pisico

<br />Running them off conveniently makes the land free to be bought up cheap by locals powers, now that the nasty farangs have paid to develop and build in it. Some things never change.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

XENOPHOBIA for fun and profit. It comes to show how hospitable Thais are...

That's right - individuals can easily hire legally a migrant worker from a neighbouring country in their own right without the need to get a company to be the employer. I have thai citizenship so with an I'd card it is pretty straightforward.

That isn't to say thai companies can't take advantage of the same scheme. While I am less familiar with the requirements there I do believe they are less stringent (eg no need for a certain amount of paid up capital nor any need for a particular ratio of thai to foreign workers as would be required for 'normal' work permits for other nationalities.)

There is a small processing fee for the permits 1900 baht I think and a annual contribution of something in the range of 1500 baht to contribute to the hospital linked health plan they enter. A small fee also at the ampur to register them there too (30 baht?) And other misc fees.

All worth it though I think as you have a legal migrant worker with access to social services and who are very appreciative of employers who do the right thing by them.

You are indeed a valuable source of information on this subject. I am sure that you are vastly knowledgeable too in other areas.

I have questions regarding Registration Period, fees and procedure about a specific case I know first hand..

A Cambodian girl I know (she is a graphic designer with extensive Photoshop expertise) is here in Thailand on 2 month back to back visas. She usually works in small shops that hire her for about THB4,500 a month.

I feel sorry for her and her 2 brothers who are in similar situations. They work illegally for low wages and on top of that pay their local cops money every month not to be arrested and deported. They are orphans, honest and truly hard working people.

I wish I could help but I am Farang.

I mentioned to her what you wrote about registration of Cambodians by Thai individuals or Thai companies that obtain Work Permits for them.

She said that Cambodians to get such permits are charged THB30,000 by the Thai government (Immigration Bureau)?.

She does not have that kind of money the reason for her trips to PP every 4 months and working for such low salary.

Does she have the right information about the registration fee or she has information from a source that is trying to scam her?

She is fluent in Thai, Khmer and has a good knowledge of English.

As of late, she has a possibility to work as a waitress at a restaurant that caters mainly to foreigners.

She is hesitant to go for it for fear of being in an open environment without a work permit and be deported.

The owner of the restaurant is Farang. I do not know if he would be willing to do the paperwork for her.

Will the Labor Department or Immigration in Suam Plu have the answers about registration? Do you know anything about the THB 30,000 she is referring to?

What do you think are her options?

I will appreciate your opinion on their behalf.

Ricky

Let them walk out ! Who cares?

They even can't understand what ''United" means ...!

Pfffffffff

Agree, let them walk out. Spoiled brats!

There is more than meets the eye.

The Yellow Shirts are against any kind of fair settlement and/or bilateral management of the temple. They demand and passionately think that the temple is Thai. Never mind that for decades Thailand agreed and signed on the French survey used by the United Nations to settle the case back then. Granted that it is an immature reaction and behavior:

The Yellows want the temple and territory to be Thai. Abhisit by ordering the walk out from the UNESCO meeting is telling the Yellows, see, we hear you, we are with you! Thereby attempting to get their votes in the election and garnering the favor of the top brass of army.

The government using different channels also stated that Thailand can go back to joining UNESCO.

So, after the election is over and depending on the outcome, Thailand may return and join UNESCO once again and continue with the haggling over territory and/or temple.

It is all a political ploy. It has nothing to do with saving face or national pride. It is a cold, political premeditated plan.

Do you think that a country should just sit back and let other countries take their property? Would you just sit back and let someone take over part of your property?

I would call police and you would be obliged to go away.

It's what Cambodia did.

It's what UN told to Thailand.

Fair or unfair is NOT the debate. The debate is to know if Thailand accept the decisions of the "police".

If Thailand does not accept the whole world decision, what's next? War for the next 1000 years? I still think this is childish.

Well, when I write "Thailand", I don't mean Thailand, just the yellow & army who obliges Abisith to act silly. Before the yellow and the secret hand rules Thailand since 5 years, there was no problem at the border.

Never mind what you mean (even if reality backs you up) those with a tunnel vision are in love with the powers-that-are.

The misnomer, Democrat, that actually means a dictatorship of 50% plus one on the remaining minority; that majority truly feels they own the truth. They also feel that if they are in favor of the ruling elite that brings them closer to a celestial level.

