Goodison

@NoshowJones You might find the link below an interesting read. https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/new-british-law-to-crack-down-on-overseas-benefit-fraud-starts-in-2025-479979

@oxo1947 Nothing official out there. I think it was signed earlier but only came into force on 1989. Philippines has so many Expat workers and a thing for getting protection for them. There was not many in the UK then and not many Brit Expat pensioners in the Philippines which always seems to get more of a USA Vet destination. It was at the time when there was calls in the Philippines to close the USA navy bases which happened in 1992 and I tend to think it was part of trying to keep the Philippines sweet and on the side of the West. One thing I think we can be sure of is they never did it out of the kindness of their hearts. After decades of trying to get the UK to include indexed pensions for Brits in Australia in their reciprocal social security agreement Australia had enough and and scrapped the social security agreement. 45% of frozen pensioners live in Australia, 30% in Canada and 9% in NZ. So their Citizens have a right to be pissed off as their taxes are paying for social services that make up for some of the shortfall. They all said they won’t sign a CANZUK deal unless the UK index the pensions and with 84% living in their Countries that would end frozen pensions but this government is not interested in a CANZUK deal and want closer ties with the EU.

@Keith5588 OK to finish on this I put a link below that shows the standard room rates for hospitals in Phuket. Vachira is a government hospital and is 2,000 THB, Mission Hospital is a Private Non Profit Hospital and is 3,300 THB. Bangkok Hospital is a Private Profit Hospital and between 4,960 and 6,200 THB. https://www.easylivinginsurance.com/how-much-hospital-room-cost-in-phuket/

@Keith5588 Here is the 2nd Vid on the SMC.

@Keith5588 As I said Vachira Government Hospital in Phuket was the first to open a Foreigner/VIP office that was the model for the others that followed and now they got this special medical clinic so maybe they are leading the way again and this will come to other places. I put a couple of Bids showing this SMC below.

@Keith5588 Just to show you don’t always have to go to Bangkok and it pays to shop around. The Bid below shows a clinic on Udon Thani we’re they do the cataract operation and replace your eye lenses that fix your eye sight. The guy was asked the cost in the comments and said the whole thing start to finish was 150,144 THB.

@Keith5588 I get 3 months supply at a time from the government hospital which is a fraction of the cost of a private hospital and even cheaper than the high street pharmacy. If you scroll down in the link to Fig.5 you will see that Private Hospitals get 35% of their revenue from medication sales and at the prices they charge I am not surprised. Some years ago I went to Wattana hospital and was charged 22,000 THB for 3 months supply. The next time I went to the government hospital and was charged less than 5,000 THB and in the high street pharmacy it was about 6,500 THB. https://www.krungsri.com/en/research/industry/industry-outlook/services/private-hospitals/io/io-private-hospitals

@Keith5588 I can’t find any for the over 70’s but for those that are younger personal accident insurance is very cheap. I also watched a Vid this week by a guy who had a bit of an accident on his scooter and ended up paying a hospital bill and was clueless that you could claim this back from the government compulsory Por Ror Bor insurance. I put a link below that explains what Por Ror Bor for a scooter covers and how to make claim which is not hard. https://www.expatden.com/thailand/por-ror-bor-thailand/

@Keith5588 This is a thread where somebody says Udon Thani Cancer Hospital was excellent, cheap and easy to get an appointment. Sheryl who I think is the resident medical expert on here says Private hospitals are 4 to 5 times the cost of government. I think maybe that bus right for the more expensive ones like Bangkok Hospitals but fit standard Private hospitals I like Wattana I would say it’s about 3 times. You can break hospital types in Thailand into 4 types. 1) Private Profit such as Bangkok Hospital. 2) Private Non Profit such as Bangkok Christian Hospital and Mission Hospitals in Bangkok and Phuket. 3) Public Non Government Hospital such as King Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital in Bangkok which is affiliated to the MOPH (Ministry Of Public Health) but is a Red Cross Hospital run by a Non Profit Trust. 4) MOPH (Government) Hospitals).

