Richard4849

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it *deleted* off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

It didnt get receipted and money went to his pocket....

Thanks for clearing that up.

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

Yes it's legal for the police officer to take your license. That's how it's done here. You get a ticket. He takes your license. You show up at the cop shop with the ticket, pay for the ticket, and get your license back.

It's really very simple.

Why don't they do it like other countries do it? Uh...HTF am I supposed to know? If I asked "why don't they do it here like they do it at home" about everything, I'd be asking that question all day (I'd also be asking myself the question why I was living in Thailand if I wanted it to be exactly like home?).

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee? To keep everyone happy, I suppose. Driver is happy he's getting off cheap, cop is happy he's getting to pocket some cash.

It just doesn't seem to occur to many people that corruption on the part of traffic cops might go away if people quit offering them cash for a benefit in return.

Actually as far as i'm aware it is not a legal requirement to hand over your licence and there is nothing in the statute books saying that you should.. in fact i believe there is one stating that you should carry your licence with you at all times while driving.... You cant do that if the copper has your licence....so????

The ticket you are given in exchange for your license can be used as a substitute until you pay the fine and get your actual license back.

You didn't answer the question.

You're caught doing something wrong.

Do you offer bribe to save yourself some time and money? Or do you take a stand against corruption?

Your silence is telling me the answer...

Frankly, I'm outraged.

I must say I really dislike you already.

Like it's a big secret that corruption is an everyday event here, and makes this country seem like a joke.

And you just continue this pointless argument.

Seems like you got some ego problems...

And it seems like you got some comprehension problems.

Corruption is an everyday event here. Absolutely agreed, and no secret whatsoever. Did I imply that it was?

Also not a secret is that what's being called "corruption" in this thread is actually bribery by the driver of the cop.

It's 100% optional. You don't like it, you don't have to do it.

Bribery is one thing; extortion is another.

Corruption is one thing; tea money paid voluntarily to obtain a benefit (a cheaper fine and not having to bother to go to the station) is another.

Frankly, I don't care if you like me or not. If you want to argue any of the above points, though, feel free to engage in a civi discussion.

It doesn't matter if you don't like corruption.

If you try to swim against the currents here you'll just get swept away. Change comes from within and the powers that be in Thailand neither have the intellectual or moral incentives to change things for the positive. They are content to wade in their exclusive government contracts and strongman tactics. That's how it is here and always will be. There's no real leadership when everyone is out for themselves.

When in Rome..

It goes both ways.

Traffic corruption could be ended in one of two ways: the cops stop taking bribes or drivers stop offering bribes.

Neither is going to happen any time soon, so do what you want.

I just think it's more than a little hypocritical to whinge about corruption out one side of your face while offering a bribe to a cop out the other.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks so.

I remember when it was under 40THB to 1 GBP, and don't seem to recall a shortage of Brits here then.

I remember that too. I also remember how much cheaper Thailand was then.

Exactly !!! as SC says 'swings and roundabouts etc '

Well, yeah...that was 15 years ago. Even at a modest rate of inflation you could expect many things to have doubled in price since then.

But lots of things have risen only modestly in hard currency terms, and some have even gone down.

I paid 150 baht an hour for Thai massage in 1996 -- that was $6 then. I pay 100 baht an hour now ($3.30).

A can of Coke at the 7-11 was 10 baht then ($0.40), and it's 13 baht now ($0.43).

Flag fall in taxis was 35 baht then ($1.40), and remains unchanged today ($1.17).

Fried rice from a street stall was 15 baht then ($0.60), and it's 30 baht now ($1).

I'm having a hard time coming up with anything that's doubled in price in $ or GBP terms in the past 15 years, except maybe for hotel rooms that were denominated in dollars then and are still denominated in dollars now.

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

Richard....A couple of Quick one's for you. Is it legal for the Police officer to take your licence?

Why don't they just give you the ticket and you pay the fine later by post or whatever. like most other countries?

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee?

Yes it's legal for the police officer to take your license. That's how it's done here. You get a ticket. He takes your license. You show up at the cop shop with the ticket, pay for the ticket, and get your license back.

