Richard4849

And Thailand's transformation has been a miracle when you compare it to Laos, Cambodia, and Burma -- who were all more or less at the same level of development 40 years ago.

So?

You're comparing Thailand to 3 countries who went through nearly 5 decades of internecine civil wars and wars involving colonial powers.

Are you serious? Really..?

This belief that Thailand avoided all of this by the good graces of being "better" and not just incredibly lucky is one of the most fabricated pieces of cultural dogma to come out of the country.

Not ignoring it -- every country has different circumstances.

Thais feel quite good about their place in the world, with good reason. No one starves to death here, education and health care are free, literacy rates are low, and people are happy.

They are surrounded by neighbors who don't have it nearly as well off -- even Malaysia is off the flakiness scale.

Not everyone can be at the top of the class, but people can at least be happy to be who they are.

You haven't done much talking to Koreans if you think they're level-headed, non-aggressive, and don't think they're better than everyone else.

I get burnt out of any place if I have to stay too long without a break, but I haven't found anywhere I wanted to base myself more.

I have a nice break at least every two to three months to keep me sane.

The government of Thailand was no more corrupt than the government of South Korea well into the 90's, don't forget.

The difference is that Korea was already planning and laying down the foundation for a democratic country in the late 1980's while it was shifting from a military dictatorship. They managed to control corruption in civil service in the early 90's which greatly benefited the growing middle class.

Corruption is a cancer and I fear a lot of the root causes for it in Thailand are cultural.

Precisely. For all the above comparisons between the two countries, the cultures are the two almost couldn't be further apart.

Korea's transformation has been a miracle. Taiwan's and Singapore's close behind.

And Thailand's transformation has been a miracle when you compare it to Laos, Cambodia, and Burma -- who were all more or less at the same level of development 40 years ago.

So?

3, 2, 1...

And Korea had a brutal dictatorship which for much of that 'growth' period led the way on things.

Funny what a not so benevolent dictatorship can bring about in economic growth terms?

It was interventionalist economics at its most extreme and saw its comeuppance during the Asian financial crisis. The fall out took a good half decade to digest and I suggest that if you deal with Korean companies they can be as dysfunctional as any.

As for Thailand relying on Natural resources - so what? A good economist would say that this is exploiting a comparative advantage, so why not use it?

Australia, NZ, Brazil and South Africa are other examples of countries doing this, but I don't see you complaining about them?

As for your other examples (eg R&D) are you suggesting that it is somehow more efficient to replicate that in Thailand rather than have it concentrated elsewhere?

Sure, more can be done on the education side, but you obviously don't work with the calibre of Thai people that I do. Maybe you wouldn't be so dismissive of them especially I dare say they'd wipe the floor intellectually with most people on this forum.

+1

The Thais are also a LOT happier than the Koreans, who have one of the highest suicide rates in the world.

American troops stationed in Korea since 1950?

American expenditures in Korea since 1950?

American expenditures on Korean war?

America spent a lot of money building up Thailand as a bulwark against communism and even put bases down as it did Korea. The problem was that a lot of it was pilfered by the corrupt political elite of that era. Sound familiar?

I can mention a lot about specific economic cash injections and political consequences including the political purges in the turbulent 70's but for good reasons i'm not going into that. I'm sure if you are real interested in comparing the experiences of Thailand and Korea in the cold war you can do your own research.

The government of Thailand was no more corrupt than the government of South Korea well into the 90's, don't forget.

Is this self congratulatory "look how dumb the locals are" thread still running??

No one is saying that Thai people are inherently stupid but that there is certainly a culture that stifles creative thought and progress which includes fields like political science, science, and even medicine. With just the way the law is structured and applied shows serious issues with the way the social contract and legal philosophy is being interpreted by a large majority of people. There's a significant lack of education which impedes all tiers of society. Just look at some of the suggestions by the science ministry on how to stop flooding as an example of this group think.

Yes, we all know how many robotic mop championships and Irish literary championships little 15 year old wealthy Thai kids can win but let's see how that translates into real world application.

Where is Thailand's Samsung or Apple? Where are the real astrophysicists? The thinkers..the Carl Sagans, the Oppenheimers? The Feynmans..? Nobel prize winners?

*crickets chirp*

This is actually quite a good post.