There are a lot of threads on here that mention Queen Siriket Heart Center at Khon Kaen government hospital and here is one.

@Keith5588 This a thread from a few few years ago that says the Foreigner Office at Hua Hin government hospital is on the 5th floor of the Purple building but in another thread on a different forum the said 6th floor. Anyway 5th or 6th you should find it easy.

@Keith5588 As I got to copy the links I will give you them one by one. Here is the Vidvthat shows the Foreigner/VIP office in Udon Thani.

@Keith5588 I watched Les Vid again he says his sub contacted the DWP and was told he would only get his pension unfrozen for he duration of the visit. Les then contacted the DWP and was told no He is right and the pension will be reset. The sub then contacted the DWP and was told the same as Les but they refused to give this in writing and the Sub is now in the Philippines. From other links on here including Mike Lister in a link who actually went back the UK passed a habitual resident test and got that in writing from the DWP that also informed him there is no set time period and it is about satisfying the DWP assessor that he had settled back in the UK with the intent to keep it as his main resident home.I found another article from the Daily Telegraph and put the link below, saying much the same that you must have settled back in the UK to reset your state pension otherwise it will revert back to the previous frozen rate. It’s beyond me why you have to do this in the UK and only have to spend 185 days in a reciprocal Country with no intent of settling there or need to pass a habitual resident test. So we got some people at the DWP say you only get your pension unfrozen for the duration of the visit and others saying it resets your pension and nobody there who wil give any if this in writing. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/will-moving-back-to-the-uk-for-a-few-years-unfreeze-my-state-pension/ar-BB1qO60G?apiversion=v2&noservercache=1&domshim=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1&batchservertelemetry=1&noservertelemetry=1

@Keith5588 As you mentioned the NHS I am going to go off topic as you might not know the following. Vachira Government Hospital in Phuket was the first to open a Foreigner/VIP Office and was the model for the ones that followed in Chiang Mai, Hua Hin, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen. I use the one in Udon and the service is 810 THB. For that you wait in an a/c waiting room. They have PR ladies who speak English to assist you. They fast track you to see a Dr though you still got some wait. I spoke to the PR girls and they showed me a long list that is most of the Thai Health Insurance Companies that they can bill direct and of course as a rules of thumb government hospitals are a 1/3rd the cost if a standard private hospital. Also note Khon Kaen Houses Queen Siriket Heart Center which only gets great reports on here (I put a link to one thread below). Udon Thani also has the Government Cancer Hospital (I put a ASEANNOW thread where it gets a great report). I was there last week checking out for a friend who is thinking of coming up to get his prostrate cancer treated. It is more like a private hospital than government one. Some of the reception girls speak English. The told me the cost is the same for foreigners as Thais. It has a new 6 story radiotherapy center. 2 of my wife’s friends work at one of the private hospitals and told me if any patients need RT they take them the government hospital and they also collect and cancer medicine from there. To get an idea on prices I asked about RT. Tye told me they have different machines and 4 types of RT and depends on what type and where the cancer is to which one you need. Anyway the costs did 30 sessions for the 4 types are 120,000, 160,000, 200,000, 240,000. I also put a link below if a Vid that shows the Foreign Customer/VIP office at Udon government hospital.

@Keith5588 People do get caught and the link below tells about bloke who lives in Pattaya. At a minimum they want the over pay money back. Fines are between £350 & £5,000. They can stop or reduce your benefit up to 3 years and could criminally prosecute you. HMRC & DWP are joined at the hip and share info and if your caught HMRC are going to take a good look at you. We are living in an ever digital world and the UK & Thailand are both CRS Countries and if you want to know what info they share look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA. https://www.iexpats.com/cheating-expats-try-fiddle-pension-claims/

