Portlandstone

Khun Nelson was a terrorist convicted to LIFE imprisonment.

If he is a good guy, why would the government put him in jail.

You cannot change history. Once a criminal, always a criminal.

Obviously you do not have a clue about SA politics. If you did you would not write CRAP like this

I think he was playing on the Bangkok mentality, i.e. the government is always right we must follow the government, etc.

Is South Africa really a good country to model after? Turn the countries citizens' anger to other things than the real issues at hand?

In addition to my comment above, would the same posters be willing to call out CNN type channels if say, that channel aired a one hour special about Muslims being oppressed in the US only days after a 9-11 bombing, or how about a "Gary and Tony ('husbands') get a surrogate baby" special that shows all the unfair challenges and prejudices from society and in the one hour only fields one comment from the opposition that takes up all but less than two minutes (actually not even that)? Or do you only call out CNN types if they don't present your Thaksin the Devil perspective? (Maybe he is, but is it CNNs responsibility to portray him that way?)

It looks to me that some of you are thinking the major media channels have a responsibility to air "regionally and cautionally sensitive" material and be a vehicle for certain ideas. I hope they never do. I like seeing the wide-eyed Western guy who just arrived last week trying to make sense of all the craziness, but in reality most of these reporters have been here on and off for years.

edit: added additional comment

Not taking any side, neither red or yellow, it's clear that those who argue the Western media is "so bad" are really saying they want certain political representation to be aired. Essentially they are calling for more political bias, not less. What they seem to admit is that the Western media doesn't intend to operate in their special political interests. Such people seem to be rather obviously cheering on "Al Jazeera" and just about calling for a boycott of cnn and bbc. Shouldn't we really be welcoming all forms of media, and actually calling for more stories like this to be aired, rather than dismissing most sources and only touting one of them as "legitimate". I should add that such complaining really does look terrible in the eyes of those in the West, that you cry or turn your nose up at any news source unless it meets your finely tuned political ideology.

Roykaenz, from what I understand, neither did Al Jazeera go through that ten page list of perspectives that you want aired, which by the way contains a lot more allegations, yet-to-be-proven accusations, and some downright questionable. For example, "the numerous bomb attacks that occur in 'numerous locations' across the city almost nightly" ?????????

The only reference on the BBC website I could find is here, but I didn't see any link to a video. http://tinyurl.com/25x5su6

I don't get BBC in my apartment. Anyone know where on the net I can watch it all?

What is BCCT?

Jealous about?

When it says "reform," does that mean to make it better, or to offer validity of showing a bunch of soap operas and talk shows while bullets and bombs are being spent around Bangkok, and the reason why I have to go to the Washington Post or LA Times to get decent news about Thailand?

And who are you Mr. Sherman. ...

I for one would believe CNN and BBC and rather than Mr Sherman AND THE NATION, but I am a long visitor to Thailand to I do not need any of the propaganda to help me make my own decisions. I see it with my own eyes everyday.

Sherman is apparently the Yellow Shirts' (and government's) answer to Conor Purcell or Jeff Savage. There are a lot of Purcells and Savages on the Yellow government side, only they hide behind the internet.

This seems to touch on the reality that Thailand offers. If you have "made it", meaning if you have all the fundamentals in life and have plenty of money, then you are "set" for life. On the other hand if you haven't "made it", if you don't have all the basics in addition to money, then it's like you are nothing. A nobody. These two people felt that way. The article hinted that even though they had a decent relationship and enough money, they realized they were lacking in something else so big -- others to share that with.

Samuiman, post #3 (first one in thread). A great writeup and the kind of news about personal experiences that needs to disseminated all around, but you mentioned Vietnam and all I can say is, I lived there for over 4 years and that place is growing worse. People who have lived in TL, Cam, Indo and the like think they've discovered some nice little jewel in VN, but they haven't. That place is worse than Thailand, in my opinion. I moved from Vietnam to Thailand, where I presently am but haven't decided for how long. Otherwise, really good writeup!

Wow, the website admin clearly enforces some simple posting rules and a few guidelines and all of a sudden we get a whole bunch of excellent, mature replies as well as some great personal stories shared. There are so many good replies that I don't have the time to add comment right now, but I sure enjoyed reading them. Again, a lot of good points were made.

Good advice if I say so myself, hopefully someone up there will be of help. Will be surprised if beer is same as harder stuff. Thanks.

Will have to do a visa run tomorrow and on the way back in would like to bring several 6-packs of beer I bought in Vientiene. How many cans is the limit?

