Oberkommando

The question is, was this handled properly or are the Police playing games and terrorizing people.

A threat of a year in jail?

Is that a proper sentence or a special just for tourists?

What happens to Thai person that takes something?

Were talking an International Airport here.

It's typical Thai Police modus operandi.

Threaten, bully and intimidate to obtain a confession or financial pay-off.

Easier than proper investigation, building a case and collecting evidence, and more profitable too.

A gold Buddha on a chain.

At least it wasn't a Jatukam.

It's apparent that some posters do not understand law nor understand that evidence in a court of law is used by the prosecution to prove their case.

It should not be in a proper functioning legal system, although often is the case in Thailand, up to the accused to prove their innocence. It is up to the prosecution to build a case, and prove beyond any reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty.

That's how it works. They have not been able to do so in this case to my knowledge.

That the couple were not apprehended while leaving the store with the item, that the cctv footage is inconclusive, that the couple were apprehended in the food court in different clothing, that the couple were not found in possession of the item, and many other factors, ensure the prosecution may not have had sufficient evidence to get a prosecution.

Very plausible scenario, hence the subsequent extortion and lack of due process.

Quite simple and any decent lawyer would have p*ssed this case if the prosecutors were even foolish enough to take it to court.

Oberkommando>>And none of those written or unwritten points cold lead to the demise of the country, only give us a rocky road ahead...

They certainly could contribute. Other events we are not allowed to discuss unfortunately.

Hope it never comes to that, but you have to acknowledge it is a possibility. To not do so underlines a naivety and a failure to understand what is actually happening in this country.

The fake Police story certainly substantiates many claims where so-called 'officials' at Suvarnabhumi have refused to produce ID when asked.

The BBC are apparently now seriously investigating these stories from Bangkok Airport, they will break the story nationally (UK) and internationally if they deem it has enough merit.

Start here http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/pdf/tobacco.pdf

Then look at this thread http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Customs-Tobb...l&hl=excise

Thanks for the links, although those fines (imposed by Customs, no links to Excise figures) are in Baht and are nowhere near the thousands of US$ people have claimed to have been extorted out of by these excise officials for small amounts of tobacco.

If I had to go to bed and place a suitcase underneath that bed, filled with the currency of my choice, that would be all I had when I woke up in five years time I would say that sterling would be pretty much high on my list of choices, as would be yen or the dollar. It certainly wouldn't be the Thai baht.

So come on then what would you like to have in your suitcase ?

Waking up in say seven to ten years time, I would be very happy with a suitcase full of Thai Baht.

There may not even be a Thailand in seven to ten years time.

Pessimistic I know, but the writing is on the wall.

Whatever that writing says it is clearly not in any language that you can read accurately, take another cold hard look at things and then try decipher the writing again.

If you are literate it clearly says continuing civil war in the South, political turmoil with no end in sight, deep divisions within Thai society, Thai economy in recession, and that's just the first sentence.

Unfortunately forum rules prevent me from translating the rest, but I'm sure if you are as clever as you'd like to believe you can work it out.

So he's traveling around in his own private jet and he's not using his real name when he travels... that clears up a number of previously uncertain issues.

Most billionaires do the same.

They have coups regularly

As does Thailand.

If I had to go to bed and place a suitcase underneath that bed, filled with the currency of my choice, that would be all I had when I woke up in five years time I would say that sterling would be pretty much high on my list of choices, as would be yen or the dollar. It certainly wouldn't be the Thai baht.

So come on then what would you like to have in your suitcase ?

Waking up in say seven to ten years time, I would be very happy with a suitcase full of Thai Baht.

There may not even be a Thailand in seven to ten years time.

Pessimistic I know, but the writing is on the wall.

There really are some ignorant people here in Thailand.

This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world, not just Thailand. So the "Amazing Thailand" comments, just make you look silly and a member of the "everything in Thailand is rubbish or a scam" club.

You my friend are talking <deleted>, i was in business here for 9 years and part of that business was unfortunatly dealing with customs and excise, i suggest you get out more into the real world,in " the real world " as you put it there is set charge for goods, in thailand its who you get, and how much you are prepared to haggle, do that in the states/uk can you ? ,this applies for anything from being quoted 5000 baht on a pair of bike rims from china that cost $40, being told the rate was 30 per cent, ( postage was $45 ) to a bike i imported and went from 100.000 to 350.000, i changed nothing, they do, so, unless you came from laos or cambodia, i suggest this line wasnt thought out was it ?....."This is how duty is paid everywhere in the world "

Agree with the above post, and I have also had similar dealings with Customs due to my business interests.

Thai Customs are a law unto themselves and thoroughly corrupt.

madjbs - sorry, but you don't understand how Thai Customs operates nor how bad they can actually be.

As they were not apprehended leaving the store with the stolen goods there is no case to answer.

CCTV footage alone is not sufficient to convict in a proper court of law.

End of.

