dumbnewbie

Please don't tell me that you think it's OK because they where drug dealers.

What about a persons right to trial by jury. What about a persons right to be considered innocent until proven otherwise.

I didn't say I approved. I'm just saying it's not a clear-cut case of 100% evil. If, for example, Thai police had gunned down even one person involved in "prostitution", I would have a huge problem with that, because that, to me, is a truly victimless crime.

Not so with drugs. Think of it this way: imagine your best friend, or sister, or daughter - a confused, somewhat rebellious teenager who just wants to fit in with a cool crowd - getting hooked on meth or some other serious drug. Since it's addictive, he/she cannot stop, until a few years later this person you loved is dead. Now how do you feel? Are you gonna feel bad if the police gun down a bunch of drug dealers? Probably not.

Great. Just what we need - more anti-male propaganda. (Those evil, depraved male sex-tourists, "exploiting" those poor third-world girls who could be slaving away in a rice field or a sweat shop instead).

How come they never make a documentary about all the women sex-tourists who go to places like Italy, Jamaica and Kenya to get their rocks off? How come that's fine and dandy? Just because they don't have to pay for sex?

To those voting Life Sentence or Multiple Life Sentence, how do you justify your verdict?

I'd suspect that crimes against humanity hold quite lengthy jail terms. That's a charge unlikely to ever reach court though, unfortunately.

I assume you're referring to the extra-judicial killings of drug dealers. If he's guilty of this, why wouldn't that charge reach court?

Anyway, I don't know if drug dealers can be counted as 'humanity'. You do understand the nature of the drug business, right? These are highly addictive substances which utterly destroy people's lives (and seriously mess up the lives of their loved ones as well).

Now to the extent that some innocent people may have been gunned down, that would be a real crime against humanity. But even then, you have to consider how many lives were likely saved as a result. If anywhere near 3,000 drug dealers were put out of business, it's likely that a multiple of that number of young people never started using drugs during that window of vulnerability when they were susceptible to peer pressure to try them.

I think foreigners have more reason to dislike Thaksin than the Thai people.

Why do you think this? (Not doubting you - I'm just asking).

Ease up, we're just having a bit of fun with you. When you show up with attitude and spoiling for a fight you make a target of yourself. Chill out a bit, don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is some kind of idiot, and you'll find plenty of intelligent conversation here.

You're right, man - thanks for going easy on me. I don't mean to come off that way, so I'll try to be more aware of the attitude I'm projecting and choose my words more carefully.

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

No....conspiracy theories again...

So there are no conspiracies? Ever? Everything is out there in the open, exactly as reported in the popular media?

If this was the case why did the UK pull his visa, and why has the US refused him entry ?

He headed for the UK because:

1. Significant property in the UK and easy of getting a visa (which it is if you have money.. )

2. The UK has a reputation of harboring political despots under the guise of human rights, and basically are a soft touch, and any self-respecting dictator knows this...

Once he was convicted by a legal count in Thailand his visa privileges where pulled in the UK, as guess the UK didn't want to be seen as harbouring a convicted criminal..

OK, but the U.K. also didn't arrest him and hand him over to the Thai government either, right? On the other hand, if Zimbabwe's Mugabe (for example) were overthrown and fled to the U.K., we would expect a very different reaction from the British government. Of course, Mugabe would never flee to the U.K. in the first place, but Thaksin did.

Governments do change course according to evolving circumstances. For the time being the U.K. and U.S. appear to have withdrawn support for Thaksin, but that doesn't mean they weren't behind him in the first place, hoping he would affect some kind of permanent regime change in Thailand. And it doesn't mean they aren't just biding their time now, waiting for things to play out, while in the meantime pretending to abide by the current Thai government's wishes.

I don't know anything - I'm just asking questions, trying to learn something. But taking the media at face value is generally a pretty naive thing to do. "Conspiracies", as you call them, are going on all the time. That's why every government has multiple intelligence agencies, to both counter and perpetrate "conspiracies", both domestic and foreign.

In the earlier time after the coup, the west was indeed sympathetic to Thaksin because of course western democracies cannot support military coups of any kind.

Haha - good one.

Um...another question. There's obviously a lot more to this whole Thaksin story. Who was behind him? He had close dealings with the Singapore government, and when he got in trouble in Thailand was given refuge in the U.K. of all places. Why the U.K.? And why did the BBC and CNN give him a forum?

The BBC is an interesting organization. They played a huge role in drumming up revolt against the Shah of Iran, leading to his ouster, and apparently also played a similar role in Iran recently, this time against the Islamist government they helped take power 30 years ago.

