KevinB

To the Pool I will definitely post the end of the saga - when I get there.

In fact I'll share it blow by blow. Even if it does mean a string of negative and grumpy comments.

Terry H - I entered Thailand in March on a Single Entry Non Immigrant O Visa valid for 1 Month - which is why I shot in the next day.

Well folk now you can see what I'm talking about - you have to be careful that you don't cross the guys who think this is their site - NO ALTERNATE VIEWS ALLOWED. - And that ThaiVisa is Not open to members of the Public looking for some clarity in the confusion of getting to stay in Thailand when you are not old enough (or want to) Retire

At no point have I said that I was applying for an Extension of Stay on the basis of marriage - all my Non-Immigrant O Visas are issued on the basis that I am the father of two children both born here in Thailand. Promise !!!!!! - this is one of the conditions by which the Kingdom of Thailand issues Non-Immigrant O Visas. If folk actually read the posts they object to - before they reply they may have noticed that I was talking about my sons and my sons' birth certificates, stating clearly that I'm not married to my partner. and Yes !!!!!!! you can get a 12 month Extension of Stay on the basis that you are the parent of children resident here. And yes!!!! like an extension to stay when legally married Thai Immigration requires you to prove you have THB 400,000 in a local account for a number of months.

Also at no point did I say that I was trying to "change" my Visa into an Extension of Stay - that's what I'm actually applying for. In fact that what Canadian Girl 2 (the original poster) has to apply for, and my original advice to her (if you read back) is to hurry in and do it ASAP before her current 90 day expires.

And Terry H - nothing I said was directed at you - I was merely advising that you were wasting your time asking some posters to actually say what was WRONG in a post that they had just trashed (as I see you have noticed in your latest post) - that's the way it is on TV - some posters just say "it is all rubbish" - when it is actually what happened to someone. I was polite at the beginning even stating in my first post that the first reply to the original post was dead right. if fact I only objected to Ubonjoe's comment that you could do this with a SINGLE ENTRY VISA - which on the basis of my experience you CAN'T DO at Samut Prakan immigration Office.

Hey all you grumpy old guys - I've enjoyed the banter but seriously you should read what is written and give some space to people actually sharing what happened to them - not what they think or assume about the immigration laws of Thailand. .

Terry H - don't waste your time - there are so many of the regular posters on TV who know absolutely EVERYTHING. No good arguing with them or asking then to be explain the basis of their "knowledge". The level of "trolling" on TV is so high that many of us, who log on a regular basis, don't even bother to post our own views because they may offend one of those with "supreme and unchallengeable knowledge". But I do think it is a bit unfair having folk post views which will cause some people reading this site to have problems when they come to Thailand.

I went to the Samut Prakan Immigration Office (for us living out in the many new cluster home projects out along Bangna Trat Rd - this is where we are meant to go) in late January 2014 to get a 12 month extension of stay (I have a Thai partner - we are not married and we have 2 children). I had a 6 month visa multiple entry Non-Immigrant O Visa issued in Doha, Qatar. I was told that as I only had 10 working days in the time left on my Visa (actually 14 calendar days) they could not process my application. I was with my partner and because this information was different from my last visit in December (when they queried that my balance in my bank account had dipped THB20 below THB400,000 for a week - bank charges) we politely asked to see the office in charge. We were told by him in both flawless English and Thai that this was the case - that it now takes at least 4 weeks for them to process an application for extension of stay. Everything else was in order - my sons birth certificates, my bank book, letter from the bank about my cash assets , my household register, the photos of the family etc - but there was insufficient time to process things.

While in Nigeria on a consultancy I went to the Thai Embassy in Abuja to get a new Non-Immigrant O Visa. Because of special conditions there (all visa applicants are required to have a certificate from the local Drug Enforcement authorities that they have not committed a drug related offence in the last year) I had to speak to the Officer in Charge of the Visa section. I explained my case to him and he waived the requirement to have a the drug clearance certificate (only required for Nigerian Citizens) . In our discussions he confirmed that the immigration Office in Samut Prakan was correct that about 4 weeks are now required to process an extension of Stay because the Immigration Department had recently centralised parts of the authorisation process after some irregular activities had been noted at some provincial offices (he had just been back in BKK for some training). I had applied for a multiple entry visa - he told me I only needed a SINGLE ENTRY Visa. So on his advice and because multiple entry Visas in Nigeria are more expensive than in other places I've got them - that is what I got.