It's not these reporters who were "biased", it's the Thailand netizens ,

So says netizen Portlandstone.

And you're wrong. Unlike most people who post on forums and whine about real-life news network journalists, I was out there in the streets, many days. In addition, look at your details and mine: you have 4769 posts, what is that like 30 posts a day or something? Talk about addiction. I on the other hand have 160 in 9 months, which I must admit is still too much, but at least I get out there and live life. That's called NOT being a "netizen."

It's not these reporters who were "biased", it's the Thailand netizens , both foreign and local, that think so because their own visions of what they believe are real are actually narrow and slim. These reporters were there on the scene, rolled their cameras, and described what they saw and the atmosphere around them. Netizens meanwhile sat behind their computer screens and were so obviously enraged when a very particular "atonement" wasn't offered, namely one that didn't use deragatory terms to describe Red Shirt protesters and wasn't filled with monologue praising the Palace, the PM, and his deputies once every third sentence. If anybody should be explaining themselves for their biases, it's these narrow minded "Netizens" that live their lives through a very particular ideology that often lies really way off base from the truth.

Forgot to add -- if we're going to accuse the News Reporters of poor journalism, let's post their Youtube clips on this thread and discuss.

From what I understand, the term foreigner is used whenever a non-white, such as from India or Pakistan, does something, this protects their cultural identity and groups in the rest of us with them.  

Whenever a White does something, terms like "Australian" or "Brit" and so on are used, thus protecting the others and pointing the finger directly.  The only thing I can't figure out is if this is done directly, or is more of a subconscious indicator of the writers' and poster's sentiments.

I guess we will eventually find out, but reading the local media on here is like playing a game of trivia.

Two more frames of the guy on the left, at times it almost looks like some kind of cross markings on the light colored covering/attachment/thing on his back.

Nice leg work there. I wonder if a walk through a Thai Army facility you would or wouldn't find packs and other equipment that doesn't resemble the stuff these guys were wearing on their backs, particularly as shown in your second photo above. What about the helmets on their heads?

The shooters on the skytrain were filmed in this video:

....

Insight, congratulations, you've just earned the "Red Propagandist" label here on thaivisa, some mysterious label they give you whenever you present fair and balanced opinions or evidence that casts a sliver of doubt on the government or Yellows, or more appropriately doesn't vehemently tow their cause.

At the :43 to :45 second time frame the soldier(s) appear to be wearing helmets and full fatigues in line with Army soldiers. We know that by this time the Army had already kicked out and crushed the last resistence of the Red Shirt rogue fighters -- hours before in fact, so it would make sense that there were not rogue Red fighters still wandering around on the skytrain tracks. We can also observe their body language and what we see are two men "on duty station", not hyped-up combatants who, if they really were Red Shirts, wouldn't have been "chilling out" on the tracks the way these guys were, aiming down and occasionally picking people off. They would have been in full combat mode, scrambling about under high tension, with enemy soldiers nearby. These guys however don't appear particularly stressed out.

Are the Yellow and Gov't defenders going to disappear from this thread?

It should read: "Thai bar girl on drugs abandons her 8 month child while being incarcerated, a 60 year old Australian while on Holiday, whom she hardly knew, had the compassion to return the child to Thai Authorities via the local hospital"

That's exactly what I thought. It seems common that some on this website like to frame certain foreigners -- i.e. Westerners. If it were someone of another location, such as Pakistan or Middle East, the title would read "A foreigner.." and be more neutral.

Good job to the man for taking the initiative -- and the risk of being framed -- by carting the poor young kid to a place of safety.

Are there no red apologists can explain the above videos away? I'm disappointed. I realise that it might stress your creative flair, but you could at least have a go.

It's likely that those who have either knowledge or even a single opinion that doesn't fall strictly in line with the article and the Anti-protesters know that on these threads it's all about slander anyhow, so why bother? You can't take these threads seriously, and taking the time to write isn't worth it. I will say only though, that reading comments on these forums written by blatantly anti-protester guys, seem to reflect a distorted and warped view of reality -- and they frequently resort to slander of the user that doesn't agree with them or presents statements otherwise.

