thailandfaq

sometimes when i am looking at the immigration situation here i feel as if the Thai Immigration bureau are making a war on us.

Really strange how Thailand's national income is dependent on tourism, but that they are constantly trying to deliberately make things more and more difficult for us.

Another thing which i feel is not good is the fact that we have all got so used to this fact of being harassed visa-wise that we dont even consider the idea of doing something to counter the situation. This proves we have no ability to pull together and help each other.

Ther was once an attempt to make an association for foreign people but i dont know what happened.

I think that we should have an association which has a fund for a lawyer to take the immigration act up and point out all the holes and injustices. In the West, foreigners have help groups and legal assistance groups who fight to change and inmprove immigration rules. Why don't we have this?

Petitions and letters to the Ministry of tourism and immigration bureaus would be a start, raising issues such as why one consulate makes its own rules and another not? (i.e.Penang). Why does Thailand force us to leave and pay 1000+ baht to Cambodia or Laos and come back into Thailand for free? Thailand gets no money from that! Why dont they just take 2000 baht for an extension inside Thailand, this way, Thailand keeps the money instead of giving it away to Cambodia or Laos.

There are a lot of other silly discrepancies too; such as why although you can apply for permanent residence after three years consecutive stay, you cannot because one year visas (almost all) make you leave the kingdom after 90 days, and thus makes it impossible to register (over 90 days in kingdom) and start counting the three years officially!

Make a law to allow residence permit, but then only make visas which dont allow the initiation of the three year count.

We need an active group to help us and fight for our rights legally and democratically. A good lawyer with a decent backup fund to take the issue up wold be fantastic for the future of Foreigners in the Kingdom of Thailand.

After obtaiining a Non immigrant O visa from the Thai Consulate in Hull, U.K., i told my Mum who is now retired and living in Chonburi to apply to Hull for a Visa. She refuses and is staunchly maintaining that she is going to send her Passport to Athens instead. The thing that makes me a bit nervous about this is the fact that i have searched on Thaivisa.Com and find no info at all as to Athens issuing Non Immigrant visas without all the necessary paperwork.

Please does anyone else have any info on the Athens Thai Consulate, and if they are issuing non immigrant visas in the same way as Hull?

Thank you in advance for any info anyone might have.

love Vientiane for those double and triple TRs

Penang is a grumpy old consulate

does anyone know please if Kota Baru issues double tourist visas?

I've heard other couples make a deal that the native English speaker will be the one to speak English to the child, and the native speaker of Thai speaks only in Thai. That seems to be a good deal because the child gains two languages as a native speaker.

I speak thai english and spanish to my kid - i dont bother speaking german to him though.

Not sure if its going to work though as hes still only 5 months old.. My wife speaks chinese and english with him.

The ordination ceremony is actually in the Pali language, not Thai.

I have the script for the ordination ceremony for Samenera (novice) and Bhikkhu (monk) in romanised Pali with English Translation. It is in word format and is about 18 pages long. If you email me I can send you a copy.

The version I have is that used by Mahanikaya temples.

Bankei

Bankei,

I would greatly appreciate your copy of the script for the ordination ceremony. I am ordaining in April and really want to get the script comfortably memorized.

As soon as you can send it the better. I truly appreciate it.

One question, which version of the script is it? Esaham or Ukasa?

Thanks,

Mike

If you are ordaining as Tammayut lineage it will be Esahang (god knows why they use an M it is pronounced NG)

If you are ordaining into Mahanikay lineage it will be Ukasa

You should really work on memorizing this because it is not easy even with the koo suad to help you.

Only problem is the english phonetics for Pali use a spelling which is opposite to Thai pronunciation

eg

Bhante is pronounced Pandte (pan - dtey) in Thai (the soft B becomes a sharp P)

the M used in Esaham, Aham, etc is not an M is its an NG as far as pronunciation in Thai goes - so Esaham would be pronounced Esahang

Just to confuse you more - all Ds are pronounced as a sharp T and all Ts are pronounced as a D or Dh as far as Thai pronunciation goes

I love Gaeng Som Pae Sa Pla Chon (snake head fish in sour curry soup).. but dont seem to see many other farang into it or know of it.

