Johpa

......I must say i am not critisising this from a grammar nor anything similar, ( i dislike those no brainers )

but it is a bit confusing the way i am reading it......

I still think you are not up to speed on the reality as a result of this and if you believe there are no big fish connected to the poor north situation as you describe it then i think again you really are far from reality.

As for you comments on the coup i think the are better placed in a related thread, of which their are several running.

If i read of these observations I, along with other posters i,m sure, will offer my comments should i read them in a broader context and differ from mine / others.

I appreciate you being sympathetic to the extra judicial killings by the way.

marshbags

Marshbags, the only reality that I fear I may be a bit distant from is the rather strange reality that you seem to inhabit. So let us agree to disagree on our perceptions and readings of this particular matter and (you really need to thank me for this one) agree to both back off from any grammatical showdowns.

So as the good Captain use to say: "Smooth sailing and bye bye for now."

Dunno about the law but I've been married for 18 years to a Thai, my wife has always continued to use her family name. I lived in Thailand for 10 years and never had a problem getting Non Imm 'O' visas at a number of different Thai embassies or 1 year extensions in country. My wife never had problems to get Visa for Europe at embassies in Thailand or outside. All what is ever required is a copy (sometimes a need to see the original) of the marriage certificate. We were married in South Africa though so certificate is in English (but not very impresive). I would think if you married in Thailand you would need to have a certified translation to show to officials outside Thailand. She was once challenged when she went to renew her ID card at the Amphur "How come you are still 'Miss' and over 30?" (I think they saw me sitting outside!) but she said she wasn't married and that was the end of that. In UK she uses the title Ms but her complete Thai name for bank accounts etc. Never had a problem.

I've been married a similar amount of time, starting back in the days when there was more legal discrimination against women married to Farangs than today. We were married in Thailand and after being asked for some tea money upon registering the marriage at the Amphoe, we simply avoided the next office where we were asked to go change her name. So her documentation in Thai is in her maiden name and and her US documenation in the US is is my family name. And yes, she also gets questioned a bit about still being a "Miss". Never had any problems apart from one incident with a Queen B**** at a Thai consulate who became quite upset about the matter.

Thais scamming Chinese, now there's a first. Keep going for another 300 years and it'll be about quits, I'd say.

Confucious say: "Teo Chiu will eat Cantonese for lunch and Mandarin for breakfast and wipe their arse with the rest of the world.

I appreciate your clarification on the Drug War of your previous post, Johpa... but I'm bit curious as there are a few on this Forum that would have us believe that the overwhelming majority of Northern Thais are so totally and uniformly angered by the coup. They'd have us believe that the Northern Thais are plotting overthrows of the government after storming their way to Bangkok and that they are, almost to the person, furious about Thaksin's removal and will never accept the coup.... or at least that is the crux of their posting.

It's always nice to hear from people living directly in that area that perhaps these are mere exaggerations.

Just to clarify things, currently I am not living in Thailand, my observations are from an earlier visit soon after these actions took place and from follow-up conversations with family members, one of whom is a teacher (the best intelligence network in the rural areas are the local teachers) and another who works for a local development council (O.P.T.), sorry can't remember exactly what it stands for and the wife is asleep.

It is clear that the rural poor supported Taksin, and why not? He did throw them some bones with his "populist" policies. Taksin threw some bones to the poor to gather their votes, just as other political parties have done for generations. He just threw them a bigger bone because he had the ability to go out a buy a bigger bone to throw. And when he got in power he threw them some bones from the government, his perceived "populist" policies to maintain his voting support during elections. For example, in one small minority village I have known for 25 years now, he had the government distribute bicycles to familes whose kids had to walk quite a distance to the nearest school. For a rarther small cost he bought the hearts and minds of an entire village area for two generations. But none of these people are going to get involved directly in politics. The rural poor are not the people rumored to be plotting against the coup. When the rural poor start to get involved in politics you need to tread carefully as this is not tolerated by the elite in Bangkok. Read Chai-anan and Morrell's book Political Conflict in Thailand why the rural poor are hesistant to become involved, especially those up north.