On my return to Thailand in March - the very next day after my arrival - I went back to Samut Prakan with all my documents plus my partner and two children and one of our maids to help to look after our over-active two year old while we saw the Officer-in-Charge. This time the problem was that I had a Single Entry Visa which the Immigration Official at the airport had neatly stamped USED and therefore as the head of office explained - this meant that I didn't have a valid visa.

I'm currently out the country again and will return next month this time with a Multiple Entry Non Immigrant O Visa and try again. In this respect I felt some affinity with Canadian Girl 2 because of her problems at what ever immigration Office she and her husband had visited - which is why I bothered to share my experiences on line.

Now all the old and grumpy posters who know so much about everything can put that in your pipe and smoke it. But I can tell you there are some people out there who are going to appreciate that I have bothered to post what has, and is happening to me, - because unlike these older folk who know so much, these people maybe in a similar position to me. Good Luck folks but remember what ever you read here on ThaiVisa DEPENDS on which Embassy you go to and also DEPENDS which Immigration office you go to.

PS - I don't expect an apology from those learned and cock-sure folk that know everything about the Kingdom of Thailand's immigration law. It's slowing changing as new regulations come in - so let others share their experiences without having some grumpy bugger jump down their throat.

the pool responded

Kevin

Your post reveals a lot of confusion and misunderstanding.

I note that you are a Senior member but I'm not confused. I'm actually reporting what has happened to me over the last couple of years. It seems strange that many of the older posters get upset when "corrected". The truth is, as many of the members of TV report on many of the Visa topics on this forum: the confusion is often the result of varied responses from different Immigration Officers, in a variety of Immigration Offices across Thailand and from Visa Officers stationed at numerous Thai Embassy's across the globe.

Maybe I'm being misunderstood but I'm reporting about what has happened to me - I'm sorry that it conflicts with other posters experience - which I'm sure has been based on their actual experience. The point is that it is that the situation is variable - it even varies at the same Immigration Office between the Officers stationed there.

There must be few posters who have got Non-Immigrant O Visas at the variety of Embassies I have - I'm an active international consultant always traveling and working in different countries: London, Frankfurt, Paris, Pretoria, Doha (Qatar), Nairobi, Abuja (Nigeria), Manila, Beijing, Auckland, Sydney, Jakarta, Seoul, Hanoi and a couple of places I think I've forgotten and would have to look through my 2 or three full business passports to remember them. Equally I must have meet and dealt with more Immigration officials than most the Expats living here - over the last 8 years I generally depart and arrive in Bangkok at least 12 times a year and am at a Immigration office at least a couple of times a year.

I can report with no confusion or misunderstanding than many of the International users of TV in different parts of the World are going to find real Variation in what they are told at each of these Embassies they use and that, when they go into an Immigration Office here in Thailand they very well may be disappointed that what the were told (and what the read on TV) may very well be different from the reality.

I might add that is what the Original poster of this string noted and she got some pretty sharp responses from some of the regulars.

By the way one other observation on this string - there are difference conditions applied to various passports / citizenship and some of the folk responding on TV often forget this. Many passports only get 30 day visas on arrival - some are given 90 days if they ask for it - respectable looking with a fully paid up 3 month return ticket, no problem - dodgy back-packer, difficult. For many passports this is not even an option - 3 and 6 month stays must be based on Visas obtained (and paid for) outside the Country

I live in Thailand when not working on projects overseas and often want to stay with my family longer than one month - If I remember to ask at the airport I can get 2 months no problem (I normally have a 6 month Multiple entry Visa in my Passport) Equally I've never had a problem going into Immigration before my entry permit expires and getting an extension (or just paying an over-stay fine at the airport if I over run a few days). Having multiple entry Visas in my passport has now created another problem for me in boarding a plane bound for Thailand I'm asked where is your current Visa for Thailand - saying "I Don't need one to enter for under a month" (with 4 or 5 old 6 month visas)only causes problems - they have to look it up in a book.

Hence my decision to switch to a 12 month Extension of Stay with Multiple re-Entry stamps.

UBONJOE POSTED
"I suspect somebody at an embassy or consulate. sold you on the multiple entry visa and possibly gave you false info on how it worked.