If Thailand does not act as an evolved and responsible country, respectful of international laws, rulings, treaties and organizations, it will soil the country's standing in the global community. It will put the country in the group of banana republics that are ruled by capricious leaders without regard for the people's welfare and or future.

Cambodia has no air force, no aircraft carriers, no submarines; nothing comparable to the Thai arsenal. Is it a matter of national security?

Hubris is what propels that bunch.

As I stated before, those clamoring for the ownership of both land and temple, are willing to fight to the last Cambodian and Thai soldier and collateral civilian casualties. .. Not them.

Oh! I see, they claim principles and are willing to bore us to death with reasons and factoids. Oi vey!

Probably I was not clear in my post because what I meant is exactly what you wrote: "If Thailand does not act as an evolved and responsible country, respectful of international laws, rulings, treaties and organizations, it will soil the country's standing in the global community. It will put the country in the group of banana republics that are ruled by capricious leaders without regard for the people's welfare and or future."

You were clear, crystal clear.

I was merely expounding on your statement to make it blatantly obvious to those of the Lutea persuasion.

Do you think that a country should just sit back and let other countries take their property? Would you just sit back and let someone take over part of your property?

I would call police and you would be obliged to go away.

It's what Cambodia did.

It's what UN told to Thailand.

Fair or unfair is NOT the debate. The debate is to know if Thailand accept the decisions of the "police".

If Thailand does not accept the whole world decision, what's next? War for the next 1000 years? I still think this is childish.

Well, when I write "Thailand", I don't mean Thailand, just the yellow & army who obliges Abisith to act silly. Before the yellow and the secret hand rules Thailand since 5 years, there was no problem at the border.

Never mind what you mean (even if reality backs you up) those with a tunnel vision are in love with the powers-that-are.

The misnomer, Democrat, that actually means a dictatorship of 50% plus one on the remaining minority; that majority truly feels they own the truth. They also feel that if they are in favor of the ruling elite that brings them closer to a celestial level.

If Thailand does not act as an evolved and responsible country, respectful of international laws, rulings, treaties and organizations, it will soil the country's standing in the global community. It will put the country in the group of banana republics that are ruled by capricious leaders without regard for the people's welfare and or future.

Cambodia has no air force, no aircraft carriers, no submarines; nothing comparable to the Thai arsenal. Is it a matter of national security?

Hubris is what propels that bunch.

As I stated before, those clamoring for the ownership of both land and temple, are willing to fight to the last Cambodian and Thai soldier and collateral civilian casualties. .. Not them.

Oh! I see, they claim principles and are willing to bore us to death with reasons and factoids. Oi vey!

I have no sympathy this girl, she is 20 years old and not a child!

Why didn't she use insist on him using protection?

Why did she go with a 70 year old man?

She might of wanted to get pregnant, and told him she was on the pill who knows?

I suspect someone trying to get a free ride from farang and she should of known better, give up on any revenge or retribution, he has done nothing illegal and its not the Thai way, it will just make her look bad, and achieve nothing.

The best she can do is once the baby is born, inform him and hope he has some interest, otherwise forget it.

The OP is an obvious troll.

As far as your comment goes that he has done nothing wrong, one becomes of age when is 21 one in Thailand. A minor having reached a certain age can give consent, but that can change that after the fact. There are also a few other laws that might be invoked in a case like this, such as keeping a minor away from her parents.

Right you are Mario, as always.

This should put this thread to a final rest... Although, I dread that some righteous minds will want to pursue it to assert their opinion and/or seniority... no matter what.

The original story fits the pattern ingrained in Thais minds: Thai good, Farang (or is it Falong?) bad.

If the girl in the story was a 14 or 15 year old girl being "seduced" by a 70 year old man, then it would be a different scenario.

However, at 20, legally there is little that can be done.

The OP (and also a poster member here) suggest pressure via blackmail by jeopardizing the man's job and reputation. That sounds more like revenge.

It certainly will not advance the future of the child nor of the "naive 20 year old girl from Isaan".

As for the blithering suggestion to take the baby to the American Embassy and register it as an American born abroad that is only possible if the parent (mother or father) is an American citizen. She is Thai.

I fail to see the place of employment's liability for the events in the private life of one of the employees. Unless we are talking about pressure using blackmail: "If you do not foot the bill we will try to make lose your job".