The poor had better be careful now that the Taksin has been removed. The opposition is using the "populist" policies of the TRT party as one of the primary scapegoats and are begining to do some serious badmouthing of the rural poor in public. The opponents to the TRT, such as Sondhi Limthongkul, are organizing in such a way as to unite the newest elite in control of the biggest piece of the pie with the "middle class" in opposition to the rural poor. This path is as dangerous to Thailand as was the megalomaniac path of Taksin as it combines a class conflict with a cleverly veiled ethnic conflict.

Extrajudicial killings aside, the war on drugs worked. Usage plummeted and prices soared. Not sure how many if you were around before and after, but there was a huge difference in terms of the amount of drugs available on the street and in schools.

How did it work? Drugs are still available, the only people arrested or shot were low level dealers, ex-addicts and throw in some innocent people for good measure.

If Thaksin and his cronies had really cared about the drugs problem then there would have been long term measures to help addicts, arrest the top drug dealers / bosses and implement long term positive anti-drug policies. But what did we get? A complete farce instead.

The whole farce just sums up how Thaksin and most politicians couldn't give a rat's ass about Thailand or Thai people.

From the perspective of the people most negatively impacted by the drug epidemic, the rural villagers, the program of extra-judical killings did work. It removed the source of drugs from the local amphoe secondary schools where the villager's children were constantly being presssured to purchase low cost meth-amphetamines. It lowered the number of junkies in the villages and thus lowered the local crime, mostly theft and domestic violence, including murder. It is hard for those in the larger towns and in the ex-pat ghettos to fully appreciate the misery this drug epidemic caused to the rural villagers only a short time after they had overcome the worst of the AIDs epidemic of the 1990s.

Extra-judicial justice is nothing new to the rural poor, nor is violence and murder out of the ordinary in the villages. Few of the rural folks have access to courts or lawyers. You are all imaging the world of rural Thailand to be similar to your world and it is not.

Another good example of extra-judical killings took place up north in the early 1970s. A good read of this time can be found in Political Conflict in Thailand by David Morrell and Chaianan Samudavanija. Those killings kept rural folks for becoming involved in politics for over a generation. I suspect the drug killings had a similar effect on some potential drug dealer wannabes.

I am not condoning the actions of the Taksin government and you seemed to have missed that point in my original post, if not perhaps missed the larger point entirely. But many rural Thais were happy that the government was dealing with the drug problem at their level where the harm was being done. Are there still dealers and drugs out there? For sure, but far fewer selling directly to 13 year old kids. And sure no high level dealers or actors in the drug trade were going to be targeted. The people understand that the government is powerless to move against the upper echelons of the drug trade as that would involve moving against very high ranking government people and their bankers. But again, they were happy that the problem from their vantage point was improved. Were innocents, relative to the drug trade, killed along the way? Sure, but such killings were not uncommon before and not uncommon now.

Johpa, lets be real here.

The fact is that the majority of the victims of this pathetic one sided show to clean up drugs where either innocent or small fish in a big pond.

It was a selective ethnic cleansing programme to silence the ones in the know while protecting the big fish.

How can anyone claim the drug situation has been addressed when ALL the main dealers, PUYAI ect are still walking freely and able to continue with their deadly trade.

It really is a load of bullshit to say that many rural Thai,s are happy with the gov. and how it was dealing / has dealt with the situation.

To say and i quote you :-

" And sure no high level dealers or actors in the drug trade were going to be targeted. The people understand that the government is powerless to move against the upper echelons of the drug trade as that would involve moving against very high ranking government people and their bankers. But again, they were happy that the problem from their vantage point was improved. Were innocents, relative to the drug trade, killed along the way? Sure, but such killings were not uncommon before and not uncommon now. "

How far from reality can you be ??????

