Johpa

Here's a couple to start with

1) People in the UK have in general far too much money , give their kids far too many things , both of which make them more arrogant.

I must hang out with the wrong crowd when visiting the UK. All my mates are struggling with the high prices of just about everything. Entertainment is pretty well limited to smoking fags and watching the telly in the evening apart from the rare visit to the increasingly rare traditional pub where available funds limit them to only a pint or two. And they all complain that London has become a non-English and unsafe city. I still love the place, but then I am now only an occasional tourist who once lived in London decades ago.

think it was probably the same person that cut his throat that emptied the wallet

I suspect you forgot, or never were infomed, about the looting of bodies after the Lauda plane crash.

OK, so please enlighten me as to what Kawthoolei is...also, according to the KNLA's website:

The Karen National Liberation Army (KNLA) is the military branch of the Karen National Union (KNU). Since shortly after Myanmar's independence in 1949, the KNLA emerged to fight for the independence of the Karen state in eastern Myanmar.

So I guess you have a better idea than them as to what it is that they want? Also, according to Wikipedia (I know, not a reliable source of info, but I reckon neither is Ms. Kate):

Early in the fighting, Karen forces overran much of Northern Burma including towns such as Mandalay and established strong positions outside Rangoon at Insein. But lacking a port from which to receive military supplies, the Karen forces gradually withdrew to the southeast of Burma.

Actually, I have some connections that are rather close to the KNU leadership, and despite what you might be reading, the realistic political objectives of the KNU are not full independence, although here and there one will see such bold propaganda statements. Kawthoolei is a recent name of the region that is primarily Karen and the Kawthoolei State should be seen in the same light as the Shan State, the Chin State, etc. It is an easy way to divide areas of a country that are composed of large minority groups with the dominant group compromising about 60% of the total population.

As for your other reading, I have never heard of Karen forces overrunning northern Burma, where per chance there are no Karen, nor do I see any references to Karen military activities in either of the two Wikipedia aticles linked to in your post. But you are almost correct that back around 1948, an early iteration of Karen forces did briefly take control of the prison town of Insein after initial pledges of autonomy to the Karen and other minority groups turned out to be lies. I believe that is the last time Karen forces occupuied a town.

What is it with you people? How about calling a spade a spade and terrorists terrorists, rather than insurgents, militants, criminals or very naughty boys? Cmon, get yer act together.

Johpa: Do you really believe your own analysis above, which has the 'insurgency' collapsing? Do you still believe it is a secular issue, and if so, how do you reconcile this by referring to separation from the 'Buddhist State'?

As to the Thais moving with extreme prejudice, firstly, the Southern peacelovers are also Thais, or have you already conceded to their demands, and then, we have yet to see any free and democratic people take on any of the myriad radical Islamic elements with any degree of success. What do you think the southern peacelovers any different, and why should it happen now?

I do not believe that the insurgency will collapse per se, and my choice of words, "self-destruct", was incorrect, it should have been "be destroyed". I do belive that history shows that if pushed far enough that an Asian nation state will act with prejudice against such insurgents. I see no chance of Thailand, or any other country, rolling back the clock and ceding sovereignty over land to another state due to the existence of an local irredentist population.

I made no comments on the secularity, or lack thereof, on the issues. I am not sure if the concept is even relevent. And if it is a relevent concept then best perhaps should be seen as a continuum with the US, and its separation of church and state, being towards one end and Islam with religion and state being inseperable being towards the other end, with Thailand located somewhere in the middle of the continuum. But for Thailand, being in the middle of the continuum as a nominal Buddhist State, still puts it in the same opposition against Islam as is the US.

In other words, the battle against the Islamic Jihadists, which is part of the brew down south, is a combination of both secular and religious elements.

Sorry, I guess I created a bit of a misunderstanding, when I said "I have no sympathy whatsoever for these people...", I meant the army mentioned in the article, not the actual villagers.

I don't feel the other examples as being off-topic, to me they're relevant in presenting fights for freedom WITH a vision, as opposed to disorganized militaristic crap like the army in the article. I think that there is a clear difference between, for example, Russia or China's fight for freedom from a weak, corrupt monarchy, as opposed to Afghanistan or indeed Burma, which aim to replace the repressive central government with...what? Without a very clear plan of what they will do AFTER their fight is over, they can never provide a better solution...look at Iraq - repression was replaced by anarchy and chaos. I don't know about you, but I prefer repression if that is the alternative.

