bunuel

Sorry, but having taught for many years at Fashion Institute of Technology, where the 90% female students know far more about what is appropriate attire than any male administrator or politician, I must say it is time for Thai univerisity students to shed these demeaning uniforms and wear whatever the hell they want. I must also confess I spent a few months teaching at an English language university in LOS, and it was the most depressing educational experience I have had since boarding school; to preserve my self respect, I quit, and got a far better job in another country. Bottom line is that Thai students need to decide if they want to learn or merely become brown nosing kow towers. Their administrators have failed them miserably, so it is up to the Thai students if they want to have self-respect like their colleagues in Hong Kong.

quote name="cup-O-coffee" post="8509470" timestamp="1412870342"]

I don't know. I sort of have mixed views about this.

Girls showing off their body parts is one thing... doing it in the name of their alma mater is another.

I think there is a time and a place for everything and this is not one of those times or places for it.

I think any educational institution of repute would warn their students once about attire and then give them the boot if they do not comply. The reason for this is simple; educational institutions are not only there to teach the sciences, engineering and such, but also to prepare our children for assimilation into society with etiquette, respect for self and others, among many other moral and ethical standards.

Letting the students do this is giving the institution a bad reputation and image; and everything it has worked for to attain a higher standard of excellence is simply being corrupted by mixing this behavior with it.

There are fathers out there who love their daughters and when sending them to places like this would more than likely not want this going on around their daughters. I would certainly be one of them.

This, to me, is simply another black mark for Thai education, if you can call it that, and in my view, no self-respecting father, who wants his daughter to become self-reliant and successful woman, would send his little girl to a place like this.

Not me. No way. I am not a prude by any means, but as I said, there is a time and a place for everything and this is not one of those times or places for it.

Critical thinking is extinct in LOS.

uote name="alfalfa19" post="8480064" timestamp="1412353937"]

Clearly these guys were tortured into confessing. Now, everybody is supposed to live happily ever after like in a fairy tale???? And now the tourists will flock back to the island? And I read somewhere else that Prayuth is going to give the cops a reward? For first-rate torture techniques I reckon. The people that buy this whole debacle with its "happy ending" must have failed critical thinking in college, if they even ever attended college.

Does anyone know what the UK Ambassador actually said?

Hard to believe these were his worsds!

quote name="notbkk" post="8475793" timestamp="1412304737"]

Mr. Kent went on to praise the Royal Thai Police in solving the case and have shown exemplary professionalism as a crime fighting unit.

People from the UK must be so proud of their ambassador to Thailand.

Yes, and the case has NOT been solved. "Innocent until proven guilty", Mr Ambassador! DNA tests only out "tomorrow". Trial awaiting!

Er, were those the UK Ambassador's words, or have they been " paraphrased? "

" Exemplary professionalism"?!! Diplomatic niceties aside, hard to believe he

would lay it on that thick - especially in this codswallop of a case!

Mr. Kent went on to praise the Royal Thai Police in solving the case and have shown exemplary professionalism as a crime fighting unit.

People from the UK must be so proud of their ambassador to Thailand.

Great idea! I am frankly astonished that such a school does not already exist. Such schools do exist in countries like Egyot, Turkey , Peru and South Africa, and they could be used as models. Guides must go

through a rigorous curriculum which teaches them about their own culture, as well as the culture and

mores of the tourist group they are going to specialize in. ( ie German, Japanese, etc)

After a few years, graduates become the ONLY LICENSED GUIDES, which provides economic incentive for taking the training. Being a guide without this license is ILLEGAL. Have visited all of the countries I memtioned, and all of the guides were excellent.

If NCPO really wants to reform the Thai tourism industry, they should order the creation of such a Guide School immediately - as the military dictators did in Turkey and Egypt.

Then they need to create a Police Academy to protect the poor tourists!

Why don't the Thai Tourism Authority train official guides for visiting groups?

They could set up a special school, only accepting those with fluency in a foreign language and customs.

The school should be open to any nationality where they could get the knowledge of Thai culture, places etc.