It's true, but a bit obvious.

When you're talking about the kinds of people this poster is, there are few that come from anywhere but the US, Western Europe, Australia, and maybe Japan and Israel.

Much talk has been made of Singapore. Yet even Singapore hasn't produced a Carl Sagan, Oppenheimer, Feynman, Nobel prize winner, or astrophysicist of note either. At least none that I can name. South Korea hasn't produced a Nobel prize winner either (except for a Peace prize for Kim Dae-jung in 2000).

Korea

India

Lebanon

Not sure of the distances of each

Lebanon? A candidate for "nearest" snow? And Thai people don't know their geography?

We do have snow here, swim in the Med and 2 hours later be skiing.

but getting a visa for a Thai will be a challenge............

I know you have snow there...but it's not exactly close to Thailand!

True. Thailand is in a much stronger financial position right now than many of the countries we call home are.

just been lookin at flights...it seems air asia dont fly to Korea so whats the best way to get there? and also the Harbin ice festival in China fits in with my time, what airport is best to fly too to get there........will she be ok to travel to any of these without visa restrictions?

Everyone needs a visa for China (including you), but it 's just a matter of paying the fee and getting a travel agent to put the application in. No hassles at all.

Russia was always a developed country, regardless of how much the communist system bankrupted the economy. Completely different situation.

What a silly thing to say.

Stalin dragged Russia from an basic agricultural society into an advanced industrial society in 1 generation.

An amazing feat by anyones standards

One wonders about the western education system that fails to teach basic history.

Russia was a center for the arts, education, and culture long before Stalin arrived.

The best thing about speaking Thai is knowing that NOT everyone is talking about you behind your back. Contrary to what you might think, the farang is not always the topic of village small talk.

Is speaking Thai better than speaking Yiddish?

Don't get it...

The best thing about speaking Thai is knowing that NOT everyone is talking about you behind your back. Contrary to what you might think, the farang is not always the topic of village small talk.

OK, OK. Russia blah blah blah.

Their education system was in place long before the Bolshevik Revolution and continued through all those years of pogroms, etc.

When it comes to great technological and creative leaps, you are not going to find many coming out of countries that are at Thailand's stage of development or below.

This should not come as a surprise, surely?

If you're looking for a Samsung or Apple, you won't find it in Thailand. Thailand is still a developing country. I can't recall a huge technological or creative stride coming out of a country that was not yet developed, but I'm sure someone will be able to point to one.

The USSR produced lots of innovation (especially in rocket science and astrophysics) despite being an economy and population on the fringes during most of its existence. It has everything to do with culture and its effects on education.

Russia was always a developed country, regardless of how much the communist system bankrupted the economy. Completely different situation.

Is this self congratulatory "look how dumb the locals are" thread still running??

No one is saying that Thai people are inherently stupid but that there is certainly a culture that stifles creative thought and progress which includes fields like political science, science, and even medicine. With just the way the law is structured and applied shows serious issues with the way the social contract and legal philosophy is being interpreted by a large majority of people. There's a significant lack of education which impedes all tiers of society. Just look at some of the suggestions by the science ministry on how to stop flooding as an example of this group think.

Yes, we all know how many robotic mop championships and Irish literary championships little 15 year old wealthy Thai kids can win but let's see how that translates into real world application.

Where is Thailand's Samsung or Apple? Where are the real astrophysicists? The thinkers..the Carl Sagans, the Oppenheimers? The Feynmans..? Nobel prize winners?

*crickets chirp*

If you're looking for a Samsung or Apple, you won't find it in Thailand. Thailand is still a developing country. I can't recall a huge technological or creative stride coming out of a country that was not yet developed, but I'm sure someone will be able to point to one.

Will not, cannot speak English, has no desire to learn

This is Thailand; how's your Thai coming along?

So you're suggesting that learning a language which enables them to communicate with people from outside their country borders is a waste of time for their future?

No, but it sounded like you were unable to communicate with them in their own tongue in their own country -- and blaming them for it.

Get out of the village. You can't outweigh the environment.

I think you have hit it on the head.

+1 spot on.

jb1

Seriously, you think this is a village problem? I see the same crap in the cities here.

This is true.

It happens everywhere when you willingly surround yourself by uneducated, uninteresting bumpkins -- whether in the city or the country.

