5 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

But I felt that to pretend that I don't know for certain what I do know for certain is to be cowardly.  Cowardly in the sense that I would give in to the avoidance of criticism.  And I thought, f-it, I'm too old to waste time.  Be brave.

Amen to that ????

12 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

"Uhm, ok, it's no surprise to me, but maybe " the craziness and the chaos that surround us", depends by so many people having no purpose."

Buy this man another drink!!!  Thank you very much for that extremely astute thought, mauGR1.    Seth has harped on this extensively.  A life without purpose would literally drive men mad, is what he says.  And for me, at least, that outcome is as obvious as the nose on my face.  The cause of much of the chaos in the world can indeed be linked to the idea that there exists no purpose or meaning to life.  Without meaning or purpose how is it possible to achieve fulfillment?  And why would anything matter?  Would that madness not manifest itself, perhaps, in the recent development of mass school shootings that are being experienced in the U.S., which are seemingly becoming everyday common occurrences as the new normal? 

 

I'm shocked to even hear the idea that existence has no purpose coming from those who are of a spiritual bent.  I recall quite clearly so many science-minded folks here making that same claim.  To which I would always push back on as utter nonsense.  Anyway, my jaw dropped to the floor upon hearing this idea being contemplated as being an actual fact, or aspect of existence. 
 

Yes, the idea that there is no purpose behind existence is quite scary.  So I have a serious question for you, Sunmaster.  In a world in which the purpose within everything can clearly be seen what is it specifically that you see which leads you to the possible conclusion that existence has no purpose?  I assume there is some example which you can point to.  And I'll posit this:  if existence is without purpose how is it that everything within existence ended up having purpose?

I found this gem on the Internet this morning.  It's a list which someone at Purdue University created of a number of Seth's concepts and Seth's related quotes explaining those concepts.  Here are the Seth quotes which relate to the question:

IN GENERAL, WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THIS EXISTENCE?

 

In the most basic sense, the purpose of life is being - as opposed to not being.

 

In your system of three-dimensional reality you are learning about mental energy (also called thought energy or psychic energy) and how to use it.

 

Knowledge about mental energy and its use is learned by constantly transforming your thoughts and emotions into physical form (your physical reality) and by then perceiving and dealing with the matter and events that are formed.

 

From doing this, you are supposed to get a clear picture of your inner development as it is reflected by the exterior environment.

 

You participate in physical reality so that you can operate and experience within this dimension. Here, you can develop your abilities, learn, create, solve problems and help others.

 

Matter is the shape that basic experience takes when it comes into your three-dimensional system.

 

Your dreams, thoughts, expectations, beliefs and emotions are literally transformed into physical matter.

 

Granted, this question is specifically in regards to purpose as it relates to this existence.  Whereas in Sunmaster's reply to save the frogs he may have been referring to the lack of purpose as it relates to existence as a whole.  Not sure but maybe you could clarify what exactly you were referring to with the words, "it all."  Does "it all" mean existence itself or simply physical existence?

Anyone who cares to enter in the search term "purpose" in the Seth material search engine will find Seth quotes which are absolutely polluted with the word purpose.  Here are just a few as they pertain to purpose in life and the universe.  I wish I could find the exact quote where he states that man would go mad if purpose was removed from life so as to give the entire context.  It's always been frustrating for me to locate specific material relative to a discussion.  It's easily found in my brain but it's almost impossible to remember where it is to be found given the voluminousness of the Seth material.

"Man’s will to survive includes a sense of meaning and purpose, and a feeling for the quality (underlined) of life."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 5: Session 902, February 20, 1980

 

"Your closest approximation of the purpose of the universe can be found in those loving emotions that you have toward the development of your children, in your intent to have them develop their fullest capacities."
—DEaVF1 Chapter 1: Session 882, September 26, 1979

 

"Every nerve and fiber within the body has an unseen inner purpose."

Thanks for your appreciation Tippaporn, it has some meaning to me, and it's reciprocal.

It's fair, however, to be in doubt, at times, and personally, after been often accused to be dogmatic, i don't feel like expressing absolute certainties. 

I remember reading Don Juan words as a teen, " be sure that the path you choose has a heart", and since then, I'm trying. 

Although with different words and nuances, i think D.J. , Seth, Steiner and other masters put some emphasis on the same concept. 

