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19 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I think the issue with the meaning of life is similar to the issue with free will. 
In the realm of manifest world both of them seem to exist, just like time and space seem to be real.

But I also think that there are conditions where they all just fall away. Meaning, free will, time, space become just concepts without any reality. Both conditions can be valid at the same time and are not mutually exclusive.

Personally, I still gravitate around the first, but I can also glimpse the truth in the second. It's a fascinating proposition.

I don't really agree, for example when I'm dead physically, space-time may become non-existent, but the meaning of life , and possibly the free will, may be still there.

In other words, i see space/ time as related just to the physical existence, while meaning and free will are related to the soul existence. 

I may be wrong though ????

19 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Raising children certainly gives meaning for a good chunk of your (young) life though.

 

Here's a rough summary of my belief. The only difference is that I do believe in the existence of a God.

 

https://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_existentialism.html

 

"Existentialism is a philosophy that emphasizes individual existence, freedom and choice. It is the view that humans define their own meaning in life, and try to make rational decisions despite existing in an irrational universe. It focuses on the question of human existence, and the feeling that there is no purpose or explanation at the core of existence. It holds that, as there is no God or any other transcendent force, the only way to counter this nothingness (and hence to find meaning in life) is by embracing existence."

I agree,  and i also believe in the absolute, although there's much more to discuss about the meaning of life, and even on the meaning of the word " meaning".

That said, just the other day, i was having a look at a book by A.Watts, which i used to like when i was a teen... when he says that " life has no meaning ", i immediately lose interest..if his life has no meaning, how could anything he says have any meaning?

3 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

Whether you think your life has meaning or not will depend on many factors. If, for example, you had children, then your meaning is clear - to raise your children. You can give your life meaning. Religion gives meaning - that a God loves and cares for you and you will be rewarded with an afterlife. 

 

I grew up as a Christian - studied the Bible from cover to cover.

I didn't say that " life has a meaning ", although i am inclined to think it has.

I just said that I'm trying to find a meaning, and it doesn't need to be the same meaning for everyone. 

Yes, i had children, but i never thought that the meaning of life is only raising children.

What I'm trying to say, is that we don't know for sure if life has a meaning, but one is free to think whatever he likes. 

7 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

To be honest (and a bit harsh, maybe), most people, if they stripped away their masks, would find a meaningless existence underneath. That's why people make families - search eagerly for friends - study religion and God - all to fill up their empty voids. They are trying to convince themselves that they matter and their lives have meaning.

It's a fact that the meaning of life has not yet being officially discovered, yet, searching for a meaning is not necessarily worse than thinking that there's no meaning at all.

The simple fact of learning from my mistakes, has a lot of meaning to me, for example, although i can accept other opinions. 

19 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If that is what caused me to be born to the parents I was born to, that would only confirm that I must of been a bad dude in a previous life.

I don't think so, but I'm not going to speculate on unproven theories on reincarnation. 

If we accept the theory of the cycle of multiple reincarnations though, it's much better to focus on the positives.

After all, all the wisdom we have, comes from the transformation of our suffering. 

As a personal experience, i used to be very critical of my parents when i was young, but after many years, i realized that being a parent is perhaps the most difficult job on earth. 

30 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Reminds me of this Sufi tale:

> There was once a farmer who owned a horse and had a son.

One day, his horse ran away. The neighbors came to express their concern: "Oh, that's too bad. How are you going to work the fields now?" The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

In a few days, his horse came back and brought another horse with her. Now, the neighbors were glad: "Oh, how lucky! Now you can do twice as much work as before! "The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

The next day, the farmer's son fell off the new horse and broke his leg. The neighbors were concerned again: "Now that he is incapacitated, he can't help you around, that's too bad". The farmer replied: "Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?"

Soon, the news came that a war broke out, and all the young men were required to join the army. The villagers were sad because they knew that many of the young men will not come back. The farmer's son could not be drafted because of his broken leg. His neighbors were envious: "How lucky! You get to keep you only son". The farmer replied: Good thing, Bad thing, Who knows?".

