turgid

Does the offense of manslaughter exist in the Thai legal system?

Murder is about intent

Manslaughter is not caring about the consequences which seems a better fit here.

More people die from apathy than intent but it's important to separate them out.   Intent tends to be individual, apathy is societal.

My prediction - Yes vote today -  pound will rise. Business likes certainty.  UK Shares based on international currencies (miners, oil - most of the FT 100) will fall. Stuff like BT with revenues in UKP  might  rise.

No vote - more chaos and uncertainty.

Guy on Sky News just pointed out that its impossible and irrelevant  to vote against or exclude no deal. The very definition of No Deal is no deal .

EU have said deal or no deal  has to be in place by 24th May otherwise the 2019  EU elections will throw a spanner in the works as any deal would have to be ratified by the new representatives.  Interesting times.  

Just had  a day of sulking on this myself because i wanted to buy a deep well pump and they wanted me to buy a Hitachi but while its fresh a couple of points that might help people new to wells or Thailand/Laos wells . This is Laos but i suspect rural Thailand is the same.

For definition purposes: 

A Thai/Laos water well is a deep hole drilled in the ground with a sealed PVC pipe inserted.

The bottom of the inserted PVC pipe is the depth of the Well.

If the PVC pipe is properly sealed water can only enter at the bottom of the Well.  Water will fill the Well to the upper water level. 

The water is only as good as the lowest sealed point in the well. So if the top is open and your dog has good aim - guess what.

1: A big shiny yellow Hitachi pump in the garden delivers more status to the neighbours than a deep well pump with a boring blue pipe coming out. Remember this over all other things

2: There is major  confusion about the different depths quoted by everyone with an opinion.   Here are some questions with our answers.

A:  How deep is the  water

For the hole we just drilled they hit water at 7 metres.

B: How deep is clean water

Local village consensus in Southern Laos  is now that holes should be 40 Metres deep (see 2C).

United Nations advice is that water source should be at least 30M away from pollutants sewage etc.

In our case several toilet soak aways, pigs, dogs and  chickens  are in or near the garden so I'd said as deep as possible but we're at  40M.

C : How deep can you drill

This is the big one. My guess is at some point in the past someone bought a job lot of drilling rigs and sold them in South East Asia . So there are lots of guys running around with a drilling machine on a broken truck that will drill up to 40M very cheaply.

That's a skinny drill which wont allow many brands of deep well pump. 

I asked 4 drillers in  Southern Laos. Drilling 40M was between 3,000 and 6,000 Baht. Bloke up the road drilled 40M for 3,000 Baht.

But in Laos at least If you want to go over 40M then you have to get a specialist in. That is 60,000-80,000 Baht for 40M - 100M.  The only person doing this they knew of was the ice guy.   Personally I thought that was a good reference.

D :At what depths will your pump technology work

i) Basic straight top sucking pump 8 metres . That's either physics or god depending on your belief system. First proved by James Watt who blew up a lot of steam engines trying to pump water out of deep coal mines.

ii) Parallel jet 30 Metres. Still not really sure how they work but as mentioned above they seem to pump water down to get water up. If you look in the garden of rural houses or hotels and you  see a blue pipe with two pipes in it they are using PJ up to a maximum of 30 Metres .

iii) Deep well pumps - up to 150M depending on brand and power consumption. You put it near the bottom of the well and they just pump up.

E: How much reserve do you want in the well.

In our case the water is coming from 40 Metres deep and if left alone today will  rise to 7 Metres below ground level in the well.

So if you shove a pipe down the well and pump.

At 40 metres you will be pumping sediment and submerged  cigarette ends dropped down the pipe by the workers. 

At 8 metres you will only have a metre of water  above in the pipe. It  will quickly  pump dry ingesting floating cigarette ends as it goes.

It seems prudent to be a few metres above the bottom to avoid sediment but as low as your pump technology will allow to give the maximum reserve.

In our case with a parallel jet pump we will pump from 28 metres which will give about 21 metres of water reserve in the pipe on a good day .   