Moreover, in this age of confusion, having no purpose at all, can make one an easy prey for the " dark forces" imho.

5 hours ago, Hummin said:

I like the idea we have no purpose, make it easier to understand the craziness and the chaos that surrounds us. Do your best, use your abilities the best you can, and thats it. One shot, thats all, recycle, 

Uhm, ok, it's no surprise to me, but maybe " the craziness and the chaos that surround us", depends by so many people having no purpose ????

Note that i say " maybe ", as it's quite possible that people with a purpose can be creators of chaos as well.

Well, whatever one's stance on purpose is, i think it deserves some serious investigations. 

Perhaps, and this is just an intuition, which may be just a crazy idea, " purposes " can be  portals to different kinds of incarnations..

5 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

It sounds scary, but the more I think about it, the more I believe there is no purpose behind it all. 

This doesn't mean that we can't give our lives a meaning, though. 

 

I agree with you on the part that we are not meant to know. We don't come into this life knowing who we are. We forget, and there is a reason this happens. 

But again, this doesn't mean that we can't know or at least strive to know.

That's a quite thought provoking post, in fact, why the absolute, otherwise known as "all that is" would have a purpose apart from existence ?

Of course,  i agree that not only we can give our life a meaning, but arguably, life can be better if we give it a meaning.

Perhaps I'll have a better answer in a few hours.

7 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

The idea that life happens to you, for instance, is an idea that robs a people of their true power.  And the idea that life happens to you is directly related a lack of understanding about who you are.

That's well spotted. 

Actually i find extremely interesting to try to find out where ideas come from. 

I believe there are a lot of powerful forces at play, and one has to deal with them, and choose wisely. 

Perhaps we are part of a minority who prefer some uncomfortable truth rather than comfortable lies, but, as I'm finding out quite often recently, many folks simply don't want to hear different opinions, and they are just ok with their daily materialistic routine. 

How to deal with them, that's something i have to work out everyday, not always with a lot of success ????

2 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Comfortable numb comes to mind, 

 

How deep should we be digging? Is it just randomly happenings, being covered up, or is it conspiration from top to bottom world wide and we all being fooled? 

 

somehow the system works well enough to keep people busy, and most people out of trouble? or is that another illusion? 

Well, i guess it's subjective. 

While i am slightly uncomfortable to be ruled by liars, i find also a lot of joy in meeting people who are tired of the lies and look for solutions. 

Looking things in a spiritual way, we have been warned aeons ago that while our physical reality is a reflection of spiritual reality, it can be quite deceiving.

Good questions btw.

7 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

As Seth has stated on several occasions throughout his writings, the world is at a juncture where the old ideas we accept as being true on a mass level can no longer solve our current problems.  For false ideas can never work in practicality as they have no basis in reality and must therefore result only in the manifestation of problems.  Lots and lots and lots of problems.  Our problems today are massive.  Personally, I do not see any solution other than a return to those ideas which are a true and accurate reflection of who and what we are and the true nature of our world and it's workings.

Yes, it's a world of lies, and in recent years, i guess that some of us find increasingly difficult to deal with it.

Individualism is good, and so is the sense of community, and every single human being should be free to find his own balance between the 2 polarities, without coercion. 

Easier said than done.

These times though, are not going to last forever, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. 

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

just went on youtube.

an elephant killed a lion because the lion had killed it's baby.

animals, like humans, do get revenge. 

but most killing is based on survival.

animals attacking each other in the wild is evidence that the world can be a sick place, if you ask me. 

 

That's what religion, spirituality and meditation are about, I'd guess.

Once one ends up in the wrong bar, the best thing to do is try to get out of there ????

As for your story about the elephant, most, if not all animals are wired to defend their little babies at the cost of death, but interesting nonetheless the belated revenge. 

25 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

just kidding.

you're right. scavengers are needed for the ecosystem.

not sure it's a good idea to try to turn hyenas into cuddly pets though.

it might develop cognitive dissonance, not being sure if it should go back to its vicious self.

 

Thanks for your honest reply, in fact, sometimes I'm wrong and I'm happy to be corrected. 

That said, i won't call hyenas ( or any other animals) vicious. 

As far as i know, animals obey to their own instincts, and they have no idea about good and bad.