Thanks for expressing your thoughts KireB, which actually I want to make it clear and I should have said it in the very first post but people are still not sure about, I was not anywhere near Rangnam on the 15th, and the 14th was my last night to see what was going on up there, so I do not have any supporting evidence that the Army was the one who shot the medical worker on the 15th, as I wasn't there.  I can only insinuate that the situation which occured on the 14th continued in quite the same manner on the 15th, leading to the death of the worker of the same crews that were there the night before, but I wasn't there and I fully admit I have no evidence of the med worker's death on the 15th.  And KireB, it is a well known fact that by the evening of the 14th the Army had already occupied much of Ratchaprarop and it was therefore easy to tell that it was the army down at the corner in the dark, behind the tree and such.  I am not sure but from what I've read, they mostly came in on the new railway line (the airport train that is not in service), plus I remember seeing them hanging out up on the railway platforms on Ratchaprorop a few nights eariler, so they were clearly in that area the night before.  

Also in order to make it clear that I am not a part of a PR campaign, I did not witness who killed the dead man down near the front on the night of the 14th, and I didn't specifically state who did.  I only describe who was clearly firing guns, the sounds and unison of their guns, the extreme obviousness of who they were, and the almost completely unarmed protesters that really were just hanging back behind obstacles watching (admittedly while a half dozen or so were up front at any one time trying to rile up their enemy).  I do state however that I have no evidence -- and did not witness -- the killing or shooting of the man that was picked up by med personnel on the 14th.

I don't know why you say I was extrordinarily brave when there were a few hundred others, as well as a visible amount of foreigners, both of whom lingered up closer than I did.  But you are right, I was very scared the whole time.

Jdinasia, I am definately not a propagandist and I have no allegiance to any side.  I was just a single guy, passing through on his own that night, hung around for a while and left.

In the time that I posted the above reply, I see there are already a few more that clearly mistate the facts.  NickUpton and BigC, your facts are quite erroneous as I saw them.  On the night of the 14th, Rangnam Rd., there were practically hundreds of people lined all along the sidewalks of the road with a few running across sometimes.  Although a few guys up front had what might have been sling shots, all the rest had empty hands and clearly had no guns, neither visible and from what I was able to see and judge, none hidden.  It wasn't the protesters that were a danger to the ambulance personnel as they both were all standing around shoulder to shoulder, chitchatting.  It was the mysterious force down at the end of the road, the sounds of numerous rifles, all similar sounding -- clearly the army.  It was the protesters who helped and provided backing to the ambulance crews whenever they showed up and wanted to rush in to pick up their dead fellows, I don't know why you state that the med people and red shirt were disagreeing with one another -- clearly not.  When the crews came back later on, they again hung out with the protesters, like buddies.  I don't know why people are saying otherwise. 

To the guy who stated the Reds were the ones who killed Reds at the temple, I am under the impression that it was unidentified gunmen likely up on the rail tracks, and this would have been on the 19th, when the army clearly already occupied the area.  It will be interesting however if we can find out who it really was.

Rabo, I am similar to you -- I am no propagandist, and I have no allegiance to the Reds.  It seems that on this forum if you don't openly swear to the gov't/Yellows, you will however be labeled as such.  I only care about what I saw before me.

I was there on the 14th, but the medic was killed on the 15th.  However I saw what I saw and I cannot and will not change that.  The army was hidden behind a wall and at least one tree at the corner, largely in the dark with a street lamp not far away providing only minimal light.  The nearest protesters to them might have been about 30 to 50 yards away, ducking behind cars but sometimes running around out in the open.  I was up there for a bit, only a few minutes, but then hung back at about 100 yards, perhaps.  It was all somewhat chaotic and all like a bunch of nonsense.  It was chaotic and all of a sudden loud announcements were made, people were yelling, and up flew an ambulance truck (like the small toyota kind), quickly turned around and backed it's end down near the "frontline" and all of a sudden everyone started frantically running all over the place, hard to tell what they were doing but apparently lugging the body around, more yelling announcements on a loudspeaker (from the top of the truck?), by this time bullets started being fired, more commotion right there at the ambulance with everyone running around like I'm amazed they didn't knock each other over by running into one another, then everyone scattered back to their 'hiding spots' and the ambulance took off at racing speed, with the back end opened and a single, lone pair of feet clearly sticking off the back end (just a body, no attendant), with gun shots continuing, finally after the ambulance cleared out there was applauding and yelling and whistling.  A very hairy operation just for an ambulance crew to go an pick up a body near the 'front.'  The ambulance crew (a few of them actually) returned a bit later but this time parked well back, much further down the street.

Ozmick, you are right.  Friday the 14th was the last day (night) I witnessed any shooting and protests, Din Daeng and Rangnam being two of them.  After that I only got my news from the net.  News of the shooting of the Vajira med person should be on here somewhere.  It was on Saturday (15), I believe.