders? Hint: it wasn't the democrats.

Yes the US (gov) condemned the "Violence" as myself and many people who support their movement did. Few people want to see violence and bloodshed.

The US gov. certainly does not condemn peaceful protest by citizens concerned for their countries direction and democracy.

btw- they also condemned the coup that you said you supported, in another thread.

A US state department spokesman, Tom Casey, said there was "no justification" for the coup.

"It is a step backward for democracy," he added. (BBC)

Never supported it.

It took at least 14 years of advances away - This was all about control. In order to gain the control they put the entire country into jeopardy.

Thailand at one time had the hopes and potential to become a leading SE Asian country, one that others would look up to. I'm not getting that impression anymore.

The international media described it as a bloodless coup.. the actual coup may have been but it's after affect is not.

It is the working class and poor that is affected the most, but it really was not good for anyone.

I went a few weeks ago. None of the roosters we saw died but they took a pretty good beating. Also I didn't see any knives or spurs attached.... not sure if that is part of the tradition here? For me it was far more interesting and exciting to watch the people. Reminded me of the trading floor of the NYSE.

I plan to go back, not as a fan but as an observer - for me its fun.

In my opinion - The average fighting cock lives a better life then his cousin the industrial meat or laying chicken. The owners of these bird treat them like a prize show dog (when they are not fighting them).