Any others into this recipe? I love the Pak Grached vegetable too (water Mimosa). This is always what i eat if going to a Suan Aharn (garden restaurant) - the pot simmers and you can add more vegetables as you eat along the way. The crispy white meat on the snake head fish is so juicy .This isnt an easy dish to make at home so best when eaten in restaurant - or at least remember to buy one of these fish shaped hotpots to take home with you so you can make it in authentic style.

Thanks to Horus for permissions to use pics from his Thaifood blog on recipe-thai.blogspot.com

Which country are you in?

Thanks for those replies.

I am from Malaysia. Not sure if holy basil is available.

What about stock ? is it required ?

In malaysia you can buy holy basil from the Hindu people.. find a store that sells incence and stuff and ask them for Tholasi leaf..

In Tamil its called Tholasi and they use it for offering to their Deities - as i was in Singapore and deprived of thaifood i used to go buy the holy basil (tholasi) from the indian shop which sold banana leaf, incense etc. In Malaysia there are many Tamil shops so should not be a problem.

you can put them in earlier too but they will go dark green and be more bitter.. if you put them in last then they will be light in color and sweeter.

I like it with blacksoy sauce if its pork mince but if its crispy pork then i dont use the black soy sauce.. its a matter of taste.

Someshops dont use black soy and some do.. but if its porkmince and i get served with no black soy sauce in it i dont like it.. it looks too light colored and plain somehow

As i was drivng through Klong Yang district near the boat ferry to koh lanta island, i noticed a small sign in Thai saying "samnak songk pha maha chanok", and i followed the road to find the place.

I found a small sangha office with a sala badibat tam (ศาลาปฏิบัติ์ธรรม) in construction .

The place has over 40 rai of jungle there, and the abbotis intending to buildkutis 9huts) for foreigners to come and practise Vipassana Kammathana in true forest tradition, sleeping and meditating in the jungle.

I am in the process of making a website for him, and shall be publishing fotos of the place (including some strange pics i took whilst in the forest with Luang Phor), so people can see where the place is and how it looks.

If anyone wishes to help with volunteer work or funds to develop the centre, please pm me for details.

The place could be a really great place for foreigners to come and experience some real tudong practice. Tudong means Tudankha which was a 13 rule practice used by ascetics in the Buddha's time. nce we have the place ready for visitors we hope to make some courses where people can come and learn applied vipassana, and sleep in a forest hut deep in the jungle where you can meditate in solitude and stillness. The jungle is thick jungle and we will be needing to clear the rougher plants out and leave the larger trees, so that the huts will have nice meditation areas around them. In principle,Luang Phor thinks to have Dhamma and meditation lessons and the rest be for practising in the forest in solitude. This place could be a really good place for foreigners to come and get a taste of forest dwelling dhamma practise in the tudong tradition. The land is big enough, and the abbot Luang Phor The is very friendly and conducive to suggestions on how to develop the place. he is up to any suggestions too, so it would be nice to get some more farang volunteers to come and help with ideas on how to construct.

Any people around krabi province who wish to get involved with trying to make this place get on its feet would be most welcome.

googlemaps its about here

http://maps.google.co.th/?ie=UTF8&ll=7...mp;t=h&z=16

Both of my main teachers are considered to be Arahants... and thus have attained to Nirvana..

http://www.jarun.org/80/index.html

http://www.supawangreen.in.th/

I have read LP Jarans stuff and theres some pretty supersticious non arahant like stuff in it. Like one about a fellow who was a gambler and managed to enter a space portal into hel_l and walk around on tour of hel_l whilst still in his living body. Some of the books are full of superstitious stuff and little real insight teachings.. more folk tales than teachings to open the eyes with.

The website is wonderful though with a good explanation of Vipassana Kammathana and what it is.

LP Jaran is big as Vipassana teacher but also big as magic Saiyasart monk and amulet maker. LP Jaran is famous for his makalee porn baby corpse which is said to be an authentic tree spirit from the Indian secret Himapant forest.

Vipassana masters dont make amulets and don't recommend getting attached, involved or interested in dirachana wicha

An arahant would have no interest in making makalee porn, amulets, saiyasart etc. Vipassana masters do not incline to saiyasart.. LP jaran differs in this. Why would an arahant posess a healthy interest and active practice in saiyasart? it doesnt seem to fit.