It would be a great investment for Thailand. Looking after this valuable commodity would pay huge dividends.

Thai people would be eligible only if they had true bi-lingual skills. e.g. children of foreigners would be ideal.

This is the only way to ensure that tourists have a half - pleasant visit and propagate the tourist industry.

Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like

must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation.

I guess Western ideas like this would fall on deaf ears?

Hopefully the military will read this and do something constructive ..

but they do have a hell of a lot on their plate right now.

"Leaving it to local thugs and idiots to "guide" unsuspecting tourists into gem shop scams and the like, must do enormous damage to Thailand's already soiled reputation."

All too true. I experienced this myself two years ago when a Belgian friend of a certain age came to visit

me in Jomtien. She told me that seeing Angkor Wat was high on her bucket list, so we arranged for a

fairly expensive 5 day tour with what seemed like a " reputable " Thai tour operator on Beach Road in Jomtien. Total cost was more than 15,000 baht - all -inclusive.

Trouble began immediately with the first driver, who couldn't " find " our house for the 7 am pick-up.

My Thaj wife gave him directions several times, and he finally showed up. I decided it was time to

lay down some ground rules, so I made clear to the driver that his passenger was a very dear family member , and that I wanted him to take very good care of her. My Tony Soprano imitation had the desired effect,

and there were no problems en route to Cambodia.

Once she was in Cambodia, the Cambodians took over, and they seem to take their tourists far more seriously than LOS. Personally, I see Cambodia as a failed state, and have no interest in even visiting,

but my friend gave them surprisingly good reviews.

The trip back to Jomtien was another story. As soon as she crossed the Thai border, she got a Thai driver who was rude, and threatening. He even wanted to drop her off in the middle of the night on Soi Watboon

rather than take her the additional hundred or so meters to our house! After a long exchange with my wife on the phone, angry words and threats were exchanged - and finally the SOB brought her to our house.

Bottom line is that paying clients should not have to resort to threats and intimidations to get drivers to do their jobs. What would have happened to my friend had she been on her own? She is a nice lady who has worked with elections in many Third World countries, and was a paying customer. She deserved far better treatment - and I was surprised to learn that her treatment in Cambodia was better than LOS.

uote name="ChiangMaiThai" post="8441755" timestamp="1411720257"]

Welcome to the land of warm smiles and gentle hospitality. Yeah, I've been here too long and have become cynical, but for good reason - in my mind anyway.

Yes, I know there is violence everywhere. But here's the difference. There is a facade of genuine friendliness in Thailand that the TAT and associated industries exploit to no end. I'm not saying that there aren't sincere, happy, friendly Thais. That's what brought me here in the first place and keeps me here.

What I am saying that there is a huge undercurrent of self entitled, violent, emotionally unstable individuals, especially amongst the males and especially in the tourist spots of Phuket, Samui, Phagnan, Koh Tao, and Pattaya that represent the very real and very ugly side of Thailand. They will not hesitate to extort, frame, threaten, attack, and more based on the slightest provocation. And they'll be smiling all the while.

In turn, the US envoy should thank Thailand for offering to send ground troops to fight ISIS.

And express appreciation for Thailand's understanding of US need to illegally bomb Syria!

Have written a bit about travel safety and tried to offer advice to travelers in dicey destinations like Brazil and South Africa, which are genuinely dangerous in terms of violent crime. Problems arise when Westerners see a beach and think they are in a "resort" - which is certainly not the case in , say, Rio de Janieiro, where all the criminal elements of Brazil go to the beach to rob the tourists.

A similar phenomenon seems to be at work in LOS on the islands known for their full moon parties. What could be easier for a predator than to ambush a drunken or high farang on an isolated beach in the middle of the night? The bit difference seems to be rhe chronic state of denial which plagues the Thai authorities. Brazil may have all sorts of problems, but at least they admit they

exist, and advise tourists to be careful where appropriate. Brazil has also had a number of major public education campaigns designed to get the population to respect tourists. LOS would be well advised to learn from the experience of other countries in both preparing visitors and changing the attitude of the Thai population towards farang ( known as " gringos" in Brazil) . That much said. the roads in Thailand are the second most dangerous in the world , statistically speaking - and are the biggest threat to your safety.

