Sarge

October 29, 2008

Macbook Pro all the way!
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop...pro?mco=MTE2NjM

I second that recommendation, best laptop and OS in the market. Nothing comes even close to it

October 29, 2008

Sondhi a victim ? Do you know who Sondhi is? He is a crook of the worst kind.

totally agree

When people will realize? It's true, there is one person who's responsible for all the evil things the PAD is talking about, but this man is standing on their stage, this man is Sondhi!

prolly only when all these geriatric farang, PAD aficionados (who have NO stake in this country, and who delude themselves that they are of any value to the muban they temporarily live in) realise that now the biggest threat to their visa is not the TRT party and any of its spin offs but a new administration headed by Sondhi's cohorts. Then watch them turn against PAD with the same vitriol they attack Thaksin.

October 29, 2008

You aren't worth replying to anymore than this limited response because you have some kind of personal attack agenda against me for no good reason. I grew up believing real Italian cooks when cooking their tomato sauces simmered them for hours. Did I ever say I thought all Italian cooking was about pasta sauce? No. Have I been to Italy? Yes. My Thai comments were ALWAYS about the paste. I compared the Thai curry paste to Italian pasta sauce because I think they are a fair comparison. Did I ever say Thai cooking is only about curries? No. Of course I didn't. As a matter of fact I am a dedicated foodie and home cook and I come from a culture that loves and values good food and cooking: urban, sophisticated America. And no I don't always make everything from scratch, some things I do, some things I don't, based on time, expense, and convenience. And spare your rebuttal, I am finished with you.
BTW: I got you, Sarge, confused with the owner of the new pasta sauce company. I am very sorry for that error. Good day.

This post has been edited by Jingthing: Today, 2008-10-30 01:55:33

classic

October 29, 2008

Me: For that matter, what percentage of Thai home cooks in Thailand do you figure make their own curry pastes from scratch?
You:

Thais do cook from scratch, they, unlike Anglo-Saxon people, value their food and shop daily. Curries are not cooked daily, in most provinces of Thailand

Thanks for correcting a "myth" that I had that real Italian mamas simmer their from scratch tomato sauce for hours. It is refreshing to have long held beliefs challenged by an expert.

The Thai thing I still think you have wrong. I specifically said PASTES. Do you know how many ground spices go into making a green curry PASTE from scratch? I bet you most Thai home cooks in this modern age (you can buy these pre-made fresh PASTES in markets) and even restaurants do not make their own CURRY PASTES from scratch. That is a different thing than cooking the curry using the paste.

I am on your side and if I like the taste of your sauces I will surely be a loyal customer, so good luck with your sauces ...

Thai curry pastes (pre-made and ready to use) for sale in a local Thai market

man, it's clear that you're out of your depth on this subject; spouting stereotypes (...real Italian mamas simmer their from scratch tomato sauce for hours...) and commenting on things you know next to nothing about.

They way you phrased your comment about many Thais cooking home, with a final reference to curry paste. it was and still is a sweeping statement (coupled now with Italian mamma ....) that shows you have little interaction with people and their cuisine, both Italian & Thais. Now you back pedalling putting all the emphasis on curry only because you feel on a safer ground. To the point of changing, editing your post a few times (where's the sceptical comment gone?) and adding a photo to cement your argument.

Of course curry pastes are sold in shops in Thailand, as ready made pasta sauces are sold in Italian shops too. Both cultures have strong. definite cuisine and culinary culture, they do cook from scratch virtually all the meals prepared at home. It may be a surprise to you but there is a lot more than pasta sauce or curry in Italian & Thai cuisine. Again in case you missed the point, curries are not cooked daily, in most provinces of Thailand as well as Ragu' (not Bolognese) is cooked daily in Italy. It's done occasionally because of the labour intensive process (both the Ragu' and the Curry), but most people do it from scratch as it's a lot more rewarding. So in essence, yes Thais & Italian (not only mamma, just as many papa' cook at home) do cook from scratch as the average day meal is prepared in 30 mins or so time frame.