@Keith5588 Language is important and there is a difference between unfreezing and resetting. According to the Telegraph you only keep the unfrozen rate for the whole year if your pension is paid to a bank in the Philippines and you spend at least 183 days there but Les has doubled down and adamant that 185 days in a UK tax year and your pension is reset. All he has to support this is what he was told during a phone call with the DWP international pensions and what the guy in the Philippines is telling him. I watched Les Vid again and he says one subs grabbed the bull by the horns and contacted the DWP and flashed up the email saying pause and read and the guy said he asked the DWP international pensions about the 185 days and they told he would only get the unfrozen rate for the duration of the visit which according to the Telegraph would be true unless he was getting his pension paid into a Bank in the Philippines. If Les is right I would have thought somewhere online you find somebody who has done it but nothing is there and the only guys who have unfrozen their pensions are those who went back to the UK and obtained Habitual Resident status which was confirmed by a letter from the DWP.

@Keith5588 From what we know you can back the UK establish habitual residence and then leave the UK for a frozen Country and your pension will be reset and frozen at the rate you leave the UK. Nowhere can I find where it says this can be done in a unfrozen Country outside the UK only that if you spend 183 days or more a year there and have your pension paid there you get the current rate of the time for the whole year regardless where you spend the other 182 days. I do know somebody who lived in as Spain where their pension was indexed and then frozen at the rate it was when they left Spain to come to Thailand but their pension had never been frozen. So I am starting to think is returning to the UK and establishing habitual residency the only way you can reset the pension. What we need is somebody who actually went the Philippines with a frozen pension for 185 days or more and came back to Thailand to tell us their story.

@Keith5588 I read that Telegraph article before. Let’s break it down. 1) It says that if you spend 183 days in an unfrozen Country then for the rest of the time you can spend it in a frozen Country and still get the current rate for the whole year and any yearly increases BUT YOU MUST HAVE YOUR PENSION PAID TO THE UNFROZEN COUNTRY. 2) Where it asks what if I return to the UK and then leave again it gives the example of returning to the UK in 2024 and leaving 6 later in 2030 and says you will keep the 2030 rate but after 6 years how could the DWP say you have not been a Habitual Resident of the UK. In the comments there are links that say returning British Citizen Expats have to apply for Habitual Resident status and that the decision will be sent to them by letter from the DWP but if they fail they can reapply when they think the meet the criteria. Also Mike Lister who showed the contents of his letter from the DWP were the DWP clearly stated there is no set period of time to establish habitual residence and it is about convincing the DWP assessment that you have settled back in the UK with the intent to stay and that you need to be classed as a habitual resident to reset your state pension so it doesn’t go back down and the same is said in other links. So with reference to the above is anybody confident that going to the Philippines for 185 days then returning to Thailand with no intention of returning to the Philippines that the DWP will freeze their pension at the current rate it was when they returned to Thailand. As I read they would say you was in the Philippines for over 183 days so you get the current rate for the rest of year then it goes back to the rate it was before you went the Philippines. Did Les actually ask it as once I done 185 days in the Philippines I will return to Thailand for good and will my pension be reset at the current rate and not go back down or did he ask along the lines of if I spend 185 days in the Philippines then return to Thailand will I keep the current rate. They are 2 very different questions.

@Keith5588 I found the link below and the last para on the says anybody who takes the habitual resident test will receive a letter explaining the reason for the pass or fail decision and this is from the houses of parliament and the answer is given by the DWP. So if we accept that to unfreeze your pension you need to obtain habitual resident status then you will get this in writing. Les however insists there is this 185 day rule that nobody can find anywhere and says nothing about getting anything in writing. https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2022-04-14/154212

@BritManToo We had the Commmon Travel Area with Ireland since 1922. For goods I think you will find no checks is only for NI which has been left with one foot in the EU.

