Padrino

It frightens me that some people are posting the attitude that if they were hookers before than "whats the problem?" ENSLAVEMENT is nothing even close to the lifestyle a Pattaya bar girl lives, she has complete freedom to do as she pleases, she can not work if she chooses, she can change jobs if she chooses, she can take whatever client she wants or not take one if she doesnt want. A SLAVE can only be raped several times a day with no choices or freedom. Makes me sick at the lack of compassion simply because they think the girls might have been prostitutes.

Being transported - trafficed , is not only for those who dont know what they are getting into . Those who are enslaved and put into prostitution through trafficing is severe, and every effort should be put in place to stop it and those responsible, dealt with as being reported today . The women trade workers here have not only the pressure of family and peers keeping them in the job but also drug abuse and fear of not getting their quota of customers for the place that employs them, but more common within the younger girls are the Thai boyfriends who live off their girlfriends earnings and beat the crap out of them if they dont come up with the money when they want some. . Those who work here in Thailand do have more of a say in what they are doing , personal choice . Those trafficed and forced into slave labour and prostitution have no say at all. Help is what is needed from every government in the world to really crack down and stop the tradeing of people. But as I said earlier , nothing will change here.

This is truly a sad story and we have similar problems in the UK with Eastern European women being tricked and trafficked for prostitution into the country. What confuses me is this; previously I have spoken with farrangs who reject the notion that some (not all) Thai women are trafficked from provinces into the cities for prostitution, most farrang suggest working girls are always there by choice. Yet there are numerous cases reported by charities of mafia paying families for girls and entrapment whereby the girl must work to pay off a bond or accommodation provided by the bar. The idea is that once in the bar the girl will be conditioned into a prostitute and not want to disappoint her parents by not sending money home from her supposedly great new job in the city. Obviously this is not the case for all girls, but I did meet a girl in samui who was conned into coming to take a job in bar, she returned home after 2 weeks by borrowing the money from another girl, so fact, it does happen. Is it to ease conscience that farrang ignore this fact. I imagine most trafficking and conning happens to the much younger girls and boys for that matter.

You have a Thai wife, someone I presume you have been with for some years and trust wholeheartedly. That is a great asset in itself, in terms of having a native partner who can negotiate and communicate in the native language. I know many farrangs who make good money doing business here, it would seem they are too busy making money to post on forums. Everyday I see why so many businesses fail, poor marketing, sub standard work ethics, poor quality of service , presentation, lack of an Ethical Code of Practice, I could go on. Because Thailand is a developing country of sorts, it makes itself very susceptible to obvious good business practice. It is the same all over the world, the rules do not change, be positive, find a niche market, work hard, do things properly and you will make money. Set definite SMART goals, you only need 500-1000 baht a day to live here if you are living as you described, if you and your wife put your minds to it you can achieve that very quickly and not have to dip into that 3.5m.

I am a consultant to small businesses and provide a Life Coaching service for individuals, I would be happy to offer free advice via email or even a free session to construct a plan for your future, if and when you need it.

Remember the fears of failure, criticism and poverty defeat most before they have even started. Read through many of the replies here and you will see a pattern, everybody talks about your money running out (the fear of poverty), only a few speak of the utilisation of that money. If you fear poverty then you will attract that. You may not be able to achieve the goal of 'big money' straight away but by setting a number of mini goals on the way to your ultimate goal you can easily sustain your life here and be

"Both poverty and riches are the offspring of thought" - Napoleon Hill

Rubbish, Rosetta Stone is a great starting point and has a great pronounciation recording facility where you follow the reader, record yourself and play it back. Coupled with help from Thai friends or GF etc this is a good place to begin, if you really get into it then true, you should get proper Thai lessons after that. I have learnt loads of words from the RS that have helped me communicate with Thai people.

