misterjag

I think the Reds played in international media better than the government did.

If the international media could understand Thai, listening to the hate speeches from the sceens, the may got the real picture!

Aren't you using a rather broad definition for hate speech? Unpleasant truths don't constitute hate speech.

Here's Wikipedia's definition:

Hate speech is any speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it may incite violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected individual or group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected individual or group. The law may identify a protected individual or a protected group by race, gender, ethnicity, nationality, religion or sexual orientation.

Based on the poll result so far, it's good to see that most of us agree there's too much Thai government censorship and the Thai media is largely biased toward the government.

I don't agree that the international media are biased toward the Red Shirts. I think they're just painting the picture fairly. Nonetheless, the international media serve the useful purpose of providing a counterweight to Thailand's government-dominated media.

your reading of the poll results is faulty, probably due to your own bias.

the thai media result is split fairly evenly between govt bias and fair reporting - in other words the bias was not particularly heavy, at least according to this poll...

I'm factoring in the conservative, pro-government bias of most of Thai Visa Forum's readership, but it does strike me as rather strange that most Thais agree that their media is too heavily censored, but many government supporters think it's un-biased. How can a heavily censored media be un-biased? Beats me.

This thread was a fascinating read. A benefit of standardization that hasn't been considered is the economic benefit. When a nation can agree on what side of a walkway to walk on, not only is there less frustration but everyone moves faster. That results in more efficient use of time, greater productivity and enhanced economic output.

Another benefit of standardization can be the psychological benefit. It's easier for right-handed people to walk on the right.

A couple years ago the South Korean government decided that everyone would walk on the right. There had been a lot of confusion in South Korea before due to the conflicting historical influences of Japan and the United States. During the Japanese Occupation, everyone was to walk and drive on the left. When U.S. forces entered Korea in 1945, most vehicles were right-hand drive American models so driving on the right was standardized.

Last year the Seoul subway system changed the walking directions in its stations to conform to the government's new walk on the right initiative:

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/natio.../117_51745.html

The Korea Transport Institute says psychological burden will be reduced 13-18 percent when walk right. It also expects the switch to increase walking speed 1.2-1.7 fold, reduce pedestrian collisions 7-24 percent and pedestrian density 19-58 percent.

"It is unreasonable to encourage walk left when cars drive right," said a researcher of the institute. According to the institute, traffic accidents involving pedestrians will be reduced about 20 percent when they walk facing the oncoming vehicular traffic.

Presumably you raise this issue because of the large number of (middle class) Thais protesting (via the social media of Facebook etc. )against the supposed media bias of the Western press (CNN is particulary targetted).

Certainly the Western TV press is vague in explanations and sensationalist in tone. But of course it is. There barely can be a sentient being left on the planet who expects TV news to answer the question 'why'. If you want this answered then you must read.

As for bias, everyone is biased. There is no such thing as neutral since it presupposes a Truth, that if only we looked hard enough we could all agree upon. If you even raise a topic you are displaying a bias by creating the framework for debate.

What is odd about the furore over the Western press bias is the lack of protest about the astonishingly unreasonable Thai press. The Thai press is intentionally biased. I know from insider sources on a certain channel that when a reporter wanted to show a soldier throwing a grenade she was told they must not show it. The Thai press is mostly owned by the Thai government or Thai military. A quick check on Wikipedia can verify this claim.

What this furore is really about is the fundamentally incompatible viewpoints of the Westerner and the Thai. The Westerner finds coups totally repulsive and unforgivable in all circumstances. The Thai is blase about them because they are so used to them. So when a Westerner says Abhisit is illegitimate he is absolutely right from his viewpoint. It does not matter a jot that Abhisit was elected to parliament and has formed a coalition governemnt. All that matters is the method that started the process to get him to power started in 2006 with a coup. That's it. So the foundational position of the Westerner looks biased to the middle-class yellow-leaning masses.

Very true but is it fair to say the foreign media is bias when Thai media is 10x more bias?

Your survey results reveals your own bias - more respondents consider foreign press to be biased.

@Gaccha - "So when a Westerner says Abhisit is illegitimate he is absolutely right from his viewpoint." A westerner should be more educated in the workings of democracy and understand the process which made this govt legitimate. It is exactly this naive view of the coup and it's aftermath that was peddled to the thai masses to produce the redshirt movement...

If the Labour Party in G.B. was banned by a court for election fraud (which wouldn't happen as there's no possible justification for banning an entire political party short of it being a particular threat to democracy), there's no way the remaining M.P.s would be permitted to form a government without a new election. This disenfranchises a big chunk of the electorate. A government formed in this fashion is a perversion of democracy.

Based on the poll result so far, it's good to see that most of us agree there's too much Thai government censorship and the Thai media is largely biased toward the government.

