Rumfoord

The engineer's parents are friends of Thaksin. When the Cambodians made the arrest they presumably weren't aware of this. Without T's consent, there would most likely have been no pardon.

his parents are friends of Thaksin? where did you get that info from? ASTV, Nation, a radio channel, or some insider information by some longfriendfellow with the best connections and insights.

and your argument is that Thaksin has the Cambodian police, the Cambodian judicial system, the Cambodian government and the Cambodian King in his pocket, controls them and they all will do what he says? and furthermore you claim that the pardon came only because the parents of the poor spy guy are best buddies of Thaksin and without such a relationship Thaksin would make sure that he gets the full punishment?

what law did justify the military coup?

what law declared that thaksin is "the enemy"? are the reds an illegal movement?

This line has me perplexed " The researchers surveyed 800 random informants at nine temples in Bangkok".

Now if I stood outside or in a temple and asked you during your visit to a temple to do a survey about whether you liked to visit temples, would I not already have my answer?

Perhaps I am missing something but sounds to me like somebody did the surveys themselves at home over the weekend.

they didn't find out that temple visitors like to visit temples, but did some data collection on the gender ratio of different visitor groups, groups as domestic visitors or foreign visitors and probably ask the respondents some other sociographic question, age, level of education, occupation and so on to have somekind of statistic.

something like this is done in student project to write some thesis, a term paper in a basic course of social research. with an empirical approach as the scientific method of choice.

nostalgia tourism is just a silly marketing term. old wine in new wineskins, to make the tour to the staged swimming market suddenly sounds so trendy and en vogue (for the pen pusher at the TAT)

And the pardoning can only be given after 1/3 of the sentence has been served, was it not?

"Screw the rules, we have a country to disrupt."

Watch his smiling pictures from a few days ago. He was already informed of it back then.

"1/3 of the sentence" - this information is coming from where?

"Screw the rules, we have a country to disrupt.""? who did this.?

wasn't a main issue for the thai side that cambodia the disrespect the thai justice system by refusing to extradite Thaksin to Thailand?

Wat Suthiwararam's Phra Maha Suthi Abhako, the lead researcher for a report entitled "How to Develop Temples as a Tourist Destination in Bangkok", said the study found among recent university graduates, more females than males liked to visit temples. On the other hand, among foreigners, more males were likely to visit temples than females.

The researchers surveyed 800 random informants at nine temples in Bangkok.

the male-female ratio of foreign temple visitors explained with the gender ratio in the total number of international tourist arrivals to thailand. there are coming more male visitors/tourists to thailand than females. so there isn't a gender issue of somekind of female lack of interest in temple visits by foreign women who are coming to thailand, their total number is just lower than male visitors. and the unaccompanied travellers, the single males, the ones who didn't came with their wives or as family but alone and are responsible for the higher male gender ratio of international tourist, they all do that what they told their colleagues at home, they come to thailand for the culture and visit temples.

Nice pic of Abhisit, he looks a bit like those missionaries on a bicycle. The ones that makes your realize that religion sucks.

Instead of kicking of just another campaign, the government should improve the standards all together. Cracking down on officials selling drivers licenses would help already. Even better is a ban on all those people who learn their family members drive. Prison sentences for uninsured drivers will help too.

The funny campaigns are no more than gimmicks that try to make an government with a blue eye and damaged nose a bit better.(while we all know that's impossible).

you got the wrong impression, complete different then those bible boys on bicycle. here are some more photos from the funny campaign:

more photos at the government website: http://media.thaigov.go.th/pageconfig/albu...76&pageno=1

Do you really think that the leading financial newspaper in the US, The Wall Street Journal, would let themselves influence by Thaksin's PR machine; do you really think so...or is it hear-say and nonsense rumors?

I consider the WSJ (owned by Dow Jones & Company who are owned by News Corporation*) as one of the most respected financial information channels in the world with highly qualified and well respected reporters and editors.

no, i don't think so. did you spot the question mark at the end of my sentence?

but this theory is out there and according to a couple TVF members and even articles published in The Nation written by its clever journalists that claim is now a common "knowledge" and "fact" for anti Thaksin partisans and common tactic to diss articles by the foreign press with the argument that is all a spin planted by Thaksins PR agent. did you came never across that theory before, here on TVF?

i read the words coup, smashing the paliamentary opposition and populist approach, so i thought it could be also good time to remind a WSJ opinion on Abhisit and quote what they wrote about him and his way to power.

i missed the link to the WSJ article that hammered mentioned, thats why i asked. i was little bit in a surprise because normally the TVF with a strong anti thaksin stance just report what their wives saw on ASTV, or stick to The Nation articles and max recommend some lame Shawn Crispin article at asia times, but diss or ignore other media outlets. and never back up their 'story tales' with a reference but using smilies as an argument.

but now it turns out that they read the WSJ too.

