Can a Thai Who Abandoned his Thai Nationality Regain it?

[ftpjtm]

My step son was born in Thailand. At 4 years old he joined his mother in the US. At 15 years old he was granted US citizenship. He has lived in the US since 4yo, visiting Thailand only for short trips every few years, as a US citizen since he was 15.

 

At one point his grandmother (he was listed on her house book) was interrogated by Thai authorities as to his whereabouts, at the time he was supposed to report/do something regarding the military. Authorities were told that he was in the US, and the grandmother was told that he was supposed to follow some sort of formality which he never did follow. I don't know the details of any of this because I couldn't help if I wanted to, and was happy enough that he was/is a full US citizen with proper US documentation and able to travel to Thailand as a US citizen. 

 

5 years ago my wife and I bought a second home in Thailand and we are now splitting our time between the two countries. The son is 29 and has a successful career in the US with no immediate plans to take up residency in Thailand. But when we bought the house his name along with my wife's were moved from the grandmother's house book to my wife's new house book. We were told that upon his mother's death the house will be passed on to him. 

 

His mother holds both US and Thai passports and has an up to date Thai ID. The son never had a Thai ID as far as I know, if he did I never saw it and there is no copy of it. We do have copies of his Thai birth certificate. 

 

Does anyone know what it would take for the son to revive his Thai Nationality - to get an ID and passport? My wife is afraid to take him to the Ampur because she thinks he may be arrested for not following proper formalities at the time he was supposed to report to the military. Is this a valid concern? 

 

He has visited Thailand 4 or 5 times on his US passport without problem, but his name was changed in the US so it would be difficult if not impossible for Thai authorities to identify him as the kid who didn't register for the military unless he provides them with the link between the two names. 

Edited October 10, 2017 by ftpjtm

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

Does anyone know what it would take for the son to revive his Thai Nationality - to get an ID and passport? My wife is afraid to take him to the Ampur because she thinks he may be arrested for not following proper formalities at the time he was supposed to report to the military. Is this a valid concern? 

 

There should not be a problem at an Amphoe. What he failed to do was to file an exemption at the embassy or one of the 3 official consulates in the US at the age of 21. When he turns 30 there will certainly be no problem.

Since he is registered in a house book he can easily get a ID card and then a passport.

[greenchair]

He can have dual nationality ,which he most likely already has with the us being his second nationality. The country of your birth is always your main nationality. Just because he attained us citizenship does not mean he lost thai nationality. 

Hence he should have done military service. 

[Arkady]

As Ubonjoe says, he can't be drafted when is over 30.  I think he might need some sort of military service exemption paper after that, if he ever wants to work in Thailand, which can be obtained once someone has passed military age while living overseas full time. There may be a small fine for not applying for exemption at a Thai embassy or consulate at age 21.  I am not sure, if this paper will be needed for any other purpose, if he never works in Thailand.

 

Since he is already 29 and doesn't need a Thai ID card urgently, he should wait till he is 30.  Applying for a first ID card at age 30, he may need his mother and/or other family members present to vouch for his Thainess at the district office.  Some people have even been asked for DNA testing but, since he is in a house book and has a Thai birth certificate, this may not be needed.  

 

It should be possible to get a Thai passport at a Thai embassy or consulate without an ID card but with a birth certificate but this seems unnecessary in his case.  You have to apply for a passport in person for them to record the biodata and it is very quick and convenient to apply in Bangkok, once he has an ID card.  You are usually in and out of the building in less than half an hour and the new passport arrives by EMS usually two working days later.  Once he has a Thai passport he should always use it to enter and leave Thailand but, if he has entered on his US passport, he should leave on the US passport to close out the loop in the Immigration database, rather than create a record of overstaying, and enter on the Thai passport the next time.     

[Aditi Sharma]

What is an Amphoe? 

An amphoe (sometimes also amphur, Thai: อำเภอ;  [ʔāmpʰɤ̄ː]) is the second level administrative subdivision of Thailand. Usually translated as "district". Amphoe make up the provinces, and are analogous to counties.

(Wikipedia)

[FritsSikkink]

3 hours ago, Aditi Sharma said:

What is an Amphoe? 

An amphoe (sometimes also amphur, Thai: อำเภอ;  [ʔāmpʰɤ̄ː]) is the second level administrative subdivision of Thailand. Usually translated as "district". Amphoe make up the provinces, and are analogous to counties.

(Wikipedia)

are you asking yourself questions now?

[nasanews]

9 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

His mother holds both US and Thai passports and has an up to date Thai ID. The son never had a Thai ID as far as I know, if he did I never saw it and there is no copy of it. We do have copies of his Thai birth certificate

 

[lungbing]

Amphur might be the same as a US county, but a UK county is the same as a changwat.

