thailoht

Some people have mentioned the Chevy Trailblazer ,, whilst it shares chassis and body with Isuzu the engines are completely different ,,,

The fortuner i have had as a company car for 3 years has had problems with Turbo failing twice ,, autobox faliure , and very high fuel consumption , i dont need it now as i have recently changed jobs ,, been using my Mia Nois Mazda 2 which is pleasant little car but it has problems under warranty with suspension failiure ,, seems a common issue with Mazdas ?????? If i can ride a motorcycle, its my preference .

Be interesting to see when the new MU-X we ordered turns up ,, They say January ????

.... interesting indeed!

I take it you called around to see if any dealerships have MU-X models onsite for sale? If going that route comes up short, isn't there a (big?) auto show in Bkk next week? If that proves to be true, those shows are infamously known for pulling all sorts of auto deals out of the hat and even to make cars miraculously appear for new customers when no other dealer could!

Still not sure

I have also been seriously considering the Nissan Almera. Only about 50k more than the Mitsubishi Attrage. It seems like a sturdier vehicle and apparently more spacious (although some claim that is because the seats are smaller)

But it doesn't have ABS (in the manual gear edition) and some guys on the Nissan thread are staying it sometimes goes into a skid when braking (very disconcerting for the wife n kid).

I just can't see why i would pay 50k more for it.

I think the Attrage may still win it.

I hear ya' .... unlike back home where it always came down to which vehicle came with the 'most' options and specs that appealed to the buyer, in this car market, it seems to really come down to which vehicle has the least number of negatives!

Some very informative comparisons! Thanks guys!

Have you made a decision yet?

The charts linked above are all based on flywheel HP, in a lab.

I see what you're trying to achieve, but really you have to consider the package, and technically the differences are so small you really just should base your decision on features, styling and economics. All these manufacturers are designing and manufacturing to the exact same price point, and making the same basic compromises. All have good engineers, and good bean counters too

Don't get me wrong: You are absolutely correct and I agree with you wholeheartedly, (after all, 'You 'dah man!', as we would say back home).

My only dog in all of this is that in this growing world of technology and information, it's far better 'to know' something than not to - let's complete this package of engine performance ratings and post it for all to see!.

We now have the first part of the engine performance ratings, if we can come across a second chart that lists the FE(?), Horse Power and Torque of the engines (listed above) while installed in their most popular vehicle models, it can serve as a technical point of reference for those who may want to make accurate comparisons: those in the market to buy an auto as well as posters in this forum.

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

Indeed, but what those charts don't show is real world performance, The reality of that is that there really isn't much between the top-spec models once you get behind the wheel. Small differences yes, big standouts, no.

This is more than likely true and also my 'opinion', but I am for letting the facts themselves speak by trying to establish is a definitive point of reference that can be use to compare the performance of different diesel engines.

In the two charts referred to above, we have the performance rate data of each individual class of 'engines-on-the-stand in a laboratory' - or on a professional dyno(?)

This lets everyone see the raw, 'unadulterated' potential of each engine - w/o the burden of a vehicle body - an absolute 'base'.

Now, all that is needed is a chart that lists the Horse Power and Torque ratings of the various SUV and pickup models that have been tested (under as close as possible 'Real World' conditions), with all of the above engines. This will let the consumer compare both, more of the 'Real World' performance ratings as well as to the efficiency of each model (when compared to their respective engine in the two charts above).

Thailoht, Don't know if you have already seen this, but you may find some of what you seek at the following old post: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/505429-2012-model-pickup-trucks/

Thanx mahk-mahk!

Maybe (?) Post #19 in the above link can serve as a factual point of reference for engine performance statistics!

The Toyota 3.0L is more fuel efficient on the highway, the Isuzu 3.0L more fuel efficient around town. In normal mixed use, they will be about the same.

Curious what problems you've experienced with your Fortuner though - the only common issue I know of was front discs warping on pre-2008 models.

While we are on the subject, is it possible for you to locate and post mfg. 2.xL and 3.xL diesel engine data to compare:

1) Each engine's laboratory specs (while not attached to a vehicle).

2) Each engine's specs per model: pickup truck, SUV and saloon.

A list such as this can serve as a base of reference for LOS auto consumers and keep them that much more informed.

IMHO:

Very informative comparisons!