In the north east where i live all that has happened is the dealing has gone underground and as such is even more dangerous to control.

Had some of these hig profile dealers been took out in the same murderous way the small fish / innocent where it would have looked like it really was a genuine attempt to rid the country of this vile trade.

Finally you attempts to / or appear to justify the actions of these evil executioners by the latter part of your post in saying that innocents relative to the drug trade are not uncommon and that makes it o.k. and therefore acceptable.

Even the guilty ones at the lower level of this trade DESERVED a fair trial and the right to be judged on the outcome in pro portion to their alledged crimes, if i may be allowed to repeat a past observation / statement.

marshbags

As I noted, the majority of those killed were indeed small fish in the pond, but you won't find the big fish in the rural areas. I am not sure what you are getting at regarding ethnic cleansing, but many of those killed that I heard about, including a distant cousin, were so far down the ladder they would not know who the big fish were.

And I agree with you wholeheartedly that the drug problem as a whole has not been addressed nor will it be addressed. Again, as I noted, the people understand that nothing is going to happen to those higher up. Your reasons for becoming a bit apoplectic when we are in agreement here is a bit bewildering.

Look, my perspective comes from the poorer areas of the rural north and not from Isaan. But when this was happening a few years ago, many people in the villages were happy because they saw a lessening of drug activities in the schools. They had not been happy that their children, including my nephews and nieces, were coming home with stories about drugs being sold openly to 13 year olds. After the action, the selling inside the schools stopped and yes, it went underground and prices went up and exploratory usage by young teenagers dropped. People were indeed pleased as life improved.

I was not particuarly pleased by the extra-judicial murders, but I am not a poor rural Thai. I would never condone these actions. My post was not intended to justify these murders but only to describe how they were perceived by many rural Thai people I have met. From the perspective a a rural Thai, the effort did work.

Its sort of like the recent coup. Nobody is really happy that Taksin was removed by a military coup but they are all happy he was removed and are resigned to fact that a military coup was the only likely method to remove him. The villagers were not totally pleased that the killings happened but were resigned to the reality that it worked to improve their lives even a small bit.

So as you can see, I am not all that far from your reality, but I think I am perhaps more able, at the same time, to understand the reality as perceived by some of the Thais. I am not going to judge these people because they are my friends and family and for the greater part they are very good people indeed.

Extrajudicial killings aside, the war on drugs worked. Usage plummeted and prices soared. Not sure how many if you were around before and after, but there was a huge difference in terms of the amount of drugs available on the street and in schools.

How did it work? Drugs are still available, the only people arrested or shot were low level dealers, ex-addicts and throw in some innocent people for good measure.

If Thaksin and his cronies had really cared about the drugs problem then there would have been long term measures to help addicts, arrest the top drug dealers / bosses and implement long term positive anti-drug policies. But what did we get? A complete farce instead.

The whole farce just sums up how Thaksin and most politicians couldn't give a rat's ass about Thailand or Thai people.

From the perspective of the people most negatively impacted by the drug epidemic, the rural villagers, the program of extra-judical killings did work. It removed the source of drugs from the local amphoe secondary schools where the villager's children were constantly being presssured to purchase low cost meth-amphetamines. It lowered the number of junkies in the villages and thus lowered the local crime, mostly theft and domestic violence, including murder. It is hard for those in the larger towns and in the ex-pat ghettos to fully appreciate the misery this drug epidemic caused to the rural villagers only a short time after they had overcome the worst of the AIDs epidemic of the 1990s.

Extra-judicial justice is nothing new to the rural poor, nor is violence and murder out of the ordinary in the villages. Few of the rural folks have access to courts or lawyers. You are all imaging the world of rural Thailand to be similar to your world and it is not.

Another good example of extra-judical killings took place up north in the early 1970s. A good read of this time can be found in Political Conflict in Thailand by David Morrell and Chaianan Samudavanija. Those killings kept rural folks for becoming involved in politics for over a generation. I suspect the drug killings had a similar effect on some potential drug dealer wannabes.