Because one crazy Thai Army general said again and again that there will be the retired Rangers with weapons joining the Red Shirts. That's why.

Is this the same Kattiya who was recently sentenced to one-year in jail and illegally crossed into Cambodia last month? This is one whacked out nut case.

That's the GUY! His own website is dedicated to the RED SHIRTS and violence.

I've seen his website, absolutely frightening. Wishful thinking on my part, but I had hoped he would have served out his entire jail sentence. With his recent illegal actions and threats made in the past and present, I do hope he will be court martialed, and if found guilty, do some serious time with rank stripped. Again, my wishful thinking won't do anything for the current situation.

Sae Dang is popular amongst a large group of Thais. seems to be some-kind of hero for the common man. this guy sees his mission in fighting against corruption in the higher police ranks. and for that he had to face several defamation cases and also got jail time. he is a big mouth like everybody else in the game.

a bangkok based newspaper, the one we can not quote and link here at TVF, run a home-story about him last year. Sae daeng was shown arm in arm with his daughter, who was wearing a yellow shirt because she is a PAD supporter and attended the protests.

he is an interesting character.

about his recent lawsuit the fabulous newspaper The Nation published two articles on November 20:

Court dismiss lawsuit against Khattiya

and

Kattiya gets one-year jail term for defaming Seripisut

anyway, keep in mind it was and is a defamation case. a reminder that such things can bring you in thailand quickly into trouble and something written in an entry at a webboard can be enough for file a suit at the court.

WSJ did a nice piuece on Hun Sen and human rights abuise and linked the game with Thailand to his populist approach to government (combinerd with a prior smashing of the parliamentary opposition with a coup)

link?

and isn't WSJ one of the examples that the foreign media is all heavy influenced by Thaksins PR machine and connections and just repeat their propaganda?

according to WSJ it was a 'silent coup' - "Mr. Abhisit's government has come to power by riding the dangerous wave of antidemocratic protest ... The previous government, loyal to former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was ousted by a combination of violent street protesters, with whom the military and police were largely complicit, and an activist judiciary operating under laws written by the military leaders"

The Nation

...

Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.

Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."

When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?

Difficult for Apisit to talk to Hun Sen as Hun Sen only speaks Khmer, no English or Thai.

I wonder if his interpreter always translates correctly?

Hun Sen don't have that prestige education of Abhisit, but basics in how to survive lifes basics, jungle war and took lessons in bamboo communistics in Vietnam.

I don't know how many languages Abhisits speaks, but he could also have his own multilingual interpreter by the side if he don't trust a Cambodian one, who maybe got not all correctly.

i wanted to point out something else.

what bemazed me. it is the line: "Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view."

Scenario: Abhisit and Hun Sen are in Tokyo, attending the Japan + Mekong (Sub) Region Summit. Hosted by the Japanese PM the guests are the PM of Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos and of course Thailand and Cambodia. Sitting on a round tables and posing for photographs holding hands each other.

Meeting abroad, on a third-party floor, one could think, that is a place where they could talk to each other or just ignoring each other the diplomatic way. Abhisit optioned for the latter, ignore. Don't talk to each the other and ignore the other at a Meeting or any social event violates some basic social and diplomatic rules of communication.

Anyway, that can be justified with a 'diplomatic excuse', a face-saver for all concerned. or at least a excuse for the observers at home. There are also some issues that they really should talk, instead of overreacting.

A goal orientated Abhist could have should had approach Hun Sen, but he didn't talk with Hun Sen, didn't even had a chance to talk with Hun Sen. Why: there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

Did he meant that literal or is that some kind of idiom i don't get because i am not a native Thai or English speaker?

there was a vase between them obstructing his view??? I found that odd and it sounds highly surrealistic to me.

Impossible-to-talk-a-vase-between-us it beats the dog-ate-my-homework excuse, in its literal meaning. But the problem solution would be very easy in that case, a vase can not really inhibits talks, only in a script for a teenager comedy about shy adolescents or otherwise challenged Forrest Gump alike characters. In reality it is a lame and flimsy excuse, unbelievable that somebody would came up seriously with such an explanation.

there was a vase between them obstructing his view beats me. my first thoughts have been: "<deleted>???", "", "5555" and "Awesome!"

the line kept spinning around my head and i came to the conclusion that i don't get it. this is one of the proverbial "You will never understand it, because ..." moments. magic moments. now i am impressed by it, there was a vase between them obstructing his view is poetic. Unbelievable. senseless beauty.