It's really very simple.

Why don't they do it like other countries do it? Uh...HTF am I supposed to know? If I asked "why don't they do it here like they do it at home" about everything, I'd be asking that question all day (I'd also be asking myself the question why I was living in Thailand if I wanted it to be exactly like home?).

Why is the ticket more than the induced fee? To keep everyone happy, I suppose. Driver is happy he's getting off cheap, cop is happy he's getting to pocket some cash.

It just doesn't seem to occur to many people that corruption on the part of traffic cops might go away if people quit offering them cash for a benefit in return.

To Richard Somchai. Cant reply directly too many quotes.

Sorry is this an argument. I thought it was a discussion? It is a no win situation as you should know, whether you pay to nice police man on the spot or go to the station. I usually ask for a ticket, but that's just me.

Usually?

So sometimes you choose to bribe a police officer -- a crime in itself -- and thus participate in and propagate the corruption that's tearing Thailand apart.

Thank you for being truthful. You've told us all we need to know about why corruption will never go away in this country.

You didn't answer the question.

You're caught doing something wrong.

Do you offer bribe to save yourself some time and money? Or do you take a stand against corruption?

Your silence is telling me the answer...

Frankly, I'm outraged.

They are SAVING money by paying bribes. How thick are you, Rick? As a brick?

Scenario 1 (no corruption): you commit a traffic infraction, are issued a ticket, have your license taken away and have to retrieve it at the police station after paying a 500 baht fine. You get black marks applied to your record which accumulate and could eventually mean that your license is suspended.

Scenario 2 (with corruption): you commit a traffic infraction, palm the cop a couple red kings, and are on your merry way.

I don't know how to make it clearer for you, Ricardo. Every Thai I know would be outraged if he WEREN'T allowed to pay a bribe that would save him time and money.

I can get out some crayolas and make a picture for you, if it would help you understand?

By taking the time to explain that it just show how naive you are. Lets state the obvious shall we. It will take a thicker pencil to draw me Mr know it all and one that by all accounts totally supports corruption.

Glad to hear you'll be taking a firm anti-corruption stand next time the cops pull you over. You'll say, "no sir, I'm not giving you a bribe of 200 baht. I'd much rather you take my license, and I'll come down to the cop shop tomorrow to pay you 500 baht and get a receipt."

Take a witness, will you?

I will hopefully take you as it appears that you have many close friends in our well respected police service. Maybe you can just bore them to death in a very short period of time?

I stay as far away from the police as possible. Nothing good comes from hanging around the Thai police.

I wish you'd stop making things up, but it seems to be the normal thing to do around here when you start to lose an argument.

So...Rick. Are you going to pay a bribe next time you're stopped? Or do the right thing and take a ticket? You haven't responded to this very vital question.

Should we not differentiate between tea money and corruption?

Corruption = paying money to receive a service which you either would not be entitled to get OR paying for a service that you should get for free but will not get if you don't pay the bribes...

Tea Money (in this case) = paying small amounts to omit being held responsible for something you did wrong. Of course, their is a small step to extortion when they take you out for nothing just to get their tea money...

But is it not the main problem that these guys just don't get paid a living salary? When they get 10K a month but need 5K for the child's tuition and should be supporting the family back home... what else can they do? They can't work more than two jobs a day...

If you want to get rid of the tea money, then Thai authorities must start to pay their employees a wage for living...

BTW: If you look at the Transparency International List of corrupt countries, then Thailand is in the middle field, together with countries like Greece... and if you analyze the list, you will see that corruption is the higher as average salaries in the countries are lower...

Finally, someone with a brain joins the discussion.

Tea money is a totally optional convenience payment.

If it offends you, you don't have to pay it. Take a ticket, pay the official fine, and get a receipt.

Right...I wonder how many people actually opt to do that. Perhaps Rick can name a single "outraged" Thai who would gladly do so?

My wife for one hates the bastards and lets them know that when we get stopped for being totally legal in every which way. You want to go with it fine by me, but corruption is the major player in holding Thailand back.

I don't really think that the OP was being too serious in his post by the way because that's just the way it is.

We're not talking about being "totally legal".

