Snark

Has anyone noticed all the replies in support of modern Songkran cite ithe bucketing of water is traditional? Sprinkling water, paying respect to the elderly and a host of other things that are impeded by water bucketing are. Many of the traditional activities are hampered by water throwing and excessive drinking. The women on bicycles beuty pageant, the ceremonies at the Wat's and monuments as example.

The water hurling is not traditional. Since when are squirt guns, plastic buckets, and the like a tradition?

The doctors I have spoken to estimate the post Songkran infections may well number over 1 million people. Staph, strep, pseudomona and other virulent organisims, not only in the canal water but virtually all water thrown as there is no continuous water treatment systems such as chlorination, are common. Eye, ear, nose, throat and lung infections by the thousands will flood the hospitals for weeks after the bucketing ends.

And then the added bonus. Large drums filled with water are used everywhere. To date, I have seen drums that formerly contained benzaldehyde, methyl bromate, paraquat, sodium hydroxide, methylethyl ketones to name a few. Can anyone assure that these drums have been cleaned throughly?

And for all the wonderful folks who just enjoy the opportunity to get drunk, let us keep in mind the average drunk driver injures or kills others, innocent victims, as well as themselves, at an average ratio of 8 to 1.

Ajarn, the jeep has a top and doors. My complaints come from kneeling on the side of the road rendering aid to accident victims.

Songkran is now upon us. One hears little else in many quarters from the locals that does not involve plans for getting drunk for nearly an entire week. Kids have already been reported hurling buckets of water at passing motor vehicles. Something about the laws in all civilized countries in the world regarding the illegality of throwing anything at or from a moving vehicle escapes Thai's. Last year (or the year before) Thaksin managed to reduce the death toll during Songkran. He informed his lackeys that Songkran is only the 12th, 13th, 14th and 15th and deaths that happened outside of those dates was not Songkran related and will not be counted. Presently, by NGO reporting, the Songkran related festivities account for some 800-900+ deaths and 60-90,000 reported accidents with injury. I think, per capita, this makes Songkran the deadliest holiday in the world. Well worth giving a miss.

I personally resent the drunken water hurling orgy. During Songkran there are dozens of festivities well worth seeing or getting involved in. Essentially, the entirety of the traditional cultural Songkran. Virtually all of which is inaccessible unless you want to brave the deadly traffic and get thoroughly soaked by water of often questionable content.

Speaking of which, in order to facilitate hurling vast amounts of filthy water about, the Chiang Mai government has made certain all the canals around the city are full. They have installed some air injection areators to ostensibly clean the water and put up signs attesting to it's cleanliness. Now, one must keep in mind, when they drained those canals a couple of years ago to dredge them, they, the canals, kept filling up of their own accord. Since Chiang Mai has no sewage disposal system, it, in essence, floats on a sea of sewage. Thousands of septic tanks contributing for decades. It is interesting, and definitely displays the general intelligence of the city officials, that they think killing off a few anaerobes in that sewage soup gives it the official seal of approval and acceptable to be hurled with force into peoples faces. The added bonus, that the areators are inductive and therefore inject under some minor amount of pressure air into the water, they are also dissolving nitrogen into the water and making it poisonous for the fish.

As for those who espouse all the fun of Songkran and take umbrage at my posting, we need to keep in mind none of them have ever worked in an ambulance and had to treat patients, victims. There is work enough for the medic without little delights as child VS vehicle, and the ever so common Songkran special other than deaths, preventable injuries that often result in permanent disfigurement or disability which has become a virtual byword in Thailand as the result of idiotic childishness that the new, modern Songkran exemplifies.

Ever had a child die in your arms while people stand about you, laughing and throwing water at you both?

...

None can dispute the fact that English in it's myriad of forms is a particularly horrible polyglot.

It is also safe to say there are many forms of English which are perfectly understandable in one locale while being unintelligible in another.

Adding to this mess the comparative assets and attributes feminine of a particular personage (or the New York speech impediment) on a news show only serves to muddy the waters.

And then, according to the definitive textbook English, all who have posted on this topic so far have commited various errors, infractions and or discombobulations. Please note the topic of this thread is improper English.