That's some wisdom !

In fact, we could discuss karma for ages, and the mysterious feeling would remain.

When investigating karma though, one should not forget something called " collective karma", which is as important as the individual karma.

In other words, it's not "by chance" that one is born in some family, in some neighborhood, in some country, and is attracted to a certain kind of people .

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Indeed, but my question was did he die young because he was a bad guy, or was it just a freak accident?

How would anyone know?

do things happen randomly?

Some people think that everything happen for a reason, other people don't, sometimes the truth is in the middle. 

Even famous masters have conflicting ideas about the laws of karma, and obviously there's not a chance to prove anything tangible. 

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

There was a discussion about karma a while back. I might have just seen a real life example.

 

Where I live, there was an evil guy who stole from me. He came across as a really great guy till he got what he wanted, then showed his true colours.

 

He died in a traffic accident.

 

I wonder if that was karma, or just stuff that happens.

Personally, i accept the theory of cause and effect ( karma), however, while trying for decades to go deep into understanding how it works, i have come to the conclusion that it's better to stay humble. 

If karma is real, it's a supernatural design, and thus mysterious in its countless aspects. 

As we can see, life sometimes seems to be unjust in many ways, and it would be unfair to judge other people's lives, basing one's opinion on a few facts. 

While agreeing that to die a violent death is not a good way to go, it's not like all the people who dies from a violent death are bad people. 

25 minutes ago, notrub said:

Consumerism is an example of Christians attempting to find peace through the acquisition of 'stuff'. A short cut not requiring meditation. 

That's a strange statement, i wonder what Christians you're talking about. 

There's not that much difference between religions or spiritual paths, if we look for the essential message, leaving out the superstitious cr*p.

If there's a dichotomy, imho, is more between spiritualism and materialism, but even then, that dichotomy doesn't really exist, as everyone has his own peculiar blend of materialistic and spiritual impulses. 

9 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

You seem to have missed the point I've been making. When talking about predatory animals we tend to think only of carnivores such as Lions, Tigers, Snakes, and so on. These are animals that are far more developed than insects, ants, microbes and bacteria, and are far more visible to us humans, so we tend to ignore the incessant predation that occurs amongst the tiny and microscopic creatures whose existence is essential for our survival.

 

All favourable conditions are favourable because the good guys eat the bad guys. Any animal or human can only be in good health as a result of the good bacteria in the biome killing and/or eating the bad bacteria, and the immune system killing, and/or eating harmful germs ...

I've got your point actually, and it's impossible not to agree. 

"Every form of life happens to destroy other forms of life" , I'm ok with that.

I was just trying to make sense of the hypothetical patterns which permeate borh the big and the small picture (microcosm and macrocosm).

In fact, the post which i was replying to, was talking about hypothetical alien forms of life, which were supposed to be more developed thanks to being "more predatory "..

Perhaps we can agree on saying that the definition of " predatory " is arbitrary. 

5 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

And my point was that no life-form can exist in a non-predatory environment, as far as I understand.

Every life-form is either directly predatory, or indirectly predatory in the sense they rely upon others (whether microbes, insects, animals, or humans) to do the killing on their behalf.

Well, that would be quite a broad definition of predatory. 

I never heard a cow, a horse, an elephant being described as predatory animals.

And it's the first time i think of a plant as a prey ???? but sorry, i can think of a plant, or a fruit, as food, but not as a prey.

Relying on favorable conditions in order to survive is not the same as being predatory .

16 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

That's an interesting concept. If one uses the broad definition of 'predatory', which includes "seeking to exploit others', then it would be difficult, and perhaps impossible, to discover any form of life which is not predatory.

 

For example, vegetarians might feel good because they don't rely upon the killing of other animals for their survival. However, they do rely upon the killing of plants, and the plants rely upon trillions of predatory microbes, ants, worms, fungi, and so on, in the soil, which provide the necessary nutrients in the soil, for the plants to grow.

