Johpa

Another idea might be to turn the whole grounds into a "living history museum" of either Thai or Lanna history/culture. Maybe along the lines of Colonial Williamsburg in America. It would provide a lot of jobs and I think it might draw both domestic and foreign tourists.

My friends manage a much smaller but similar type of "musuem" for highland people's cultures and they only get grief from the authorities and from the media.

It IS having a big affect on the Issan farmers right now. The families are simply not big enough to farm the traditional way. This will finally force them to use more modern methods and the days of doing everything by hand are going to end. This year is the first time I saw some rice planted with a grain drill and NOT planted and then replanted by hand.

The "traditional" method was to make a communal effort when it came to the planting (actually replanting), harvesting, and threshing. The labor intensive work was shared and it was hard but it was an enjoyable community bonding experiences the few times I destroyed my back planting rice with the in-laws. The non-shared work was more the plowing, the weeding, and the maintenance of the padi walls and the irrigation channels.

Modern "methods", AKA mechanized methods that are only profitable when large flat areas are under a single owner, force smaller farmers off the land, allow for the conglomerates like ADM to collect ALL the profits, and the displaced become urban poor living in a lumpenproletariat hel_l.

roller coaster and waterpark right next to the (wild) animals? Doesn't sound nice to me ....

Nienke

A great idea, especially one of those newer roller coasters...just imagine... upside down over the lions den....the big felines jumping up at you.....and then combine it with a casino...better than Vegas!

Just a question...

You know on the X-Files everybody was a Special Agent, not an Agent a Special Agent. How come every moderator in this place is a Super-Moderator, not a Moderator, but a Super-Moderator ?

Some could tell you the truth, the truth is out there, but due to forum rules we are all on double secret probation and not allowed to divulge such truths about the moderators without risking exile.

Kuala Lumpur[/b] Malaysia for your next visa run and be mesmerised. Check out all the different reviews on different stalls around KL. Thats where I am at right now for the next 10 days btw

Why not just go down to Penang then for a combination visa run and Indian food binge, the old school visa run before Mae Sai became an option.

The REAL situation is this;

A bunch of Thai kids got dressed up in Nazi uniforms & a bunch of other people CHOSE to be offended.

From this, it can be seen that the real problem has nothing to do with Nazis, Thais, Jews etc etc blah blah. Group "A" is saying that group "B" is responsible for the feelings that group "A" has.

Can somebody please tell me how one person can control the feelings of another? Are we NOT in control of our own thoughts?

It would be a far more sensible & peaceful approach to life if we all stopped worrying about what others are doing & concentrate on living our own lives.

By admitting that "somebody made me feel bad" is giving all of your power to others. Therefore, people who claim to have been upset by another, willingly allow others to control them & then complain about it.

How bloody stupid is that?!

Nobody choses to be offended. I do not look upon some incident and then stop and ponder whether I shall be offended or not just as I don't stop to ponder whether some particular smell is odious or not. And this incident did not make me or others "feel bad" just as bad odors do not make me feel bad. Bloody stupidity is perhaps in the eye of the beholder: lack of logical reasoning is more objective.

I am beginning to understand why Ahmadinejad (which, btw, I consider a madman) finds necessary to negate Holocaust.There are too many people who wave it in your face at every obcasion. And as time goes by,it is inflated over and over each year.

When I was at school 30 years ago, the Holocaust figures were 5.5 million Jews and 0.5 million gipses.Homosexuals, common criminals, handipcapped were estimated a handful of ten thousands, so the final compute was just rounded at 6 millions.

But since then the mediatic Jew circus has inflated the figures and step by step year after year they have peaked at 11 million. Then our great Thaivisa moderator thought to give his personal contribution and added another million, finally reaching the dozen

Iranian President is wrong in negating Holocaust, but his feelings are quite understandable.

The only reason that you find his feelings understandable is that you are in sympathy with those feelings of "throwing the Jews down the well."

I believe that the reference to a "Jew circus" gives credence to my above statement. I have no clue as to the meaning of your neologism "mediatic", perhaps a reference to some conspiratorial belief that the imagined seven Jews control world media also. By the way, I have never seen any sources increasing the number of Jewish victims of the Holocaust above 6 million.

If the moderators were to make a positive contribution to TV it would be to remove your account.