Back in the UK i am monitored by CCTV over 50 times a day so this is minor.....if they are doing an immigration crackdown, can they send home the 3 farang bums that sit drinking every night outside the 7/11 on Soi Ragnam in Ratchawithi, they heckle passers , look filthy, need detoxing and should just go home and be alcoholics rather than make farangs look bad and the place look untidy ! I would bet my bottom dollar they are all on overstay anyway.

I am more concerned about men abusing poverty striken women, I hope she got some money out of it and her kids back in her province eat well for the week, what goes around comes around, that is the Buddhist wheel............enjoy your stay sex pests

I have had 3 in 3 days in my bathroom in BKK, any tips? Where can I buy mesh drain blockers? Or what can i put down there, will bleach and boiling water daily do the trick? Why have they come all of a sudden?

What a bunch of dim-witted censorious moralists!! You actually seem to think that the mere carrying of drugs is evil, and that taking them is terrible, and that this poor woman deserves this sentence. You obviously think that prohibition is sensible and right.

The "war on drugs" is an idiocy that has created most of the criminality in the world today and cost society untold billions and untold misery. Drugs should be decriminalised and state-controlled, with support and care for addicts. That policy would be an immense improvement on the current state of affairs worldwide (except in a few enlightened European countries), costing the whole lot of us far far less in taxes and suffering.

People who support the current drastic penalisation of drug-takers and drug-traders are simply out to lunch.

Oh praise be, I was reading through this thread and seriously worrying that the whole forum were fascists, finally someone posts something sensible. I often wonder how dictators and fascist regimes rise to power in the modern era, they do so off the back of self righteous, moralistic little hitlers, the sort of people who hold antiquated views on killing and incarcerating poeple who are victims of a system created and perpetuated by those that purport to care about society.

What seriously annoys me is that whenever these drug related stories come up British people post without even a thinking about our role in the Opium wars and general drug trade though Asia. I am a Brit and know full well we started something Asia has never managed to finish or deal with effectively.

anyone know if they will give free 60 day tourist visas outside the country again? I liked that

Ah Ah Ah.... what they should expect after all the mess they did ?

Sure to boost the tourism sector in their typical way to act, they will

make more difficult the Visas, for both tourists and foreign residents (which are the ones who generally can improve services, marketing, customer care etc etc)

make more difficult and complicate to acquire a properties here, rather then finally open their mind and finally allow

foreign to acquire till 1 Rai to avoid the typical speculator but to facilitate the ones coming over to spend the deserved

pension time or just to whom wish to invest some money here,

increase the domestic airfare rates which are really too high saying "amazing Thailand"

keep the taxis in island like Samui rip off the tourist as first welcome "this is Thailand" and

last but not least somehow they will burn off the next incoming peak season with some typical clever political moves...

Good luck Thailand, I still love you !

Glad you mentioned those Samui Taxis, 400 baht from the airport to my Bangrak apartment last time I went, thats £8 for a 2 minute journey, more expensive than London.....what a complete p**s take. I do feel sorry for the poorer working classes who may lose their jobs in the service sector because of this decline, what will they do for money because there sure isn't any job seekers allowance or decent social care in place. Perhaps now the country will accept its developing status, stop pushing for rapid globalisation and start helping its own people with better socail care, higher minimum wages, better education and higher taxes for the very wealthy to readjust the rich/poor divide.

I joined Now gym in Phayathai for 2500 (45 days) and that was a promotion ! The gym is alright and has decent weights & Machines but the changing rooms have no air con ! It is more expensive than my gym back in the UK. I cannot be bothered to go all the way to Suk or Ratchada for CA though, it's just too far. If anyone knows of any other good gyms near Victory monument please please let me know !

well if the UK cut Scotland loose as they so wish our economic problems would be solved

well I guess I have similar problem, I go to bed early I sleep about 12 hours and when I get up

I feel very tired I just don't like getting up at all so what is wrong with me?