[ftpjtm]

Thanks ubonjoe, greenchair and Arkady for the great info!

 

He is actually booked to be in Thailand for a week this winter, at which time he will be 30 years old. So I guess we can give it a try. Another question, all of his birth records are in Nakhon Sawan, and our house is in Chonburi. During his short trip here in the winter we had no plans to visit Nakhon Sawan. Can he apply for an ID at the Chonburi Amphoe were his name is registered on the house book? Or will he need to go to Nakhon Sawan? Or both?

 

And to go off on another tangent, we have 2 other children both born in the US. Both were registered with the Thai Consulate in New York and received Thai Birth Certificates and Passports. Both let their Passports expire as teenagers, because we were told they would have to chose Thai or US nationality at a certain age. Is that correct and can they apply for Thai ID's and be listed on the Chonburi house book? One is now a 24 year old girl, the other a 26 year old boy.

Edited October 10, 2017 by ftpjtm

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

Can he apply for an ID at the Chonburi Amphoe were his name is registered on the house book?

Yes That is where he need to apply for the ID card.

11 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

And to go off on another tangent, we have 2 other children both born in the US. Both were registered with the Thai Consulate in New York and received Thai Birth Certificates and Passports. Both let their Passports expire as teenagers, because we were told they would have to chose Thai or US nationality at a certain age. Is that correct and can they apply for Thai ID's and be listed on the Chonburi house book? One is now a 24 year old girl, the other a 26 year old boy.

You would have to have them registered in the house book in Chonburi. Getting registered in the house book will mean they will then have ThaI ID numbers so they get ID cards and passports here.

There is no requirement for them to choose their nationality. There is a clause in the nationality act that they can choose their nationality at the age of 20 which is the age of maturity when they can choose it for themselves. Prior to that it is their parent's choice.

[ftpjtm]

33 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You would have to have them registered in the house book in Chonburi. Getting registered in the house book will mean they will then have ThaI ID numbers so they get ID cards and passports here.

There is no requirement for them to choose their nationality. There is a clause in the nationality act that they can choose their nationality at the age of 20 which is the age of maturity when they can choose it for themselves. Prior to that it is their parent's choice.

Any idea of the procedure to register the 2 US born children in the Chonburi house book? I assume they would need their Thai birth certificates and expired Thai Passports. Any idea of other documents which would be required? I ask because the documents are currently in the US and would have to be brought to Thailand - could not easily be retrieved if we learn of a missing document during our visit to the Chonburi Amphoe.

 

Would the 26 year old boy have a problem due to non-registration for the Thai military? Would he be better off waiting until he is 30 to do this?

[ftpjtm]

18 hours ago, greenchair said:

He can have dual nationality ,which he most likely already has with the us being his second nationality. The country of your birth is always your main nationality. Just because he attained us citizenship does not mean he lost thai nationality. 

Hence he should have done military service. 

When my wife became a US Citizen 15 years ago she was told by a US official that although the US allows dual citizenship, Thailand does not and she would have to give up her Thai citizenship.

 

When we were first looking into purchase of a house in Thailand a Thai lawyer told us  that officially dual citizenship is not allowed, but it is a rule which is not enforced, so "everyone" acts as a dual citizen even though it is technically illegal.

 

Is any of that true? Was there a change where dual citizenship is now allowed when it was not earlier? Or has dual citizenship always been legal in Thailand and we were given incorrect information 15 and 5 years ago?

Edited October 11, 2017 by ftpjtm

[greenchair]

8 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

When my wife became a US Citizen 15 years ago she was told by a US official that although the US allows dual citizenship, Thailand does not and she would have to give up her Thai citizenship.

 

When we were first looking into purchase of a house in Thailand a Thai lawyer told us  that officially dual citizenship is not allowed, but it is a rule which is not enforced, so "everyone" acts as a dual citizen even though it is technically illegal.

 

Is any of that true? Was there a change where dual citizenship is now allowed when it was not earlier? Or has dual citizenship always been legal in Thailand and we were given incorrect information 15 and 5 years ago?

 

Some posters disagree with me here, so please be well informed that everything said is an opinion and nothing more. 

The Thai law similar to other countries is that if you commit any serious crime or dishonor the country or the country of your birth is at war with thailand, then your citizenship might be revoked and you could be deported. That law would not be possible without dual nationality. 

The myth that you cannot have dual is that, based upon when reaching 20 a child must choose it's nationality and renounce one. 