We're talking about being stopped for committing an offense.

What does your wife do in that case? She offers a bribe, doesn't she?

Should we not differentiate between tea money and corruption?

Corruption = paying money to receive a service which you either would not be entitled to get OR paying for a service that you should get for free but will not get if you don't pay the bribes...

Tea Money (in this case) = paying small amounts to omit being held responsible for something you did wrong. Of course, their is a small step to extortion when they take you out for nothing just to get their tea money...

But is it not the main problem that these guys just don't get paid a living salary? When they get 10K a month but need 5K for the child's tuition and should be supporting the family back home... what else can they do? They can't work more than two jobs a day...

If you want to get rid of the tea money, then Thai authorities must start to pay their employees a wage for living...

BTW: If you look at the Transparency International List of corrupt countries, then Thailand is in the middle field, together with countries like Greece... and if you analyze the list, you will see that corruption is the higher as average salaries in the countries are lower...

Finally, someone with a brain joins the discussion.

Tea money is a totally optional convenience payment.

If it offends you, you don't have to pay it. Take a ticket, pay the official fine, and get a receipt.

Right...I wonder how many people actually opt to do that. Perhaps Rick can name a single "outraged" Thai who would gladly do so?

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it fuc_k off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

From the OP:-

...off to Thong lor piggery and hand ticket to Sargent or whatever rank he was behind window.. he says B500 I say sort of cheekily say.. "but the officer said to just give him B200".. cop smiles and says ok and screws up the ticket and Im B200 poorer...

Sounds like tea money to me

That's what I was trying to clarify -- did the cop tear up the ticket and pocket the 200 baht without giving a receipt? Or did he give a discount, which is within his power to do, and give a receipt?

Either way...sounds like a win-win for all involved rather than an outrage. I'm sure the OP could have paid the full amount if he was so indignant.

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it fuc_k off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

I have paid both many times and know that it goes into the same kitty. Perhaps you don't? I got stopped that much in Bangkok by the same cop ( i use the term loosely) that I offered to open a standing order so he did not waste so much of my time. Oddly enough he never stopped me again. Even most of the Thais hate this kind of corruption, maybe you don't know that either.

It sounds like you don't know much of anything.

If an official ticket has been written up and a receipt given, the fine does not go into anyone's pocket.

Where do you get this stuff from?

Thais hate being able to get out of expensive tickets, having their licenses confiscated, and having a black mark on their records by paying a much cheaper bribe directly to a cop?

How do you figure?

If they stopped this practice tomorrow, and everyone had to have their license confiscated, go down to the police station to retrieve it, have a black mark on their record, and pay a much higher fine -- how do you think that would go down?

Would "outrage" possibly describe it?

LOL.

Of course it was tea money as it always is. In all my time in Thailand I have never known anyone defend the BIB to the outlandish extent that you do. They are criminals and everyone knows that with the probable exception of you. Why do you defend blatant corruption by a force that should be there to protect people,but instead fill their own pockets? Every post that you make and every topic that you reply to has the same feel to it. Is your brother in law part of the 'serve and collect' mafia?

Yawn i am just waiting for the 'if you don't like it *deleted* off home to your Utopian country of birth' standard remark

"Tea money" is a bribe. It's what you pay to a corrupt traffic cop on the street for not issuing you a ticket (yes, traffic cops are highly corruptible -- but those paying off cops are just as corrupt as the cops are. Takes two to tango when it comes to offering/accepting a bribe).

Anyway, when you take a ticket and pay for it at the police station, it is an official fine and receipted as such.

Do you not know the difference? Perhaps you don't.

Always the alternative view Richard eh! I suggest you take a sense of humour pill.

The OP titled his thread:

Even At The Police Station Tea Money Rules

Is it strange to question where the "tea money" part came into it? Is there something funny that my lack of humor has failed to identify?

Where does the tea money come into it? Your whingeing that the duty officer had pity on you and reduced your fine to 200 baht? Did he give you a receipt, or pocket the money himself?

Thats what you get for sending your kid to a sub-par (probably) Thai school.