You have chosen to be in the environment you are in; your kids are going to be a product of that environment.

You need to find a healthier, more stimulating one.

...Just stop putting words in other people's mouths and stay on topic (please).

Pots and kettles.

Do Thai people learn about English idiom in their classes?

SC

They're taught it; whether or not they remember it or not is another thing. Your point?

Do yourself a favor and look up "self-made", which is what we're talking about.

We're talking about people who came from nothing and ended up rich by being smart and ambitious.

The people you are mentioning from that Forbes list are the very same people mentioned in that book. The Thaibev group, CP, etc.. are all talked about. Anyways, this isn't worth arguing about when there's a book talking about this very subject full of actual facts and economic data to back it up. I'm not going to C&P entire sections from it to prove a point.

You can plug your ears up and keep talking about how things are egalitarian and meritocratic here when it's the furthest thing from the truth.

No one (at least not me), claimed any such thing. You're making things up.

My only contention were that there are LOTS of examples of "self-made" baht billionaires who did not come from lofty hi-so backgrounds.

I have not read the book you are referring to, but I have read "Sons of the Yellow Emperor" -- so I do know something about the Chinese diaspora.

If for some reason you want to discount the example of Charoen as "self-made" -- then fine. We still have Tan, Chalerm, Vikrom and any number of others.

Just stop putting words in other people's mouths and stay on topic (please).

I know Oishi is part if ThaiBev. Tan, the founder, sold it to them a few years ago fir hundreds of millions if dollars. Tan is 100% self-made. Started selling newspapers at a provincial bus station.

Charoen is also 100% self-made. Just a working class Chinatown kid who made it big.

Add Vikrom Kromadit to the list.

Do some reading up and educate yourself.

Actually, you're the uneducated one but that's fine a lot of people don't understand how the cultural and political roles play into business here. You're used to how it is in the western world and the self made "bootstraps" story just isn't how it seems to be on the surface in SE Asia. Most people that survive and prosper in business here are connected.

Do yourself a favor and look up the book I mentioned. It goes into extraordinary academic detail in how these people amassed fortunes in SE Asia.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=asian+godfathers&x=0&y=0

Do yourself a favor and look up "self-made", which is what we're talking about.

We're talking about people who came from nothing and ended up rich by being smart and ambitious.

How about Tan the Oishi guy?

Charoen the whiskey guy?

How many do you need?

Are you talking about the owner of Thaibev? Because that sure as hell isn't a "self made" conglomerate. Plus Oishi is owned by Thaibev now.

The other Charoen is the C.P. group and that is a prime example of what an agricultural monopoly looks like.

I know Oishi is part if ThaiBev. Tan, the founder, sold it to them a few years ago fir hundreds of millions if dollars. Tan is 100% self-made. Started selling newspapers at a provincial bus station.

Charoen is also 100% self-made. Just a working class Chinatown kid who made it big.

Add Vikrom Kromadit to the list.

Do some reading up and educate yourself.

Not rare. Many of the wealthiest people in Thailand are self-made.

Ok, name some besides the Red Bull guy (who is the rare exception.) Most of them came from wealth or were connected to wealthy families. All the owners of the big brands and agricultural businesses came from money, had titles, or high connections.

The book I mentioned before goes through the who's who list of Thailand's billionaires and talks specifically about how they obtained their wealth. Most of them made it through connections or special government concessions based on legacy.

You have no idea what you are talking about this has all been well documented.

How about Tan the Oishi guy?

Charoen the whiskey guy?

How many do you need?

There are no self-made millionaires in Thailand? Interesting theory. But unfortunately one that is pure <deleted>.

Read what I said again. I didn't say they didn't exist it's just that the people creating world brands and innovative technology such as in Apple, Microsoft, etc.. aren't here in Thailand. Millionaires are everywhere around the world. Most of Thailand's rich got their wealth through connections and collecting corruption money aka. economic rents through family networks. That stifles competition and creativity when a small number of families owns most industry. Look at C.P. as an example of how this works here in Thailand.

There's a very tiny number of people who have managed to do it on their own but that is the rare exception.

I recommend a book called Asian Godfathers if you want to know how corrupt SE Asia is. The "self made" people are extremely rare.

Not rare. Many of the wealthiest people in Thailand are self-made.