So I can't help thinking the British and American governments were behind Thaksin for some reason. Anyone agree? What might be the reason?

Maybe the OP is too embarrassed to ask for how-to instructions and this is his clever way of obtaining them?

Ha! Go choke yourself.

I guess intelligent debate is too much to expect in this forum. Guess I should stick to joking around from now on. More fun anyway.

Um... what were Thaksin's crimes again? Those of you who hate him so much, especially those of you who are not even Thai - why do you care? What exactly about Thaksin gets you so worked up? The fact that he and his wife may have been involved in some shady commercial transactions? That's no different from most Thai politicians, yet you're not worked up about the entire Thai political system - instead, you just hate Thaksin. So why? Is it because 3,000 drug dealers were supposedly executed during his time in office? OK, they should have been arrested, tried and jailed for life instead. But do you care as much about all the kids whose lives are destroyed by drugs? Or their families, friends, lovers, etc. who suffer from watching their loved ones struggling with addiction, disease and early, tragic death?

Help me understand why you guys hate Thaksin so much. I'm keeping an open mind, and will reserve my vote until I hear a lot more from both sides.

I think the Op needs to reflect on the words of Sir Winston Churchill, British politician (1874 - 1965)

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."

Actually, that's not true. Enlightened authoritarianism is highly preferable to many democracies. Compare countries with a history of enlightened authoritarian regimes like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, etc. with democracies like the Philippines, Mexico, etc. Or compare the People's Republic of China (post 1978) with democratic India.

Furthermore, what exactly is "democracy" anyway? Do you really think Western countries are ruled "by the people, for the people"? I'd say that's pretty naive. Instead, Western democracies are actually highly sophisticated authoritarian regimes with a "democratic" circus clever enough to fool most of the people most of the time.

Every government is run by a small clique of elite families. In primitive governments everyone knows exactly who they are (North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Libya, Syria, Saddam's Iraq, Saudi Arabia and other GCC oil sheikhdoms, Zimbabwe, etc., etc.), while in more sophisticated governments, the elites keep themselves well out of the spotlight, which shines instead on "politicians".

Well I see that my advice was wasted. You were right guys - I'm an idiot. My apologies.

All these posts and still nobody answered this question: wouldn't "auto-erotic asphyxiation" leave very visible marks on your neck the next day? David Carradine was scheduled to begin shooting for his next film the very next day!

Please tell me how it makes sense that he would hang himself in a closet with every risk of passing out and dying, or at the very least having alarming strangulation marks all around his neck the next day when he was to begin filming?

Keep in mind - all those around him said he was in great spirits, happy to be alive, and eager to begin his next film. His family and director immediately ruled out any possibility of suicide because they knew his mental state just prior to his death - he was anything but depressed or suicidal.

Furthermore, other accounts have him flirting with a couple of lady boys in the hotel bar that night just prior to his death.

I'm sorry guys, but the official story just doesn't make sense in light of all these other facts. And it's shocking to me that so many supposedly intelligent people are so willing to buy some disgusting story and just forget about it when it's clearly possible and even likely that he was murdered instead, and his murder is now being covered up.

What this means is that anyone could come into your hotel room, rob you, torture you to death, and then tie your naked corpse up in a closet in embarrassing position and the whole world will now say "oh yeah, he must've been some freak like that David Carradine".

"Only the paranoid survive" Andy Grove

Who said anything about "secret Kung <deleted> sects out to kill him"? Since you guys are such gullible smartasses, read this:

Was David Carradine Murdered by Lady Boys?

June 20, 2009 by Karen Jurewicz

Trying to figure out the cause of David Carradine's death is quickly becoming worthy of a Hollywood film. First, it was reported David Carradine committed suicide by hanging himself in a hotel closet. Many expressed strong doubts he had killed himself.

Within a couple of days news reports are saying it was not suicide, but a "sex accident" from engaging in autoerotic asphyxiation. This left people wondering if he was alone, or whether someone else had been there and fled the scene.

At the same time, whispers began hinting at murder. Meanwhile, the Thai police appear to change their ruling on David Carradine's cause of death to fit the headlines of the moment.

In my last article on David Carradine's death, I reported the Thai police said they had reviewed surveillance footage of the hallways near David Carradine's room. They said no one was seen entering his room. Maybe I am seeing a conspiracy where there is none, but my first thought was, "Does that mean they saw someone leaving his room around the time he died?"