It inspired me to take this line and create on of this card/posters, that floating all over the internet and doesn't make much sense to me too, but there is some-kind of urge that make me look at them. i have to admit: my card narrows and confined the possible meaning of the phrase there was a vase between them obstructing his view

ps. it is probably more an issue how The Nation creates its content and text. and how Abhisit only got half quoted, filtrated and that explanation in its original context, spoken at the video conference, looks different than the condensed version in The Nation. lost in transliteration and lost in transmission. who knows?

there is always more than one interpretation possible, that makes text and language fascinating. much more tricky than a gimmicky turnery of a Gestalt-psychologist and its shadow.

looks all not unusual to me. Mc donalds seems to be very active to bring and develop the spirit of the football game, supports National Football Association in countries which are tiny on the international level, like Thailand or England. so these sponsorship deals must look indeed odd, if your are not coming from these Mc Donald football countries and their national association teams seldom hit the news abroad, fail to qualify and being not a regular at the Cups and Championships.

remember the one and only time England won the FIFA World Cup Final? That was 1966 against Germany, and only possible with the help of the "Soviet Russian Linesman" for the 'third goal'.

the English player Geoff Hurst become quite famous for scoring two irregular goals in the extra time of an World Cup final. in the history of the Cup no other footballer came close to such an 'achievement' since. and also England was never seen again in as winner of the World Cup. the dream of 1966 is dreamed, the their version of the story is still told and repeated, living memory on the island, full of inaccuracies of course.

despite the lack of success in winning the big games, the UK is still a football crazy nation. ten years ago Geoff Hurst 'scores' a knighthood in the Queen's Birthday Honours.

why i am telling all that? because today is Sir Geoff Hurst MBE is a McDonald's sport ambassador, the McDonald's Director of Football in the UK.

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/sports/ambassad...bassadors.shtml

edit:

i want to add that i am seeing nothing wrong with these sponsorship or that it is nothing bizarre and never heart before, it is not a only in Thailand case.

the Olympics are sponsored by McDonalds and so are other sport events and other team sport association , and not only football.

The Nation

...

Responding later by video conference to questions from reporters at Government House, Abhisit said: " It was not Thailand that had started it [the current dispute] - it was the Cambodians.

Therefore, it is they who have to review their position. Right now, we are adopting a wait-and-see approach."

When asked if he had spoken to Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen at an official dinner last night in Tokyo, Abhisit said his counterpart was seated quite a distance from him and that there was a vase between them obstructing his view.

did he said that? " there was a vase between them obstructing his view."? really?

That "Honorarium" was by itself illegal, and his own lawyers told him that.

He ignored them. The TV production company had reason to fear his displeasure

if not letting him continue to do the show, and that could have meant getting delisted

from broadcast schedules, so a CLEAR confilct of interest to keep him happy

and blathering politics while cooking

the court found other things evident and had other laws by the hand to declare Samak guilty. not even close to that what you are talking about.

i always thought that Samaks cooking show was popular, people enjoyed watching it. viewing figures good.

now you are telling here that he put pressure on the production company, so that he can appear on TV screen at all. and that while cooking chicken with cola he send some hidden spooky psychic political messages to the audience?

can you back up that somehow, substantiate your claim or is just fiction, animatique?

like samak or not, i like him not, but there is no reason to fabricate some nonsense stories and conspiration theories here. that way you will fail to see some other problems too.

and your ego might take further damages and your feelings get hurt every time someone takes his time and expose your hoaxes. but that is maybe also an intention, to get some attention. trolls usually fabricate their stories to provoke some responses.

Very sad to hear this but it is nothing new this could happen anywhere

And of course it does.

In 2005 when I was in the 90% Muslim Satun province at the border with Malaysia there was a handgun shootout at a government high school where I taught in which one student was killed. Satun is an oasis of tranquility admist the southern unrest so the violence wasn't separatist related, simply a feud.

Of course no one heard of it beyond a 50km radius of the school, hardly even in Had Yai. The killing certainly wasn't reported anywhere, so how much of this happens anywhere, anytime without our knowing of it?