Common local folk are always rumoring that this person is immortal, can fly, or is an arahant. Even as i was a monk i was asked if i had seen anything in the forest at night (they meant ghosts and Devas)- when i replied that i did see things, but not ghosts outside etc.. but that what i saw which was amazing was the subtle workings of the living conscious being, the khandas, the cycle of paticcasamupada etc. I explained that these are the miraculpus things you see in meditation.. not flashing fancy lights! At this, the person who asked me wandered off mumbling that i must certainly be an arahant. This made mesmile but also see how the real cause for 90 percent of all our legends and beliefs are caused by some bumpkin with less than half an education opening his mouth to 5 other bumpkins and then it snowballs.

I am sure there have been many arahants, but i am also sure that most of them were not on posters and had a website.

I don't really believe that there are any arahants on the planet who are publically and oficially declared so. If there are any real arahants these days then they are in the forest refusing their devotees to make a website and online shop.

Thaifolk love to declare their favourite Luang Por as an Arahant.

But do they really understand what an arahant is?

Most Thai people i Talk to will get dizzy and say im losing them if i even go as far as to try to explain what the five khandas are, and that we experience reality through these filters of consciousness - although most Thais can chant evening prayers for an hour off by heart, it doesnt mean they understand the meaning of what they are saying.

Of many hundreds of thousands of monks, only a few will apply themself to an intense and austere practice.

There are many Noble beings, but not many arahants.

But as to whether Buddha was this or that.. it is unimportant

Because with the dhamma to check and the practices Buddha gave us to practice, we can see for ourselves the truth of the matter, and attain our own enlightenment.We should be less interested in Buddha and what he did, than with his teachings and what we can do with them. The important and useful factor for us is the practice Buddha taught us to enable our selves to enlighten.

It is pointless to look for arahants.. i mean lets say fred bloggs is an arahant.. so what? so he got there already. That wont take us there.

We have to paddle our own boat to get there.

The only reason the existence of arahants is useful to us is in the sense that it is proof that enlightenment is possible.

This serves to inspire us to strive for enlightenment.

I really love and respect so many monks, masters, teachers in Thailand. But i am still to meet an arhant i believe.

We should not take notice of folk rumors and common sayings that someone is an arahant - there is no foundation behind it.

If we can understand and accept the dhamma, understand the three conditions, khandas, four noble truths, then we can perhaps develop enough insight to see that enlightenment is a real thing which can be attained. This is sufficient for us to be able to work for arahantship in the knowledge that it is possible. the only reason it may be interesting to know of the existence of an arahant is so that we know it is possible, and then try for it ourselves. But no arahant will or can save us.. we must save ourselves.

That seems to be a local rule for Penang, but have not seen other reports of that practice being applied elsewhere.

Thank you - i wish more people would comment but i assume that this means that the rumor i heard is unfounded

i have heard that the 2 month tourist visas will not be issued if you had a previous one and extended it for a month.

Does anyone know if this is true???

The info i have is that penang consulate wont give you a new tourist visa if the previous one was extended.

after much practise i have finally got my Pad kaprao off to a tee

this version is the classic, which uses black soy sauce in it and has a darker color to it.

heres how its made according to what i consider to be the original and best tasting style which you will get in the best Aharn Tam Sang street restaurants

one or two onions (large red ones about the size of a tomatoe) sliced - dont slice them with the grain so they make rings.. rather the opposite way - this makes them sweeter when you sautee them

about 7 chilies bashed up and bruised

about 6 or seven large garlic cloves bashed and bruised

(for bashing and bruising without a pestle and mortar just used the bottom of a cup for example.. the effect is the same).

150 grams of pork mince

one teaspoon of msg (yeah - go for it!)

two tablespoons of light soya sauce

one tablespoon of black dark soya sauce

one tablespoon of sugar (i use a bit more)

pour some nampla fish sauce on the pork mince and let is marinate for about ten minutes - you can also put the msg on the mince too or add later

pluck about 20 to 30 leaves off the basil plant

ok.. heat the oil in the wok (grata) or the frying pan, add the garlic and onions/chillies (toast the garlic a little first before adding the onions and chillis)

once you have blanched them for a minute or so then add the basi leaves

once the basil leaves have softened but still have a light color to them, they should begin to smell pungent aqnd make you cough a bit.. here is where you add the pork mince, msg, and sautee it until the mince starts to take on some color.. onces it starts sizzling add the soya sauce and sugar and keep stirring.

when you see the mince is almost ready, add the black soya sauce to darken the color.

add a little oyster sauce (about 2 tablespoons) and simmer for a minute or so.. add a tablespon or so of water and reduce it a little

thats it.