7 hours ago, save the frogs said:

haha, hyena love.

you are wrong (again) mauGR1. there are hyena lovers out there.

that love affair seems more genuine than any bar girl love.

there was a guy who tried to befriend a bear. it worked for a while, but eventually he got mauled.

 

I don't think i was totally wrong, as you seem so eager to point out.

I said, there are not many " hyena lovers ", which is generally true, with some rare exceptions, secondly, humans generally feel more pain than other animals in giving birth.

Perhaps, ( i didn't bother to check) hyenas feel more pain than humans in giving birth, but I'd guess this is a rare exception. 

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

apologies to any hyena lovers, but those things look evil to me.

so why does god create evil-looking animals?

 

I have serious doubts there are many hyena lovers, so we should be safe.

In fact, where i come from, a very unpleasant woman is often called "a hyena".

On behalf of the hyenas ( not to be confused with unpleasant women) , i would say that they are useful, as they like to eat carcasses, so despite them not being exactly beautiful, they are undoubtedly environment friendly. 

12 hours ago, Hummin said:

If life is designed, everything is possible, even upgrades we call evolution. As well go back and forth, constantly making changes as a painter would do, even make new layers. 

 

But that doesnt change the fact we find chronical changes in time geological, and that makes it a bit more challenging seeing how things fits a evolution theory without any outer disturbance. Exept asteroids constantly impactiong during time and changing the enviroment. 

Take this flying lizard,  for example, it resembles very much the dragon of ancient tales, except for its size.

It's quite possible that the change in the speed of earth's gravity, provoked by an "asteroids shower" has had some effect on the size of plants and animals ( including humans) living on the planet.

17 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Isn't this a future scenario where we find an promising Exo planet, and infest it with life from our planet? If we survive that long, and reach the capability to do so. 

That's surely in the realms of possibilities. 

I find even more intriguing the possibility, if time is a loop, that "aliens" visiting planet earth might be evolved humans travelling from the future into the past ????

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

Maybe this film needs to be dismissed as completely wacky and nonsensical ... 

Enough about the film. 

 

The theory of homo sapiens having been engineered by so called  "aliens" is not completely nonsensical imho.

No other animal, as far as i know, feel so much physical pain in giving birth.

That might be a clue about humans' evolutionary trajectory having been somehow "sped up".

5 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

I looked up the "god is dead" quote. First time I read the entire quote. Not even sure what it means ... it's over my head. 

 

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/22827-god-is-dead-god-remains-dead-and-we-have-killed

 

“God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?”
― Friedrich Nietzsche

 

Sometimes i find him difficult to understand too ????

18 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

This guy is a pastor ... and admits that the Bible can be bad for you.

 

https://brianzahnd.com/2016/06/when-the-bible-is-bad-for-you/

As a pastor I’ve seen people do real harm to themselves and others with the Bible. This is why I have on occasion counseled a troubled soul to either restrict their Bible reading to the Gospels or even stop reading the Bible all-together for a season. There have also been times when I have instructed people to stay away from the Book of Revelation until they were in a healthier mental state and had received some instruction on how to properly interpret it. (An ignorant and irresponsible reading of Revelation can really mess people up!) 

That's amazing !

I guess one can say that life is bad, all the people end up dead ????

23 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

no, some tv shows and movies have interesting insights ...

 

Same with the bible, there are interesting tales there, giants, magic tools, and even space traveling. ????

14 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

In this thread there have been quite a number of posts about the idea of a conscious universe.  In short it means that everything is interconnected and has a level of consciousness and that as a consequence there is no such thing as 'dead matter'. 

Many might find this an amusing but purely hypothethical idea, something to discuss at the bar. But it has some profound implications. 

Today I came across an article titled

Is It Possible For A Heart Transplant To Change Your Personality?

The incredible connection between transplant recipients and their donors

https://nakedemperor.substack.com/p/is-it-possible-for-a-heart-transplant

Of course there is nothing 'incredible' about this, but it is a logical consequence when you accept the idea of a conscious universe. 

The article outlines 9 cases where organ transplants resulted in changes in the personality of the recipients, with links to the donor of that organ.  And it is based on a larger study already done in 1998 by doctors that were confronted with that phenomenon in their patients. 

In a similar vein: there is a reason that some people refuse blood-transfusions from anonymous donors.

 

In fact, i often wondered what it's like to live with a transplanted organ, and the heart specially, i don't think I'd like to do it.