20-25 million tourists come to Thailand every year, 5-6 of them die, big deal, thats less than 1 in 4-5 million. Its not an unsafe country for tourists, definitely safer than most countries in this planet.

http://travel.amerikanki.com/worlds-most-dangerous-vacation-destinations/

And thailand is not even on the list.

People get killed everywhere be it in New York, London, Toronto.

2 years ago an american tourist was killed in Istanbul, does this make Istanbul an unsafe city? No in fact its safer than most cities, there are cameras everywhere.

Thailand doesn't deserve this bad publicity, and you can be sure it won't have a impact on tourist arrivals, where are those 60-70 year old sex tourists gonna go? Cambodia? yeah I bet its much safer over there.

Actually, Thailand is officially the second most dangerous place in the world to drive. If you have ever driven here, you would know why!

As for personal safety, I have never had any problems in LOS, but i try to be street smart and avoid problems. The issue here is the safety of Western kids coming here for the beach scenes in the islands. Don't know rhe numbers, but seems to be a considerable chunk of the foriegn market, and should not be confused with the Geezer Sex Trade, which is a completely different demographic!

Thailand can't have its cake and eat it too. The PM has previously stated that he wants to revive the tourist industry to previous standards. Many, if not most, foreign tourists like to go to the beach and many, if not most, female beach goers wear a bikini at some time or other. They are not going "everywhere", they are going to the beach.

If you don't want foreign bikini clad women on your beaches, then say so and accept the tourist arrival consequences. There are Muslim countries who do just that and fine, that's what they want, no problem. Is it what Thailand wants?

Tourists in bikinis, or reduced arrivals. Which is it to be?

And whilst posting, the Brits should be raising concerns that the only possible suspects being examined by the police are foreigners. In fact, to go by what one policeman said, Thai nationals are ruled out of suspicion. Now THAT is something to be concerned about.

This is the heart of the matter.

If Thailand wants to continue to sell itself as a BEACH DESTINATION, then foreign tourists - both male and female - must be safe from local predators Period.

If Thailand cannot assure the safety of foreign tourists in destinations marketed as beach resorts, then the travel industry will find other destinations in other countries which care about their clients.

In this case, the spotlight of world media attention is on LOS ; sadly, both fhe military rulers and the police

have made a dog's breakfast of a very delicate situation, resulting in a tsunami of bad publicity, which, in turn, will be bad for business. Travel industry professionals have to deal with public perceptions, and public relations firms make millions of dollars trying to enhance the images of unsavory destinations.

Howevef, first you have to admit you have a problem; unfortunately, denial is a way of life among the LOS Pooyai - both in and out of uniform.

I keep posting it but whatever,

Somebody posted on Hannah's original Facebook stating why the where killed that night, they said that in the bar a local Thai was hitting on Hannah and Dave got in a argument with the Thai.

The Thai left and was hiding on the beach with a friend waiting for them to leave around AC bar.

Everybody I know on Koh Tao who works there left the same day because all bartenders are foreigners with

no work permits, they all say this is what happened. It's sad you don't hear about this in the news.!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Sometimes the simple explanations are the best.

However, if this is true, then all those bartenders should go and report this to the police. They have important evidence in a double murder case and a moral responsibility.

Running away like a bunch of cowardly kids because of no work permit is NOT AN OPTION.

In the worst case they would be deported back to their home country. Big deal. Two people are not going to make it back alive.

The police are looking for a double murderer.

Easy for you to say - but you don't know whom they might have seen. If it was a pooyai family member, they might have good reason to be afraid -either for their lives or for being set up as fall guys.

Either way. this scenario is the most plausible, and therefore the most likely - though anything is possible, of

course...