You really only needed a single entry visa.

As said if you plan on making several trips out of the country you can apply for a multiple re-entry permit (3800 baht) or a single (1000 baht).

From my recent experience it is clear that (at my Immigration Office) you cannot get an Extension of Stay UNLESS YOU HAVE A MULTIPLE ENTRY NON IMMIGRANT O VISA IN YOUR PASSPORT. So the OP is wrong about only needing a SINGLE ENTRY VISA. I had the Immigration Official at the Thai Embassy I visited to get my Non-Immigrant O Visa inform me Incorrectly. Enter Thailand on SINGLE ENTRY VISA and the officials at the airport stamp it USED - when you get to Immigration you can't apply for the Extension of Stay because you don't have a valid Visa.

What the poster is right about is that when you have your 12 month Permission to Stay you need to get a Multiple re-entry Permit and as others have reported it takes about 15 - 20 mins at the Main International Airport on departure.

The very first post was correct - you need to convert your multiple entry - Non-Immigrant O Visa into a permission to stay for 12 months (and meet the conditions - some post indicate the rules are different for women). I've been in the same position but let me warn you do it ASAP as they seem to have an internal rule that your need at least 3- 4 weeks on your current entry permit to PROCESS the PERMISSION TO STAY DUE TO MARRIAGE (or PARENT OF THAI CHILDREN).

I went in with only 10 days left on my Entry stamp and they told me I couldn't do it.

GOOD LUCK - I agree with you Border runs are a real drag.

No problem at all - my current passport is littered with overstay stamps - and the fact that I've paid my fine. I've never had an Immigration Officer comment on them when I'm at a border or when I'm in their office getting a Visa extension.

While I'm on-line let me share with everyone some info I recently picked up on Non-Immigrant 'O' Visas issued on the basis of having dependent children (off the topic but maybe useful to some reading this thread). I was told in an interview with a senior Official at one of the Greater Bangkok Immigration Offices that new regulations were about to be passed and implemented which will require a person applying for a Non Immigrant 'O' Visa based on Thai children to not just produce a birth certificate for the child where he is named as the father BUT ALSO a legal document acknowledging his commitment to support and take financial responsibility for the child. This will have to be obtained from a Thai lower court (a magistrate court). He told me the Department was pushing to have this amendment passed because with this new legally binding document (signed by the father) mothers and the children of the union would be able to obtain dependency orders in countries like the UK.

The very first couple of posts were spot on - there are no such thing as a "marriage visas" there are simply multiple entry Non-immigrant '0' Visas (valid for a year) which are available on two conditions 1) marriage certificate 2) proof that you are the father of Thai children PLUS proof that you have a bank account and that for at least the last 6 months has had a minimum of ThB 400,000. These Visa's are only available inside Thailand and require you and the wife and sometimes the children to attend the Immigration Department - there are also requirements for you (if asked) to provide photos of the family standing outside the residence (wide angle), a head shot of the family where the house number is clearly visible. Now I have heard from friends that going in with their wife to a Thai Embassy in the UK, Germany and Sweden with their wife has enabled them to get a Non Immigrant 'O' based on marriage - in these 3 cases the wife was a full resident in the country of application.
Now I have discovered to my own discomfort that if you are entering Thailand (as I do regularly)and plan to change your Non-immigrant 'O' Visa into one based on marriage (or dependent children) valid for a year - YOU HAVE TO HAVE A VALID MULTIPLE ENTRY VISA BECAUSE entering with a single entry visa and Immigration stamps it USED - basically cancelling it. So that answers one OPs comment that you don't need a multiple entry Visa - YOU DO - the Hull office was right - and my advice from the Embassy in Abuja, Nigeria WAS WRONG.

EDIT:

This post is incorrect - mario2008

A sad but inevitable end to a mystery which may never be fully resolved - especially considering where it finally hit the water. I feel so very sorry for the relatives (the majority being Chinese) who hold such store on being able to visit a grave side or funeral urn to mourn the loss of their loved ones.

I so totally agree with an earlier post - I hope the Malaysian authorities are going to specifically apologize to the families of the Pilot and Co-pilot for the way these folk had their reputations so badly slighted by the reckless spate of reporting on this planes' disappearance.