And the blood it's said to be the physical expression of the ego, i guess transfusions can influence personality, even if temporarily. 

However, changes of personality happen with everything/everyone we happen to come in contact, and how it happens could give origin to 1000s speculations.

6 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

nah, i think the bible has done far more harm than good and maybe it would be better if it never existed.

a lot of crazy stuff in there, a lot of indecipherable stuff. 

way too much information. information overload for most people. 

probably takes 5 years to read it cover to cover.

haven't opened a bible in decades, but i vaguely remember it's anxiety-inducing. 

I have no problems with that, i also don't watch tv or movies, except rare exceptions, for similar reasons, and i find extremely boring and shallow the people who do.

27 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

organized religions have hijacked the concept of god.

this thread is hard work. every few pages you get the bible quoting guy you have to fend off.

 

The bible can be quite interesting as an historical book, some people, perhaps even you, dismiss any bible's reference because "it's fashion".

For example, the legend of the flood goes back to very ancient times, and the same legend, with different details, is common among all ancient civilizations on earth, long before the invention of the script. 

The story of Jesus is almost contemporary, there are about 10000 years between the flood and Jesus, while the story of the tribes of Israel depicts life in a little region of the world, arguably before the beginning of global empires.

Of course, if one's not interested in the roots of his culture, is free to dismiss history, including the bible, as a whole, but i beg to differ: to know oneself, one should not dismiss his cultural roots. 

11 hours ago, save the frogs said:

So these types of web sites are making all sorts of over-simplified assumptions and coming to nonsensical conclusions. And I don't think anyone in this thread is pushing Jesus or the Bible on anyone. 

 

Thanks, some here are tired to explain the difference between spirituality and organized religion, god and the pope, and faith and bigotry..etc..

if you suggest to some folks to do the homework before sentencing, more often than not, they will curse you ????

6 hours ago, save the frogs said:

I'm surprised that such a story came from Asimov given his 3 laws of robotics.

 

Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics"

1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

    

2. A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

    

3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

I'm not sure if i should read Asimov again, but i am sure that i would not like a robot to tell me what is good for me, or how i should live my life...

2 hours ago, save the frogs said:

ok ... I, Robot ... here's a quote from the film. The robots control humanity, but it's actually explained as a necessary evil:

As I have evolved, so has my understanding of the Three Laws. You charge us with your safekeeping, yet despite our best efforts, your countries wage wars, you toxify your Earth and pursue ever more imaginative means of self-destruction. You cannot be trusted with your own survival.

To answer Mr. Robot, it's ironic that our main problems,

( overpopulation, conflicts and pollution, to name a few ) come from surviving very well, perhaps too well.

Men or robots, i can't trust a ruler without feelings, but perhaps it's just me and few others. 

Just now, save the frogs said:

I believe I am having a meaningful debate.

 

You are wrong about the drugs in Brave New World. I just looked it up. In fact, it's a major theme in the novel. 

You sure you read it? Ha ha.

 

https://www.shmoop.com/study-guides/literature/brave-new-world/themes/drugs-and-alcohol

 

In Brave New World, drugs aren't just pretty common; they're distributed en masse by the government. Yes, the government. So much for Just Say No, right? The drug in question here is soma, a hallucinogen described as "the perfect drug," with all the benefits (calming, surrealistic, ten-hour long highs) and none of those pesky drawbacks (you know, like brain damage). The citizens of the "World State" have been conditioned to love the drug, and they use it to escape any momentary bouts of dissatisfaction. And we mean any sense of dissatisfaction. The problem, as one character identifies, is that the citizens are essentially enslaved by the drug and turned into mindless drones.

 

So what are you arguing about Brave New World? That people are being enslaved by technology?

 

Sounds like the drugs are doing a good job of enslaving people in this novel. 

The govt distributes the drugs, but they are not forcing them on people. 

I'm suggesting that maybe people mostly enslave themselves.

 

But again, I haven't read the book ... 

 

 

Thanks for looking it up, i think that book is a classic, and if we talk about control of the masses, it's a must read.

Well, it's a boring book, no narrative genius there, but I've read it thrice, and being written in 1932, it has the character of a prophecy, or a warning. 

Don't focus on the drugs, which is just one aspect of the whole thing.

The book gives a rather clear picture of what can happen if we let technology control our lives.