The job of an ambassador in any country is to maintain cordial relations with the government of the host country. This was the case when Yingluck Shinawatra was Prime Minister, and it remains the case. A meeting means absolutely nothing per se; the General would be well advised to avoid putting too many words in the mouths of the ambassadors, who cannot comment or reply, due to the nature of their johs. Just as Ambassador Kinney was erroneously attacked and reviled by the PDRC for supporting the democratically elected government of Yingluck, her meeting with General Thanasak should not be seen as approval of the coup. Policy is made in capitals like Washington and Tokyo, and not in embassies in Bangkok.

Being a old bloke I think Thailand would be a dud place to retire if you had a Farang wife the same age as yourself, I think anywhere would be dud to retire if I had a Farang wife the same age as me, and I don't think that is just me.

Would all the knockers tell me a better country than Thailand to retire for old blokes, because that is what most retirees in Thailand are, that is cheaper, more friendly, better weather, a better country for ugly old blokes like me to get very accommodating beautiful young women, a country with more easy and cheaper immigration rules for retirement, cheaper accommodation, and for the blokes that drink alcohol that is more easy to get and cheaper to buy and you can drink it anywhere, even on the days you are not allowed to.

A country that is better that Thailand with all the above not just one or two things, I would really like to know because I can not find one, if there is one I going there.

While it is a matter of personal taste, Ecuador and Costa Rica are certainly worth considering. I know CR, and it is grear.Might have to pick up some Spanish, but a lovely Tica will help you in CR. Beaches and nature surpass anything in LOS, and , by the way, they abolished their army half a century ago!

"Japan will vote for Thailand when it applies for membership for the 2016-2018 United Nations Human Rights Council term"

This may be an empty promise by Japan in exchange for more material benefits from Thailand. And for Thailand to have a serious chance at membership would require a lot of change in the Junta's governance of the nation. There might be a number of hurdles Thailand may face with gaining membership to HRC:

1) Membership in the Council is elected by the majority of members of the General Assembly of the United Nations through direct and secret ballot. The same democratic

process that the Junta currently withholds from its citizens at least well into 2015.

2) The General Assembly takes into account the candidate States contribution to the protection of human rights. Thailand's track record on human rights up through the governance of the country by the current Junta hardly points to a stellar leadership on human rights issues. The Junta's continued martial law, absolute control over the branches of government, and suppression of freedom of speech may be cause for concern by some of the UN members.

3) The General Assembly takes into account the candidate States contribution to the promotion of human rights, as well as their voluntary pledges and commitments in this regard.The Junta has been very prodigious in its pledge and commitment in this regard. But Thailand's continued use Lese majeste, Defamation, and Computer Crime Act laws to challenge citizen freedom of speech makes its promotion of human rights less than enviable.

4) HRC members help UN member states meet their human rights obligations through dialogue, capacity building, and technical assistance. It's hard to export a philosophy that doesn't exist at home.

But there is cheer for Thailand looking over the current membership that includes China, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan. But a majority of the General Assembly might feel enough is enough with "bad boys" in the HRC to increase their numbers.

Many thanks for providing the procedural context for admission to the UN Human Rights Council. Can only add that the source for this story is also worth considering with more than a few grains of salt,given the source"s track record of factual massages.

Now if the Japanese Foreign Ministry were to confirm this " agreement", it might have substance!

There could a lot of ulterior motives.

Reinforcing the China economic domination in Africa thing.

China has taken the lead in that.

Owning the tourism infrastructure there, so taking out most of the profits.

Sending their masses to limited number of places so they are Chinese spaces ... avoiding too much alien influence and waking up to new ideas while abroad ... prevention of rocking the political boat ... the one party system there very badly wants to STAY in power.

Any others?

Reason NOT to go?

Ebola

Wonder how many posters here have actually been to Senegal. I did a press tour of the country two decades ago, and I was particularly impressed by the Casamance region South of the Gambia, which has fabulous beaches around Cap Skirring, and which already has a quality tourism infrastructure built by the French. Casamance, unlike the rest of the country North of the Gambia, is NOT a Muslim region, with most of the inhabitants practising forms of animism.