Oh - I must sign out ASAP - I can see this is going to degenerate into another of those very boring blind Red supporters versus the Reactionary Old Guard slanging matches - Go for it guys. Good Night

In Southern Africa - where we have some choice racist words that are flung around and listed in some country's legal ordinances and by-laws of racial terms that are officially outlawed and whose use is punishable by a fine - we are used to the word "slope" - but there it refers to a white Afrikaner - or a "boer". This term of endearment comes from the fact that white Anglo-Saxons born and brought up there think the Afrikaner to be a person of reduced intelligence and bit of a genetic throw back to someone like an early caveman - the big bumbly guy with the long hairy arms (knuckles dragging on the floor) and the sloping forehead (hence the connection).

So one mans VC in SE Asia is, I suppose, another mans favourite rugby player in Africa.

Don't know about heart attacks - but lighting strikes in the vicinity can cause a considerable shock wave - certainly enough to scare a baby duck to death (without direct electrical discharge). In Kenya I've seen whole areas where the milk in hundreds of isolated small farm dairies went sour after a late afternoon electrical storm with very heavy thunder and lighting - when I asked a Dairy Specialist he told me it was the "impact" of the thunder on cows with full udders. Couldn't get my head around that one but the milk collection point in the area recorded high lactic acid scores in all the milk samples collected from rejected milk. The rejection rate had jumped from the normal 5 to 8% to over 75% the following morning.

I'm assured that all I need for my Non-Immigrant O Visa extension is a valid visa for at least a month (well 10 working days if I take them at their word) - so only a single entry was required. If I had to travel suddenly I could get a re-entry permit at the airport and could then arrive back here before my visa expires - I've done that before on a single entry visa when I had to travel unexpectedly to Indonesia for a business meeting.

All of this is a bit strange because I can get a Visa at the airport valid for 30 days but this doesn't work for the extension.

This causes some concern at some Thai Embassies who find it strange that I'm applying for a Visa that I don't need - when I explain my situation to the Visa officer - they shrug they shoulders and smile knowingly - one once said to me "we have some complicated rules" - I nodded in agreement.

In some parts of the world where nationals all need Visas to enter Thailand the Embassies issue One month, and Three month - single and multiple entry Visas - with very different fee rates. (in Doha you can also get a 6 month entry visa both tourist / medical and Non-Immigrant O but there are no 6 month Visas (of either type) available for example in Nigeria or Ghana (nor the Philippines - but I think that was because I was in the country on a 3 month business visa).

Also as I stated I'm not married to my partner - entering because I'm the father of two Thai children.

Must agree with previous posts you only get a Non-Immigrant O Visa if you are married to a Thai citizen and have a marriage certificate or you are the registered father of a child born to a Thai (your name has to be on the birth certificate).

I have over the years had to apply for Non-Immigrant O visas in various parts of the world (I travel a lot as an international consultant) and because I'm not actually not formally married to my partner been asked to produce the full set of supporting documents - like a translation of my passport so that my name (translated) corresponds to the name on my sons Thai birth certificate and a set of photos showing me, my partner and my son standing outside our house + a close up of the family standing by our front gate with the house number clearly visible (this house number must correspond to the intended place you will be staying at in Thailand).

Never heard of a OA Visa so can't comment.

Guys - I can tell you getting a Thai Visa can be a bit taxing to say the least - partly because different offices of Immigration seem to apply slightly different rules and (more troublesome) some offices (and the officers there in) seem to interpret the (variable) set of rules in different ways. Here is my story which might help the person posting in this case (and others in a similar situation).

I have a Thai partner and two children (aged 6 and 2) living here - I've been here since 2006. However, I work as an International Consultant and travel a lot both regionally in SE Asia and am often on multiple month contracts in Africa - where I generally travel back to Bangkok every couple of months and am regularly at home for a month or two. Now as I can enter the country without a Visa it is often no problem, I arrive get one month entry on a tourist visa - and then leave - getting an extension if I need one or simple paying an over-stay fine at the airport on my departure - if I needed to stay a few more days. Never had to do a Visa run in

The problems always arise if I have to get a Visa for another country while I'm in Thailand. Some Embassies insist that they can only issue a Visa to someone actually resident - having a valid Non-immigrant O visa always helps getting around this. So I have on a number of occasions over the last 8 years got Non-Immigrant Visas in many countries like the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam, Kenya, South Africa, New Zealand and the UK (hence why I'm am a tame authority about the different application requirements at different Thai Embassies - and the big variation in Visa prices).