I am not condoning the actions of the Taksin government. But many rural Thais were happy that the government was dealing with the drug problem at their level where the harm was being done. Are there still dealers and drugs out there? For sure, but far fewer selling directly to 13 year old kids. And sure no high level dealers or actors in the drug trade were going to be targeted. The people understand that the government is powerless to move against the upper echelons of the drug trade as that would involve moving against very high ranking government people and their bankers. But again, they were happy that the problem from their vantage point was improved. Were innocents, relative to the drug trade, killed along the way? Sure, but such killings were not uncommon before and not uncommon now.

I completed the 40+ series of Maani and am now almost finished with the 9 lesson Mary Hass series of reading lessons. The big advantage of both series is the online (downloadable) voice files and the repetitive nature of vocabulary from one lesson to the next. I feel like I'm making excellent progress....but now I'm getting the shakes worrying about what I'll do for a follow on to Mary Hass's excellent program. Might anyone be aware of another reading/writing series that uses the repetitive vocabulary style of these two programs? Any/all help appreciated.

When I was learning Thai a few decades ago we went from the Haas reader to the Jones, Mendiones, & Reynolds Thai Cultural Reader. There are no tapes to go with it, and I am sure it will not have more modern vocabulary and plenty of outdated vocabulary, but it was a good reader to transition from stories designed for students of Thai to stories designed for Thais.

Can't afford 30 baht??? BS. Maybe one in a million. Anybody who believes that "we" can save them all with handouts is foolish. In every society somebody has to be poor (even destitute). That's the reality of the world that we live in. Don't even try to feel sympathy for the garbage collector. Somebody has to do it, and since you are unwilling... well, there you go.

Poor folks will try to escape their misery with alcohol, cigarettes, and/or even a donation to the church/temple. But jeez, 30 baht to save their own gluteus maximus... oh no, that's too much.

Oh holier than thou sahib, how nice it must be to be able to live the good life as a neo-colonial in Thailand with your head forever buried deep in the sand to avoid seeing the poor of the country.

I would be most happy to take you on a tour of villages where people have little free cash and live a life of self-sufficiency by finding food in the forests. I have known plenty of people unable to afford transportation and 30 baat for health care. They tend to be elderly or minorities. They can include alcoholics who drink cheap liquor you have probably never seen. They may even smoke cigarettes from very poor quality tobacco rolled in newspaper. They may dig for grubs for a lunch and a dinner of a single cabbage, rice, and some chilis. Fortunately for Thailand, the environment provides enough to prevent outright malnutrition.

Oh, but it is just their tough luck having been born poor, without access to much of an education. Feel no pity for these folks but rejoice in the glory of those born in wealthier societies who are now able to live an even more luxurious life in Thailand than in their homeland. I mean they really freaking earned their good birth fortune while that poor sod living in his little hut, often landless due to some eduacated city schemer decades ago, deserves his misfortune because, well that's the way the ball bounces, eh?

And how dare these poor folks attempt to escape their poverty by cheap alchohol and cigarettes. The neve of them not wanting to accept their fate.

One in a million? I could personally introduce you to hundreds.

As my brilliant Thai wife frequently points out, "If you produce good quality food, eventually you will have to struggle to keep up with the customers lined up at your door but it takes time to establish your reputation." She watches for the really crowded Thai restaurants and makes her always successful choices of new restaurants to try based pretty much on that alone. Allow me to mention that she has vast experience and creates the best Thai cuisine that I have ever had, right here in our own home.

Here in the US, my wife thought the same way: give good food and they will come. So she opened a Thai restaurant in a good location and she is one of the better Thai cooks I have encountered. But sorry to say, good food alone is not enough to insure a successful business. What is more important is the total dining experience, an attractive interior, and attractive staff, and some ambiance. Most westerners will forego good food in favor of the total experience which is why so many establishments with only decent, or even mediocre food, thrive and some places with great food whither away.