Members of the KNLA would probably take your comments describing them as a liberation style army as a compliment. But the reality is that the KNLA is a small rag tag group that at best provides minimal defense to the few larger camps along the border which house the limited medical facilities open to the refugees. The KNLA has never come out openly for independence from Burma, it has never waged an offensive campaign against the Burmese, and many of its active political sympathisers work closely with other local anti-government, pro-democracy groups that understand that Burma is a vast collection of ethnic groups that can work together. You really need to read up more on Burma and the various groups united behind Aung San Suu Kyi.

As for your last incredulous statement, well, alas, there are far too many like minded people born on the planet who prefer repression and no liberty to even the vaguest hint of instability. You really would be happier moving to Turkmenistan. [unnecessary ending removed. Please restrain yourself from making such comments. /Meadish]

Don't like the style of the articles, it's all one-sided journalism...everywhere in the world there are a bunch of people who want their independent this and autonomous that, with NO clue what to do with it afterwards. Or it would probably be like in areas of the former USSR, where the "freedom fighters" just want enough autonomy to smuggle God knows what across their borders.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for these people...while the Burmese government is certainly guilty of human rights abuses, it is not the monstrous genocidal regime some portray it to be and I doubt those villagers would truly be worse off if an agreement would be reached. Another piece of oh-so-informative fluff from Ms. Kate.

It is your choice, perhaps maybe not even a choice in your singular situation (in which case I suggest intense counseling), to have no sympathy for these or any other peoples. But, and ignoring your inability to communicate your thoughts in English effectively, are you suggesting that people who are being subjected to forced labor, forced relocation, torture, rape, and pillaging as well off as they can expect to ever become?

The strategy of islamic insurgents... is working perfectly.

And if you read the comment of Defense minister, you'll understand that Thai are likely to loose the battle : "The separatists trick the youths into using drugs and the addicts are then sent out to cause trouble"

This analysis is mind boggling !

Despite the ridiculous analysis by some Thai cretin, the insurgents will never win the larger battle, which is independence from the Buddhist State, and their strategy will eventually lead to self-destruction. At some point the Thais will decide that enough is enough and will carry out raids with extreme prejudice. We are nowhere near that point in time as yet.

I own a fair amount of land in Huay Sai and Mae Ann and it is very difficult finding suitable housing to buy or rent in that area. a couple of farang developers are building some small phang developments nearby but really high prices. PREM themselves are doing some kind of development and just before Nong Pla Mun there is a large Thai development going in (I may rent there while I build in Mae Ann). I really love the area and I'm glad we bought a few years ago. Good Luck to the OP.

Things sure do change. I was good friends with a Farang/Thai couple, now divorced, who lived in Mae Ann, when he was the only Farang in the area. The road was a real bumpy beech of a drive. This was before Devakul bought the land for what was originally planned to be a combination housing estate/ boarding school that later morphed into the Prem school. So keep going north towards Baan Naa Heuk (beware of drunks) or beyond for possible housing opportunities or is the road now developed up to the Mae Tang highway?

By the way, I heard there is Farang building a large house in the village where we maintain a home. Another Farang within 5km will be a first when I get back this summer.

> If you can afford to send your young lad to Prem then you should not be

> speaking of school buses. This is Thailand, so get with the program, and

> make sure to hire a car and driver for young lad.

Hehehehehehehe... But that's very true yes. Then again perhaps Prem offers a proper school bus service that's not of the 'converted pick-up with tightly packed kids in the back' type? Like something like an actual bus with seat belts and all?

Cheers,

Chanchao

Now what fun would that be?!? Maybe I could rent her my house which, as the crow flies is just over a kilometer or two from Prem but quite a bit further as the wheeled vehicle travels. The kids could jam into the back of Ai Deng's covered pickup for the 15 minute ride down to Mae Rim where the kid could then be put into a sidecar-equipped motorcycle, a noted form of traditional transportation in Mae Rim, to take the lad into into Tambom Huay Sai where Prem is located.

All kidding aside, although no longer a permanent resident, In have had a home up in Mae Rim as long as any ex-pat (over 20 years now) and I enjoy the area and when in country rarely bother to go into the city. There is a nice afternoon outdoor market with nice vendors and I have never gotten ill purchasing meat or produce there. And there is the early AM farmers market if you want to buy in bulk when entertaining a larger crowd. There are shops for just about everything and it is a short drive into the big city apart from rush hours. On the other hand, it is also a short drive from Mae Rim up to elevation and over to Samoeng to get away from the heat and pollution of the Chiang Mai Valley. Who knows, look around the area around Prem and you might even find a nice rental that is not located inside a gated community.