To the point. The purpose of a language is to communicate without instigating a major world war from misunderstandings. With English there is, generally speaking, a reasonably right way to speak, write, and teach, with a shipload of minor variations. I think that all of you who have a basic grasp of this can agree that while there are several dozen more or less correct versions of English and a whole lot of questionable ones, there are two subdialect speakers that should never find themselves in the position of definitive authority, the teacher. (Nice run on, huh?)

These two are of course, cockney and slang laden, lazy Americaneeze. We encounter the latter rather frequently on these forums.

Sadly, however, many of the short time positions of employment taken here in Thailand are those darling wander-throughs, many of which spout one of those imcomprehensible noises. Imagine what next generation Thai-English will be!

For your (dis)edification, please consider the following. Adding grammatical notation as required, according to some highly esteemed scholars, there are 17 different ways to write or speak the following. So drop in a few comma's, a period or two, and have at it.

-What is this shitte stew?-

(IE: What is this? Shitte stew? Etc.)

"We are bound to a language which makes up in obscurity what it lacks in style" -Ros. and Guil. are Dead-

Microsoft spell checker is now the predominant definitive authority of the English language. In turn it insists on putting and apostrophe in the word aint among other foibles.

Accents are irrelevant if words are enunciated with accuracy and reasonable clarity. This excludes roughly 2/3rds of the Brits, 3/4 of the Americans, and 9/10ths of the Aussies. (Nobody knows what dialect is spoken in the Northern Territory. It is subject to debate if it even is a language.).

Indignity is cheap.

How many guys check the bar girls ID for age?

50-100,000 prostitutes from Burma way in Thailand, a good chunk of them under legal age. How many have openly protested the Burmese Junta and the Thai Government;s complacence or complicity in making this prostitute 'pool' so readily available?

How many have tried the various avenues available to try and force the Thai police to actually act like police and enforce the laws without favortism?

How many know or have heard of the various whore palaces that frequently have underage employees and give the old mai pen rai?

How many of you have researched what you can actively do to reduce the incidence of these horrific crimes like contacting UNICEF or similar and the various child protection agencies?

The rules are...?

My wife attempted for more than a half hour yesterday to explain a concept, situation, ... I honestly don't know or understand. The thing roughly comes across as Thai translates for Thai.

She encountered this several times while working in the local Government offices where both superiors and subordinates would put their own slant on a directive handed down.

To me this sounded preposterous. A government could not possibly function like that, yet this is apparently commonplace and the norm. She cited a couple of incidents where she observed this happen. A directive came down from Bangkok, the office supervisor handed it to a subordinate and the subordinate misinterpreted it according to what worked best in that particular office at that given time.

If this is in fact the case, as it certainly appears to be, it would well explain the loose translation and implimentation of and/or in the farang income. In America and England such a thing would have heads rolling. However, as long time farangs have likely encountered, this does seem to fit quite well with how things operate here in Thailand.

If others have heard of or encountered similar 'free translation' incidents and have further insight on this matter I think it could help us all in understanding what we are dealing with.

The seeker and the (supposed) blind man:

"You've been here before?!!"

"How many times?"

I haved moved this topic to back on track, eliminating non relevant postings. I sincerely apologize for the convenience.

Wishing to thank camerata for his explanation and to offer a little more info.

Some time ago the raging battle was internet privacy. There was a huge mountain of stupidity generated regarding this. We had public encryption, and we had the US Government wanting it standardized with them having a 'back door key'.

This was a very ugly mess by all accounts. The US Gov. brought criminal charges on individuals which in turn infringed on intellectual property rights.

And then the US Gov went on another tangent. An elite group wanted to be the absolute supreme authority over net content and censorship. Admins and hackers from all over the world were up in arms about the freedom of speech. The basic arguement is it exists or it doesn't. There cannot be halfway measures, especially when it comes to such an international forum as the internet. It boiled down to personal responsibility vs some authority taking charge over all.

Which brings us to the present day. We have, on the whole, freedom of speech on the internet. We are also up to our eyeballs in porn, and have an ever increasing number of groups, organizations and governments trying to censor the net once more. Thailand is no exception.