But the Romans killed just as many Jews as the Germans did in WW2. And has anyone forgotten about the Egyptians before the Romans? People still dress up as Romans or Egyptians. Just like that, some people dress up as Nazis. And like Prince Harry, who does have an education I assume, he also dressed up as a Nazi. Big deal. They're not killing anyone, they're not doing anybody any harm.

Romans and Egyptians are cultures that extended over centuries, sometimes being admirable and sometimes acting less than admirable. The Nazis were a short lived political party. Nobody is arguing that because of the Nazis one should not wear leiderhosen, although there are probably other arguments for not wearing that particular clothing item. And if Prince Harry wants, as an individual, to dress up as a Nazi, well that is his choice.

It is too bad that they do not teach much history in the Thai schools and it is too bad that they no longer teach formal logic in western schools.

Expecting one society to observe the taboos of another totally alien to its culture always struck me as somewhat hollow and in reality has probably more to do with paying obeisance to that Western totem of political correctness rather than displaying a genuine respect. But the question still remains, why on earth should these children be expected to honour the memory of the victims of a European holocaust conducted a generation ago by a perverted society with which they have had no connection whatsoever?

What is it about the sanctimony of the West, so complacent in their arrogance, that their wretched history should contain lessons for those of the East who presumably must be grateful forever more for the the instruction. The hypocrisy is really quite overwhelming and in this case particularly ironic when one considers the plight of the Palestinians subjugated by their Jewish oppressors funded by dear old Uncle Sam who from time to time is not adverse to the odd slaughter whenever it suits.

The East owes nothing to the West and frankly any opportunity for the modern youth of Asia to show their contempt for the arrant hypocrisy of so called western values should be seized without hesitation.

Disregarding some specious analogies presented by the OP, the Thai people did indeed suffer during WWII from militaristic and fascist racist policies of the Japanese, allies to the Axis cause, and even the flawed teaching of history in Thailand does not totally avoid the story. Not that I disagree that people should highlight, and even protest when necessary, certain hypocrisies of "western values", whatever exactly those might be, but it is not healthy to take it to the level of self-loathing. For any school to dress up their students in even pseudo Nazi uniforms as part of some school activity is simply wrong no matter how you cut the cake: it is not a matter of honoring the memory of victims, which was not an issue here, it is a matter of not honoring the perpetrators of evil, and such people are not confined to the Occident.

One should note that the common Thai greeting "sawatdii" is of the same root words as the western term "swastika".

This is the type of scientific analysis much favored by global warming believers. Astrology, dousing, palm reading are disprovable using scientific method, the large rocks are provable. Global warming is provable, but the cause is not. We have relatively recently (18,000 years ago) come out of a regular 100,000 year ice age period and are in a planetary warming period. The last inter-glacial period (about 125,000 years) peaked at 2 degrees warmer than at present. Therefore there is evidence to show warming is part of the natural cycle. And there are various issues with the theory, for example, what about the cooling effect of particulates? So although there is evidence, there's also a lot of bad science around.

Balderdash! There is plenty of evidence to show increased levels of carbon dioxide as a result of human activities is real and affecting the planet, such as the increased pH level of the oceans. To equate previous global changes in climate that were very gradual and allowed for some life adaptation with the current instant changes, geologically speaking, is ridiculous. The only scientists arguing against global warming are those funded by the large corporations who do not want to lose profits if people change their behavior patterns, specifically the big Oil companies, the same people who brought you the inconvenient non-truths of the Iraq war. The only media channel propagating the concept that the current global warming is simply a natural occurring climate change, the propagandist term that the oil companies prefer for global warming, is the Murdoch controlled global media channels, Murdoch the public apologist for his fellow ruling class members who want to keep the rabble stupid. One of their favorite faux logic tactics is the ad hominen attack, and we see the overspill in this thread as fellow apologists criticize even the Norwegians, a group of people I have found rather likable. You don't have to like Al Gore to see that his cause his just.

As I see it, a nice timepiece is essential for a Gentleman.

I am little surprised that arguably the most quintessential neo-sahib statement on ThaiVisa to date has appeared in this thread, a thread I thought had long passed its time.

Chaiyo

There is a choice between places where elephants are abused (unfortunately in the majority) and those where elephants' are well kept and treated, so why not supporting the latter and avoiding the first?