... reminds me of someone else who had a capital 'O' in their moniker!

i have ordered a new MUX 3 litre auto 2wd in The dark bronze metallic , delivery january ,,,tried the 2.5l but it was underpowered ,,, no cruise control which is sad but overall very impressed , ride is firm but on crappy Thai roads it eats them up much nicer than the old fortuner and higher too ,

my wife loves Isuzu's and she drives it 90% of the time , i prefer motorcycles ,

last isuzu pickup i had did 568,000k lasted 17 years and still sold for 150k to an issan farmer , my Fortuner has been unreliable and not very fuel efficient ,, Isuzu should be better on those 2 scores

Congratulations on your new car purchase!

Without going through the repetitive acknowledgement process stating that opinions are subjective and based on ones personal preferences

...this one sure still sounds sweet!

Mitsubishi also builds quality and reliable vehicles, especially their LOS pick up and SUV models and the 3 car models our family have owned.

I'm not sure how much power transfer would differ between the Hilux and Ranger. The gearing is similar and the manual and auto transmissions designs are not too different apart from Ford using 6 speeds which should help them. Would be interesting to see how close dyno results are to the spec sheet claims.

Toyota and Isuzu's power transfer would not have be much better to keep pace with the Ranger because the 2.2L Ranger is as Fat as it's 3.2L cousin. The Toyota ends up with a better power to weight ratio because the Ford 2.2L Engine has 6hp and 30Nm more than the Toyota 2.5L but it has to drag around an extra 200 - 250kg. The Toyota engine does runs out of puff earlier but that is probably still above the 120km/h point.

Breaking some (technical) eggs and comparing apples to apples!

I drive the New Ranger now,so I just simply compare this to the MU-X and the 2.2L Ranger is smoother and seems to have no less power that this 3.0L Isuzu.Of course the MU-X feels 'lighter' and 'softer',but that's about it....

...and I get about 10.5-11.5 km/L in the city,so this average score of 8.2 is not impressive(well,it's a test vehicle,so people probably drive harder),but still I'm not impressed at all....will check the TrailBlazer( the new version) and see how that one will compare engine wise,but the interior is similar,still maybe at least different seat colors....I do like the dashboard thou .The new Ford Everest should be much better I think and if it will come with the 3.2L,than it should be an easy choice...but I will probably wait till the new generation Toyota and Mitsubishi arrive...as IMHO mention,that should be something 'really' new...I hope .

That Ranger has always been at the top of my 'Pickup Truck' list, too - I have yet to hear one negative performance comment about it!

I think I would like that new 4WD Wildtrack!

I think the mfg are dumbing down .... I mean, 'down sizing' their 'Next Generations'. My personal preference happens to be for size and space, so I bought last year - the last year of the 'Big Boys' in this class.

.... as for the 3.0L Isuzu, under the same driving conditions, it won't get 8.6 km/L and, in fact, you may learn that the Isuzu SUV 3.0L with 4WD, 1800 kg, records better FE than 10.5 - 11.5 km/L.

The 8.6 km/L fuel avg you saw on the MU-X was probably the result of many unknown factors: Could it have been driven in heavy stop-and-go traffic by a (several?) lunchtime test driver(s)? Was the vehicle idling for an extra ordinary length of time while sales-personnel (or service people?) were performing their duties, etc.?

Got a test in MU-X today and I'm disappointed...the interior looks good,except for this light gray color of the leather seats....they had some plastic covers on them,but the driver seat plastic was ripped and the leather was already showing dirt on it...

The trunk is really small,if all the seats are in use....when you fold the last row,it opens up a bit,but....

Driving was OK except for the 'clanking' noise with every attempt to accelerate...and leaning sideways on curves...and it showed only 8.2km/L at the average....so No,Thanks...not for me

I just happened to sit in a Pajero Sport on display at the mall today, too. It's interior space isn't even that of the MU-X!! It's trunk space even seemed to be smaller (if the same) than the MU-X ... and the MU-X (and Pajero Sport?) are larger and than the Fortuner!!

The point is, is that auto consumers in SUV class (< THB1.5 mil) in the LOS market, have to basically choose a vehicle with the 'least' number of negatives that satisfy their individual preferences.

.... but, really, what bearing (if any??) would the 8.2 km/L avg you happened to see displayed on the MU-X, (at the time you were there), have on the overall impression of the vehicle?

I agree used truck prices have always been absurdly high due to the demand I guess but I still reckon a decrease in value of around 25% in the OP's case or even worse as in my case (albeit quoted by a dealer of course) in such a short time is equally absurd. BTW, apologies as I meant to type "a loss of 310 k" in my earlier post but this is still 60%!...