@Keith5588@Keith5588 1) The guy who said he went the Philippines in June and will return December saying the he kept in touch with the DWP and who have told him he will keep the rate has had a few questions asked him under that comment and not answered any. That is not to say he won’t but I don’t see how he will unless he had the DWP recognize he was Habitually resident in the Philippines. Also the guy said he was told not got it in writing. 2) Les keeps mentioning the 185 day rule and you can’t find any reference to this supposed Rule anywhere. There is plenty for the 183 days or more in the UK in an April to April tax year makes you tax resident in the UK but in the Philippines it is 180 days in a Calendar year as their tax year is a Calendar year. There is also plenty you can find for claiming benefits and getting access to the NHS at no charge at point of use and that it is all dependent on wether you are a habitual resident or not and that there is no set time for losing or gaining habitual resident status and it is all down ti the DWP assessment. 3) The link below tells you all you need to know about unfreezing your pension when visiting the UK or a unfrozen Country. This tells you have to change your status from a visitor to something else to keep that new rate when you leave. I say that something else is Habitual Resident and for that there is no 185 day rule or any set time period. Add to this Mike Lister who has done it and posted the letter contents he got from the DWP clearly stating it was about being a Habitual Restaurant dent and not numbers of days in Country. https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-10786301/Can-state-pension-unfrozen-visit-UK.html

1) The UK will have a digital border next year and know every time we leave and enter the Country. 2) Thailand is now a CRS Country and if you want to know what info they and HMRC will be sharing look up Common Reporting Standard WIKIPEDIA. Also note HMRC & DWP share info. 3) Tax residence in the UK is 183 days or more in a Tax year. For Habitual Residence there is no set time. The link below is about housing benefits but says what Habitual Residence is. It also says you can lose it in 1 day and the example given is if you move to another Country intending to stay there a long time. It also states there is no set time for obtaining Habitual Residency and that you have to pass a Habitual Residence Test that has no list of criteria other convincing the person doing the assessment that you are settled in the UK and now an Habitual Resident. Surely if you move to the Philippines you will have to pass Habitual Residence test for there for your state pension to be reset. The YTer though with no source he can quote other than what somebody at DWP told him on the phone is saying it is the 185 day Rule when no Rule exists and he is giving out misinformation. That is not to say that the DWP don’t have a guide line of 185 days but to reset the state pension is about achieving Habitual Resident status and I would want that on writing. https://www.housing-rights.info/habitual-residence-test.php

@Keith5588 Where the YTer is wrong is he is telling people to reset their system reset permanently it is all about number of days in Country and that is wrong it is about getting the DWP to accept you are habitually resident. I already put the link to a thread on here where Mike Lister who went the IK and reset his pension put 2 comments and says he had to get his MP involved for the DWP to accept he was habitual resident in the UK and he got this after 4 months and the DWP letter explained it is based on them being satisfied you have settled back in the UK and made your habitual home not the number of days you are in Country. To add on to this I have put the link below for British Citizens Habitual Resident Test from the GOV UK site where the response to a question is from the DWP and who make it clear habitual resident is about them being satisfied the UK is your habitual home not the number of days you are in Country. You can make the Philippines your habitual gone but the DWP have to accept this for your pension to be permanently reset and just going there and spending 185 days there will get you the current rate for the duration of your visit but it will go back to the old frozen rate when you returned to Thailand unless you get the DWP to accept that the Philippines is now your habitual home. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7f9c70ed915d74e33f77c9/foi-3160-14.pdf

@Keith5588 I know which YTer your talking about. IMO if your going to go the Philippines for 6 months to reset your state pension you need more than what somebody at DWP told you on the phone. Mike Lister said he had to get his MP involved to put pressure on the DWP to acknowledge he was habitually resident in the UK and it would be easier in the UK as you have an MP and need to be habitually resident to also get back your no charge at point of use access to the NHS.

For those who say just tell them you are in the UK or Philippines there is a current crack down on benefit fraud and they recruited addition fraud investigators. They are getting additional powers so they can check UK bank accounts, turn up at the address you say you live unannounced and talk to neighbors etc. Thailand is now a CRS Country and share your Banking and financial transactions with HMRC and visa versa and HMRC and DWP are joined at the hip. They already check passports when sent for renewal but next year the UK will have digital border which will do nothing to control illegal immigration but they will know every time we leave or enter the Country. The world is getting ever more digital and ever more difficult to hide in.