It's clear that you're from a country that doesn't value food much and resort to prepared pasteurised, canned sauces and frozen burger and chips for their daily protein intake. Do you also buy pre-boiled pasta too?

October 29, 2008

I have no intention on trying to please the average Thai palate, as I am looking for export opportunities in Asia. In fact, I just received word from an agent I am working with that our sauces have passed Singapore FDA analysis.
Are you a food critic by profession?

Nope, I’m in the food industry by training and trade, been involved in this kind of business for yonks and in a much larger scale. I think you’ll find the Singapore market more commercially rewarding if you can break into it, but local commercial dynamics are different to what you’re used in Thailand.

Correct. However, since Italian tomatoes require the addition of citric acid (in all the bottled sauces I've examined) to keep the pH within the safety range, and since a bottled sauce must go through a heat-treatment process to pass FDA regulations for food safety, it doesn't make much difference on acidity or texture.
If one is so inclined to be so critical on minute details of authenticity, then most likely that person would be eating at a gourmet restaurant, or cooking themselves if they have the ability. We're not competing with 5-star gourmet Italian restaurants - just the other bottled brands.

well, yes and no; Italian tomatoes grown in the southern regions are harvested before they reach the optimal sugary level, due to pressing commercial reasons. Also the soil and climate is rather dry. Hence you have a tomato that has high level of acidity. That is why prompting some people to add sugar during home cooking. Yes the ph is a constant concern, to tomato growers when they can it. But the different texture, acidity & sugar level and water content between the two fresh tomatoes does make a difference.

Of course we’re no comparing ready made sauces to home cooking or restaurant offering. I just pointed it out the fact that you branded the whole concept as typical Italian style cooking. Btw, still not sure about the derivation of the word Nana. In Italian language grandma is Nonna.

We don't use Thai herbs of any sort.
Yes, there are crappy restaurants all over the planet... including in Italy. As you allude, it all depends on the management and training. But I was referring above to more well-run ones in Thailand that do have good training, and import necessary ingredients as required, or take advantage of the Royal Project's many quality offerings of Western vegetables and herbs (usually grown in greenhouses around Chiangmai).

I have no intention of marketing in Italy, and the international bottled pasta sauce market has long established the "Traditional" nomencalture.

Being a bottled pasta sauce, it's not going to have the same texture as one would make Amatriciana at home either. We have compete with what's on the supermarket shelves and the leading brand that dominate the market share. We are too small to take huge risks, but we try to differentiate ourselves as best we can, or one-up them somehow. Again, we're not competing with 5-star restaurants or trying to satisfy Italian "pasta sauce snobs" who automatically scoff at any bottle pasta sauce (I have them in my own family, so no offense meant to anyone out there).

I know full well there are certain constraints regarding bottled pasta sauces (pH management and FDA food safety requirments) that limit their ability to compare to fresh-made pasta sauces (caveat: when done right!).

But we're in a business of convenience + flavour vs. price.

I opened this thread because we are a young company, and I am interested in feedback for improvement, or if we got it right already (from Westerners' point of view).

Sure, there may be a tiny percentage of crappy Italian restaurants in Italy. At least they can say they’re the real thing. In my experience in Europe, Australia, S. America and S.E. Asia the majority of Italian restaurants, caterers & manufacturers dubbing in Italian food have a poor resemblance with what is produced and cooked in Italy. See, and here I’m getting off the tangent, Italian cuisine is well known internationally and loads of people want to join in the bandwagon to cash in. It happened with pizza, a concept now too far bastardized worldwide that is beyond reprieve by the Italian government. You get hilarious situation where some Americans believe that pizza was invented in NY by Italian immigrants at the turn of the last century. I kid you not! Just look at the pizza thread in the food forum. It came from a mod of all people. It was priceless