Most people in the local area seem to be doing 30 M wells with 20-25M locally branded parallel jet pumps. I asked the driller about deep well pumps  (via a translator) and he said people wont buy the expensive ones. The cheap Chinese ones fail really quickly so contractors don't want to use them because they get called back to dig them out.  Plus pragmatically throwing an electric wire down a well seems like a bad idea to people who regularly get shocked by crappy electric wires .  Plus see point 1. 

This is only the well part. Above ground tank, shower pump etc yet to be done.

The pump is being installed in Laos so Laos customs is the issue not Thai customs.

I was hoping in this era of Asean Thai Watsadu might be able to ship across the Mekong into Laos but they laughed when i asked about it. Also had no idea what a jet pump is

The reservoir mentioned is the height of the water above the pump in the well "pipe". One of the videos makes reference to the fact that pumping capacity can temporaily exceed the inflow into the well and you have no real way to know  that without running a year round test well.  Putting the pump several metres below the water line prevents the pump running dry.

For a surface pump 8 metres is the absolute maximum at Sea Level as i understand it. 7 metres allows a bit for raising the pump above ground level and wear.

16% will do what they are told, 68% need to see everyone else do it before they will, 16% need real pain to understand.  This is why Singapore is always harsh on the first offenders after they change the law.

Park your vehicle in that field .

Go get a license / crash helmet.

Come back when you have one.   

I know of people who are paying more in "fines" each year than the cost of fixing the problem once. There is a network of people calling each other to let them know where the police checkpoints are in the morning. They need a nudge to change behaviour. 

People are basically lazy. Conformance needs to be easier than non conformance.

Thanks for all the responses.  I didn't understand deep well jet pumps before .

This video may be useful to others understanding the technology.

So I have gleaned.

-  Shallow well jet pumps - if the water level never drops below     7 metres

-  Deep well jet pump       - if the water level never drops below   40 Metres

-  Submersibles up to 100 Metres

12 Litres of water reservoir per metre of pipe below the water level . 

We'll probably go submersible if i can get one  past customs, translation, consensus decision making, the local driller. 

This video also good although based on US measures and expertise.

Helping a friend with a house renovation in Laos and one of the things that needs to be replaced is the water well and pump.

As I understand it currently they drill a hole 40 Metres deeps and then put a 40M,  6CM dia UPVC pipe in the hole which fills from the bottom and makes a skinny well.  Surface pumps can't suck more than 10 metres vertically  in ideal conditions.  So put a smaller bore UPVC in the well, seal the top and surface pump the water out into a tank either at ground level or on a tower.    Then either gravity feed or pump the water into the house.  So you are consuming 40 Metre "quality" water pumped from 5 metres assuming the pipe isn't cracked and there is no contamination from the top.   

A lot of this stuff seems to be done because they've always done it that way.  Are there best practices ?   I assume the conditions are similar in Issan. Anyone have any experience tips guidance on this. Is 40M enough ?  I've seen some UN guidelines that says a water should be a minimum 30 metres away from contaminants so that may be the reason for 40M given the animal and human waste on the surface.    Is there any advantage to using a submersible pump at the bottom instead of a surface pump? They solve the suck problem and I've seen them in Thai Watsadu but haven't seen anyone using them.  

Just came back from a 4 day trip in Laos. I'd agreed with my Condo owner she'd do the reporting as it is the owners responsibility and they were told they could do it easily on line. As I crossed the border on Sunday  I sent her copies of the passport stamps and TM6.  She could not make the online system work so took time off work and went to immigration Tuesday  and did it there. But they told her I had to also go to get the "receipt of notification" stamped and signed with a new date. No part of the process has this as a requirement but yes I had to do it. So I queued for two hours today and we repeated what she did yesterday. Officially we were late even though we worked hard not to be. 