This is because 1.the above law, in the event of war who would you be loyal to. 2. You cannot do compulsory citizen military service in 2 countries. 3. Most countries have pensions and health benefits, of which you are not entitled to in both countries. So although when reaching 20 the child renounces the Thai citizenship and accepts full citizenship as an American, after doing that,/ if later they came to live in Thailand they could go through the normal process of applying for citizenship based on residendcy. At that time he could be dual just like everyone else. As far as I know 

Lao is one country that really does not allow dual citizenship and they cannot attain citizenship in another country, because if their new country revokes their citizenship, they would become stateless causing all sorts of problems. 

At the end of the day, when push comes to shove in war and crimes your wife will always be thai and you will always be American. 

You actually can never renounce your birth nationality. 

In my opinion. 

[greenchair]

12 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

Thanks ubonjoe, greenchair and Arkady for the great info!

 

He is actually booked to be in Thailand for a week this winter, at which time he will be 30 years old. So I guess we can give it a try. Another question, all of his birth records are in Nakhon Sawan, and our house is in Chonburi. During his short trip here in the winter we had no plans to visit Nakhon Sawan. Can he apply for an ID at the Chonburi Amphoe were his name is registered on the house book? Or will he need to go to Nakhon Sawan? Or both?

 

And to go off on another tangent, we have 2 other children both born in the US. Both were registered with the Thai Consulate in New York and received Thai Birth Certificates and Passports. Both let their Passports expire as teenagers, because we were told they would have to chose Thai or US nationality at a certain age. Is that correct and can they apply for Thai ID's and be listed on the Chonburi house book? One is now a 24 year old girl, the other a 26 year old boy.

So again my opinion. 

They are not the same as your first born as he was born in Thailand. 

Therefore the US is his 2nd nationality, he can at anytime apply for his thai id and thai passport. In the event he committed a serious crime in the us he would be deported to thailand. 

Your other 2 children were born in the US with a Thai mother and thai rights. However, since turning 20 they did not renounce their US citizenship and did not take full thai citizenship,( which would include the duty of military service), they would now be fully fledged American citizens.

If they wanted to apply for the second nationality of thai, they would need to follow normal procedures including living in Thailand for 5 years and applying for residency. In the event of serious crime or war they would be deported back to their country of birth and true citizenship.

In my opinion  

[ubonjoe]

41 minutes ago, ftpjtm said:

Any idea of the procedure to register the 2 US born children in the Chonburi house book? I assume they would need their Thai birth certificates and expired Thai Passports. Any idea of other documents which would be required? I ask because the documents are currently in the US and would have to be brought to Thailand - could not easily be retrieved if we learn of a missing document during our visit to the Chonburi Amphoe.

 

Would the 26 year old boy have a problem due to non-registration for the Thai military? Would he be better off waiting until he is 30 to do this?

It varies from Amphoe to Amphoe as tp what is needed. Their birth certificates would be the minimum requirement. Some Amphoes may also want witnesses to confirm their identity. It would be best to inquire at the Amphoe as to what they require.

Since the boy would never of been in a house book they would not even know he existed. Since he was not known about at the age of 21 it unlikely there will be a problem. It would be wise to file for the non resident exemption after being registered at the embassy when he returns to the states.

[kanook]

28 minutes ago, greenchair said:

So again my opinion...

 

Your other 2 children were born in the US with a Thai mother and thai rights. However, since turning 20 they did not renounce their US citizenship and...

 

If they wanted to apply for the second nationality of thai, they would need to follow normal procedures including living in Thailand for 5 years and applying for residency. 

Your opinion is doesn't matter, children with a Thai parent, who btw already held Thai passports, do not need to do what you suggest.

[greenchair]

34 minutes ago, kanook said:

Your opinion is doesn't matter, children with a Thai parent, who btw already held Thai passports, do not need to do what you suggest.

 

Well they are thai then. And they would be bound to military service. And in the event of war they would be considered thai. 

However, the law does say in order to retain citizenship from dual citizenship, you must have a docimile in thailand for the past 5 years. His children have not held a Thai passport or docimile in thailand for 10 years. So they might not be citizens anymore. 

And anyway my main point is you cannot renounce your birth nationality. 

 

Edited October 11, 2017 by greenchair

[QuantumMech]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

And anyway my main point is you cannot renounce your birth nationality. 

 

That's incorrect though; if your country's laws allow for renouncing your nationality, you can renounce it. Both the Thai and US laws allow for it. There are many US-born people who have renounced their US nationality, and there are many Thai-born people who have renounced their Thai nationality. You can even find the names of the latter published in the Royal Gazette. (Actually, IIRC, you can find the names of US renunciates in the Federal Register)

 

Also, most of your other points are incorrect.