I also met with the Minister of Tourism and a number of tourism professionals, and was very impressed by their honesty and openness. They want to rid themselves of their dependence on the French market, and

the Chinese are a good alternative. The Chinese are already present in African countries in numbers as parr of the Chinese economic expansion there, and doubtless the Chinese already in Africa could use a beach resort catering specifically to Chinese groups and their needs - just as Cancun caters to Americans. By the way, the Chinese on the ground get along pretty well with Africans, and the Africans very much appreciate their cheap products and infrastructure projects.

Seems like a win-win !

Precisely.

As tourism clients, the Chinese are famous for traveling in groups, and for

not being big spenders. In other words, they are the low end of mass tourism.

This does not mean they are bad people in any way - but it does mean that

they should not be seen as economic equivalents of individual travelers from

other countries who spend more per capita.

Most countries prefer fewer tourists who spend more, rather than more tourists

who spend less. There is a place for mass tourism, but it needs to be managed

very carefully, because it can destroy the value of an otherwise attractive destination.

One need only visit Majorca or Gran Canaria to see the results.

Pattaya has great potential as a cultural destination - and the authorites should be

working hard to organize film festivals and legit (!) events in the performing arts to

improve the brand of the city. Trying to re-brand the Las Vegas of the Sex Industry

into a family friendly Thai Disneyworld is a Quixotic folly doomed to failure, but the

Arts World has always been open minded and tolerant of the demi-monde.

Hopefully, the new Minister of Tourism and Sports will take nofe!

I take it there are no sex guides in China? The story of the Chinese tour group in Chiang Mai loading their shopping bags with food from the hotel buffet table takes some beating. TAT loves the numbers game but Thai's just can't make any money out of Chinese .Trouble is the other foreigners are slowly wising up to the scams and staying away.

Prostitution, it is the oldest profession in the world.

If they want to reduce it (they will never eradicate it), they need to look at the root causes and eradicate poverty, and the root cause of that in Thailand is corruption.

I don't believe that poverty is necessarily the main driving force for much of the prostitution in Thailand, despite what prostitutes may tell their clients. In Pattaya there is a big problem finding and keeping workers for jobs like waiters, sale staff and cleaners etc. The turnover is very rapid and there are job vacancies advertised all over.

Prostitution is more of a cultural way of life for some - it is an easy way to make a living and can be much better paid than real jobs. It is sometimes a temporary solution to a financial crisis in a family but that is not saying it results from poverty and saying it does does not do justice to those who work very hard in low level jobs in Thailand for low pay and they still manage to support families. Likewise, eradicating high levels of poverty will not I think eliminate much of the prostitution. It's much more complicated than that.

While there might be some truth in what you are suggesting, I think any professional study of prostitution

anywhere in world history will point to economics as the determining factor. The sociological rule of thumb is simply that people will do what they have to do to survive. That much being said, the sex industry in Pattaya is so developed that any attempts at enforcement will only be the usual cosmetic crackdown in the " round up the usual suspects" tradition of Inspector Frenchy Renard of Casablanca.Doubtless the police commander is feeling the heat from the Buddhist Taleban, so he is compelled to make a statement. The reality, of course,

is that the sex industry has been the economic lifeblood of Pattaya for decades, and without it, the town would cease to exist.

To put this in perspective, imagine trying to ban gambling in Las Vegas or Macau! Aside from the chaos that would result from street level enforcment, you don't need to see "The Godfather " to know the big question is :

Who owns the casinos???

Same is true in Pattaya. Follow the money!

Time for Thailand to move from 19th century train systems to 20th century system.

Will they ever catch up???

In case you have not realized we are in the 21th century for 14 years now...but will you ever catch up????

Perhaps a more pertinent question here is will Thailand ever catch up?

That train left the station some time ago!

The Thai elite have been killing their own people for years and getting away with it, why on Earth did folks think it was going to be any different this time around?

There has to be some sort of accountability from politicians and military for the deaths, regardless of the circumstances at the time. In any civilised society this is a bare minimum. In ruling they have no jurisdiction they are preventing the truth from being known.

No doubt they will attempt to yet again foist this objectionable upper class twit who's father supported the odious dictator Suchinda upon the poor Thai populace. It runs in the Vejjajiva family.