If true, it's unfortunate. She will have to decide what to do with the pregnancy.

At any rate I ask: is the OP sole interest that he will have to pay for the child's future?

The purpose of future actions must be defined.

I suggest you read my post, #13, again. I said IF the father is from the USA the mother should try to have him/her registered as a US citizen as this could prove benificial later on. Her problem may be getting the father to the US consulate. You're a relatively new member. In the future you should read posts and understand what they say before replying.

It is a blithering idea indeed to think that a man who told her to get lost that he will go to the Embassy to register a child that she claims is his. A long, long shot. Assuming that the story is factual.

I think they have a strong case.

You "think" but unfortunately you are not in the commission and the commission "thinks" that the Thai position is weak.

ALL the countries of this planet consider that, at a time or another of their story, they had been spoiled by a neighbor. To be adult is to able to accept the current situation.

...and the French go: "Return Louisiana to France!"

...and the Russians go: "Return Alaska to Russia!"

...and the Mexicans go: "Return California to Mexico!"

...and the Argentinians go: "Return the Falkland islands to Argentina!"

...as a comedian in the USA once said referring to the adoration of the Media for Barack Hussein Obama: "He is the president and open to criticism: stop defending him, he is not your boyfriend!"

Thai position in this border/temple issue is murky from the get go. A lot of blame has been placed on the original French survey. However, that finding was accepted for decades by Thailand and Cambodia.

Enter the Yellow mob. Now it's a matter of national pride? A matter of national security in the face of an enemy that has not air force, no submarines, no aircraft carriers?

Thailand's position is tantamount to this: "if I do not get my way, there is no compromise. I will take my ball, bat and mitt and go home! There!

Long bloody wars have been waged over such hubris. But of course, the blind supporters of this position are willing to fight and die to the very last Cambodian and Thai soldier, not to mention civilian collateral casualties... not them.

...if the shoe fits....

The original story fits the pattern ingrained in Thais minds: Thai good, Farang (or is it Falong?) bad.

If the girl in the story was a 14 or 15 year old girl being "seduced" by a 70 year old man, then it would be a different scenario.

However, at 20, legally there is little that can be done.

The OP (and also a poster member here) suggest pressure via blackmail by jeopardizing the man's job and reputation. That sounds more like revenge.

It certainly will not advance the future of the child nor of the "naive 20 year old girl from Isaan".

As for the blithering suggestion to take the baby to the American Embassy and register it as an American born abroad that is only possible if the parent (mother or father) is an American citizen. She is Thai.

I fail to see the place of employment's liability for the events in the private life of one of the employees. Unless we are talking about pressure using blackmail: "If you do not foot the bill we will try to make lose your job".

If true, it's unfortunate. She will have to decide what to do with the pregnancy.

At any rate I ask: is the OP sole interest that he will have to pay for the child's future?

The purpose of future actions must be defined.

I thought there were only 12 months per annum.

TIT

<br />Pisico, the info you have posted above is wrong...<br /><br />AEON ATMs don't charge the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee, whether one uses their Thai or English menu...<br /><br />And, at least in using their English menu, you can withdraw up to 35,000 or 40,000 baht per transaction, provided your home country bank allows that large of a withdrawal.<br /><br />Many many TV members here regularly use AEON ATMS throughout Thailand, almost all using their English menu I'd presume, and none of use are paying any withdrawal fees charged by AEON.<br /><br />However, depending on what home country bank card a person is using, their home country bank may levy a fee for using a foreign/international ATM.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />The topic was the ATM in Central Pinklao that the poster did not find because it was not there.<br />The information I posted applies to that specific location (4th. floor, Tesco Lotus near Central Pinklao) and personal experience when using a USA ATM card using the English interface. It appears on the screen the question in English that there will be a THB150 for the transaction. The last time I tried 3 months ago the assistant clerk standing to help customers who do not understand the workings of an ATM machine told me that the bank next door (Siam Bank) charged only THB100. For the heck of it I withdrew in Thai from that very same machine at AEON and went to the Siam Bank and found out the clerk was wrong: the charge would be THB150 had I used the Siam Bank ATM. Of course that one may have a different experience at different locations and/or provinces. I posted factual information for that specific location. I suggested the fast and easy way of using THB7,000 option in case that the member cannot understand Thai. When I need more than that amount, I just go into the "Other amount" and enter the value I need.  <br />The website is not updated as it is a usual occurrence in LOS.   <br />Alai goday

military uniform, said in an interview aired on two army-run channels late Tuesday.