I don't agree that the international media are biased toward the Red Shirts. I think they're just painting the picture fairly. Nonetheless, the international media serve the useful purpose of providing a counterweight to Thailand's government-dominated media.

The government should seriously consider the ramifications of its policies. Squelching dissent with violence and censorship could encourage a violent response.

If the government is smart, it will permit peaceful demonstrations. It will issue a parade permit and strictly regulate every aspect of when, where and for how long the protesters can assemble. It will have well-trained riot police on hand, etc. The government will also allow the Red Shirts to broadcast and limit censorship to hate speech or speech that specifically incites the violent overthrow of the government.

If the government is smart, it will also set a provisional date for an election.

Don't encourage these people to go underground and plot bomb attacks. I don't want them to turn Bankok into Baghdad.

Here is a link from Al Jazeera --

Um...

No where at all does anyone say that there will be more attacks on shopping malls in particular, just that there will be more violence.

One of the Red Shirts interviewed in the video said he thought what happened to Central World could happen in other places. So, he's suggesting the possibility of destroying shopping malls by arson. It sounds pretty far fetched.

I recommend watching the video. It shows the government shutting down a radio station that supported the Red Shirts. In interviews Red Shirt leaders explain that the movement is evolving independently of Thaksin. Because of the army's violent clampdown on Red Shirt public protests and media outlets, the movement is being forced underground. It will now focus on using violent revolutionary methods to achieve its goal of establishing a popular democracy.

Thaksin is to blame for giving poor Thais a taste of political empowerment. Thaksin set the wheels in motion, but now the genie's out of the bottle. There's no turning back. He could drop dead of a heart attack tomorrow and it would have little impact on the strength of the grassroots movement he inspired. Ordinary Thais learned a lesson they'll never forget: the ballot box is a powerful weapon for change.

Abhisit must be very constipated with all the farangs who are up his ass...

Only the government can provide stability and security. No one else can protect property rights. It's hardly surprising that farangs tend to be conservative.

Unfortunately, the long term outlook for future stability and security in the Kingdom isn't encouraging unless significant reforms leading to genuine power sharing are undertaken. Too many of the disenfranchised in this country got a taste of the power of the ballot box during the Thaksin era. We're now witnessing their strength in numbers and grassroots organizing ability. They won't be satisfied with anything less than the ability to elect candidates sympathetic to the needs and wishes of ordinary Thais.

"So it will be no surprise if we hear of more violent riots across the country, especially the north and northeast, because these people do not have faith in the election process, so they turn to violent alternatives."

No "faith"?? How about just a little patience?? ....Elections are coming up soon.

Either these folks are khon jai ron, or they are really worried that they will have difficulty selling their votes next election.

The Red Shirts are copying the behavior of the Yellow Shirts. They introduced mob rule.

It's easier to demonize Thaksin than address the serious divisions in this country that led to the crisis.

I too wondered why more crowd control wasn't used.

This may or may not apply to T-Land's current situation but often governments gain from allowing protests to become enraged unruly mobs.

Indeed, it's been known to happen governments send in infiltrators to begin the violence.

And when a sizeable portion of the police and army actually supports the protests, easy to see how it all goes SNAFU.

Seems nothing has actually been resolved, me thinks this isn't over.

Good point. The Yellow Shirts were handled with kid gloves and never prosecuted because they served the purposes of those who wanted to bring down the government.

Thanks for the uesful information.

It was my pleasure. I hate using taxis!

Bangkok Metro Public Co., LTD Press Release : 21 May 2010 07.30 p.m.

These are very simple minded people. All countries have them- not just Thailand. The uneducated, rural poor will be fed (again) false stories and propaganda and once again will be used by the "Red thugs". (Not being sarcastic here... Maybe the governement should buy them all refrigerators/ AC's or better yet, a small tractor something materialistic they can see... In the long run, it would be cheaper than the millions of dollars lost from their next rebellion or terrorist acts. )

The uneducated, rural poor Red Shirts are copying the same mob rule tactics that the educated, urban affluent Yellow Shirts used. Only difference is, the army stood by and did nothing while the Yellows overthrew an elected government.

Thailand's Emergency Decree doesn't guarantee detainees access to legal council or family members. It isn't even clear where they're being held.

In the letters, a riposte:

SteveInThailand : 21 May 2010 7:48:36am

A few observations about this very slickly crafted piece.......

"the coup that ousted Thaksin was of course completely illegal, but none of the people who carried it out are in the present government"

Correct - but coup-conspirator Gen Anupong heads the army..... and we all know who calls the shots in Thailand.

"the constitution which was approved by a referendum"

After a massive drive by the junta to get a "yes" vote - including troops at every ballot to "guide" the voters - and on the Hobson's Choice basis that a "no" vote would trigger the junta imposing whichever of Thailand's previous 17 constitutions it chose. A shock for the junta that 42% still voted to reject it.