The Int. schools have web portals, weekly newsletters, and 7 year olds are certainly not allowed to leave the school grounds with out their parents or approved guardian (who must present a valid ID at the gate). If a child was not picked up, the school should have kept her in the office until a parent was contacted.

Send your kid to a proper school or stop complaining.

Its not as simple as that kilgore. we live in the sticks so the only school available is the local school. failing that my 10 year old would have to rise at 5 a.m. get a bus to the nearest town school 50 km away and then have to go through the return trip. i have seen kids arrive home at 6:30 pm.

what needs to be done is for the schools to have some foresight and thought process when they want or need to close early. the same happens in my kids school. they cancel lessons to attend retirement parties or for school trips. 30 students go on the trips and so do ALL of the teachers. its a free jaunt, so why not. the other 600 students are told not to come to school. its wrong and affects the students' education but hey! mai pen rai.

Is there a compelling reason that you're living in the sticks? IE., one that trumps the educational needs of your kids?

I remember when it was under 40THB to 1 GBP, and don't seem to recall a shortage of Brits here then.

As far as I can see Thai children are taught nothing about any other country and - are somehow instilled with the belief that Thailand is superior to everyone else.

Have you actually read any Thai textbooks?

No -- I didn't think so.

So upon what, exactly, are you basing this ridiculous statement?

Before you turn the question back on me: yes, I have read Thai high school textbooks and helped tutor many high school and college kids.

Their textbooks DO cover world history and they do NOT -- as far as I can see -- state or imply anywhere that Thailand is "superior to everyone else". (They do, however, teach Thai kids to be proud of their history -- like kids in every country around the world are taught about their history).

Perhaps your opinion is colored by encounters with completely uneducated bumpkins who never went beyond elementary school -- or who are so dim that they remember nothing they were taught in high school.

You're right - it is the uneducated here that have the belief that everything Thai is superior. Those educated abroad have a far better knowledge of the world.

Well..duh? Of course someone who has been abroad has a "far better knowledge of the world": at least they've seen some of it.

By the way -- that goes for non-Thais just as much as Thais.

Oh... BTW, I spoke to the Big C manager beverages today... Is IS ordering the beer for me and Even gives me a tel.call. (just an update)

Then you can change the topic of this thread to "Thai People Bend Over Backwards to Cater to Me". Oh happy day.

As far as I can see Thai children are taught nothing about any other country and - are somehow instilled with the belief that Thailand is superior to everyone else.

Have you actually read any Thai textbooks?

No -- I didn't think so.

So upon what, exactly, are you basing this ridiculous statement?

Before you turn the question back on me: yes, I have read Thai high school textbooks and helped tutor many high school and college kids.

Their textbooks DO cover world history and they do NOT -- as far as I can see -- state or imply anywhere that Thailand is "superior to everyone else". (They do, however, teach Thai kids to be proud of their history -- like kids in every country around the world are taught about their history).

Perhaps your opinion is colored by encounters with completely uneducated bumpkins who never went beyond elementary school -- or who are so dim that they remember nothing they were taught in high school.

I have seen Thomas's at Villa on numerous occasions.

Thats what you get for sending your kid to a sub-par (probably) Thai school.

The Int. schools have web portals, weekly newsletters, and 7 year olds are certainly not allowed to leave the school grounds with out their parents or approved guardian (who must present a valid ID at the gate). If a child was not picked up, the school should have kept her in the office until a parent was contacted.

Send your kid to a proper school or stop complaining.

What about if the parents can't afford to send their kids to a proper (probably) Farang school? Can they continue to complain?

Should I uproot my family and move 400 km to Bangkok or Chiang Mai where there is a farang school?

Depends on how important your kid's education is to you, I guess.

A bunch of students in Chiang Mai must have done some research recently, learned absolutely nothing and their mentors obviously didn't have a clue either.

Ah but think of all the hours of fun they had designing and making the costumes.

Who would you like to be on the parade Lek/Aoy/Nom ?? - "Himmler,Goering,Goebbels, the little Austrian corporal"

Just seen the pics on a UK online paper. Buffoons, to put it mildly.

It was funny when Hogan's Heroes did it...

Kids need cell phones for this reason.