No, that would sound strange - unless you mean using the pronoun กระผม instead of ผม. But then again, that would create a stylistic clash with ขอโทษ - if you use กระผม you would be more likely to continue with a more deferential 'bprathaan thood' or something similar.

I have only used กระผม as a very polite affirmative/confirmative particle when needing to kiss someone's tush such as a Thai bureacrat at the local Amphoe office although I have never needed to stoop low enough for a prathaan thood although I do vaguely remember the phrase from my university days of studying Thai.

. I am hoping that my eldest son will attend the Prem Center International Scholl in Mae Rim next year, so I will need to be within school bus ride of that area.

If you can afford to send your young lad to Prem then you should not be speaking of school buses. This is Thailand, so get with the program, and make sure to hire a car and driver for young lad.

And when making an apology don't forget to use an appropriate pronoun for yourself such as khaphracao whilst addressing the other person as thaan. When apologizing, Thai allows one to explore multiple levels of obseqiousness, levels not as easily offered by using English.

If I remember correctly, the flight to Thailand was quite long. Long international flights to Thailand could show tourist information movies explaining the biggest threats to tourist as determined by TAT, law enforcement, and the health care department.

Remember the old saying, " an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". Something like this could help many tourist in Thailand stay safe while in Thailand.

No doubt the tedious boredom of those very long flights might be relieved by a film focusing upon "the heat on the beach, several shots of hard liquor, a Viagra and then vigorous sex with a bar girl".

Thanks Meadish, I knew you would know about this.

I have checked the spelling again and พุทธทาสภิกฃู is how he spells it. The picture on the front of the book actually looks a bit like Buddhadhassa.

Well then, the spelling and the picture would seem to match.

Never missed a flight before, ever.

here's how you can do it.

Immigration incompetence combined with carrier too cheap to make announcements..

...<rant deleted>....

The only incompetent person in your story is yourself. You either are an inexperienced traveller ( a likelihood as you have never missed a flight before) or you feel your time is somehow worth more than the time of others and thus feel that the Red Sea should part for you whenever you find yourself behind schedule.

You need to stop, take a deep breath, reflect, and accept personal responsibility for what happened by trying to cut things a little too close timewise. And change your name to Mark Lame.

It would become a tradgedy if the moderates down south are not able to control the radical Wahabi influenced elements who fail to make such distinctions.

Is there any evidence that Wahabi actually penetrated local muslim community? AFAIK, Thai muslims profess their own brand of islam and are quite protective about it. I believe they are home grown extremists with local chips on their shoulders.

If you do a Google search on "Wahabi southeast Asia" you will find many articles that connect Wahabism, or also known as Salafism, to Southeast Asia as well as to South Asia. It is undertsood that this was part of the quid pro quo; the fundamentalists in Saud received petrol dollars to fund fundmentalist oriented schools, madrasas, in other countries in exchange for supporting the Saudi monarchy.

It is true that historically, Muslims in Southeast Asia tended to maintain a less fundamentalist approach to Islam, almost a syncretic approach, or at least a more laid back approachto Islam. But it is also true that over the past generation, many religious schools in the region, supported by Arab petro-dollars, have been teaching, and providing scholarships to study abroad, the fundamentalist version of Islam as practiced by the Arab hillbilly clans that inhabit the Saudi peninsula, the region long considered by many Muslims to be the most backward region of Islam.

Although the region was the birthplace if Islam, the intellectual and cultural centers of Islam departed the peninsula almost immediately after the death of Muhammad. Thus within years of Mohammed's death we get the Sunni-Shia schism, a schism over succession, that takes place not on the tribal peninsula, but up towards Karbala. The first great capitol of Islam is not at the birthplace, but up towards Baghdad. A list of other historical cultural Islamic capitols would include Damascus, Cairo, Samarkand, and Alhambra, but no place in Saudi Arabia. But now, thanks to petro-dollars, and other inequalities that arise from an oil dominated economy, the world gets hillbilly Islam.

Again, I am not implying that the people down south have no grievances. But I think their grievances have more similarities with other groups in Thailand, such as the Isaan folks, for being ignored by the Bangkok elite, than they have similarities with Muslim nations in the Middle East.

And do any of these establishments serve well chilled Soju at an affordable price?

Waziristanisation Of Sourthern Thailand

The ground situation resembles partly that in the the Waziristan area of the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan and partly that in Bangladesh. There are no similarities with the ground situation in the rest of South-East Asia.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodna...raman&sid=1

There is little similarity between the Waziristan region and southern Thailand. Waziristan is an area that is outside the modern world, with little modern infrastructure, and an area in which the regional governments have rarely had effective control. The conflict in the Waziristan region is between competeing Islamic ideologies.