We just sold her establishment for an acceptable loss to end my nightmare.

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In the rural areas I rarely hear such formality upon meeting. I hear either

ca pai nai (where are you going?)

or

kin khao lao reu yang (have you eaten yet?)

Pho Luang and phuu yai baan are one and the same. Phuu yai baan is the title and pho luang is the common form of address and also can be used as the title.

The headman is democratically elected by the villagers, often from one of the wealthier families or more connected families. Traditionally he was one of the more respected elders of a village and often one who spent more than the minimum three months as a monk in the Sangha, often several years. But more recently, with more modern administrative work, one often sees younger and slightly more modernly educated men being elected with the older men serving in the background settling disputes. The headmen would often serve as the phuu yais in disputes between people from neighboring villages. He also serves as the conduit for the government and as the connection to the local kamnaan, the sub-district head who is also elected locally, and who reports to the head of the district, the naay amphoe, who is appointed by the government from above. The headman is also responsible for delivering the votes for his political party during elections.

Although you can find some real scoundrels serving as headman, most I've met are pretty interesting men with good social skills in handling conflicts and deserving of respect.

Often people claim to be village headmen to outsiders like trekkers and visiting anthropologists, two groups who inevitably claim to end up in a headman's house.

Someone used this in the context of "Mike pout mak mak" I know or I am fairly certain that

mak mak means very much or very, but I don't get pout. Any ideas... Regards, Bd

Sounds a bit like bar boy/ bar girl Thai to me. Maybe it is a Central Thai thing, but I don't here Northerners using that particular construction often. I hear phuut maak (said with emphasis) or phuut yeu, but not phuut maak maak.

Thanks. Interesting.

Any other stories about regulars at Oasis?

In the early 1980s I met 3 Aussies who were regulars, I mean drinking at the Oasis just about every night, who had robbed a bank down under and were living a fun life on the lam in Chiang Mai town.

Typical story from some Aussies here to have a good time, no matter the story

Good point as I have never met an Aussie in the bars of Chiang Mai not having a good time. Then there was at least one Aussie, working in Chiang Mai at about the same time who went back to Australia where they did not appreciate his living in the fast lane and he ended up becoming a guest of the Australian government under rather confining conditions.

Thaksin's great-grandfather Seng Sae Khu made his fortune through tax farming.

I have to ask. What is tax farming?

Tax farming is the generic term for allowing private citizens or parties to collect taxes for the government. In 19th and early 20th century Thailand, this was almost exclusively given to Chinese. Traditional Thai economics was not monetary based and taxes were usally in the form of corvee labor, that is the men were required to donate several months labor to the crown or local lord.

In contrast, the Chinese economy had been monetized for centuries and the poorest Chinese peasant had a basic understanding of such things as money, taxes, loans, interest, etc. So the influx of Chinese, who also were involved in many of the newer urban based business that were taxed, were the logical choice to help collect the new taxes in the provinces further from the palace. Of course a "tax farmer" would usually take a cut of the taxes for himself. It was a very lucrative position as far as both money and influence. It also was a major factor in the Chinese near monoply on commerce in Thailand.

From an historical perspective, Australia's attitude to Asia has been immensely ignorant and arrogant. Australia has never come to terms with the implications of its geographical location in Asia. The country has always seen itself as a European enclave on the butt end of the universe.

The White Australia policy effectively stopped any Asian immigration to that underpopulated country crying out for workers and families - until the 1960s. During the first half of the 20C bulk Brits and southern Europeans (Italians and Greeks) were given assisted passage to help populate Australia.

In the aftermath of the Vietnam war in the '70s, the Labour Party relaxed immigration restrictions and allowed some Vietnamese refugees to enter Australia, amidst howls of protest from a solid core of racist die-hards.

The underlying racism in Australia has not disappeared......