But the stats that caught my eye this past week were the two "awards", one for being the most prolific users of cocaine in Europe and second for being the country with the highest rate of violence, staggering. All of that suggests to me...

Thailand has its own "awards". Biggest methamphetamine users, one of the worst road traffic fatality rates in the World, gun violence and murder etc.

So let's not get carried away with fantasies of the decline of British society when other countries, including this one, have their fair share of problems but seem to be getting along.

What you believe is irrelevant. Everything posted thusfar on TV (going back 2 years) points to Excise Officers performing their legally sanctioned duty.

I can't find anything to suggest that. Please can you provide links to substantiate these claims as I asked you previously but as yet you have failed to do so, thanks once again in advance.

But please feel free to produce evidence, or even a convincing argument, to the contrary.

There are many reports of men posing as uniformed officials extorting arriving passengers notwithstanding the example you highlight below.

Unfortunately the entire lengthy thread initiated by Emperor_Tud was deleted when he chose to exit from TV. However, those who were around at the time will (hopefully) remember how silly he was made to look with his thread on "Rogue Customs Officers".

Perhaps the mods will feel free to reinstate the thread, in the public interest.

However, to briefly touch on the points you raise - Excise Officers are not confined to the Customs Hall when exercising their duties. The people discussed earlier were dressed in uniforms (blue jackets) and produced ID when questioning passengers coming from the Customs Hall.

Once again, these people were targeting people in the main airport area and at the taxi rank, nowhere near the Customs hall (that is air-side) and they were not questioning, several people have remarked that they felt physically threatened, intimidated and harassed.

The fines outlined by those unfortunate enough to be busted were totally in accordance with publicly available schedules for penalties.

Again I ask you to provide evidence to substantiate this.

We have incidents of people being extorted into paying thousands of US$ is supposed fines, I don't believe that in these cases, as with the Ingrams, that due process was followed nor these fines are in accordance with the law.

Based on your argument so far, the only one that would be laughed out of court is your good self

I'm afraid these stories of extortion and blackmail by uniformed officials at Suvarnabhumi Airport are no laughing matter.

They were perpetrating a similar scam on tourists bringing in excess tobacco from the Middle East recently. Anyone caught bringing in over the allowed amount was taken away and extorted in a similar fashion to the Ingrams.

It wasn't Customs doing their jobs either, it was just a bunch of people claiming to be officials searching travellers bags in the arrivals area and at the taxi ranks.

It seems they have switched tact and are now targeting Duty Free shoppers.

Extortion, pure and simple.

Rubbish!

This hoary old chestnut was gone through at length on TV more than a year ago, and clearly shown to be codswallop.

Those caught with excess fags were being fined the prescribed amount - hardly extortion.

But you are right on one point - it wasn't Customs Officers doing their jobs.

It was Excise Officers doing their jobs.

I don't believe the correct fines (imposed by Customs BTW, not Excise) are in the thousands of US$ as many people were extorted into paying for just a few excess cigarettes.

It was people claiming to be excise officers, no proof that they were actually Excise officers nor had jurisdiction or the authority to operate at the airport has ever been provided. If you have such informations please share them here with us. Thanks in advance.

Of course if a person has already passed through Customs and is in possession of tobacco waiting for a taxi or in the arrivals area there is absolutely no proof they brought that in with them to Thailand. Possession of tobacco is not a crime as far as I am aware, correctly tax stamped or not. In any country with a vague semblance of a justice system it would be laughed out of court.

In Thailand they use intimidation and bullying as they have done in the Ingram's case to extort money with the very real threat of having to face Thailand's inept and corrupt court system, a process which often takes months, if not years. If it is not shoplifting, it is people over the limit with their duty free, or they come up with another flimsy reason for the extortion.

Good on the Ingrams, The Times and Andrew Drummond for bringing the real problems at the airport to the public fore, even if some people are still sticking their heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

They were perpetrating a similar scam on tourists bringing in excess tobacco from the Middle East recently. Anyone caught bringing in over the allowed amount was taken away and extorted in a similar fashion to the Ingrams.

It wasn't Customs doing their jobs either, it was just a bunch of people claiming to be officials searching travellers bags in the arrivals area and at the taxi ranks.

It seems they have switched tact and are now targeting Duty Free shoppers.

Extortion, pure and simple.

Why bring him back?

Almost a certainty of major civil unrest if he returns or is brought back.

She'll have no problem - in fact out of all the places she has been selling from, selling local goods from Thailand (with the low labour and production costs that exist here) will offer her a bunch of oppurtunities that are far better than those she has had to date.

I know 2 expats in Thailand - living off ebay. Okay , they're selling counterfiet goods (mostly brandnamed clothing - shipping all over the world), but thats not the point - the point is I undertaand one guy is earning $8 - 10K a month, and the other fellow is earning around $5k a month.

So - can she do it? You bet she can.