Make a crispy fried egg to accompany it and they you have the classic pad kaprao khai daw - ดกระเพาไขดาว

to make a Thai style crispy fried egg tyou should nuse a wok or if a frying pan, once the oil is smoking hot you must tilt the pan so the oil is deep in the corner of the pan and then when you throw the egg in it will be submerged in the extremely hot oil.. this causes the eg to bubble and thus becomes crispy when fried.

i love pad kapra.. but some places on the street dont put black soya sace in and thats why it sometimes looks dark and sometimes colorless.

I get in a bad mood when i get a white meat color in my pad kaprao so i always tell the cook "sai see iw dam duay""

actually my way of orderiing is "pad kaprao moo sap ped Ped wan wan sai see iw dam duay" (fried chilli and basil pork mince , hot hot sweet sweet, add some black soy sauce too)

here it is in Thai

ผัดกระเพาหมูสับเผ็ดๆหวานๆใส่สอิ๊วดำด้วยครับ

try ordering it like that and see if you like it.

basi leaf is a bit bitter so if you add sweetness to it with sugar then it really gives a special flavour to the dish.. try it out.. tid jai na kap (จะติดใจนะครับ)

Here is a good video of how tomakie it too..

the order in which she adds the ingredietns is different to that explained above but the result is the same..

To be save you need too avoid Thailand in Total. The other day i drunk thai man put a gun to my head, but he was to chikken to use it, after i went to police station and they would not do anything, then i started complaining about the police, then they wanted to arest me. But i just gave them the finger and left and nothing more happent.

Thailand is the wild west, get use to and live with it or get out of Thailand that is the only thing to do.

you sound a nice bloke!

why did he put the gun against your head?

the best thing in Thailand is to avoid confrontations.

I went to grad school with him.

Lots of pre-judgents here. The Mad Dog I knew was a lot of fun, but nothing dangerous. I never thought he'd lose his hair, but he doesn't look too bad.

nice to hear somthing from the horses mouth.

i dont wish to side with anyone as hemight be the scum he is made out to be..but what is certain is that when cops make charges thy normally trump things up to make things sound as horrible as possible.. so to ract with a "lynch 'em!" attitude is also not the way.. this is the typical proletarian mob reaction frenzy which we sheep-like humans are so often subdued with.

read some trumped up story in the news and then go stand outside the prison shouting "hang him!"

The Honourary Consul in Hull is a business and as such will issue Visas to all who ask.

Several years ago when I needed to do my first Extension of Stay based on Marriage they (Hull) insisted I needed a new Non-Imm 'O' Visa before travelling back to Thailand and extending my stay. Knowing no better I paid about 100 GBP for a Visa I did not need.

When I arrived at Don Muang the Immigration Officer was confused as to why I had the Visa from Hull and after consultation with her boss stamped me in on my original Non Imm "O" and told me that I needed to go to Suan Plu the following week to start the extension process.

For those who want a multi-entry Non Imm 'O' Hull is a very user friendly Honourary Consul, however I would double check any advice they give with the Thai Embassy in London.

correct, it is a business. If a person manages to get honorary status as a consul then they get benefits (earnings) - this is a nice number for them. Visa Fees will have comissions for their time, so those who wish increased earnings will be less scrupulous in the way they examine the proof you have to provide of entitlement to the visa.

Sounds like you crossed an immigration officer who was pissed off at the fact that you had found a way to wangle an easy visa, and made things harder for you deliberately.

Many people who are nationalist and do not like foreigners immigrating to their country will be attracted to become immigration officers - this is inevitable that there are a few racists or fascists within the organism. You can find this in every nation - i was punched in the stomach in Amsterdam Central Station by a cop who told me to go back to Germany where i belong (im English but my ticket was to Berlin haha). This is also the reason why some officers are just downright unfriendly and give you a hard time.

Thai immigration has never been know for its friendliness towards foreigners. In Ranong there is a thing where they take your pass port make a stamping motion under the counter with their hands, and give you the pass back - once you arrive in Burma, the Burmese say "you haven't stamped out!" and then you look in your pass and see that indeed they never stamped you out of the country. I have had this happen to me and know three others who were duped in the same manner. When you go back to the immigration for the second time and complain they smile, and say "oh i must have forgotten"

This is a deliberate hassling of people who use the border runs as a way to stay longer in Thailand. This is also the reason they now only let you do 2 (or is it 3?) on month visa on entries per land border. Also why they ask you to show return flight. It is deliberately done to make your life harder.