The latest breaking news about David Carradine's death comes from David Winters. He is a movie producer who produced three of David's less-known martial arts movies. He believes the Thai police are trying to cover up the truth.

He says, "David Carradine was murdered...I strongly believe Lady Boys are responsible. Lady Boys operate in pairs. David would not have stood a chance. They can be very brutal."

Winters wants Bangkok authorities to release the hotel surveillance footage. He believes it may provide the answer to whether or not David Carradine was with anyone during the final hours of his life.

The Globe has hired Ted Gunderson, a retired FBI agent, to investigate David Carradine's death. He agrees with David Winters' murder theory.

Ted Gunderson says, "I want to see those tapes. My suspicion is they've already been doctored. I believe he(Carradine) met two Lady Boys in the hotel bar. They are flirtatious, desperate for money and would have zeroed in on a celebrity like Carradine."

Gunderson feels the Lady Boys drugged David Carradine, murdered him and staged the scene to look like a suicide. He says a footprint was found on the bed in the hotel room and feels it is the biggest clue in the investigation.

He says, "One of the Lady Boys may have stepped behind him, looped a length of rope around Carradine's neck and strangled

him."

Are we one step closer to the truth? If David Carradine was drugged, it explains why there were not any signs of a struggle in his room. Drugging him would be the only way to get close to him.

It seems we are one step closer to uncovering the truth in the tragedy of David Carradine's death. There are answers to some questions voiced by so many people. His death is not a suicide, and it was not an accident. The only conclusion left is he was murdered.

This leads to one more question in the ongoing drama surrounding David Carradine's death. Will his killers, ever be caught and brought to justice?

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1...ered.html?cat=7

Sounds a lot more plausible to me. I don't know much about auto-erotic asphyxiation, but I can't imagine why it would be necessary to hang yourself in a closet with your hands tied behind your back, or above your head, whichever it was. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make sense.

Why would the establishment be trying to cover it up? Oh I don't know... maybe because the Thai tourism industry is already hurting badly enough? Maybe they don't want the whole world to see that Thailand isn't as friendly and safe as it's made out to be by the industry? Maybe the owners of the hotel don't want a massive lawsuit on their hands for providing lousy security? None of these are good enough reasons?

You guys would rather believe that a guy who had everything going for him would do something so stupid at the risk of dying and embarrassing his family and fans and everyone who knew him? Help me understand that!

WOW. Let's review here, shall we? This is what the OP said, in her own words:

I am a single Chinese-American woman working for a multinational in BKK. I am in my forties, and in extremely good shape. Trim, fit and fashionable. And I am financially independent. My problem is I cannot seem to find any man to date me. And I know I am not bad to look at because I do get asked out everywhere else except in BKK!

I truly enjoy my work, but being a single foreign woman in BKK is tough. Should I ask my company to relocate me, or am I just not trying hard enough to meet men?

It would be interesting to hear from both men and women.

Thanks.

Some of you may want to read it again just in case. I've highlighted some important points to make it easier for you to comprehend what she's asking for.

I never claimed she was looking for marriage or a long term relationship, but she's clearly looking for more than intelligent conversation.

She asked if she should ask her company to relocate her, and I suggested that she might have an easier time of it in any of 8 different cities around the world that came to mind, only 3 of which were in the U.S.

Geez!

Isn't it interesting when some people (often newbies) become so flustered by assuming that others do not pay attention to the details because the newbie is, apparently, so much more aware than the rest of us? Rather than taking it as a 'teaching-moment-opportunity' to open up our minds to the insight that only they were capable of seeing, the newbie actually become exasperated.

Nah, that's not interesting. What's really interesting is how "advanced members" love to gang up on newbies and harrass them. What's up with that? Afraid we'll de-throne you oldsters? Like anybody cares.

All I did was try to help out the OP by giving my perspective. Why do you have to mess with me? How are you making the forum a better place? Peace off.

Whether he was choking the chicken or bashing the bishop is no longer relevant.

Or wanking his willie!

Sure, maybe he was spanking the monkey (wee!). But maybe not. Maybe he was was doing nothing of the sort, but was murdered, and the police have been trying to cover it up with this ridiculous story, designed to squelch curiosity because it's so strange and embarrassing. I would think that would make the story extremely relevant to any expat living in Thailand, because that would say something about the kind of place Thailand is and what can happen to any one of us there. If that could happen to someone like David Carradine (wealthy, well-connected, about to start shooting his next movie the very next day), and in a high-end hotel no less, and if there is a pattern of this kind of thing happening over many years to many foreigners in Thailand, then surely none of us should feel safe.