Dark days ahead indeed as we have seen the rural Thais still haven't forgotten Democrat bitter medicine policies from the late 90's, and the cycle looks to continually repeat itself in the future, as they will never accept a government they haven't chosen, hence the attempts to cheat the system by the junta.

seems to bring back many old sayings

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones

If you want to play in the road do not complain if you get hit

yes some one has to take responsibility

but as many thais will tell you if Farlang where not there at the time it would not have happened

so is it not true if The Red shirts had not taken over the streets there would have been no deaths

Guess another saying is true

If you make your bed

you have to lie in it

My 5 bahts worth

A Laotian Buddhist saying seems a bit closer to home:

When the water runs high,

the fish eat the ants;

when the water runs low,

the ants eat the fish..

Or, as they say in New York:

What goes around, comes around..

The reason why you never see a Thai tv show that has corrupt cops, politicians, or military is that they are not allowed to broadcast shows with that content. It's strictly censored.

This is the heart of the matter. It will be " Round up the usual suspects" and then the case will be closed, and yet another victory for the Good Citizens of Bangkok will be declared. If they really wanted to educate the public, they should do a Thai version of " The Wire , with Jon Burdett as consultant, and make NO cuts.

Lester Freamon can do a PSA, reminding everyone " To follow the money! "

Since the whole notion of " Thainess" is inherently corruot, don't expect to see anything like this on Thai TV soon, but one can always dream!

As any student of international corruption knows, replacing one mafia with a rival mafia does not change ways of doing business which have been practised for centuries. While few business experts would openly support corrupt practises, perhaps they might agree that best one can realistically hope for was summed up by the late great Kwame Nkrumah when he said," The problem in Africa is not corruption - it is disorganized corruption."

The Chinese seem to be making a serious effort to tackle the problem, as indicated by their current investigation of their former
security chief, which breaks the unwritten law that retired senior officers cannot be prosecuted. Does anyone seriously expect the junta to initiate any similar investigations of corruption in the ranks of the retired generals who are now running the country?

Can't believe how naive you are. End of corruption. Are you mad, are you seriously proposing that the military in this country is less corrupt than politicians?[/quote]
 
I'm impressed so far. The cops and the politicians are all bent, that's a given. Yes, I would say the military is less corrupt. Possibly, far less corrupt. This clean-up in Phuket would have been over in a week if the military was corrupt. I'm very hopeful. I've seen nothing but good things.  
 [/quote]
Corruption in the Thai Army follows an exponential curve.
At the bottom we have the Privates - majority of the headcount, but little corruption as they have no power and little access to civilians/contractors.
In the middle, we have the Colonels - they enjoy major free-bies, and significant opportunities for self-enrichment.
At the top, all the Generals have assets which are incongruous with their salaries, and the most corrupt Generals are as bent as the dirtiest politicians.  Arm dealers have huge slush funds, dispensing a few stangs for each bullet bought, thousands for every rifle, and millions for larger items.
 
The only distinction is that the Army boys would die for their Monarch, whilst the Politicians would let others die to defend HM.[/quote]


An end to corruption???

Hate to burst your yellow bubble, but corruption has been part of the human existence since the mythic Garden of Eden, and will be with us until Doomsday. Anyone who says he or she will " put an end to corruption " is blowing smoke up your ass - as is anyone who advertises an ability to alter human nature.

Granted, there are varying levels of corruption in the world, and it is really a matter of personal preference.
In truly corrupt countries, like some in Africa. everything is for sale. If you are powerful and well connected, the system works fine. Otherwise, you've got problems, since there is no Rule of Law. Nobody pays policemen,so you rent your own and ask them to bring their AK 47s to help resolve disputes.

This is what they used to call Law of the Jungle in the good old days. Might makes right. My gun is bigger than yours. It is a matter of personal preference, but even in Africa, most people prefer Rule of Law,
because they have learned not to trust The Strong Man with thr Gun.

As the great African liberator Kwame Nkrumah said, " The probllem in Africa is not corruption; it is
disorganzed corruption,"