I'm currently on a 3 year contract in West Africa and because I'm often found arguing with Check-in clerks that I really don't need a visa to enter Thailand - it became easier to always have a multiple Non-immigrant O visa in my passport - travel is stressful in itself without having to argue with some ill-informed person who doesn't want to believe the print out from the Thai Government Site of Nationalities of passports able to get a Visa on entry.

Recently because the most convenient stop-over on my journey back is Doha, Qatar I've been getting a 3 or 6 month multiple Visa there while I stop over to see friends and family (the most expensive place to get a Visa because rightly the Thai's assume everyone living there is super rich).

Now to avoid this on-going hassle and because I was assured that it was real easy to do I went to my Immigration Office at SamutPrakan (I live in a cluster complex beyond Swampy. I popped in to find out if I could convert the existing 6 month multiple entry non-immigrant O Visa into a renewable year long version - with proof of the appropriate amount of Thb in a local account for 6 months. NO PROBLEM I'M TOLD but because I had made a comment about how expensive the Visa had been - the very nice officer said - Sir why waste this Visa it runs for another 3 months come back before it expires and we can issue you with a new visa valid from that date. So on my next trip back to Bangkok - and just before I left I popped in to get my new one year long non-immigrant O visa - new guys behind the desks - Oh we can't issue the extension Visa because this current visa only has 8 days before it expires and the regulation requires that the application must be at least 10 working days before the expiry date.

So back to the drawing board - so on my next visit to West Africa I found myself in Abuja - the Federal Capital of Nigeria for a few days - so used the opportunity to get a one-month single entry Non-immigrant O visa at the Embassy there -(I have a Short-term Nigeria resident Visa as part of my job) - found new regulations I needed a certificate from the Nigerian Drug Enforcement Agency to prove I hadn't been convicted of a drug offense in the recent past (managed to talk my way round that one) - the cost was again high - based on the fact that the staff there may believe that Nigerians come here for "business" and can obviously afford a premium price.

I'm back now in Bangkok and have a non-Immigrant Visa that lasts for one month - AN ABSOLUTE PREREQUITE - I UNDERSTAND to get a new long term Non-Immigrant O Visa. I've been told over the years that it is IMPOSSIBLE to convert a tourist visa into a Non-immigrant Visa while in Thailand. I have never been offered a potential to get this done in country by paying "something extra". So take it to be TRUE - no Non-Immigrant O Visa NO CONVERSION to annual extension Non-Immigrant O Visa. Hope that observation helps others.

I'll post my success or "Return to GO - Do not collect a visa" failure once the saga is over.

The ruling was that you can't use force against peaceful demonstrators. But when they chuck hand grenades and clearly (from the whole BBC video) fire at the Police - they are obviously not peaceful and NO Court ruling is going to stop the police from returning fire. Come on guys its obvious - the definition of peaceful is the key element in the ruling.

reading all of this fuc_king bull shit just confirms my resolve to go start a new society that is not a police state deep in the jungle!!!

You have obviously not run a restaurant in the States - police expecting a big slice of apple pie with their free coffee. OR a facility in UK - with nit picking health inspectors swabbing the drain plug for germs.

Must be honest I find the Thai police very reasonable and they deliver a service (like watching your property when you are away) for an extremely reasonable price Thb500 = US$16.66 - a lot less than a ticket to the police association Ball . We (our housing complex) as a community have established an excellent relationship with the local police station and get a great and very efficient service - stopping a gang of youth on bikes racing around, investigating suspicious people cruising the neighbourhood and I'm sure a rapid response to any call made when something really goes wrong. Don't know about you but something I'd like to see in any "new society" I go and set up.

My partner is an Executive Chef who I meet in Kenya where she was setting up a very up-market Thai restaurant in the capital. Now we have kids she has "retired" from her profession (she had worked in 17 different countries setting up facilities in hotels as well as restaurants) BUT has over the last 6 years back home set up a number small restaurants in and around Bangkok. My advice - it is bloody tough way to make money - competition is fierce and the price of street food is down in the region of margins as thin as a film of oil on water.