I'll have to go again next week after another trip.  It's clear that everyone involved thinks this is insane.  The Samut Prakan office has been redesigned to deal with a bunch of non fee earning paper work. There were 300 people notifying addresses  according to the ticket numbers today.  The person I travelled with lives 200 metres away in Bangkok. No notification required. My lease is up in January I may just move 200 metres. 

They have my address on a TM6, Visa extension, multiple reentry permit, condo lease , owner notification, bank account, car registration, insurance, phone registration, 2 x driving license.  Cant trust any of those so lets add another stamp on a form.

The pragmatic answer to the problem they are trying to solve is to get everyone to do 90 day reporting regardless of travel in and out. Verify your address every 90 days and within  7 days  when you permanently change accommodation.  Do a few random checks to keep people honest. Fine and ban those who abuse the system.  

After a discussion with my condo owner following my Visa extension last week she had no idea what a TM30 was. (4 years same condo).   We both went to Samut Prakan today to do a formal TM30 and for her to understand the rules. There were a lot of Thai people doing the same - most of them were getting fined 2,000 Baht. Some people were clearly registering hostel type places with multiple pages of people and getting fined more.    She didn't get fined.

Some of this is translated hearsay some was told directly. It is a bit different from what I was told last week and it doesn't agree with the process I was given but here it is. I'm the alien.

The TM30 is mandatory in Samut Prakan. Owner will be fined if alien goes in for a 90 day report or a Visa, extension or renewal without a registered address  against  passport number / TM6 in the system. 

For long term condo rentals an initial TM30 must be registered by the owner.

Subsequent overseas trips by the alien can be reported online by the registered owner, OR a Thai passport holder if they are registered on the rental agreement OR the alien can  attend the Samut Prakan office after their trip.    Either way reporting must be within 24 hours. 

New rental agreements at the same address don't have to be reported with a new TM30 if the same people are on the agreement.  

They will be doing spot checks with owners. They wrote the owner phone numbers on the TM30 receipt in my passport.

Owner was also told that after a period of  time  alien Visas will be cancelled for those without a registered address attached to their Passport/ TM6 in the system. No idea on timeframe or implementation or whether this was just to scare me. If it's true your owner could be fined for failing to do a TM30, but you could be asked to leave the country.          

My owner has agreed to do my reporting  online so we're going to trial an internal and external trip in December and see how it works.

There are differing opinions about an internal trip in Thailand. If the Alien checks into a Thai hotel for a weekend away and therefore changes address on the computer without leaving the country does the alien  have to check back into their condo?  Seems obvious right ? The first answer was no problem. On the way out a Thai agent said yes problem. Apparently the computer record may not show the dates.  My assumption is they will look at the date closest to the TM6 date and say OK. Be aware of this if they claim your last reported check-in  date and TM6 don't match and they try and fine you. 

My owner did ask why now. The following may be speculation .

They've had a number of high profile blacklisted aliens turn up in unregistered dwellings. Also many "worker" dwellings don't bother registering anyone.  By fining owners they'll make it less attractive to ignore it which most owners have been doing. 

Basically enforcement of what they were always supposed to be doing.  

Primer - tiny budget time travel movie I enjoyed - plot not action.

Thief - Stars James Caan and is an early Michael Mann movie. Not sure if its cult but i've never met anyone else who has seen it and its good.

The drum bearings have gone on my 4 year old Panasonic washing machine. Its sits on the balcony so heat hasnt helped.  YouTube suggests its a serviceable item. Panasonic Thailand dont sell them as a separate kit you have to buy the whole drum at 6,000 Bht. Kits are available on the internet but its going to incur duty and be heavy and expensive to ship. Anyone know a place in Bangkok? 

Suplementary question in case I can't fix it.  Whats the best brand of washing machine to buy in Thailand for durability, parts, service and support?  It isn't Panasonic

Thanks  - within reason they do have money although i'd prefer to avoid the hospitals with piano players in the lobby.

If you can suggest  a doctor /  hospital would be useful.

Family friends 10 year old boy in Vientiane has developed what appears to be epilepsy over the last 5 months .  He is currently taking medication which doesn't appear to help. 