Surely you guys have heard of many other suspicious deaths of foreigners in their Thai hotel rooms? Does it cause you no concern?

WOW. Let's review here, shall we? This is what the OP said, in her own words:

I am a single Chinese-American woman working for a multinational in BKK. I am in my forties, and in extremely good shape. Trim, fit and fashionable. And I am financially independent. My problem is I cannot seem to find any man to date me. And I know I am not bad to look at because I do get asked out everywhere else except in BKK!

I truly enjoy my work, but being a single foreign woman in BKK is tough. Should I ask my company to relocate me, or am I just not trying hard enough to meet men?

It would be interesting to hear from both men and women.

Thanks.

Some of you may want to read it again just in case. I've highlighted some important points to make it easier for you to comprehend what she's asking for.

I never claimed she was looking for marriage or a long term relationship, but she's clearly looking for more than intelligent conversation.

She asked if she should ask her company to relocate her, and I suggested that she might have an easier time of it in any of 8 different cities around the world that came to mind, only 3 of which were in the U.S.

Geez!

Thailand is a sketchy place, and becoming more so. Many foreigners turn up dead there in very mysterious circumstances.

His manager and family all said he was in great spirits and cannot believe he would commit suicide, which was the first official verdict. Later an independent autopsy ruled out suicide, but not "foul play", which I take to mean other people may have been involved. The latest I heard was that two lady boys robbed and killed him, then tried to make it look like he died accidentally.

As for this "auto-erotic asphyxiation" theory - does anyone know how that works? I mean, really - wouldn't he have been found lying in his bed if he were masturbating with a rope tied around his neck? Do you really have to hang yourself in a closet in order to masturbate? Wouldn't anyone with the least bit of common sense realize that if you passed out while hanging yourself to get off you would not likely ever wake up? And wouldn't that leave very visible marks on your neck the next day when he was scheduled to begin shooting for his next film? And why would he be masturbating in Thailand of all places? Thailand is one of the easiest places in the world to hook up with someone, no matter what your fancy, all the more so if you're a rich, famous American actor!

What's the latest news on the investigation into David Carradine's death?

Right from the start those closest to him said they absolutely didn't believe the first official report (auto-erotic asphixiation - whatever). That didn't make any sense to me either, for a number of reasons. I want to know what really happened, and I want to know that justice is done.

I tried to search the forum for this topic, but it seems there are too many threads and most of them died some time ago. Perhaps this thread could serve from now on as a place for the latest news and discussion of this topic?

I just read through this entire thread. The OP did get some good general advice about meeting people, networking, etc. which would apply no matter where she lived. However, from my perspective, she's probably living in one of the toughest countries for someone like her to find a quality guy for a quality relationship. I mean really - it's THAILAND! It would be like me (American guy w/ sub-par social/dating skills) hoping to find a nice girl in Italy. Not impossible, I'm sure, but what are the odds with all the competition? I mean, Italy is famous with women all over the world for having hot guys, right? Why would I want to compete in that arena?

I'm sure it's POSSIBLE for OP to meet a great guy in Thailand. But if she's already feeling bad about herself due to lack of attention, and if she's reduced to platonic dates with a 60 year old guy, I'd suggest that she might be doing herself a huge favor if she could get transferred to another place - just about any place would have to be better for a woman than Thailand (unless she's REALLY into Thai culture and Thai guys, but it doesn't sound like she is).

If I were her, I'd try New York City or Silicon Valley, both having a lot more guys than girls in the dating pool, and also a lot of highly educated, intellectual, affluent men who'd be very interested in an attractive, intelligent 40-something Chinese-American woman. Washington D.C. could be another good choice - plenty of jobs there too, from what I hear. Not all in government either - a lot of high-tech and other companies are in the suburbs, and being a capital city, it's actually a very cosmopolitan social scene, with people from every country in the world rotating in for several years job assignments.

Other places which come to mind: Dubai, Doha and other rich GCC cities - tons of wealthy expats, not so many expat women (and even fewer Asian women, which could make you a very hot item indeed) and the local women are completely off-limits. Even Singapore, Hong Kong, Shanghai, etc. must be better than Bangkok for her.

Also, someone early on insinuated that her American citizenship might be to her detriment socially. I'd have to respectfully disagree. Even those who hate American foreign policy generally like individual Americans and would jump at the chance to visit the U.S., and maybe live there once they see what it's really like.

Anyone agree with any of this?

Is it true that one night in Bangkok can make a hard man humble? (Or Boy George tumble?)