I think you'll find feepay don't allow counterfeits to be sold any more and those profits are pure pie in the sky these days anyway (especially for counterfeits if you can even get away with it).

My g/f moved her products off feepay and she's making more than she was before and with no fees. Feepay take listing fees and 10% from the sale costs then Painpal (which you must offer now and it is the most common payment method) take another 3-5% + flat fee! A total gouge. The last month she was using them the fees were around 38,000thb IIRC which was the straw that broke the camel's back (and that doesn't include Painpal's fees either).

She pays $9.99 a month for her site and 3% on credit card transactions, she can put up as many items as she wants, anything she wants doesn't matter if it is counterfeit and doesn't have to comply with feepay's increasingly difficult and irritating policies.

If you are a novice then by all means learn the trade on ebay but serious sellers thinking about running a proper business should be looking to sever the umbilicle with ebay as quickly as possible.

Ebay is also targetting high volume retailers that have high-street businesses (floundering in the current recession) and have alienated the small sellers that built and were the core of their business in the search for profits. Smaller sellers are now suffering and having to comply with increased pressure from feepay.

My g/f now finds running her own site infinitely more satisfying, cheaper and ultimitely more profitable. It was a struggle to setup and took about 6 months to take off but the effort has all been worth it.

Why would Asians come to Thailand to pay more for luxury items than they would in their home countries?

The only bargains in Thailand are counterfeits, trinkets and junk, and these borderline celebrities won't be buying any of that tat (pun intended).

Unfortunately, if they check TV.com they'll find a core majority of disgruntled whinging Expats constantly bashing Thailand and Thais. This seems to be the target audience, or at least it appears the most vocal one. Misery LOVES company (and apparently there's profit in it;) Enjoy!

It's the same with any web forum about any subject matter.

Thailand has its fair share of problems. One thing I do notice is the level of negative news stories coming from Thailand has markedly increased in the last couple of years and you can't blame whinging expats for that I'm afraid.

PS: approach any group of actual tourists anywhere in Thailand and ask them if they like Thailand. The vast majority will likely say 'We LOVE it!' (and despite the doomsayers, many will return and likely with greater #s as the world economy returns). Please pardon raining on the negative parade, will try to get more 'in line' with the theme...)

I have and I find the opposite to be true. In fact I find many tourists disgruntled about visas, spiralling costs, scams and other annoyances, and as a result many are heading elsewhere in the region in greater numbers.

What's the point of having an HDTV if you are not watching anything in HD? Defeats the purpose!

I have a large collection on blu-rays I have purchased relatively cheaply from eBay and I download HD content from torrents.

Forget about upscaling DVD players, they rarely make your DVDs look better and they are nowhere near the quality of proper HD. Your TV will upscale automatically anyway so it's just a gimmick.

Get a media tank or build a Home Theatre PC with a big hard drive and HDMi if you want to download or get a standalone blu-ray player. It will upscale DVDs as well. The PS3 is ugly and a new slimmer one is due out soon so you might want to hang on for that. A Home Theatre PC will do both jobs if you get a blu-ray drive. That's what I use.

My Thai wife and I are going to relocate permanently to Thailand in the next couple of months.

How did you find the Permanent Residency process? Easy? Difficult? costly?

The hassle of eating out these days due to the low standard of eateries and restaurants in Bangkok has resulted in me cooking a lot more at home, and now I even cook stuff like breads and sausage myself.

Tonight I am having a Salmon steak that has been marinading in champagne vinegar, white wine, fresh dill, black pepper, olive oil and lime, served with a mixed salad and boiled potatoes.

I find myself thinking, "I could do better than this" when I eat out more often these days.

Sounds good; what's for dinner tomorrow night? Tube steak smothered in pubes?

Your jealousy is noted.

Stick to fish and chips there's a good lad.

And they can't even get that right in Thailand.

Bottom line - Unesco's listing created only more problems with preserving the site. They should definitely reasses their approach.

It didn't seem to be a problem before the PAD tried forcing the government's hand in the matter, and of course having a PAD supporter in the cabinet doesn't help.

Previously Thailand wasn't going to object to the UNESCO listing.

Get a bunch of military backed fascists in power as we have now and this is what happens.

I went to Pattaya and was scammed into visiting a timeshare complex in Jomtien, I was pressurised by Farang salesmen, one even said I would not be leaving until I had signed some papers, I called my brother who came to collect me, of course, when seeing my brother, the very arrogant salesman walked away quickly.

Work permits should be inspected at these places, , It is a suggestion that has been forwarded to Immigration Police actually.

So, beware of Farangs selling anything, 99.9999999% are trying to scam you.

Racist post IMO.

The Thais stopped this in our moobaan as soon as we got our dog as they are all scared of her.

I just let her off the leash outside and she's aggressive towards anyone that tried to come anywhere near her gate.

Problem solved.

Tenderloin. I had a Thai-french one tonight and it melted in the mouth.