Laziness?

classic

I have only recently discovered that the sex pests are in the minority, since I met up with a relative and her husband here I have been introduced to a completely different side of BKK. Everyday working Thais and farrangs who do not just speak about bar girls and actually spend their time contributing positively to Thai society, all different backgrounds and levels of wealth but importantly morally grounded, compassionate, fun, intelligent people. I think it is far too easy to come here and get in with the wrong crowd, or lose yourself in bars. Lets face it, you have to question the sanity of somebody who drinks all the time and surrounds themselves with prostitutes in seedy bars, then chooses to cast aspersions on a whole nation of women based on his experience of soi cowboy/nana etc.

Lets park a bus outside the nana with a sign " jobs in a chicken factory 8000 baht a month " and see how many girls leave the bar and get on the bus,.8000 baht a month would be a good wage in issan, but the bus will leave empty i bet,

And lets put a sign up saying Bar girls 20,000 baht and see how many Sex tourists leave the bar!

it may be spreading but the symptoms seem to be milder than the usual flu we get in the UK. The reason people died in Mexico initially was because of poor and slow access to medical treatment.

Remove the xenophobia.

I would implement an education program--targeting children (too late for adults)--to teach them that xenophobia, excessive greed, extreme nationalism, laziness, lying and cheating are wrong and will not benefit the country.

I had to look up the definition of Xenophobia:

Xenophobia is a dislike and/or fear of that which is unknown or different from oneself. A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples. Xenophobia is different from racism and ordinary prejudice in that someone of a different race does not necessarily have to be of a different nationality.

I asked my girlfriend a while back about why the country doesn't give foreigners the opportunity to own land. She said that foreigners would buy up all the land and the Thai people will have no where to live except in poor areas. I was surprised at this response because she was educated at the master's level. I informed her that many countries provide foreign ownership of land and do not have this problem. There seems to be a relationship on foreign ownership and prosperity of a country. So if Thailand were to provide foreign ownership of land, I concluded that the overall society would benefit through higher income, higher education, etc.

Of course I lost this argument. Now I know it is really due to Xenophobia.

Thailand escaped colonial rule, it has since had an ingrained fear of colonisation and being over run by foreigners, thus the Xenophobia.....

2 things that kinda go hand in hand.

1) Drop the innsessent Xeniphobia and protectionism.

2) Open up Thailand's forigen investment laws to mimic Dubai or mabey Hong Kong.

This will slove allot of problems from education & unemployment too makeing their currency more stable.

OH and drop that luxury import tax bullshit. The cars here suck and are insanely priced.... I want my Escalade dammit!

Have you see the state of Dubai lately? It is falling apart!

Not sure on the mastercard issue, but for those nearby there is a UOB bank still doing free withdrawals right before you turn into Pratunam market, it is on the right hand side if you are coming from ding daeng (probably spelt wrongly).

good luck, your English is great by the way...better than many native English people I have encountered

All the best, I hope you get the visa and have a fantastic time!

He was into Martial Arts yes, not sure what else he was into though!

Wing Chun is great for health, mental strength and self defence. You do not need to be strong, in fact you learn to use your opponents strength against them. It is widely viewed as the most efficient and effective fighting form. Any age , male or female can learn, great fun! And I should add that the Lasalle fighting school have extremely good prices, they offer the same price to Thai people and Farangs. 1,200 Baht per month and you can train up 6 days per week.

They also do Tai Kwon Do at the same club if people are into that.

cheers

There is an old thread on this forum with people looking for Wing Chun classes in Bangkok, the information in that thread is dated and the class recommended on there has stopped running.

However, after a long search I have found a new place for Wing Chun in Bangkok with a great teacher who speaks English and German. He caters for all levels of proficiency and is genuinely a nice person. If you require Private tuition, that can also be arranged. The club itself has a very warm and welcoming family vibe with people of all ages. It is kitted out with mats and mirrors and has a punch-bag, punching posts and a wooden dummy.