I believe the traditional immigration policy of Australia was encapsulated in the following ode:

If you are white, it's all right

If you are brown, you might stay around

If you are black, you must go back

I've been told that Russel Crowe's breakout role in Romper Stomper was pretty spot on.

Thanks. Interesting.

Any other stories about regulars at Oasis?

In the early 1980s I met 3 Aussies who were regulars, I mean drinking at the Oasis just about every night, who had robbed a bank down under and were living a fun life on the lam in Chiang Mai town.

Anyone know what happened to the American who ran Oasis bar - now Johns Place/Cozy corner??

Pretty sure that he drank himself to death.

Old Stuart/Stewart. You got that one right UG, a bottle or 2 of the heavy stuff a day will do it. And his missus was just waiting for him to die. She wasn't a very nice lady.

She was in all likelihood the reason that he was drinking.

Yes, Stuart died from alchoholism. For some reason I can't even remember the name of his wife, but her common nickname was simply "the dragon lady".

Can he stop Thaksin from returning?

Regards

can you stop a Thai citizen from returning?

Martial Law says it all. Under ML they can make breaking wind illegal if they so wish - may not be a bad idea, can see all the full cheeks now. :whistling:555

Taksin is certainly not the first PM forced into exile after a coup. Thanom was forced into exile back in 1973. Other notable Thais have also been sent into exile. The oddest perhaps being Sulak Sivaraksa's partially self-imposed exile for lese majeste charges despite the fact that he is a conservative and ardent monarchist. And at least one other very high sakdina ranked person was once sent into exile to England for a year for misbehaving well beyond the pale of already minimal acceptable Thai behavior. And this is what happened to Taksin as his practices to enrich his personal coffers reached, yes a bit hard to believe, yet a new nadir for such nefarious activities by the Thai elite.

Alas, for those of us who have been observing Thai politics for decades, when the scoundrels who comprise the Thai elite send someone into exile, it usually means the bar for corrupt and bad behavior has been reset to yet a new low.

While the outside may be stark and uninviting, the insides are beautiful! Quiet, relaxing lounges, a lovely, although somewhat narrow swimming pool, rooms with beautiful views of the river as well as the garden being built around the old British Consulate which has been turned into a nice bar and restaurant. The Indian foods served there are well made, nicely presented with excellent service, and of good portion size. In fact, the service all through the Chedi was fast and unobtrusive.

The prices may be a bit steep for some, but you do get what you pay for. As for the outside looks.... well, perhaps thats only a problem for those who have to remain outside. I doubt that the Chedi management worries to much about them. When you go to a hotel, isn't it the inside comforts and the service that are of more value than the exterior design?

The Fly Fisherman

Clearly what such customers pay for is to be seated next to equally wealthy and pretentious people.

Wealthy they must be, but why do you assume that they are pretentious? Or are all people who stay at expensive hotels pretentious? Do you have valid reasoning behind calling them as such?

There must be a LOT of pretentious folks around, as they've just opened 4-5 hotels large just in Chiang Mai in the same price range. I have a feeling there are more of these hotels in other areas as well. On the other hand, they've opened more bars filled with lots of inexpensive bar girls on Loi Khroh too. If you wish, (not meaning you personally, of course, ) you can sit next to people who have to buy their friends. Balance in all things.

The Fly Fisherman

I do not find all wealthy people pretentious, although many are. But sorry, I did find your description of this particular hotel to be reeking of pretentiousness, something worthy of a kite flyer more than a fly fisherman.

I do not believe wealthy people have a monopoly on pretentiousness and I am sure I could find many equally pretentious people at the bars along Loi Khroh. However, I fail to see the connection as my experience would indicate that wealth is not a factor relative to the need of many to purchase short-time satisfaction.

While the outside may be stark and uninviting, the insides are beautiful! Quiet, relaxing lounges, a lovely, although somewhat narrow swimming pool, rooms with beautiful views of the river as well as the garden being built around the old British Consulate which has been turned into a nice bar and restaurant. The Indian foods served there are well made, nicely presented with excellent service, and of good portion size. In fact, the service all through the Chedi was fast and unobtrusive.