It’s not a case of competing against 5 star restaurants or being “pasta sauces snob”, but if you market a sauce, like Amatriciana as typical Italian recipe than you should know it’s made of pecorino (the Roman variety, rather than Sardinian) and not parmiggiano (or you're using grana instead?) and guanciale (Italian cured pork cheek) and not bacon, a cut from a different part of the pork that is rarely used in Italy. I think maybe there is an opportunity to pitch your products to a different level from the mass producers. You’’ll never be able to compete with them so why not offering a boutique range, given that you have a great family cooking background, of premium sauces that depart from the usual Bolognese, Amatriciana etc... Thailand is a virgin market for this type of products, rich locals are as snobbish and fashion conscious as you can get anywhere in the world. Emporium food hall is a great place to be in.

yes, we sell in Isaan, please have a look at the bottom of our website home page.

will do

Well, thanks.... I think.

yeah .... you're welcome

Been looking into it, but not quite there yet.
We would need to get larger retort machine that would accomodate retort bag capability or perhaps canning equipment for large cans.

as you look into it harder you'll be more attracted to the FS model. Once you get past the initial capital outlay, you'll get higher return in the long term, less expenditure and marketing commitments. and then horizon will widen once you tap in the private label channel

October 29, 2008

What percentage of Italian home cooks in Italy do you reckon spend hours simmering their own from scratch pasta sauces?
I have been buying made in Italy bottled sauces in Thailand but I will be happy to try out this locally made product.

For that matter, what percentage of Thai home cooks in Thailand do you figure make their own curry pastes from scratch?

this a misleading and wrong statement

it takes half hour, top, to prepare Bucatini all'Amatriciana (a sauce mentioned here) at home, from when you start preparing to moment you sit down and eat it. You don't "simmer" or stew sauces. Most of pasta sauces are easy and quick to prepare, once you know what you're talking about. One of the few sauces that has a long cooking process is Ragu' (called Bolognese outside Italy), but then again it's worth the effort

Thais do cook from scratch, they, unlike Anglo-Saxon people, value their food and shop daily. Curries are not cooked daily, in most provinces of Thailand

It's easy and relatively quick to cook from scratch, it takes more effort in shopping at local market than labouring in the kitchen. The results are spectacularly better and more rewarding than buying ready meals or prepared sauces in the shops. It's a cultural and mental habit

October 29, 2008

1. I didn't invent bottled pasta sauce. It's a rather large international industry, even in Italy.
2. I'm an Italian-American.

3. It's named after my Italian grandmother (my Nana, Mary Mazzia). Google Mary Mazzia and you will find some of her work referenced by UC San Juaquin and UC Davis (http://cesanjoaquin.ucdavis.edu/files/896.pdf). She is sister of Tony Ciampi, long-time grower of vegies in Santa Barbara. She also dedicated close to 50 years of her life to charity work cooking for the Franciscan brothers at the SB Mission. She is also cousin of Salvatore Ferragamo and spent some time living in the same household as him, when he was living in Santa Barbara building his shoe business. She taught me the ins-and-outs of Italian cooking. She was married to my Papa (grandpa) for 60 years, was an active dynamo until her last day, and is deserving of much respect.

4. The ingredients we use are top quality. Thailand grows wonderful plum tomatoes, onions and garlic. We use fresh Italian herbs grown at the royal project - not Thai herbs. You can read some of the user comments above and/or actually taste for yourself to see if I am "passing them off", or if they actually do taste authentic. In fact, I encourage you to compare us to the more expensive Italian brands.

Aside from that, what's wrong with Thai labor? Does it matter who peels/seeds the tomatoes and chops the onions or even who is the sous chef? I really can't follow your reasoning here. The labor aspect is no different from any Italian restaurant in Thailand. Its the recipe and process that matters, which is controlled by management - me, in my company's case, and the head chef at any Italian restaurant.

5. Traditional sauce - basic Italian tomato pasta sauce (with Italian herbs) - used to make many Italian dishes besides pasta, or expanded upon as a base to make other sauces (by adding meat, wine, vegies, etc). Made with simple ingredients, but not so easy to get "balanced" just right.