She is looking for a formal diagnosis   and i would assume a strategy for long term treatment.

Anyone have experience with Epilepsy and can recommend either in Bangkok or North East competent sympathetic resources?      

I suspect she will need support groups as much as doctors advice if such things exist here. 

I did Retirement visa extension  , re-entry permit and 90 day reporting today at Samut Prakan.

I have done 90 day reporting before but my last 90 days is based off a trip to the UK in August. I've rented  in the same condo in Samut Prakan for 4 years.

On applying for the visa extension they asked why my owner had not reported my address in August. I said probably because I don't talk to her much - I sign a one year rental agreement and I don't tell her when i travel i.  

Initially it was a bit aggressive, why wasn't i doing what everyone else did etc.    There was much discussion and several phone calls.  Then  they asked to talk to my owner which was a fairly lengthy discussion. I don't know what was said. After the discussion they gave me my visa extension  and said that it was all ok.  I didn't have to pay anything for the address reporting. I asked for clarification but they basically told me to clear off. 

I got the re-entry permit without issue. 

When i reported the 90 days they told I had no address in the computer - why not? I said i didn't know. I report every year on Visa extension, and either every time I come into Thailand or every 90 days. 

Plus the visa extension guys just told me it was all OK.     

There was again a lot of discussion and phone calls. 

I showed the rental agreement and Internet and a bank bill bill which they used to update the record.  

She gave me a piece of paper which looks like an SQL search  from a database record and said i must keep it in my passport and present every 90 days or when i return from overseas. 

The record shows my name, passport number, visa type, dates, TM6 ID,  and presumably a lookup for my address.   

So now i have to keep TM6 or receipt of notification, and database record in my passport, 

I said if i fly out and back to Singapore six times next month do i have to come to Samut Prakan and report my address  six times. She said yes.

Can i do it at the airport? No. 

Does the owner have to come ? No. Only if you change address .

I asked for and they gave me a copy of the rules in English. However it doesn't say this in English. As far as i read it it says the owner must notify within 24 hours of alien moving in and  being given permission for stay in Kingdom.  

I would argue that my permission is the start of the 12 month Visa extension or even the original Visa and every time i move after.  Most sensibly it would be the term of the rental agreement.  

I assume Samut Prakan are reading it as address reporting must be done somewhere within 24 hours of issuing every  TM6.

What it does do is force me to go into the Samut Prakan office at least once every 90 days which may be the purpose.

Before If i travelled a lot I used to have to get my address certified by the UK embassy for a 90 day report or car licence because they didn't hold a recent police report.

 I assume that Embassy certification letter will never be required again so perhaps the next announcement from the Embassies is they will no longer certify addresses as well as  incomes. 

I usually see the problem of staying on topic, expressing pragmatism over emotion and personalising the problem. Respond pragmatically to the point and ignore the emotion is usually the best way to go but that actually winds up people looking for a fight. 

Allow people a bad day, give up after the second attack.   But most forum post go down a rabbit hole of attack or emotion eventually.  

Remember that 16% of the population despise who you are an what you represent regardless.  If you arent seeing or hearing anything that offends you you are probably in a bubble. 

And to quote Michael Caine in Batman some people just want to see the world to burn.

There are a fair number of street dogs where i live and walk and i've noticed over the years that the troublesome ones disappear. There was food stall  lady who used to give me a stick everytime to walk down the local footpath and after a while I didnt need it any more.   I remember a few years ago seeing a few dogs with muzzles on and a lot of dogs "sleeping" next to BangNa trad. My assumption is that there is a cull  every year or so and they warn the local owners to keep their dogs safe and the unpleasant ones get removed. .   I assume also that the local dogs have evolved to get used to my look or smell. They used to chase me a lot now they dont at all.   