It is located opposite Lasalle College on Sukhumvit 105, the closest BTS is On Nut and then you need to jump in a taxi/motorbike taxi or bus for a few mins. If you have any further questions then contact Panor - 0863082182.

Cheers

Interesting, when i lived in Samui for a while I was invited to 2 birthdays, both had the traditional cake with candles and there was a BBQ with plenty of drink. I guess it depends on the westernisation of the person ? Perhaps......

guilty sometimes but i try not to do it in public as it makes her look silly. My GF has a degree in Thai and she doesnt dumb down for me so i really should not do it to her.....i hear my mate doing it with his gf and it sounds so patronising yet i am guilty at times...i will make a concerted effort to stop !

The Street Elephant – National Symbol or Tortured Soul?

It doesn’t seem like a bad job. In fact, it would be near perfect for me. Chilling out during the day, starting work at 4pm, being fed constantly, plenty of affection from passers by and lots of exercise. Sadly for Bangkok’s Street Elephants, I doubt they feel anywhere near as positive about their career path, for this is not a life they would have chosen.

Elephant feet were not designed for trudging through the urban jungle. Nor were elephant lungs designed to inhale the traffic pollution which causes Street Elephants serious respiratory problems. Bangkok is a completely unnatural and dangerous environment for its Elephants: strange noises, flashing lights, motorbikes, lorries and cars, barking soi (street) dogs, not to mention the lack of any natural water resource to keep them cool. It is no wonder there have been reports in recent years of Street Elephants becoming aggressive or simply going plain berserk. Speaking to locals on this very subject, I am informed that difficult Elephants are often sedated to induce a calm personality, thus reducing the risk of behavioural problems. I can only assume such drugging causes long term cerebral damage to an Elephant.

There are reportedly up to 20 road traffic accidents involving Street Elephants every month in Bangkok. In October 2008, a seven year old Elephant, Plai Boon Mee, died along with a 16 year old boy after being hit by a drunken driver. Elephants frequently hurt themselves by treading on broken glass, and due to their enormity, cut and graze themselves by stumbling or bashing into city obstacles.

The Elephants usually start working the streets at around 4pm. During the rest of the day, they are left to graze in unsuitably small urban grass areas or derelict sites with little food and hazardous rubbish left by fly tippers. Elephants are left outside in the boiling heat without adequate shade, this leads to sunstroke and extensive sunburn. Seldom will an Elephant receive the 60 gallons of water required each day to keep them hydrated; many resort to drinking polluted river water or dirty water found in the street.

When Thailand banned logging in 1989, many Mahouts (driver and keeper of an elephant) and their Elephants had to find alternative employment. This saw a number of Mahouts take to the city streets, enticing tourists to interact with the Elephants in exchange for money. This trend has continued, spawning an industry of organised Elephant rental and an increase in migration of Elephants to the cities.

It is easy to point the finger at both ends of the spectrum when it comes to this subject. On one hand, I resent the Elephant keepers. Taking Elephants out of their natural environment and using them as a tool to make money is incredibly cruel. On the other, I resent the incorrigible tourist who pays money to feed, pet and picture the Elephant as a supposedly exciting holiday experience. Both parties are part of a vicious cycle where demand meets the need of supply. There will always be an excitable tourist, and, unless drastic action is taken, there will always be a poor Elephant owner.

In Thailand it is safe to say the Elephant will always have a meal on the table. Thai people love Elephants and traditionally have a huge respect for this national symbol. I have often seen Elephants being fed scraps and leftovers by restaurant owners and street traders. Unfortunately, this random and sporadic diet is detrimental to an Elephant’s health, bad for their digestive system and can cause food poisoning. Despite the food hand outs by locals, keepers would not be able to live without the tourist buck. Without it, the Elephant would ultimately be abandoned and if lucky, picked up by a rescue organisation. However, if the owner has no Elephant, they have no trade, no money, no food and nothing to support their family. The vicious cycle continues.