"I want you to use sound and reasonable judgement to make our country and our monarchy safe and have good people running our nation," he said, apparently endorsing the ruling Democrats, who came to power with army backing.

...and that's an order!

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

I have worked over 20 years in tourism, not just in Thailand but internationally as well. With the possible exception of "dirty beaches" mentioned above, none of the other items has any significant effect on tourism. Many European cities, especially London and Paris are much worse in terms of gross overpricing, street touts and con artists, not to mention actual physical threat to life in terms of robberies and snatch thievery.

IMO, Thailand is the best country to visit and/or to stay, when both good and bad are considered. The hotels offer the best value for money anywhere in the world. Drink prices at upmarket hotels will always be high, this is just a simple fact of life. I pay Euro 25 for a glass of beer in the rooftop bar of Concorde la Fayette - are there any hotels in Bkk that would charge this?

In the bars in any of the nightlife entertainment districts, I consider THB 100 for a Singha beer very good value considering that you can have the company of the bar girls if you so wish (of course, it is understood that you should also buy them a drink, which costs THB 40-60 more than yours), but still extremely cheap. (I'm talking here about Bangkok but it is considerably cheaper in some other provinces).

Just last night, we concluded an Awards Presentation Dinner at a 5 star hotel near the riverside. We had police escorts from one hotel to the venue. We had cultural dances, hot dances. We had fireworks, great food and drink. The speed and efficiency of the hotel staff in setting up the venue (including a standby venue indoors in case of rain) was beyond anything that I have seen anywhere in Europe (I have organised such events and still do, in the UK, France, Switzerland, Spain, Russia, Italy etc). Comments from the delegates (who are from overseas)? They just love Thailand. Prices for a meal can range from THB 30 to THB 3,000. The main thing is that the choice is there, unlike many other countries.

The problem that Thai Tourism face is mainly due to the political instability and turmoil that this country has gone through in the last 18 years. This has created a negative image in many people's minds and this is the reason that a lot of them stay away. More marketing has to be done globally to promote Thailand, something that Malaysia surprisingly managed to get right. The second major problem is course the language - not enough service people speak English, which is the universal travel language. Finally, there aren't many man made attractions, instead, Thailand is still very reliant on shopping, beaches and culture.

So, according to you the armies of unbridled soi dogs roaming and populating the streets of the city you choose to glamorize, Bangkok, are not real, but an "image created in many people's minds".

The motorcycles cruising up and down the sidewalks endangering the lives of pedestrians are not real but "image created in many people's minds".

Except for a smattering of streets in the hi-so area of Ratchaprasong that gets regular cleaning, the rest of the city from Nonthabury, to Pinklao and Taling Chan with the stinking canals (klongs) carrying from refuse to black waters and the dirty streets and grimy buses are not Real, but "image created in many people's minds".

Bangkok represents only 1/6 of the population of the country. It is not representative of Thailand.

I am happy that you can enjoy the perks of events that apply to venues of "quality tourists". The other two lowly levels of tourism that are the ones that actually impact positively those small businesses and lower social levels do not benefit or ever see events such as the one you described. Good for you, not good for the thousands of tourists that do see those problems as real and not just as an "image created in people's minds". Your words not mine. Denial of the obvious?

Not surprisingly, all those political parties seem to have ignored the real issues that have mired the tourism industry for literally decades:

- gem scams

- jet ski scams

- taxi, tuk-tuk and minivan mafia

- "farang" prices (even officially sanctioned in places like national parks)

- no transparency or simple 'sweeping-under-the-carpet' when it comes to investigating suspicious tourist deaths

- extortion (remember the string of incidents at the airport where out-bound visitors were allegedely accused of shop lifting, illegally detained at a seedy motel and only later released when they had coughed up a substantial amount to 'avoid legal charges'?)

- dirty beaches (well, garbage just about everywhere, to be frank, no only on the beaches)

- con artists (particularly active in the Grand Palace/Sanam Luang area of Bangkok)

- false advertising (with many 'hidden' charges)

- annoying street touts

- gross overpricing in just about every upmarket hotel (THB250++ for a beer???!!!)

..and the list could go on.