13 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Which, thankfully is just your personal opinion. Most of the Thais in my village are not only surviving but feeling just fine on something around 10,000b a month. We run 2 m'bikes an old car, 2 houses and 4 people on 20,000b a month, have healthy and complete lives, work hard at growing some of our own fruit and veg and are the envy of many around us. I was always quite happy to come here and live the same way as the people around me, otherwise I would have stayed at 'home' in Britain. If foreigners getting into western countries had to show they earned 4 times as much as the locals that would be the end of all immigration. My wife, her family have all benefited from the involvement of a this farang in their lives and the Thai govt should at least realise that fact.

UK reqs for spouse Visa. Its not 4X but i'd argue that a rural village income in Thailand shouldnt be the baseline for immigration.  

You must have met each other and be legally married

You must intend to live together permanently.

You must have enough money to support yourselves (and any dependents) without claiming public funds.

Your sponsoring partner must earn more than £18,600 per year or have enough savings to be able to sponsor you (£46000 Savings no kids). The minimum financial requirement is higher if they are also sponsoring dependant children.

You must have suitable accommodation for you, your spouse and any dependants.

You must satisfy the English language requirements.

The sponsor (i.e. the British citizen or settled person) must show that they can support their partner by earning a pre-tax annual salary of £18,600.

For the first child, the additional gross income must be £3,800. It is £2,400 for any additional child. Put another way, the Home Office guidance says that the minimum income requirement is:

Partner with no children – £18,600  (or 2.5x savings)

1 child in addition to the partner – £22,400 (or 2.5x savings)

2 children in addition to the partner – £24,800 (or 2.5x savings)

3 children in addition to the partner – £27,200  (or 2.5x savings)

So to get a partner into the UK with no kids they will have to pass an English test  and you'll have to have min 2M Baht on deposit .  

I'd make a couple of points on this. I lived in Singapore for 20 years and when i moved there they were just starting to clamp down. It used to be you could take a bus to Malaysia on a Saturday afternoon and get a new stamp for 30 days forever, then 3 times then not at all. I had good income and low tax no welfare.     Now I cant afford to live there and retire, so I live in Thailand.  This is what happens as countries develop. Why would you want to bring in people with limited resources when you already have plenty of your own.  Thailand will expand its middle class and tax base. As income levels rise those middle  class will complain about paying tax to support foreigners who clog up  services and  dont contribute  - just like Singapore,  UK and USA and every other country in the world. 

I have never used the British embassy income certification because almost every service the embassy provides cost more than the annual Visa application.

I brought in a million baht  5 years ago. I have a  Kbank account here  and i use that for all my local expenses so no currency fees on ATM withdrawals. Once a year 3 months prior to my visa renewal I top it up to the million again.  Yes it was a one time hit to put the money in but after that it's the same impact.    The banks here are fine and safe and you get nominal interest like everywhere else,  SMS notifications on every transaction and you can pay almost everything online. I pay 100 Baht for the annual letter.  Maybe if  one of the  banks were smart they would offer an "expat" account that pays interest on 800,000 and send a reminder 100 days before and  gives a free once a year letter. 

I have also found with government services in Thailand unlike the UK if you have a problem and you are polite they will try their hardest to help you solve it.

A couple of times there have been gaps in procedure  and they have made a phone call or asked me to sign something and it gets solved.   No i have never paid a bribe.  

This problem has created gaps and they will get solved. The smart way to go for me is self certification of income statement with mandatory visa cancellation if you cheat or lie. Or maybe they will require everyone to put 800K on deposit.     

But dont be surprised  if the requirements to live here change. If you have a one year visa extension - thats what it is. A one year contract to live here.    

They can change anything they want. They won't kill the golden goose  but they will tweak it.   There are plenty of emerging middle class Chinese and Arabs to fill the gaps,

Policy will gradually shift to favour those with money and  resources and skills and encourage those without to stay away. 

If you want an extra 5 years of the old system got to Vietnam, Laos or Cambodia but they will catch up  

Anyone know the Property Auction office and or process for Samut Prakan and Bangok?  (Building is right on the border). 

We've just had a conversation with an agent who was offering a condo  at a very low price but it turns out that he is advertising the Auction reserve price for a Bank sale. He will bid for us at Auction for 10% of the final price. While that's misleading advertising and very entrepreneurial of him we'd like to try and attend and bid on our own.