Nienke

I would disagree that the majority of the elephant camps "abuse" the elephants. As I noted in my first post, one can support the type of elephant camp that one feels most comfortable with. But the sad fact is that there is no alternative for the majority of the elephants other than to be in one camp or another. There is simply not enough room in the few "sanctuaries" to hold all the elephants.

Don't support any places where the elephants "do tricks", give rides etc.

And as there is no longer enough old school forest work to support the numbers of elephants in Thailand, perhaps you would prefer a massive culling of the population because without income generated from tourism there would be no food or anywhere for these elephants to go. There are already plenty of "unemployed" elephants in the Kingdom whose lives are less than ideal.

Look, there are indeed some bad elephant camps out there, but there are also some very good ones, including the big one up at Mae Sa where they do "tricks" and give rides. It might not be your cup of tea, but others might and do enjoy the experience. There are a few elephant sanctuaries out there where the pachyderms no longer have to give rides to tourists. But these sanctuaries also have limitations as to how many elephants they can adopt. In a perfect world there would be enough sanctuary space for all the Thai elephants, but that is not the case so giving rides and doing "tricks" to generate income to provide food and shelter is here to stay for awhile.

The key is when using the phrase งูๆปลาๆ is to be sure you can pronounce the งู correctly, that is what subconsciously impresses the native Thai speaker.

UG, I get your point but alot of wine drinkers are not wine snobs.

That is correct. All those shoppers buying the award winning two-buck Chuck, and there are a lot of them in the US, have long realized that the wine industry is one giant scam and that there are excellent wines, at least in the US, for under $10 and as low as the two-buck Chuck. Now I personally don't rate two-buck Chuck as excellent, but that is my subjective rating. But there still remain plenty of wine snobs around who imagine that price has something to do with quality.

My wife has a ten rai plot of land that has no electricity. It is scenic, has a pond and fruit trees. I am quite interested in building a getaway cottage on that land. I checked out solar energy companies including Solar Energy Asia and the Thai company that supplies the government with their systems. I was interesting that both companies wanted exactly 180,000 baht for 400 watt systems. I calculated the payback time and it appears it is about 25 years. Of course the systems will not last 25 years, so no payback. Solar energy is a great idea, unfortunately it is still simply too expensive to install.

If the location of the land is not able provide a connection with an electric grid, then the payback time for any alternative method for obtaining power is immediate and 100%.

I think the original poster is in error regarding having children and I would like to make a modest proposal, but drats, Swift beat me to it nearly 300 years ago.

Thai TV isnt the cause of all violence amongst Thai teenagers.However, alcohol and cigarettes cannot be shown yet is common to see a man assault his wife or girlfriend....not the best message to be sending the countries young men

It is aslo common to see Thai women asualting each other on TV drama/soap opera programs. OK to show this, but no kissing allowed. Violence lessons OK. Sex? We'd rather not know about it.

I would just be happy to see even a few of the women in the Thai TV "dramas" portrayed as adult human beings in control of their emotions instead of as children incapable of controlling their tantrums.

Watches for many on these boards are just silly little adornments that have a minimal function in telling time but far more closely function as a symbol of marking oneself as a member of the Leisure class, sort of like those silly neckties that certain people wear, and the primary purpose is to demonstrate that the wearer does not engage in physical labor. The continued allure of fancy watches in a time when cheap quartz watches are more accurate, also demonstrates that Thorstein Veblen remains the greatest American economist of all time.

Nothing like a watch thread to bring out the Tesco Lotus clothing crowd.

Having never even thought of shopping for clothing in a Lotus, Tesco, Walmart, or Costco, perhaps you could elaborate on this concept so we can all enjoy the humor.

The humor is that the pretend minimalists (not saying you are one, you may be the real deal) tend to be critical of those living just beyond or well beyond their own means but don't look to see that they themselves are living beyond the means of many as well. An adornment or fancy adjective for one is not necessarily so for the other since all things are relative. There are probably more people in the world who believe that clothing from Tesco Lotus (or whatever hypermart happens to be serving the larger 'working'/'struggling' population segments in a lot of the world) is an 'adornment' and/or 'fancy' than people who believe the same about any particular brand or item. And among them, there is probably a small group with personal issues, ready to say "you're not just wearing that one size fits all Tesco t-shirt to cover your body, but clearly just marking yourself as a member of the non-homemade clothing class, sort of like those silly tube socks that certain people wear, and the primary purpose is to demonstrate that the wearer owns proper shoes. The continued allure of 'fancy' clothing in a time when cheaper products that can be homespun are better fitting, don't make use of child labor, etc. also demonstrates that Thorstein Heng remains the greatest American economist of all time.