 

 

Some carnivores feel good thinking that vegetarians kill plants, but there's some difference between killing plants or killing animals. 

My point was, however,  that non-predatory animals can survive predatory animals, and thus being predatory is not a pre- requisite to survival. 

11 hours ago, Acharn said:

Any intelligent entity will have evolved from a predatory animal. 

Really?

According to this reasoning, non-predatory animals would be extinct. 

6 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

The problem arises when you strip society of religion altogether and don't replace it with something more mature and adequate. A spiritual science perhaps, or scientific spirituality maybe ?

That's it.

The way i see it, most people nowadays are falling into the abyss of materialism, but I'd guess this is another necessary step of spiritual development, and yes, eventually the apparently conflicting science and spirituality may become one.

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

There will always be a crosspoint where it is going from healthy to unhealthy 

 

You make many good points, and every one of them would deserve a fine discussion. 

But i whole-heartedly agree on this final statement. 

That's why i think that it's fair to have high ideals, but we should avoid to become fanatics. 

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

I think that religion, as it is structured today, is more detrimental than beneficial to people's...

There's common sense in what you say, although there are dozens of hairs to split. 

I'd like to say clear though,  that when i say " religion", i mean the best part of it, which some call

" spirituality " , and in other words is the relentless search for what is truly good and true, for oneself and for all inhabitants of this planet.

( inhabitants of other planets, for the moment, will have to help themselves)

It's obvious though that " religion " has another meaning to you. Yes, some aspects of organized religion hopefully will soon disappear. 

Perhaps religion has a different meaning for every single person, even if now it's trendy to label it " rubbish " without a 2nd thought. 

So we can possibly agree that language is evolving, words change their meaning, and it's very easy to get confused.

8 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I doubt anyone actually knew their real birth date.

Yep, at that time,  just a few priests and monks were able to read and write, and the horses were the fastest transportation, go figure ???? 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I wasn't trying to say that religion is negative. I was just saying that if we ain't religious it doesn't make any difference.

Sorry for missing your point completely. 

Of course i agree with your statement, it's just common sense. 

7 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Is it a coincidence that 2 of the main characters in the Bible had their birthdays around the time of each solstice and we only celebrate these?

Why don't we celebrate Mother Mary's birthday?

No, it's not a coincidence. 

Religious holidays are always associated with the cycle of the natural season. 

Easter in spring, Halloween in autumn etc.

In Thailand too, major holidays and festivals in fact are celebrations for the change of the seasons. 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Wouldn't make any difference to some believers, as we ain't necessarily religious.

Perhaps it's just me, but i don't necessarily associate

" religion/religious " with something negative.

However, i am aware of the majority of western people thinking different, associating religion with ignorance, gullibility, and even pure evil. 

.. i don't see the world getting any better just because people don't believe religion. 

In other words, i see positive aspects in religion in general, not just the negative. 

6 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

No. Happy for people to think their way. Funny though how over time people are becoming much more agnostic and atheist yet traditions continue for all. Some stage maybe let Christians celebrate Christmas and the rest of us can get a day off for some other reason e.g. call it Summer solstice in Australia. Fine if it stays how it is but who knows in the future. 

 

Lol, maybe you just need more holidays ! 

Yep, holidays are good, and i agree on the summer and winter solstice holidays ! 

Yes, giving the increasing numbers of agnostics, it may be that some holidays will change names, but i would not lose any sleep over it.

20 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I think there's a lot of believers who see the world through christian or new age spirituality or whatever eyes and see atheists or agnostics as an anomoly, or, because they don't believe, that they are kind of a nothing. He made the point that if there is Easter and Christmas for all why not a day to celebrate or consider a life from the point of view of someone who doesn't believe there is this other thing - maybe a day to consider what life might be like if what you see is what you get.  Not probably needed in Australia as it is a bit like that now but the United States and Thailand may benefit. 

Everyone is already free to celebrate what they like, but i am starting to think that you'd be happier if religion, or belief in supernatural, was banned ???? 

Is that a recipe for a better society? I have serious doubts.