1. Indeed, pasteurised, shelf stable sauces (not just pasta bases) it’s a huge market. Most of the world’s leading food manufacturers have dedicated ranges. But as in anything that gets standardised, recipes and flavours get blander departing from what was the original idea (pasta sauces, curries etc..), ingredients get swapped to the nearest available local substitute or totally changed, in part to assuage local sensitivities and tastes. It misleads customers palate into believing that is the facto-standard. Hence you get [.........] (fill in the nationality) holidaying in the country’s recipe origin, trying the real deal and get shocked to find that it’s totally different to what they’ve been weaned at home. I’ve seen and visited few manufacturing plants worldwide as well as tiny one-man band operations but I haven’t come across this one yet

2. good on ya

3. I wouldn’t have a clue who all these people are, and I suspect most people outside Santa Barbara wouldn’t have either. I do know of Salvatore Ferragamo, a shoe designer who died in 1960. It’s charming nonetheless to see emigrants trying to educate far-flung people on Italian cooking and culture by reflex

4. That’s where things get tricky, no wanting to get too much into details, partly as I haven’t visited your factory, so I’ll make some general comments. Thai tomatoes have different texture and acidity level than Italian’s. Plum tomatoes (San Marzano variety) have almost been replaced by the Roma quality (an ad hoc spin off from the original) in most of the pasta sauces’ manufacturers processes. Herbs like basil share only the name, Italian basil and Thai basil are two totally different animals. Spices like chilli have different fierceness and flavour. Italian ‘peperoncino’ and Thai ‘prik” are distant cousins. However, it’s interesting to see that you’re growing them here. I’d be interested to visit the garden and trying them. Manufacturing processes and Thai labour, can’t comment in details as I haven’t seen your operation but I do know some Italian restaurants in Thailand (not just BKK) and apart from a few cases, they implement piss poor operation management, giving wrong or basic at best, training to their cooks and front room staff. Not surprising as the vast majority of them have no formal training and never run similar operation in Italy or elsewhere. Most use local produce, partly because it’s difficult and expensive to purchase original ingredients but also because they can get away with it as their customers are tourist who wouldn’t know better. After a honeymoon period, they cut costs purchasing low quality local ingredients, employing students in order to maximise their profits, whilst delaying paying their hapless suppliers to the point of being on stop. This happens worldwide not just Thailand. But, hey I’ll look out for your products when I’m back in January. Does your supply chain reach the provinces (like Isaan)?

5. Traditional has no meaning in Italy, it’d be called pasta base sauce. Regarding Amatriciana, the original ingredients are different to the one you posted here. You’re using near enough substitutes, as I mentioned in my previous point.

Anyway, best of luck with your operation, I’ll follow your endavour to see how it develops over the time. Q.: have you made provision / plans to gear your manufacturing processes into catering foodservice mode?

October 28, 2008

lol did you make this one up or you're just having a laff? priceless!

Not quite sure what how to respond to that... but I guess the part about Soi Nana was a bit tongue-in-cheek.

just the whole idea, shelf stable, pasteurized tomato based pasta sauces conceptualized by a farang (presumably American), produced in Thailand, by Thais using local produce and imports from various countries. Named after a BKK tourist area. I thought it quite funny, especially as you pass them off as typical Italian. Out of curiosity, what is "Traditional" sauce?

October 28, 2008

hi guys
anyone know of a mac guru in BKK?

i have some bugs that need fixing plus need some help with I-tunes, ideally a farang but a thai would be ok assuming he could speak reasonable english.

cheers

dm

always happy to help a fellow Mac user. Here's a list of dealers and service centres in Thailand:

(Apple Authorised Service Provider) Macintosh Center Co., Ltd. -

989 Siam Discovery Center, Room 404, 4th Floor, Rama 1 Road,

Phathumwan Bangkok

Thailand 10330

Tel: 662-658-0476~77

Fax: 662-658-0478

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