Ive been looking. We visited a condo complex in Chon Buri to view a unit but as always with condo viewing the guard, cleaner, mate of the agents cousin  knew of another in the building and we ended up looking at 8 in the same building with 4 more we could have looked at if we were willing to come back.  So no lack of supply.  All but one was furnished.  only one of them was lived in. 

Based on the car park and people walking around i doubt the building is more than 50% occupied with people  living there - probably a lot less. You could shoot a post apocalypse  movie there.  I thought it might be a Bangkok weekend retreat so  went back at the weekend and there were no more cars in the car park, no  kids in the 3 pools and only a couple of people outside.  Yet there appeared to be no desire to sell either. Its all  priced per square metre regardless of floor, outlook, or condition or furnishing.   All the units were  low or middle floors (nothing above 13 in a 18 floor building) . Some had great sea views some were blocked.   They all had the same price for the same condo design.  Condition or furnishing didnt seem to make an difference. I made an offer which was rejected with no counter proposal.   People can obviously do whatever they want but the ususal laws of supply and demand as i understand them have never seemed to function in the Thai condo market.  The penthouse and corner units are never for sale and everything else is empty.   I asked the agent and he shrugged and said they just hold and hope until the price comes back. Or the bank seizes it.  

Maybe its the face thing.   Rent on. 

Sheryl Thanks as always for the comprehensive response.     I'll try asking my Endo to refer me to the Neurologist.  However to quote an old Irish joke If i'm trying to get where i want to go I really wish i wasn't starting from here.

I've  seen 3 different endos.   Basically had low energy for years to the point where all my available energy went into work and in the end  I quit working. The  doctors i'd seen had either suggested anti depressants or legal speed neither of which I wanted to take.    A complete stranger i was talking to on a  plane suggested I should have my T checked. I did it privately because I assumed everyone would think i was a steroid abuser. The result came back under 120 which is very low for a supposedly a healthy male. . So I took that result to  a doctor at Bumrungrad. After the obligatory re-testing he agreed it was crazy low and he said I should take T and put me on Nebido.  Which helped.     After a year I switched Dr. because i felt he wasn't doing a great job in talking cause and effect,   he just wanted to add (everyone your age takes it) blood pressure and statins medication to the bill. So i switched to BCH which was cheaper and friendlier.   The second Endo said the first Endo  should have done some diagnostic testing but there's no point now because the results will be messed up because you are taking T.    I took for a couple more years but then this year wondered if it was working and gave up for six months (it was - i felt like crap after 3 months).  I was visiting a friend in a different hospital. While I was waiting they tried to sell me a health check-up. I  said what would be involved with diagnosing low T here. And they said we can do a blood test and  MRI now if you want but you'll have to chat to an endo first. 2 hours later all done.   The doctor who reviewed the MRI said you have a cyst and Low T  probably caused by the cyst -  keep keep taking the T.

As you indicate I've also been told that on autopsy 20% of adults have cysts and most were "symptom free". But prior to asking for it I have never been offered a hormone test in any medical or visit to a doctor.

When I've asked for the correlation between detected pituitary cysts and measured adult hormone levels nobody can actually provide it. So while the majority are considered "symptom free" maybe they just sucked it up and got on with it.   - I did for along time.

And finally being flippant perhaps,  but why were they having Autopsies or MRIs if they were symptom free?

I live on the eastern border of Bangkok in the Srinakarin Rd area. They have recently been stopping people a lot  for driving licenses, crash helmets and also started clamping cars in no waiting zones. But if you carry  a license, wear a helmet and don't park in the no waiting zone no problem.   Having made my other half take her test and buy a helmet before funding a motorcycle (nobody does it why should I !) and getting her through a business   inspection by actually complying to the rules of the annual inspection instead of paying the increasingly variable  monthly "fee" for not having a certificate she now understands  that the world is changing and the old days are gone.