I recently encountered a four year old Elephant with two of my friends who were on a fly through visit to Bangkok. The Elephant had a blank CD disc tied to its tail in an effort to provide some sort of extra ‘cute’ marketing attraction. It was most disturbing. Three men nonchalantly walked the Elephant down the street and asked us for 100 Baht to take a picture. Considering the minimum wage is just over 200 Baht a day, that is not a bad little earner for a minute’s work. The Elephant looked somewhat bewildered, slightly nervous but fairly trusting of its keeper. Local people looked on from a bus stop as the Elephant was ushered between a footbridge stairwell and a row of food sellers. Concerned, but used to seeing this sight, everybody went about their business as usual. Nothing pulls at the heart strings quite like a young and naive animal that appears so trusting of those that seek to abuse it.

Unfortunately, I have come across many Street Elephants in Bangkok. Only yesterday I saw a fully grown Elephant being led down a dangerously narrow walkway by a busy road. The Elephant was suddenly startled by several barking soi dogs that seemed to appear out of nowhere. Fortunately, the Elephant remained composed but was clearly uneasy, as was I. Following this incident, I was determined to find out just what the authorities were doing to combat the cruelty.

In fairness, the Thai Government have tried to address this issue in numerous ways, but always seem to fall short of seeing the initiatives through. In 2002, Mahouts and their Elephants were offered jobs as rangers in National Parks, however, the project lacked the necessary funding and it was said the Mahouts suffered from loneliness. In 2006, another initiative named ‘Bring Elephants Home’ was set up in the Surin province. Surin is home to approximately a quarter of Thailand’s domesticated Elephants. Mahouts were offered 8,000 Baht per month to relocate with their Elephants and settle into a designated area of Surin. The initiative took a turn for the worst though when complaints that the area lacked sufficient tall grass and water saw the take up of 181 Elephants in the first year drop to 61 by 2008.

Considering the average full time wage for a shop worker in Surin would be about 6-7,000 Baht, the Mahouts were ostensibly offered a very attractive financial package. I just cannot comprehend why the initiative did not do more in terms of planting the right food or selecting a better location, and providing the obvious necessity of an adequate water supply. My feeling is that some Mahouts may have used these points as exit excuses, choosing the more lucrative illegal option of earning 2,000 Baht per day walking the Elephants in the Red Light Districts of Thailand’s cities.

In 2006, the Thai Government set up the ‘Stray Elephant Task Force’ to support the ‘Bring Elephants Home’ initiative. Members of this force deemed the job unsafe, claiming that it was extremely difficult and dangerous to interfere between an Elephant and its Mahout. The Police have a similar attitude, fearing an angry Mahout may startle their Elephant, a 300 Baht fine is really not worth endangering the public. It is almost 20 years since the logging industry ceased trading. There are currently around 4,000 domesticated Elephants in Thailand and an increasing number are being migrated from poor rural villages to the urban streets in the name of money. For all the Governments efforts in the last seven years, nothing has changed.

In my eyes, there is now no alternative solution except a final solution, and a humane one at that. Street Elephants should be confiscated without a second chance for their keepers. The Elephants should be re-homed in national parks or sanctuaries outlawing this practice completely. There is simply no excuse for this practice to exist in the year 2009, the Thai Government has the money and resources to solve this problem efficiently. After Elephant confiscation, Mahouts and their helpers should be offered the chance of a new career. A back to work scheme which provides training and monetary support while they learn new skills should be implemented.

The current situation just exists as another reminder of the huge gap between provincial poverty and urban wealth that the country refuses to address. Is it not about time the dignity of this cultural symbol of national pride was fully restored?

You can donate money to help save the Street Elephants by Gogling Eleaid.

ctrlaltshift.com

if you have nothing to hide then why be bothered, at least it keeps a track of riff raff, it also makes it easier for western police to trace sexpests and other criminals living here. I would quite like to speak with the local bobby and have a cup of tea, maybe he would let me get a picture holding his gun I wish this would happen in the UK , then we might not have the problem of not knowing where the 6 million illegal immigrants are.