The problem lies in the fact that with blocking and other forms of censorship, many of the real problems are also the real pros. They can and most likely will manage to get through while the legit user will get blocked for arbitrary and very possibly unintentional supposed violations.

The whole bottom line is trying to maintain a middle way. Not let powers from on high rule and regulate your net traffic by imposing ones own rules and guildelines. Trying to keep a reasonable venue and self censoring before someone does it for you.

Ultimately, the very best form of censorship is no censorship. It is replaced by personal responsibility born of respect for your fellow beings on the planet. With the internet, that boils down to you do it, or ultimately someone will do it for you.

An awful lot of people have worked very hard for the freedom of speech we have on the internet. It now rests on your shoulders, the internet users, to assure this continues.

About 2 years back I was approached by a person who had con man stamped all over him. He passed me several lines of BS how he could help me out with some business deal. Helping me get in on the ground floor of a new guest house he was planning I believe. This man, I would add, is Thai but spoke excellent English. I politely avoided his offers and remained on speaking terms with him.

About a year later I discovered this man was indeed into a rich assortment of scams. He also owns the majority of land and buildings in one of the most high traffic areas of Chiang Mai. The new guest house scam was built. A 120 room affair with swimming pool, spa and assorted.

...

The arguements

The first

Zen is a stone thrown in a pond that causes no ripples

The second

Zen is not an action. Zen is to throw no stone. The pond remains quiet.

The third.

Zen is the action of perfect action. The zen is in the throwing of the stone.

The fourth.

Zen is the pond.

The fifth

Zen is the stone

The sixth

Zen is observing all these idiots throwing rocks, yet doesn't get splashed for some reason.

and so on. Be Zen. Ignore this post.

Has anyone heard of certified structural welders, construction Q&A, destructive analysis methodology, or for that matter, anything even remotely related to assuring construction quality in Thailand?

(This is a serious question. Having seen people blasting away with an AC spark box using non-structurally certified welding rod on support columns and the like, I am really curious.)

My wife read from a Thai newspaper yesterday two different accounts of this outbreak. One was the flu originated from testing while the other claimed the flu came about when the birds were moved and subjected to the cold and damp.

I absolutely refuse to say anything about an impending visit by the PM to promise millions of baht in rain and cold weather relief.

The male being favored is typical in almost all agrarian cultures and societies. The male children work and later inherit the farm etc.

A few of the byproducts of the agrarian origin mentality is the sloth on the part of the male and unwanted females ending up as indentured servants, prostitutes and the like. In many of these societies a woman bearing only female children is grounds for divorce, taking another wife or wives and even having the wife ostracised from her community and family.

The roles of the children is established as the /social security/ of the family. Which offspring, in what capacity, will take care of the elderly family members.

Looks to me like the dead Bhagwan Sri Rajneesh. A man I not only knew personally and talked with regularly, but whom I also lived with in Oregon in the 80's (where he went to escape criminal prosecution in India). The Bhagwan has been dead for at least 10 years...

I can't believe they've brought the memory of this Charlatan/ConMan, and are now commercialy marketing him as a Buddha

Now that's just sick.

I'm wondering what happened to all his Rolls Royce's and the rest of his estate?

I recall one person who attempted to follow this mans methods of enlightenment. He was asked after if he tasted the nectar and saw the divine light to which he replied, "I tasted snot and nearly choked to death."

Let me see if I got this wright. There are Brits by descent, decent Brits, descended Brits (Yanks), and of course, dissent?

my father worked very hard and was a very well respected man with very good intentions. she plotted this out and i need help convicting her. she is collecting 5 million dollars in assetts and was debt free.

This is a matter for the authorities and if you wish, a follow up investigation, either called by your consulate, or financed privately.

If you wish to solicit assistance on this forum, by all means make your request. However, using Thai Visa forum to make accusations is going to serve little purpose and may possibly serve to ultimately only make the investigation more difficult.

I can only speak about the medical aspect. Pain and difficulty breathing that does not lessen or abate should certainly have a follow up doctors visit. There are certain medical conditions, latent, that have these symptoms and are life threatening.

As mentioned the dragon or naga or whatever you wish to refer to it as is found in dozens of cultures, representing wisdom or the guardian of wisdom.