It's also very telling that the one party, Chart Thai Pattana, which is supposedly "currently overseeing tourism", was absent from that so-called panel.

May I add a few items to your list?

Streets and buses that are not cleaned regularly (Sorry! I forgot they do it during Songkran)

Motorcycles cruising up and down SIDEWALKS endangering the lives of pedestrians.

Motor vehicles oblivious to traffic signals, especially motorcycles, that are a constant threat to pedestrians and themselves.

Egregious lack of animal control in every major city (Thailand has less than 6) to prevent the dog population to grow and roam freely; a sign of urban decay. This in itself is a rabies epidemic in the making.

Common knowledge has it that the police join the force by purchasing the position or as a result of political debts and/or favors.

Laws that are applied (or not) depending on the status of the offender. Examples: 2 girls are fined 500THB for being topples in public but when a 16 year old, without without a driver's license crashes the hi-so's family's car into a van carrying numerous passengers and 8 died, she walks free and the parents are not held accountable for the actions of their minor daughter while using the family car.

Can we expect a pro active attitude regarding tourism from the authorities?

They believe, as most Thais do, that this is such a special country that no matter what their flaws and deficiencies are, tourists will continue flocking to Thailand because they are Oh, so special!

This excerpt below says it all:

It's not in Central Pinklao. You can find it on the 4th. floor of the Tesco Lotus, near Central Pinklao. When you use the ATM, choose the Thai version. If you use the English interface, it will hit you with THB150. Using the Thai interface you can withdraw up to 7,000 Baht using only your pin number. If more than that, then it will show you, in Thai, a menu: Checking, credit card, savings, balance. You can withdraw several times the 7,000 Baht as long as your account limit is up to par. No charges doing this way.

Four Sons hotel on Trok Ron mai, in back of Wat Chanasongkrham will keep your luggage for THB10 a day. There is an al fresco restaurant in front of it. It is not a bad place to stay either. Quiet and with a view of the temple if you rent a room with a balcony for about THB500 for 2 people. OK to bring a Thai girlfriend also. No frills but it has a double bed AC/ bath with hot water and cable TV, shampoo soap and towels every day.

<br />Neither Thailand or Phil can compete with the nursing wages offered abroad in US, UK etc. If the Thai nurses spoke English as well as the PI ones, the US would gladly take them. It is even a stereotype for PI women in the US. <br /><br />My ex-wife was born in PI and many of her family members are nurses.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Just go to Yanhee and Bumrungrad hospitals and you will easily see th[r]ongs of Filipino nurses, males and females, working full time and with work permit for two reasons: 1: their schooling resembles pretty much the USA standards. 2- their fluency in English.

Thais are not taught in a dynamic environment anywhere and English proficiency is given marginal attention as part of the curriculum. My ex is also a nurse and she is Thai and is about to finish her Master's Degree. Her thesis of choice was the incidence of Cancer of the Cervix in Thailand and Cambodia and the causes, among them, cultural. She was forced to change it to a social issue thesis regarding women's rights in the Western Society. Her English was a tad better than the norm of Thais who have knowledge of the language. Her writing atrocious and spoken word clear but haltingly, much like my dismal Thai.

Who can expect such an educational system devoted to a large degree to perfunctory attendance and ceremonial and ritual activities, that have nothing to do with science, to produce excellence in their graduates, much less in large numbers due to the salaries constraints? Additionally, private hospitals are opting out increasingly from the socialized medical system in the country thus, compounding the problem: fewer hospitals participating, a greater load on the ones still in the Universal health care scheme. That was a headline in The Nation and TV not long ago. This is Thailand.

Sounds like an off day for this writer.

Where does he get the idea that other Asian countries like Vietnam and the Philippines will overtake Thailand? Thailand is already blowing them out of the water for high tech jobs while they wallow in the stone age making shirts. If Thailand failed to progress beyond it's present stage it will still take these other countries 20 years to catch up.

The article should have said that Thailand will be overtaking Japan soon. Their already making cars and electronics as well as Japan.

Thailand is manufacturing all kinds of high tech stuff which is far better than China.

I don't think you have been in one of these factories in Thailand and seen who does what there.

Spot on!

Additionally, Filipino nurses are in high demand in Thai hospitals. Especially in those hospitals who cater to a large degree to Westerners and Australians. Why so? They all are fluent in English.