I have recently renewed my stay in BKK and there has been no knock on the door yet.

Admittedly the large proportion of 'bar girls' hail form the Isaan region and considering the poverty and lack of government social care for single parents it is not surprising women are forced into exploitation. However, the ignorant comments that stereotype all ladies from Isaan as women who would go with any farang just because of money are rubbish. I do hear a number of stories whereby farangs have been ripped off by Thai women, but when you take a closer look into each story you see the same trends, ageing gentlemen falls for young beautiful femme fatale. Unfortunately most guys are just as naive as they are stupid to believe that the lady sought anything other than financial security with them. On the flip side I speak with many Thai women who have given all to a farang and only received a broken heart in return.

Any person in a position of economic disadvantage dreams of meeting their knight in shining armour who will relieve years of hardship, but they also want to be loved and respected and to give love back. It is no crime to want for a better quality of life and this is not exclusive to Thailand.

My girlfriend is from the Isaan region, luckily for her the family broke their backs to send her to University and she now works hard doing an honest 9-5 job, it is still fairly low money but she and her family are very proud. She would never settle with anyone just for money and I am certainly not rich. She never asks me for money and is the least materialistic woman I have ever been out with. She would never settle for less than somebody faithful and hard working who respected her.

I think there is truth in the rejection of Thai men by Isaan women because there is some truth in their negative behaviour towards women. My girlfriend left her ex, a Policeman who had plenty of money (tea) after she discovered he was frequenting naughty Karaoke bars. But let’s face it this is not exclusive to Thailand, in the UK men and women rich and poor do the dirty on each other, and most men spend far too much time down the pub instead of quality time with their partner. My GFs sister and her Thai husband are both uneducated and poor, they both work full time to support their child, he is an honest hardworking family orientated guy from Isaan, in fact he is the model father. I believe the majority of Isaan parents want their children to be happy before being wealthy, sure they want them to be secure and have a decent standard of living, but if that means being with someone they do not love who is twice their age I very much doubt they would feel good about that. When I first met my GF, her mother said to her “I don't care if he is farang or Thai, rich or poor, as long as he treats you well". This is the natural attitude of a parent.

These surveys are distorted in that they ask a leading question to entice the answer they require. If you asked 500 women in London, who they would rather date, an English working class (sorry to use that term) labourer who drinks in his local on weekends, or a foreign multinational company director, do you not think that wealth would be at the brink of all their minds.

When women think about a long term partner of course they consider wealth, it is natural to want a hunter who can provide for a family. When I think about my ideal partner I think of an independent woman who can fend for herself. I am quite impressed that the Thai women in the survey cited faithfulness and respect as reasons for wanted a farang.

When I have previously met women in London the first question is always “what do you do for a living”? It is engrained in western culture that wealth equates to success, if I say banker then her eyes light up, if I say dustman then she is instantly not so keen, sad but true. So lets not point the finger at these women because our women are equally as bad if not worse. Prime example, my old next door neighbour will not divorce her husband because she wants to hang on to the Mercedes even though she is desperately unhappy.

Stereotyping is born out of ignorance, insecurity or negative experience, if you frequently hang around in mafia owned sex tourists areas to meet women then expect to run into problems, however I am sure there are some lovely women in these areas who have just fallen on bad times and would probably make great GFs.

Lastly, what strikes me as odd is that everyone points the ‘money grabbing’ finger at the poorer provincial women, I have a few friends that date ‘high society’ Thai women and believe me I have seen some spoilt, materialistic money grabbing behaviour on that side of the fence. However, not everybody can be tarnished with the same brush. For the most part I think Thai women are fabulous people, there is bad and good the world over, be an individual and make your mind up. Think positively and project positive energy and the world will return the same, think negatively and cast stones at others and expect negative experiences to follow you around.

Cheers