One sees it all the time from these types, especially on web forums. There are all kinds of "reasons" not to own instead of rent a home, to own a larger home instead of a smaller one, to wear a 'nice' watch, to drive a 'nice' car, etc. UNTIL said person is doing exactly that... and then they get all quiet. It's almost like watching an infant trying to learn to self soothe. It's kind of amusing and slightly pitiful (but cute) at the same time.

<deleted> are you talking about? You are not making any sense to me with your talk of tube socks and "proper'' shoes. All I see is that my reference to Veblen went way over your head. I clearly made the mistake of over-estimating the average readership here. But hey, if it makes you feel bigger to criticize or belittle me for any reason, even reasons like those above that I can't quite parse, then feel free to imagine me in any manner that allows you to compensate for your own self-imagined inadequacies.

1 = เอก (èk) One

2 = โท , ทวิ (toh, tá-wí) Two

3 = ตรี , ไตร (dtree, dtrai) Three

4 = จัตตุ , จตุ , จัตุ (jàt-dtù, jàt-dtù?, jàt-dtù?) ... Quatro (quarter)

5 = เบญจ (ben-jà) Penta

Uno, dos, one, two, tres, quatro......wooly bully...... Sam the Sham & The Pharaohs

And that is one reason it is called the Indo-European language family.

Watches for many on these boards are just silly little adornments that have a minimal function in telling time but far more closely function as a symbol of marking oneself as a member of the Leisure class, sort of like those silly neckties that certain people wear, and the primary purpose is to demonstrate that the wearer does not engage in physical labor. The continued allure of fancy watches in a time when cheap quartz watches are more accurate, also demonstrates that Thorstein Veblen remains the greatest American economist of all time.

Nothing like a watch thread to bring out the Tesco Lotus clothing crowd.

Having never even thought of shopping for clothing in a Lotus, Tesco, Walmart, or Costco, perhaps you could elaborate on this concept so we can all enjoy the humor.

Watches for many on these boards are just silly little adornments that have a minimal function in telling time but far more closely function as a symbol of marking oneself as a member of the Leisure class, sort of like those silly neckties that certain people wear, and the primary purpose is to demonstrate that the wearer does not engage in physical labor. The continued allure of fancy watches in a time when cheap quartz watches are more accurate, also demonstrates that Thorstein Veblen remains the greatest American economist of all time.

Yes, yes, the Hang Dong area with its superstores and plenty of fellow Farangs for companionship. A distant second would be east or northeast of the city towards Sankameng or San Sai. Avoid Mae Rim with its open-air market and fly covered meats, not to mention the aroma of the Elephant camp. Stay south, far south, within an easy drive to the Airport Mall.

When I first started coming to Thailand just 9 years ago it felt exotic; it was raw, it was exhilarating. Thai people related to me with enthusiasm and I felt genuinely welcome in their country.

Sorry, but when i came first to Thailand 20 years ago it wasn't "exotic" anymore. Maybe 50 years ago it still was, but i wasn't even born then.

The problem i believe is more with you and your perception than with mass tourism, which was well established 9 years ago, as it was 20 years ago.

I reckon that what determines a locale to be "exotic" is a rather subjective concept . I would prefer to use the term traditional.

Twenty years ago mass tourism was well established, but only in the tourist centers (tourist ghettos) of Bangkok, Phuket & Samui, Chiang Mai, and Pattatya, ands for the Malays down in Hat Yai. In my mind it was still possible then to find traditional locations in Thailand, but you had to go outside the bubble as even in the rural provincial centers modern mass culture was becoming dominant. Today that mass "pop" culture permeates even many of the more remote villages.

But I agree with ColPyat that if one is complaining about such things after arriving a mere nine years ago the problem is more internal to the original poster than to changes within Thailand as the rapid acceleration in change had already begun to lose steam within that most recent period of time.