The prices may be a bit steep for some, but you do get what you pay for. As for the outside looks.... well, perhaps thats only a problem for those who have to remain outside. I doubt that the Chedi management worries to much about them. When you go to a hotel, isn't it the inside comforts and the service that are of more value than the exterior design?

The Fly Fisherman

Clearly what such customers pay for is to be seated next to equally wealthy and pretentious people.

Let me explain my situation:

I'm 48 and have had a live in gf for 5+ years. .........I have provided her with a set amount of cash to use as she wishes monthly. This amount has been consistently 16K per month but not more. I pay all daily expenses so she never needs to use the cash for this. .......She has in the past year been telling me that she is worried about her future and how I never make sure about her (I'm guessing a reference to marriage). I tell her not to worry as I like her very much and would never dump her. I also tell her that I would understand if she were to dump me to find a partner to marry. One thing is sure, I have no plans to marry anyone but I suppose that could change one day........My take is that I like the status quo of living together with her and relaxing but have no interest in village visits or marriage. .......Neither of us work btw. another thing is that she is always pressuring me to say "I love you" but I never say it. It is one of those things I do not like to say.

My question to the forum is: am I being unreasonable here? Should i be doing anything differently? What should I be telling her?

I think your are being totally unreasonable as I think that if all you want in life is a live-in whore then 16K a month is way too steep a price. Just tell her your going to trade her in for a 12K a month whore who is a few years younger and closer to your own maturational age.

Racism or not.... it is a lot of money to go and see a waterfall.

If you were a family of four here on vacation, it would cost you 1600 THB, over 40 USD every time you visited a national park. This alone will probably deter a lot of people.

And this happens quite frequently at the small waterfall at the edge of National Forest land adjacent to my village. This small park is a bit out of the way, about 10km off the highway. It does not get too many visitors, mostly the occasional low budget young folk willing to explore on their rented Dreams & Wave motorcycles. I would guess that over half the foreign vistors balk at having to cough up 200B each for a small park with minimal facilities and either turn around or continue on up the road.

This small park use to be free for all visitors and was popular with local rural Thai familes, and especially with students where young couples could get lost in the forest and make out. It use to be popular enough that the local women would open up som tam and other food stalls on weekends and holidays. But with the imposition of fees that all ended, few Thais, few foreigners, and no more som tam stalls.

Realistically, what else can they do with squatters? Ask police to evict them?

Legally it can draw for years, while someone has invested money and the rent has to be paid.

Third world problems - third world solutions.

I would think it preferable for the police to evict the shopowners in an orderly fashion rather than having an influential person hire 100 off-duty policemen to act as thugs. And I believe the tenants were paying rent and were in the midst of legal proceedings to clarify the legal status of the leases relative to the new owners of the property who wish to redevelop the property.

One does not need to travel to the third world to find property owners who will do just about anything to break a lease in order to redevelop the property. It is a time honored tradition. Those who control the land have often been even more ruthless than those who control the means of production.

More likely a private visit by a Royal as such unofficial visits use to me marked by police at every intersection. Long ago one of the princesses use to enjoy dining at the old location of the Coq D'Or along Chaiyaphum, located near to the long forgotten Farang drinking establishments of the My Place bar and the old Karen Hut bar. It was probably the closest I ever got to Thai Royalty. I wonder if a Royal could still go out to a restaurant for dinner in town?

I reckon that after 20 years of marriage to a Thai and nearly 30 years experience in Thailand, my experience would indicate that 90% of the marriages of Farang men to Thai women will end in disaster. Play the odds and keep the kid either home or in your sight 24/7 when in Thailand. And make it clear that if she splits with the kid, there will be no financial support in the future unless the child remains with you.

A Thai woman going to a marriage counselor,