As for the water vessel, various meanings were explained in previous posting. For the entirety of the symbologies of the other 'ornamentations' Quan Yin bears, a short stroll through the Mahabharata might be in order. Be prepared to set aside a decade or so. I have once been told by a scholar that there are something over 4,000 of these symbolic ornamentations, each representing an aspect of the divine principles.

I'm sysadmin at a university in the US. Have to get my work done before the major DB dump of the day - afternoon, there which is 04:30 here.

The accoustics are indeed a significant aspect. If anyone has sat in the (I think) 20 somthingth row in the Hollywood bowl they known the true meaning of surround sound.

Alternately I helped put on a concert in an accoutically speaking, perfectly wrong auditorium. During one part of the concert the star of the concert came outside with us roadies, stared at the building with her hands on her hips and remarked, "It sounds better out here"

Rather than discuss the what, I offer this forum where one can post the practical uses and experiences.

On that note, a little unmitigated gibberish from my own delusionary world.

(For the various schools, students, please refer to my footnote)

The motivating force, drive, desire behind Siddartha Gautama, Sakyamuni to seek enlightenment was his compassion for his fellow man. In the story of when he was still a Prince he had three encounters, events in his life that brought forth his compassion.

His compassion was selfless, as was his desire to seek enlightment. It was the pain and suffering of his fellow man that drove him, through the ascetic, through the suppression of his desires and cravings, through his self seeking, and ultimately his confrontation with Mara (Maya) itself.

When studying the Dharma (Dhamma) it is sometimes easier to simplify your thinking and examine what Buddha confronted, went through, in his final incarnation.

Upon leaving his fathers city he became an ascetic. One may find various definitions of an ascetic but in essence it is commonly referred to as the cleansing fire. As an ascetic all sensations, illusions/delusions of the senses are reviled. One seeks pain and suffering to replace the desires and seductions the senses give us.

After being an ascetic, feeling he had learned what he could, that even the life of an ascetic was an indulgence of the senses, Gautama sought solitude, meditating upon his being in an effort to find his true inner nature. He forwent ALL contact with the rest of the world in all possible aspects. One day he looked down at his own body and realized that he was about to die of starvation. From this aspect, the second ultimate trial, came the teachings where he advocates 'all things in moderation'. It is when we go beyond need to want that we feed the desires and cravings.

In the third aspect, path of his finding enlightment he 'lightened up' if you will please excuse the modern vernacular. He had overcome his cravings and desires, yet he realized his self, incarnated within a body, must have sustenance. He wandered, some say aimlessly, a soul adrift, untethered. He eventually came to sit under a tree in a garden. What he was, what his state of mind was, many others have written about. Suffice to say, his mind opened as he meditated. As it opened, his super consciousness awakening, all the seductions of the world came, embodied as Mara/Maya, sometimes called the enchantress or seductress, fought to get his attention, turn his mind from the path.

This third aspect, his absolute denial of Mara is the most beloved and venerated aspect of Gautama, or, as he became known after the night of the final trial, The Boddhisatva*. Most of the images of the Buddha, especially those found in Thailand, depict Buddha in the posture/position of 'renouncing' Mara.

And so, a simple ladder anyone can relate to: deny, reflect, and better understand/awaken. Taken one step at a time, one has a craving or desire. One focuses ones entire being on the denial, indeed, the pain of a withdrawal caused by past satiating the craving. Then comes a time of introspection where one attempts to understand what brought him/her to acquire that craving in the first place. Lastly, reflection where one lets ones wisdom expand. You have recognized a weakness within yourself, understood it and now you let it go. It no longer has power over you. Now you may know your unborn Buddha within just a little bit better.

* I use the word Boddhisatva in the extreme archaic form: Knowing the first cause. In the case of the Buddha, one who knows himself, utterly and completely, inclusive of each karmic cycle and event, back to the first incarnation.

Footnote.

I realize this is somewhat inaccurate and oversimplified. It was in fact, the jist, a teaching as it was given to me many years ago by a monk who told me.

"You won't learn much about electricity by sticking your finger in a light socket. You will not actually see electricity in action by reading volumes on it. The same applies to Buddhism and the Dharma. Start with the most rudimentary basic practices and expand them as your mind better understands."