Markets are fickle - always foreseen variables at play. Only time will tell if today's market reality is just a 'hiccup' or will it be a scary roller coaster ride...

...now, if only this buyers phenomenon would hurry up and move into the real estate market!

I'm no expert either but have bought quite a few new motors here over the years and of course always expect to take a knock financialy if selling early. I bought a new Fiesta on finance at the beginning of this year however my situation changed soon after plus I realised I missed my truck too much so asked a few local dealers what it would be worth to them.

I was staggered when told 450 k baht, which would have been a loss of 360 k over just 5 months! I'm not sure if this amount of depreciation is a new trend or simply a reflection on Ford or small cars in particular?

You're always gonna take a hit if you sell it to a dealer, they have to make a profit you know.

yes I realise that, I've just been lazy I guess but this 'hit' was too big to take for me. Any idea as to what profit margin or % the dealers expect to make?

Sadly, you just happen to be entering the used car market here in LOS at a time it's making a (well deserved - IMHO, of course!) correction from the years of absurdly high prices of the sellers market it had been for too long.

Small update: Dash Camera in my BT-50

Wednesday I was in an accident with a Thai on a motorbike that turned in front of me. He hit the side of my truck with his handle bar and caught a finger in the fender well causing the loss of one finger. Both parties made the their statements to the police about what happen. My wife said I must go visit him and take him a gift. As nervous as I was about this, I went and paid my respects to see him. During our visit and inspecting his wounded hand missing that is now missing one little finger. I asked him if he wanted to see pictures from the accident, he replied no. He then made the point he was not riding his motorbike he had already parked on the side of road. His wife jumped in and said yes he wasn't riding he was parked on the side of road. My Thai friend who went with me and had seen the video dozens of times already said excuse me sir but my friends truck has a camera. He again said I do not care and stopped talking. The room went silent. So we politely excused ourselves and gave them our gift and left. My friend left 4 snap shots from the video with them to look at later. The video clearly shows him riding his motorbike not parked and turning right in front of my truck without signaling or looking first. We just upset his retirement plan!

Sorry to hear about your road accident .... this post should convince everyone of the benefits of having a dash cam!

Thanks for sharing this experience!

^^^@Thailoht, You've summed up the MUX pretty well, but I'm not sold. I will wait for the new Tuna and Everest, and thanks to IMHO for setting us straight on the (non revolutionary, not even - evolutionary) engine. Seems like Isuzu and Toyota both have gotten lazy in Thailand thinking the sheep will automatically buy repackaged old tech in new clothing. Meanwhile, we are going forward at the auto show and ordering a Ford Ecosport for another family member, though not sure yet whether it will be the 1.0L, 1.5, or diesel auto.... I'll let you all know...

You have summed up beautifully, this, the LOS auto market in which we find ourselves!

We can only select from the models they choose to send to the dealerships.

Talking about 'Grin and Bear it!' TIT, baby!

NEW Isuzu MU-X 1,014,000 1,401,000 4

- 3.0 VGS 4WD DVD NAVI

- 3.0 VGS 2WD DVD NAVI

- 2.5 VGS 2WD DVD

- 2.5 VGS 2WD CD

That really is a very nice looking vehicle, and the prices are very reasonable, seem much cheaper than the Tuna or new Everest. I think this one is a game changer for Isuzu. First time I have ever seen something they make in Thailand that I would own.

On to my second new Isuzu 3.0 ltr turbo .. The New model has much more power, more quiet and much better fuel efficiency ...As for petrol versus diesel ..you can keep your petrol cars ! PS .. God invented Car stereos the same day He invented a Diesel Engine !! So crank it up !! ENJOY ! alt=thumbsup.gif width=25 height=19>

IMHO, on 17 Nov 2013 - 12:50, said:

Yes, the 3.0L in the MU-X/D-Max is the same engine that's been going into D-Max's since 2004 (4JJ1-TC) Back then it made 144HP, in 2006 it was upgraded to 163HP (4JJ1-TCX), and in 2011 upgraded to 177HP (4JJ1-TC iTEQ). The extra HP in each revision has come from updates to the commonrail system, injectors and turbo - all of which you mess with as soon as you start tuning

The 4JJ1-TCX wasn't detuned - the get the extra 14HP in 2011 it took a revised turbo design, new injectors and updated commonrail system. They also updated the head design to improve FE a couple of percent, and some tweaks to try and make it a little less noisy.

There hasn't been any revisions since 2011.