More than I'd care to think of as it's reasonable to extrapolate that these social menaces aren't isolated or infrequent. However, LOS doesn't have a CNN does it?

so there wasn't any on-site live report on TV and CNN, like with the balloon boy recently, but can you read and speak Thai to say it wasn't reported anywhere.

and my guess is that also on CNN you get only selected news and not every crime reported that involve high school students.

but you could spoil the change to mention that there was a shootout in a 90% Muslim province to prove the point that this could happen anywhere.

sad thing is, it seems to be really happen everywhere. whoever is to blame, kids growing up in a certain sort of home environment ? even if some want to start finger-pointing at Thais or Muslims it happen in the western world as well. nowadays only the ones who are killing a couple of other students making the big headlines.

how schools can deal with it, prevent it?

an other extreme is reported in the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/educatio...pline.html?_r=1

6 years old first grader suspended from school, because he brought his boy scout camping tool to school, a spoon, fork and knife in one device, for using it at lunch. so he had the violated zero-tolerance policy on weapons.

Actions taken by the Royal Government of Cambodia involving Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin cannot be separated from relations between the two countries. As Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin is a fugitive in a criminal case and is still active politically in Thailand, such actions inevitably affect the sentiment of the people of Thailand.

emphasis in boldface added

surprisingly, they still referring to him as Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra.

and according to the Thai Government the problem is the following:

Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra wrongdoings:

• - fugitive in a criminal case
  
• - is still active politically
  

Royal Government of Cambodia wrongdoings:

• - deny any request for extradition of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin (calling such request only politically motivated)
  
• - failure to respect Thailand’s judicial system (calling the conviction only politically motivated)
  

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya

---

Ministry of Foreign Affairs Thailand

Press Release

- Termination of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Royal Thai Government and the Royal Government of Cambodia regarding the Area of their Overlapping Maritime Claims to the Continental Shelf

November 6, 2009, 4:41 pm

On 6 November 2009, Mr. Kasit Piromya, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand, who is currently attending the 1st Mekong-Japan Summit in Tokyo, gave a telephone interview on latest developments of Thai-Cambodian relations. Gist as follows:

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand has carefully considered the making of the Memorandum of Understanding between the Royal Thai Government and the Royal Government of Cambodia regarding the Area of their Overlapping Maritime Claims to the Continental Shelf, dated 18 June 2001 (MOU 2001), which was concluded by Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra's government. Having learned that Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin has been appointed as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Kingdom of Thailand will propose to the Cabinet that the said MOU be terminated for the following reasons:

1. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that the appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as an economic advisor to the Royal Government of Cambodia will directly affect negotiations between Thailand and Cambodia under the framework of this MOU due to the fact that Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin was directly involved in the negotiation process. Accordingly, the Royal Thai Government cannot continue negotiations with Cambodia under the said MOU.

2. Furthermore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that the overlapping claims of area between Thailand and Cambodia are matters of national interest, in particular, when considering that the overlapping area is over 26,000 square kilometres and has great potential in terms of natural resources. Negotiations on this matter thus affect immensely the economic and national security of Thailand. Therefore, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs deems it appropriate to proceed on this matter with public participation in line with democratic principles enshrined in the provisions of the present Constitution.

3. Negotiations under the framework of the MOU 2001 during the previous eight years have produced no progress. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is of the view that both countries should employ other avenues of negotiation in accordance with the principles of international law to achieve an equitable solution.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/35.php?id=23409

--------------------------

Ministry of Foreign Affairs Thailand

Press Release

- Royal Thai Government’s Position Regarding the Recent Appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra as Adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia

November 5, 2009, 5:30 pm

Following the recent appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra as economic adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia and personal adviser to Prime Minister Samdech Hun Sen and the decision to deny any request for extradition of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin in accordance with the Extradition Treaty between Thailand and Cambodia, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs wishes to state the following:

1. The Royal Thai Government has conveyed to the Royal Government of Cambodia on several occasions that bilateral relations between both countries should take precedence over any personal relationship.

2. Actions taken by the Royal Government of Cambodia involving Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin cannot be separated from relations between the two countries. As Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin is a fugitive in a criminal case and is still active politically in Thailand, such actions inevitably affect the sentiment of the people of Thailand.

3. The appointment of Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin as economic adviser to the Royal Government of Cambodia and personal adviser to Prime Minister Samdech Hun Sen is therefore seen as interference in Thailand’s domestic affairs and failure to respect Thailand’s judicial system. It puts personal interest and relations before the national interests of the two countries.

4. Therefore, the Royal Thai Government cannot stand idly by and has to take into consideration the sentiment of its people. Any action taken by the Royal Thai Government is to make known to the Royal Government of Cambodia the resentment of the Thai people.