One more fact: Filipino nurses can work in the USA without having to study from zero as other nationalities must in order to work in the USA. Filipinos earn more in the USA and less in Thailand but here they are closer to home.

It must be also understood that a large percentage of the Thai industry producing all those touted high tech products are not genuinely Thai. They are companies from other countries that have to give up 51 percent of the stock so they can do business here. Interesting: Thailand is known in business parlance as the Asian Detroit and there isn't a single car genuinely Thai with Thai engineering and styling. Ford, Toyota, Isuzu, Nissan... Add to that Casio, Western Digital, Unilever, etc. the list goes on and on and on....

Alai go dai

This is an exclusive, inward culture that values tradition. To break the molds is not easy. To ask why, to complain are no, nos of this culture: "it's not polite to complain." Let the wrong continue to be wrong until there is a crisis. 2 egregious examples: 1- motorcycles roaming on the same sidewalk (encroached and squeezed by infinite number of carts) where pedestrians walk endangering their lives. 2- Soi dogs (a good title for a novel) reproducing exponentially without an Animal Control presence in any city of the country. The noise at night while these Soi dogs fight over food and/or vie for the female of choice notwithstanding, a rabies epidemic is in the making. When there is a crisis of so many under skilled Thai workers that cannot get hired there will be an outcry: Why hire foreigners when so many Thais are out of work? Will this be the solution? To apply themselves and study to be up to par, or higher level of proficiency than foreign nationals? NO! The best solution to the problem will probably be Affirmative action Thai style. Alai go dai!

<br />Yes I can believe it.<br />How can you expect a government that acts like school children in a playground to pass a law preventing blatant racism?<br />No blacks no dogs no Irish, that was over 50 years ago in UK. Thankfully we've moved on. Thailand has a long way to go but it won't be in my lifetime....<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Deputy PM Suthep stated publicly and quite clearly" I do not trust Farang!"

The government speaking. Citizens take a cue and follow through. Add to that the inbred Xenophobia in the Thais mind.

I was not explicit in my previous posting.

I wanted anyone to prove that the popular vote was indeed a DECIDING factor that determines the election of a presidential candidate in the USA.

The Federalist papers, the Constitution and the pledge of allegiance itself numerous times refers to the USA as being a Republic.

My quick response addressed specious information that fosters the impression that there was corruption on the part of the Supreme Court of the USA, because the Supreme Court adhered to the rules and laws of the land regarding the outcome of a presidential election, .

That is the law and the rules.

Thailand also has it rules, whether we like it or not, as Animatic explained earlier. Those laws and rules may be similar in appearance to the laws of the USA, which is a Representative Democracy.

Additionally, I do not parse or take out of context poster's comments. I have no hidden agenda: I am an Independent of many many years.

I would state facts, not opinion. Much less to instruct other members what to do in terms of ideology and/ or behavior. That shows arrogance, a supercilious attitude we can do without in this forum.

Wouldn't it be both more honest and simpler to make the statement ... "I was wrong, Bush did NOT receive more people's votes than Gore." ?? Your statement that Bush won both was "specious information" that fostered the impression that Bush was who the people of the USA chose in 2000, and that is simply wrong by over 500,000 votes.

Thailand's parliamentary democracy (which is a Representative democracy) is not comparable to the USA's Republican democracy (which is also a Representative democracy) in any other significant ways other than neither are a Direct democracy.

It is obvious that there are differences between the two systems of governance: Thailand and the USA are different. Laws and rules are sui generis to each one of them.

Maybe you missed the last lines in my previous posting. I hope that you can understand and maybe remember them instead of lecturing others suggesting they are dishonest. I know that you will find a way to follow up with arguments to suit your purpose and not what the thread is about..

It is obvious that there are differences between the two systems of governance: Thailand and the USA are different. Laws and rules are sui generis to each one of them.

Maybe you missed the last lines in my previous posting. I hope that you can understand and maybe remember them instead of lecturing others suggesting they are dishonest. I know that you will find a way to follow up with arguments to suit your purpose and not what the thread is about..

Incorrect--- Bush won the electoral College #'s but lost the popular vote in 2000. Gore got about 500,000 more votes than Bush.

Prove it!

http://en.wikipedia....ational_results

Presidential candidate 	Party 		Home state 	Popular vote 		Electoral vote
						Count 		Pct
George W. Bush 		Republican 	Texas 		50,456,002 	47.87% 		271
Al Gore 		Democratic 	Tennessee 	50,999,897 	48.38% 		266

I was not explicit in my previous posting.