The '2nd Generation' MU-X is a redesigned interior/exterior body and chassis with the same basic power plant.

Thanks for all the input guys! I think I've decided to get the Everest even though it's used, due to the low miles and forung owner. He just emailed me the complete service records. For a 7 seater I can't find a better deal. I really just wanted to make sure the parts wouldn't be through the roof expensive when it needs them. Anyway, thanks for chiming in!!!

Congratulations!

Overall, it really is a pretty good deal! I believe it has 4 airbags - that's 2 more than a lot of these newer vehicles!

Enjoy!

I have a family of 4 and we would like 2 more children so I need a 7 seater. The Everest I am looking at is a 2007 2.5 litre with 73000 kilometers and is THB 505,000. It is owned by a farang. To get a 7 seater new starts me at a million baht.

(In attempt to redirect everyone's focus ) ...... OP, how have things turned out for you in this situation? Have you looked over the Everest and taken it for a drive? What have you decided?

Cracked it, I can hardly believe that I got an email and a call from Mitsubishi, if you buy a 2013 model or any of the coming models (2014 and 15) the gps is not included on any Mitsubishi cars/trucks, it will be an optional extra. The price? A whopping 14100 b, think I'll go for a garmin on the windscreen from big C, you know what your paying for, get the best one for about 10000.

Nice to hear that it's resolved.

Only advice GPS wise, buy one with Free Lifetime Maps update and maybe one with support for Driving Recorders

I love my Garmin, look here for current models from the Nuvi series

http://www.gpssociety.com/EN/Pages/product.aspx

This one any good?

nuvi 2467 LM

Price 6,490 Baht

It's got lifetime maps update

Here is a chart that compares the features between your 2467 LM and MJCM's 2575 model:

http://www.gpssociety.com/EN/Pages/productcomparison2.aspx?items=23,12&Category=PND

Have the same problem....have no answer either....am reading this post with interest and await all the TV experts.

Cracked it, I can hardly believe that I got an email and a call from Mitsubishi, if you buy a 2013 model or any of the coming models (2014 and 15) the gps is not included on any Mitsubishi cars/trucks, it will be an optional extra. The price? A whopping 14100 b, think I'll go for a garmin on the windscreen from big C, you know what your paying for, get the best one for about 10000.

This sounds very strange.

If the dealership/Mitsubishi corp 'sold' you GPS function and both of you 'paid' for it, it would seem that it is Mitsubishi that is responsible to deliver the GPS to their paying customers ..... The solution lies with corporate.

GPS-Navi systems generally are installed on a SD card - not USB.

I think you should post exactly what both of your dealerships say about the GPS function in your vehicles.

It's is on USB actually.The GPS wasn't even mentioned when I bought the car, I was thinking about the motor and other more practical things, the words "GPS included" was never mentioned, I assumed it would be on the car because there is an GPS icon in the media center, now I know, but I would have preferred if the local dealer actually tried to sell me one even if I wouldn't have bought it. I talked to the Mitsubishi head office, they even checked the chassis no. they told me that it's not included. It's not the end of the world, thanks for the input.

It's good to hear that it has been quickly resolved.

Sales-people: They are a slippery lot, they are!

This sounds very strange.

If the dealership/Mitsubishi corp 'sold' you GPS function and both of you 'paid' for it, it would seem that it is Mitsubishi that is responsible to deliver the GPS to their paying customers ..... The solution lies with corporate.

GPS-Navi systems generally are installed on a SD card - not USB.

I think you should post exactly what both of your dealerships say about the GPS function in your vehicles.

Have the same problem....have no answer either....am reading this post with interest and await all the TV experts.

This sounds very strange.

If the dealership/Mitsubishi corp 'sold' you GPS function and both of you 'paid' for it, it would seem that it is Mitsubishi that is responsible to deliver the GPS to their paying customers ..... The solution lies with corporate.

GPS nav systems generally are installed on a SD card - not USB.

I think you should post exactly what both of your dealerships say about the GPS function in your vehicles.

Have the same problem....have no answer either....am reading this post with interest and await all the TV experts.

This sounds very strange.

If the dealership/Mitsubishi corp 'sold' you GPS function and both of you 'paid' for it, it would seem that it is Mitsubishi that is responsible to deliver the GPS to their paying customers ..... The solution lies with corporate.

GPS nav systems generally are installed on a SD card - not USB.

I think you should post exactly what both of your dealerships say about the GPS function in your vehicles.