Which is what we call in Thai

"Nisay Mai Dee"

This is the best description for Thai immigration นิสัยไม่ดี

all i can say is อนุโมทนาครับผม

Many people have said they will only issue visas IF it is postmarked from inside the UK.

Humm... but many people also have reported on this forum that they got non-Imm O from Spain, Italia, France, ...

Do not listen what guys from UK say... they don't know.

I am from France and I got my O from Hull by post last year. Easy and no problem.

This may be good news to people who reside in the EU and have to deal with a less than "user friendly" thai consulate or embassy in their home country.

At least it will confirm that there is no change : Hull is still very friendly

I can personally confirm that Mr.Jaume the Thai Honorary Consul in Barcelona will give you a Non-Immigrant B E or O without having to present any papers at all - you just go to him and tell him what you want and tsome reason or other and he gives you the visa.

However, he is only authorised to issue 3x 3months, not a whole 12 months.

He was ordered to do this by the Thai Embassy in Madrid (who will not give you the one year without presenting all the necessary paperwork)

He also said that he accepts you sending him the passport for renewal by post from Thailand. I am not sure how this is done with no stamp leaving Thailand but he says he does it. Maybe when you get it back you just stamp out on the current visa which is not yet out of date and then walk across border and back in and show them the new page from Barcelona.

Meaning it would be best to just open the page where the old visa is so they see it and stamp out and then show them the new one on re-entry...

Only a matter of time before there will be no where to hide in the world. All the governments will be connected. Of course the honest folks have nothing to fear but it seems we are getting closer and closer to Orwell's 1984 where pervasive government surveillance is the rule. I am happy that some of the scum will be dealt with but fearful of government control over every aspect of our lives.

You truly believe in fairytales. The honest folks have nothing to fear..... Hmmm when did you came out of your egg? Honest folks have lots to fear, only lots of those are very ignorant or simply naif.

I tghink of Ronald Biggs song with the sex pistols;

"No One is Innocent"

I suppose this is their usual expert way of good public relations.

I wonder if they realise the detrimental factors involved in the way they deprecate the Public Image of Thailand's Governmental system through taking such actions?

Perhaps though it can also be considered that they may be afraid of Mr. Thaksin using his great influence to bombard the media with opinionated content which would cause things to sway in his favour?

If this is not the case then it can be assumed that the government is either unaware of the fact that such gags would only serve to decrease their credibility, or that they are ignorant of these factors, or perhaps don't care in the least. Which is like cutting one's nose off to spite one's face.

lthough i am buddhist in action and thought, i never had amulets or dealt with this stuff as anything more then anthropological interest. however, having a thai husband means that i had to learn how HE feels these things should be treated. for instance, in the past, many westerners have kept buddha statues as decorative items, or new age additions to their decor. in our house, the buddha statue is not new age decor. it is a functional piece that is used by husband (and i). the amulets, i had to learn how to deal with... not to leave them in the bathroom, not to drop them on the floor or fling them just anywhere at the end of the day. all the various and sundry amulets weve got from mother in law, et al , are all on high shelves in closet or on the shelf over our bed. as most thai do.

Very nice example of why someone wears an amulet Bina, and of the benefits reaped from it too.

I like how you explain that despite not believing in the magical properties, that they still cause you to hesitate and think before making a Cultural transgression or breaking a tabu. This is the real reason why amulets were created.. Puttanussati (พุทธานสสติ) - a reminder to be mindful.Mindful of one's behaviour, and mindful of one's own heart, as well as (if you believe) a reminder of the Buddha and the Dhamma he taught.

It is very beneficial to be mindful.

I like this post you made.

I think I should clarify this - When I see a Thai guy with a load of amulets strung all over himself - I usually think he's a fruit cake too.

If he's also got a huge bunch of keys hanging on a chain from is pocket and a 78 blade multi-purpose-workman-camper-DIY-special forces survival-boy scout knife on belt, I think to myself 'What kind of a nut job Farang would take that as a role model?!'