I wanted anyone to prove that the popular vote was indeed a DECIDING factor that determines the election of a presidential candidate in the USA.

The Federalist papers, the Constitution and the pledge of allegiance itself numerous times refers to the USA as being a Republic.

My quick response addressed specious information that fosters the impression that there was corruption on the part of the Supreme Court of the USA, because the Supreme Court adhered to the rules and laws of the land regarding the outcome of a presidential election, .

That is the law and the rules.

Thailand also has it rules, whether we like it or not, as Animatic explained earlier. Those laws and rules may be similar in appearance to the laws of the USA, which is a Representative Democracy.

Additionally, I do not parse or take out of context poster's comments. I have no hidden agenda: I am an Independent of many many years.

I would state facts, not opinion. Much less to instruct other members what to do in terms of ideology and/ or behavior. That shows arrogance, a supercilious attitude we can do without in this forum.

In the USA there is not a Democracy determined by popular vote. The system of Electoral Votes (representing districts and constituents) is the one that decides who is the president in an election. <br />The Bush vs. Gore example is a false analogy since, even after manual count of thousands of ballots (the famous and ludicrous hanging chads) and a convoluted legal appeal following the manual count by Al Gore before the Supreme Court, the popular and electoral votes gave Bush the victory. Whether one is a liberal-democrat-progressive or a conservative-republican, the information contained herein is a historical fact, not opinion, belief or feeling.

Incorrect--- Bush won the electoral College #'s but lost the popular vote in 2000. Gore got about 500,000 more votes than Bush.

Prove it!

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<br />i would like to live in a country where people respect the law and condemn bullys<br />

<br />then you better move to america or europe <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />' /><br />

<br /><br />Ummm... exqueeze me but, which america and europe are you referring to? Obviously you've not lived in either or you'd know better than to say such things. I think Bush vs. Gore comes immediately to mind. There are countless other examples. The USA is one of the worst offenders, hence one of the reasons why so many now consider it their ex-country.<br /><br />And so, regardless of who does &quot;win&quot; the majority, it doesn't mean that's what will be. It's all about who can pull the strings for whom... but I do hope the Dems win it. They're the closest thing to a real political party in this country. The fact that it would be even close shows the ignorance of epic proportion that exists here.<br />

<br />it's funny when you most  hear people like you(obviously with some special ability)...... i'm american(from Tampas) and i has been in Europe many times(spain,italy,netherland,germany, andorra etc) and i have lots of friends there, and i will not waste my time with you cuz since the moment in which you put  america(us and canada) and europe( eu) at the same level that Thailand  u r showin' ur level of understanding of our beautiful world. i just don't care who is gonne win cuz  is more or less tha same(for me, a farang workin' here). you said the dems(accordin' to you) are the closest thin' to a political party here<br />can u explain to us(accordin' to u) what is a political party?<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Democracy: a system of government in which a majority (50% plus 1) is in power. Traditionally this majority overpowers and subjects the minority (49%) to their dictates.<br />Republic: a system of government in which the rights of the individual are protected and emphasized regardless of their political affiliations or proportion to the electorate.<br />In the USA there is not a Democracy determined by popular vote. The system of Electoral Votes (representing districts and constituents) is the one that decides who is the president in an election. <br />The Bush vs. Gore example is a false analogy since, even after manual count of thousands of ballots (the famous and ludicrous hanging chads) and a convoluted legal appeal following the manual count by Al Gore before the Supreme Court, the popular and electoral votes gave Bush the victory. Whether one is a liberal-democrat-progressive or a conservative-republican, the information contained herein is a historical fact, not opinion, belief or feeling.

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<br />Ani ---<br /><br />I agree --- It is hypocritical to whine about Suthep being with the Dems if you are not also whining about S'noh, etc ....<br /><br />It is like the people that object to Newin's BJT being in the Dem coalition because Newin is banned ---- but didn't mind it when there was the "friends of Newin" faction in PPP (while Newin was still banned) <img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

<br /><br />What's making me sick is reading people whine about Thaksin running Puea Thai when it's clear that Bhumjaithai is clearly ran by Newin. So how can a banned politician be part of a coalition government without the case ever going to the EC or the Constitution Court?<br /><br /><img src='http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

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Indeed!!!