"the parliamentary process by which the Democrat coalition came to power was the same process by which the Lib Dems and Tories have attained power in Britain"

Did the Tories meet at the home of the top British Army general to "fix" the coalition? Was an equivalent of the notoriously ultra-corrupt Newin faction of PPP bribed to defect through a doling out of the most lucrative ministries to skim - plus, reportedly, 40 million baht to each MP? As the author says - "Thai governments have always been corrupt". Thai people largely accept that fact - but, for many of them, such a military-engineered fix of the parliamentary arithmetic that so blithely ignores their popular will expressed at the ballot box is too much.

"The last two governments changed because key figures were shown to have committed election fraud".

All Thai political parties engage in vote-buying and fraud. What matters is the hand-picked Election Commission's decision on which of the disqualification cases will proceed/succeed.

"the army hasn't been shooting..... anyone at all, except in self-defence".

So, for example, the army weren't firing at protesters building tyre barricades 200+ metres down the road from them or at protesters 500+ metres away on the other side of Lumpini park? That's not self-defence - it's crowd control by sniper.

"Thailand hasn't had an unbreachable gulf between rich and poor for at least 20 years".

Perhaps Khun Somtow would like to peruse the Gini figures - and maybe cite incidences of "rags to riches" he can recall. The centuries-old Sakdina patronage system (effectively feudalism) is still entrenched in much of Thai society.

"Abhisit..... shares the values of the west".

Maybe - and has precious little chance of putting them into practice when he's hobbled by the pact made with those who installed him and who will go on pulling the strings behind the scenes as long as it suits them.

Khun Somtow is more candid about some things than is usually the case with those wheeling out the all-too-familiar.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2...56.htm#comments

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

That's odd. Many of the poor Thais I encounter daily working at street cafes and convenience stores in Bangkok tell me they despise the SOB. One old woman who often serves me dinner took her sandal off and beat Abhisit's image as he was speaking on television.

That was because she most likely does not have a clue what is going on around her, Another brainwash victim

Not hardly. The woman's a news junkie and runs her cafe with pride and efficiency.

Every single Thai I know supports this man - I hope in the weeks and months ahead, he shows everyone a path towards peace, reconciliation and unity.

That's odd. Many of the poor Thais I encounter daily working at street cafes and convenience stores in Bangkok tell me they despise the SOB. One old woman who often serves me dinner took her sandal off and beat Abhisit's image as he was speaking on television.

It sounds to me like they bought riot gear. Unfortunately, it takes a lot more than riot gear to deal with a riot. First, you need well-trained, loyal soldiers (or police) stationed in or near the Bangkok area ready to move at a moment's notice. Well, they didn't have that. They had to call in units of special forces from outlying provinces because the local soldiers/police were sympathetic with the Red Shirts and had no stomach for doing the dirty work. By the time the government figured out what was needed and the units were transported and ready, the Red Shirts were well entrenched.

The government ought to assemble a Praetorian Guard of loyal, specially-trained soldiers that are available at a moment's notice to handle groups of violent demonstrators.

Now that this incident has gone viral, it would be an embarrassment to the Thai authorities if they didn't interview him and deport him.

I saw the video. I was involved with legal profession in past. From all the information that is available, this man is in for deep trouble. He could very well be charged for acts of treason, if Thai authorities wish so. The video itself is strong enough evidence as he clearly speaks in definitive terms of 'looting' and 'setting to fire'.

Steroids???? I thought steroids stimulated your physical body and not brain. It takes some sort of hallucinater or mind altering drug to look so happy, confident and careless in behavior.

Bottom line, stupidity is not an excuse in legal battle. Indeed this mas has brought shame to all the foreigners living in Thailand. Besides that, even in your own country, the intent of arson and looting for political differences is not acceptable how in the world he thought of it to be all right here in Thailand. Or maybe he is just a petty criminal himself. Thought of getting some loot and getting a bit of extra cash??

Whatever, I wish he does get prison sentence. Not in Klong Prem though. For some reasons I have seen Klong Prem facilities, they would be walk in the park for this idiot. Send him to 'Thai' prison.

Whatever ... just get him behind some confinement. He should not be let loose in the public.

How could the Thai authorities charge a non-Thai with treason?

Unless he is guilty of criminal acts, let it go.

Personally I have no problem with farangs being politically involved.

I don't think you'll find a nation anywhere on the planet that allows foreign visitors to participate in political activities. It's a visa violation.

How would you feel, for example, if a foreign country was funneling large campaign contributions to a particular candidate in your home country?

If Abhisit wants to extend an olive branch, he can start by pledging again to hold November elections.

When you consider that most of the Bangkok-based Thai news outlets are biased towards the Thai government and their elite supporters, I find it refreshing to get a different perspective from news sources like CNN.

Incidentally, I had the pleasure of chatting with Mr. Rivers between broadcasts during the first few hours of the 2006 Coup and found him to be thoroughly professional, unassuming and cordial.