Those who seriously practise the Dhamma and do not indulge in overstatement, would comment that the wearing of massive or overly exaggerated numbers of amulet is "pram prua" (พร่ำเพรื่อ) meaning to overdo something or to repeat to the point of ridiculousness.

Although this may be true,we have to see that Thai people are not just Buddhists, rather have a great deal of Animist belief and Brahmin belief system built in. If the wearing of so many amulets makes the wearer feel happy or safe, then what is wrong with that?

reading the cynics on Thai Visa i always see people like to call others dipsticks and douches and god knows what or idiots and such. Personally i find that the people who like to insult are normally the ones with the weakest brains and the ones who never have anything useful or interesting to say at all. Maybe someone with 300 palad khik penis amulets around his waist may look a little silly in the eyes of someone who is not in that circle of collectors, but then that person with the mega amulet belt might see you wearing a cycling spandex pants with a soup bowl plastic helmet on and thin spindly legs and think you look stupid.. this person into cycling would then look at the long haired man with his fisherman pants on and think he looks like a bag of crap, who in turn looks at the 40 year old Japanese man on the Sukhumvit with short trousers, sandals and black ankle socks and thinks the same.. the Japanese man in short trousers and socks, then looks at the fat old balding drunken English man who is posing as a teacher and sitting in the beer bar with two 17 year old girls, and he thinks the guy is an idiot and probably a sex offender.. then Farang in the Thai style clothes speaking thai in the corner then looks ate them all and feels superios and thinks they are all a bunch of idiots and dont know anything about Thailand, the Thai on the street then looks at the Farang who knows Thailand and thinks "this Farang Roo Mak" (know it all) - he's an asshol_e.. etc.. and so it goes on from one cynical view to the next.

There are many reasons why someone might have a big chunky amulet round their neck, some of them being;

They like them and think they look cool

they think that Thais will be impressed when they wear one

It might be a point of entry and contact with the Thai people - maybe strike up a conversation

They might really believe in the amulet.

Someone may have given it to them

might be taking the mickey and being funny

If you can come here and eat fried rice, why don't we all say "who do these Farang think they are? they come and eat the local stuff? dont they know they are westerners? Why are they pretending to be Thai and eating this stuff? (because they like it of course.. which is why people wear chunky amulets too - different strokes for different folks.)

whats the difference between coming and putting on a sarong or an amulet, or eating the local food and wearing something thats thai?

Most of you will buy some clothes here and feel comfy in it but when you go home would never walk on the street in it, because the values are not the same.

Even me

I wear fisherman pants in the country or even pa kama (the cloth) around my waist

can you see me doing that going down to the pub in UK?

Live and let live and realise that we all look stupid in some other person's eyes. Its all a matter of conditioning.

Let them have their fun be it petty or valid.. its their life and their fun.

If you see someone with a certain taste in something and think they look ridiculous, just stop and try to see yourself in the eyes of another person for once, and you might realize that you may look just as ridiculous in some other person's eyes.

How about the Foreign Women's club?

Good luck

CFIT

Now that sounds like "the grannies rotary club" or something.

I prefer the Farang Girls name (not that i am a girl so maybe i dont have the right to air a view)

But it does sound more fun than "Foreign Women's Club" such a name makes me think of people knitting and growing petunias than meeting up for fun times.

Anyway farang is not a racist word it is us who feel sometimes offended when in Thailand we always have to hear ourselves referred to as such. But this is one of the Cultural differences here; namely that a head waiter in a European restaurant would tell the waiters "take this soup and give it to that man, take this spaghetti and give it to that woman" etc - whereas in Thailand it would be

"take the noodles and give it to the Black man, the fried rice to the Farang, the curry and give it to that Japanese, and give this plate to that "him over there" (the thai one) - they might just also say "and give this to the Thai person" too. In Thailand it is common to always refer to a persons race or ethnicity.

There is no deliberate racial hate involved. it is just that Nationality is seen as something very integral to one's identity.

So i find "Farang Women to be an apt term. Seeing as that's what the group is formed of.

For anyone remotley interested in the fate of this old man...he is dead

He wanted to die in the Temple, he was ordered to leave and disrobe 1 month before his demise.

He died on the floor of a slumhouse

Perhaps if there are any Monks reading this they can tell me why this was allowed to happen?

As Camatra said in the previous post it seems to go against the principles of the Bhudda's teachings.

RIP my freind

You cannot force any Bhikkhu to disrobe if he doesnt want to.