Southern Thailand is not completely outside of government control and there is some modern infrastructure present. The conflict is between an irredentist Islamic group and the existing Buddhist nation-state. There are really only two options as in the current state of world affairs, there will be no turning back the clock and returning the four provinces back to Malaysia. Either some moderate southerners will unilaterally enagage in talks with the Thai government to perhaps create a semi-autonomous region that still answers to Bangkok and the Palace or at some point the Thai nation state will act against the separatists with extreme prejudice and collateral damage be damned, not a pretty picture, but an option far more open to the Thai government than any governments surrounding the Waziristan region. It would become a tradgedy if the moderates down south are not able to control the radical Wahabi influenced elements who fail to make such distinctions.

I'm confused: is a planetarium being built or a telescope being installed? If the former, why would it need to be constructed on top of Doi Inthanon? A telescope on Doi Inthanon I could understand...

Why the news release clearly states several times that it is not a telescope but that it is to be Asia's largest camera TV. What exactly a camera TV is, I am not exactly sure. But for some reason it needs to be built atop an isolated mountain as does of course a Thai planetarium that would set itself apart from other planetariums in the world, which are most often located adjacent to museums.

National Planetarium in Chiang Mai

The Ministry of Science and Technology will build a national planetarium with Asia’s largest camera TV.

Prof. Dr. Yongyuth Yuthawong, the Science and Technology Minister, led a group of media members to a seminar to acknowledge the National Planetarium project. The National Astronomical Research Institute and Doi Inthanon National Park are cooperating to construct this planetarium in Doi Inthanon in Chiang Mai province, and it is expected to be completed by the end of this year. In addition, the largest camera TV in Asia will also be installed by the year 2009. The national planetarium will demonstrate Thailand’s astrological development to the international community.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 21 February 2007

And I am certain that the international community will be much impressed with Thailand's astrological prowess. I hear there is a large market in Burma for such aptitude.

Chaiyo!

Nog Nooch could be for น้องนุช or นงนุช .

I would transliterate it as nong nut, with Nut (not pronounced as in English but like newt in English) being a very common nickname.

7-11 in Thailand is owned by CP Group, and interestingly TESCO and CP are business partners.

So, who is the puppeteer and what's his agenda?

What does it matter, either CP or TESCO, both transfer profits out of Thailand.

how do you translate SMS's?

mee ther jeung mee rew. wan tee hau jeung jang hiay. mee ther nai hua jai look tang bai ciang opoun

thanks for any help.

มีเธอจึงมีเรา - there is you so there is us

วันที่เหงาจึงจางหาย - lonely day then fade away

มีเธอในหัวใจ - with you in my heart

โลกทั้งใบช่างอบอุ่น - my whole world is so warm

Thanks a lot!

How did you come up with the Thai characters based on the english letters? I can't figure out how to translate my SMS's when written in the english letters.

Buy a dictionary I guess. Where to start? I looked at the online dictionaries but they are not much help. Thanks.

Yoot is Thai, so he knows much better than those of us who are not, what a possible sentence in Thai is.

Let's face it, Khun Yoot is probably younger than many of us and has sent and received far more valentine messages over the past years than the rest of us combined. Regardless, after finding the original transliteration impossible to parse, I click my heels and tip my hat to his translation of a genre this old fart now finds nearly alien.

Another step back to the 1950's for the Culture Ministry...

Back in the 1950s and 1960s they had ramwong girls dancing at public events and, even though by todays standards the dress was conservative, the equally more conservative self-annoited keepers of public morals of that time also complained in outrage about their performances at public events.

I can't speak about Bangkok, but the last major ramwong club in Chiang Mai, The Hennesey club, closed up some 20 years ago.

Johpa,

You have some interesting points, very strongly said. Your political and economic views are interesting and hold some truth, but this was lost in your no holds barred attack on wintermute. I think you do yourself a disservice.

Wintermute, though his arguments may or may not be stronger than yours, clearly wins this discussion, due to his greater self control. Wintermute may have flamed a little too, but your last paragraph is awful. All you good work and interesting points were undone.

Relax, my friend, this is an internet forum, not life or death.

Well I do beg forgiveness for failing to note, or at least sense, that there was a higher authority present. But how very Thai of you, me lord, to judge others based upon the perceived face presented and not upon substance.

By the way, despite your condemnation, and after thoughtful reconsideration, I still really like that last paragraph in my previous post.