5. The aforementioned action of the Royal Government of Cambodia has thus compelled the Royal Thai Government to review its relations with Cambodia and to take the following measures:

5.1 Recall the Thai Ambassador to Phnom Penh.

5.2 Review all existing bilateral agreements and cooperation projects made with Cambodia.

5.3 Review ongoing cooperation that the Royal Thai Government has extended to Cambodia. It is with regret that the Royal Thai Government must undertake such a review as it has always been the Royal Thai Government’s commitment to cooperate with Cambodia for the development of the Cambodian people’s livelihood and to narrow the gap between Cambodia and other ASEAN member countries.

http://www.mfa.go.th/web/35.php?id=23403

i am sure coalminer knows the Democrat Party and wasn't talking about them but the recently founded party NNP the political arm of the People Alliance of Democracy

maybe you don't know the People Alliance of Democracy and Sondhi L. otherwise you would have recognise that there is actually nothing so wrong that is it worth to start a heckler attack. for the future you don't need to try to be wise if to the newly founded PAD party is refered as Sondhis creation, his Democratic Party. it is perfectly clear what party was meant.

Heckler attack

There's nothing irrational about my posting style. Perhaps you should review your own however.

you violate forum rule #29) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

and added nothing more than only ".... " as comment.

i don't see this as a very rational posting style.

- fail

Get a job.

Life.

get a brain and stay sober.

nobody wins here if all overreact, having emotional outbursts, become angry and resort to nationalistic mania.

Cambodia - zero points

Thailand - one minus point

i agree with Asa as quoted below:

Over appointment of TS advisory post, it over reacts. Thailand need not create an enmity out of Cambodia or other neighbours. Abhisit has many times shown his desire to be tough, all at the wrong times. Where he should be more open and direct, he dodges and goes around. Where he should be more diplomatic, he is childishly rude and stiff. If he cannot take he leader roles right, how we can trust him to lead. What is Thailand gain in going blatantly against Cambodia? A popular PM?

looking at the recent developments makes me think that Thaksins conviction in that land deal was indeed political motivated.

Jayboy 0

Rinrada and Insight 1

- fail

- win

That would restrict Sondhi and hos recently created Democratic Party from being a candidate as well.

The Democratic Party was created only recently, and by Sondhi, are you sure of that ?

Sondhi elected leader of New Politics Party

BANGKOK: -- Media mogul Sondhi Limthongkul on Tuesday won a non-contested race to become the leader of the New Politics Party.

The installation of Sondhi's leadership took place at the first party convention following the completion of preliminary registration procedures.

Top contenders for party leadership, including interim leader Somsak Kosaisuk, withdrew their respective nominations to pave way for Sondhi's victory.

-- The Nation 2009-10-06

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Sondhi-Elect...Pa-t304285.html

....

i am sure coalminer knows the Democrat Party and wasn't talking about them but the recently founded party NNP the political arm of the People Alliance of Democracy

maybe you don't know the People Alliance of Democracy and Sondhi L. otherwise you would have recognise that there is actually nothing so wrong that is it worth to start a heckler attack. for the future you don't need to try to be wise if to the newly founded PAD party is refered as Sondhis creation, his Democratic Party. it is perfectly clear what party was meant.

Yes. The "Beer" episode. Classic. However, to appreciate it I'd recommend watching it in its entirety. Same applies to the other episodes. My personal favourite from that series is "Money".

i know Fawlty Towers and a couple of other British comedy shows and can laugh about them and think they are funny.

i didn't knew Blackadder. the selected clip was just the first hit, the one that came up on a quick internet search. it doesn't look so convincing that there is some more sophisticated humour behind, but a comedy with a very basic approach. but i believe that there are 'better' episodes, that proves the point that it is different from benny hill or mr. bean.

the Thai humour isn't only that slapstick shows with the ding dong and boing sounds, and that form is also not equally loved by all Thais. the thai cinema productions have a wide range of different fineness of humour.

Here is another situational example of classic sarcasm that I don't most Thais would understand. You are a restaurant and you order a pad Thai. They bring you a huge platter with a huge portion (way more than you can eat). So you say you could feed a village with this pad Thai! , I don't think the typical Thai would think you were being sarcastic and MOCKING the size of the portion. I think if they understand the language, they would take you LITERALLY. But you weren't being literal, you were being SARCASTIC.

In this example you seem to be using a western idiom to attempt sarcasm. Unless they understand the idiom, they have not much choice other than to take the comment literally.

i would understand the whole story if it would be about a very tiny and extreme small portion. if i would comment it: hey that will fill up my stomach for the rest of the week i guess the thai person who share table and meal with my would understand my intention and don't take it for literally.

but where is the reason to become sarcastic when i get a super big sized portion of Pad Thai?

methinks some people adore themselves to much and overestimate their wit and sense of humour. and more than sometimes i observe that Westerners taking quotes and words from Thais to literal and don't get the joke.

you are praising that show from the clip below or are you trying to be sarcastic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG9kqmhWMbk