No one can do this.

The only way to get someone to disrobe is if there is a very strong reason such as a warrant for a criminal offence which is a case of Abhati Paracika (murder or rape or sleeping with a woman or having sex for example).

If this monk was forced to disrobe, then perhaps there was something which you are not ware of to do with the monk.

Maybe he wasn't all he seemed to be. This is the only explanation i can think of, for if he wished to die in his Kuti as a monk, then no one could have made him disrobe

He offered to give us all his ancient Bhuddist relics, but of course we could not accept them,

Accept the relics my friend.

please dont have a crisis of faith.

If you use this piece of wisdom to help you

We cannot change the practise of others - each person has to develop his own wisdom and learn to behave well on his own

If you are concerned with the good or bad behaviour of other people (including monks) whilst we are still imperfect ourselves 9to greater or lesser extent), then we are not practising properly.

To get caught up in concern or stressful thoughts about how bad or disgusting the behaviour of others is, is to put obstacles in the path of one's own practise.

You will never achieve concentration (samadhi) whilst you are focused on what others are doing (or not doing).

What you can do is do what you are able to do. You can ask others to help also; whether they do or not is up to them. Do not get entangled in concern for things not going the way you expect. Expectation is a cause of disappointment, which is Dhukkha (unsatisfactoriness/suffering).

We cannot alter the course of another person's karma, except by the merits we make and if they are affected by our merits and words.. but in the end it is up to them if they recieve the influence of our words and good example.

If the good Bhikkhu wishes to give you his relics you must take them, and rever them, or even donate them to a fitting person or place. if he wishes you to have them it could be that he does not wish them to fall into the wrong hands.

This Bhikkhu has already gone far in his practise and is not clinging to the causes of samsaric rebirth. let him practise in his humble way.

You can offer him any help or gifts you wish, but you cannot change hi or make him accept luxuries which he is no longer craving for. Having said this, normally a Bhikkhu must accept what is offered unless it is something against the Vinaya.

if any offerings are not needed by him, he will just give them to a needy person.

one good thing you can do is to take a doctor to him and pay the costs, or to buy the necessary medicine for him.

To donate medicine to the sangha is a great blessing.

When you make offerings anywhere you should include him in your dedication of merits.

On the day of offerings to sangha and triple gem, you should try to keep the 5 precepts and dedicate the merits also to other beings - think of this monk when doing so also. (although one should not make special dedications to particular beings rather to all beings both alive and dead, be they humans,devas, animals, yaksas, petas, or even maras).

This Bhikkhu is a great example of humility to us all.

Don't get concerned or lose faith because of the disinterest of the other Bhikkhus in the welfare of this monk.

It wont help anything.

If you do wish to cause an effect however, you can do the following (with great care to be auspicious in the way you do it)

You can talk to the abbot.

You should not accuse or directly ask things like "why dont you do something to help him?"

you should ask in a non accusative way like this;

So reverend sir, is it so that this old monk is ill?

Is it so that he is in a wheelchair and cannot help himself in all ways?

is it true that once the Buddha went to a dwelling place of Bhikkus and saw that there was a crippled monk lying in his own faeces in the bed?

Is it also true that the Buddha then asked the other Bhikkhus there why he was left like that?

is it true that the Bhikkhus replied that this monk was a cripple and of no use to anybody?

Is it then true that they also said that they did not give him medicine because they are Bhikkhus and not doctors, and that it wasnt their business?

is it then true that the Buddha and his dear friend Ananda washed the faeces from the body and bedding of this crippled Bhikkhu, and told the other Bhikkhus that they should take care of each other, because there were no doctors in the temple and that there was no one else to take care if they did not do it themselves for each other??

Let him answer all these questions.

And they all you can say when he answers is "hmm, thank you". the rest should be obvious for them to realise what you are trying to tell them (that they should help their fellow monk).

It will be up to the abbot and the other monks if they are wise and good Bhikkhus they will take action and be shamed.

It may also come to pass that the Bhikkhus are ignorant and show anger and call you cheeky.

if this happens do not feel you have committed an error, or an inauspicious action. If you can do this then you will have made great merit despite the outcome of the interrogation.

This is the way to teach, without accusation, only with questions.

Footnote.. after posting this i noticed that the post is a few years old now (woops) - i choose however to leave my addition here for sake of helping anyone who may have experienced a similar story.