The biggest problems - staff - train them and they leave and it doesn't matter how trusting they are when they start - any profit rapidly disappears out the back door. Very few Thais want to work in the trade so you are having to deal with Cambodians and Burmese (he says with a shudder). The only problem bigger are the relatives - who one is initially tempted to trust - they know I'm an expat (even though I'm totally banned from ever appearing at the facility) and believe my wife to be a successful self made businesswoman (which she is) and therefore honour bound to help out on ever single crisis in their side of the family from school fees to unexpected illness. The daily take shrinks, they blame the waitress and finally you discover it's them - now you have a real family problem - accusing an aunt of "theft". If you have had trouble with the ill laws in the past I can promise - you ain't seen nothing until you insist that your partner finally fire your MiL's sister and tell her she's not to ever come by the restaurant again.

I could go on and on but - the only way it has been marginally profitable was because my partner is a total hospitality professional and knows how to maintain stock - buying meat, prawns etc in BULK and spending hours preparing and freezing meal sized portions. It takes real skill to adjust your buying of vegetables to market and meal preference trends - if not you end up throwing away mountains of stuff.

The problems you can encounter from authorities would take more space than there is to post - but I promise you if you are there it will get worse and secondly if your wife is not bloody bright and experienced at handling life in the small business sector of Thailand - FORGET IT. Life with the SME parasites of Thailand - police, local licensing authorities, health officials, sanitation inspectors, etc etc - is particular difficult and at times harrowing..

Some posts have hinted at it - but no-one has come out and said it. There are big national differences in attitude to responding to greeting from strangers. I bet your teachers are Brits - the average Aussie / Kiwi or Southern African would have said Hi long ago. On a recent trip to UK I visited with friends and like my normal self greeted folk as I walked down the street (in a smallish village) to do a bit of mid-morning shopping at the mini-Tesco - I even said hello to the neighbours. Got lots of frosty responses especially from the neighbour a mid 30s something guy. When I asked my hosts in the evening, after they got back from work, why their neighbour was so stuck up - they told me they had been living next to each other for 5 years plus and had never been greeted or bothered to try and greet them. The new generation of folk are all on Facebook and Twitter in an endless stream of chatting to "friends" and people who "like" them - maybe they feel that they have no need what so ever to be in contact with those in close physical proximity to them. Maybe its because they grew up at the time when everyone was petrified of paedophiles and kids were told "Never talk to strangers".

I remember being in the suburbs of a big US city about 5 years back and was constantly greeted while out walking around the lovely leafy roads - even got to stop and chat to some folk walking their dogs - they were very friendly until I inadvertently mention that I thought Obama was good President.

So there is not much hope for our poor poster out in Ringit if you are surrounded by snobby Brits. I've had some great chats with folk I've meet in the gym (I go to a very big one in a new shopping complex near our housing complex) and thinking about it most are Yanks or Southern Hemisphere folk including an Argentinian and in most cases they greeted me first and I responded. As some posters have noted It's sometimes consider strange to greet people and try and start a conversation - the changing room is one such place if you are a guy - save the chat for when you bump into each other grabbing for the English language newspaper in the rest area.

My god guys and gals - what are you all going to do when Taksin finally returns and takes up the reins of power again? pack up and leave? Because it's going to happen - ever one of his elected Governments lead by him or his proxies have improved the conditions of the poorest rural areas in Thailand and made life better for the majority at the bottom of the pyramid - who happen to be the vast majority of voters in this country. Some of you have gone on about the corruption in the rice pledging scheme but the truth most small farmers have actually already benefitted from it - it is the bigger commercial farmers waiting for their payments. Please remember the last Democratic Party Government wasn't a result of an election - it was a result of folk crossing the floor and some fairly questionable legal rulings banning certain people from Parliament - in fact it is years since the Opposite actually have won an election. And to weaken their chances further what in the hell did they do for the common man when they were in power. Sweet nothing - they, including Suthep, had their chances and blew it.

So bumps along the way, but clearly the next election (split into two parts) will be won by the Taksin supporters and eventually he will be pardoned and be back here and will win another election and the power of the old guard will be eroded further.

Then all this vitriol most of you have for this guy and his family is going to be directed at a ruling dynasty elected democratically by the majority people of Thailand - not the elites in Bangkok. And certainly a dynasty who might find continual irrational insults on ThaiVisa a bit offensive.