Edited October 11, 2017 by QuantumMech

[OMGImInPattaya]

If it's anything like the U.S., one would have to go throught the immigration and nationalization process like anyone else...starting at the back of the line.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

If it's anything like the U.S., one would have to go throught the immigration and nationalization process like anyone else...starting at the back of the line.

That would true if you renounced your citizenship. Same for a Thai.

The Thais mentioned in this topic are still Thais since they have not renounced their citizenship. 

[greenchair]

6 hours ago, QuantumMech said:

That's incorrect though; if your country's laws allow for renouncing your nationality, you can renounce it. Both the Thai and US laws allow for it. There are many US-born people who have renounced their US nationality, and there are many Thai-born people who have renounced their Thai nationality. You can even find the names of the latter published in the Royal Gazette. (Actually, IIRC, you can find the names of US renunciates in the Federal Register)

 

Also, most of your other points are incorrect.

Well I not wrong. I said if you renounced your citizenship, then lost the citizenship of your new country, you would be stateless. 

Your citizenship of birth can never be taken away, but your citizenship of choice can. The US says it's permanent and quite difficult to get your citizenship back so warns against it because of the danger of becoming a stateless person. 

Your child is protected and even if you choose another citizenship, they can change that at 18. I think it is similar that they must choose one. So in my mind you get 1 permanent citizenship from birth, this can never be revoked by your government, any other citizenship that you may hold can actually be revoked at any time. 

[Arkady]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

Your citizenship of birth can never be taken away, but your citizenship of choice can.

 

Interestingly this is no longer true in the UK.  The law was amended while Theresa May was Home Secretary, at her instigation, to permit the revocation of British nationality from dual nationals or people whom the government has good reason to believe are eligible for another nationality, whether British from birth or not, if it would be in the public interest.  Mrs May ordered the revocation of British nationality from several people, at least one of whom was British from birth and born in the UK.    

[Arkady]

14 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

When my wife became a US Citizen 15 years ago she was told by a US official that although the US allows dual citizenship, Thailand does not and she would have to give up her Thai citizenship.

 

When we were first looking into purchase of a house in Thailand a Thai lawyer told us  that officially dual citizenship is not allowed, but it is a rule which is not enforced, so "everyone" acts as a dual citizen even though it is technically illegal.

 

Is any of that true? Was there a change where dual citizenship is now allowed when it was not earlier? Or has dual citizenship always been legal in Thailand and we were given incorrect information 15 and 5 years ago?

 

Thai law is generally deliberately drafted as vague and ambiguous for various reasons, most of which  are not in the interests of the general population, or at least are not intended to be.  Since it is a European style civil law system, rather than an Anglo-Saxon common law system, precedents are not particularly important in Thai law. That means that leaving the law vague allows for courts to interpret it differently in different cases, even if they are similar.  It also allows those in power to fill in the details through ministerial regulations which can be amended at will without the need for parliamentary scrutiny.

 

The 1965 Nationality Act is a good example of a vague and ambiguous law.  One of  consequences of this is that the law neither explicitly supports nor prohibits dual nationality, although there are parts of the Act that give the impression it is prohibited.  An example of this is Section 22 which appears at first glance to say that someone who has naturalized as an alien shall lose their Thai nationality.  But some wording inserted in the middle of the sentence raises some doubts as to whether they will still lose their Thai nationality, if they don't renounce it themselves.  If we look at the interpretation of this section, we can see by searching in the Royal Gazette, where all renunciations and revocations of Thai nationality have to be announced, that no involuntary revocations of Thai nationality have yet been announced under Section 22, since the current law was promulgated in 1965, although this was commonplace prior to that under similar clauses in earlier nationality acts in which the wording more explicitly mandated revocation for naturalizing as an alien.  Thus with 52 years in force I think we can safely say that naturalizing as an alien, as the OP's wife did, is effectively not grounds for revocation of Thai nationality under the 1965 Act.  To say that it is technically illegal is a misleading oversimplification in my opinion, which is likely to make people feel they are doing something illegal which 52 years of history of the current law says they are not. 

 

The issue of dual nationality for children of Thai and foreign parents is also rather confusing due to the ambiguous wording of Section 14 which appears at first glance to require such children to choose either their Thai or foreign nationality between their 20th and 21st birthdays.  But, if we look at the history of Section 14 we can see why it is ambiguous.  The original version, amended  in 1992, was very specific in giving the minister the authority to revoke the Thai citizenship of these citizens, if they failed to inform the ministry before their 21st birthdays that they renouncing their foreign citizenship in order to retain Thai citizenship.  Three weeks later in 1992, someone's feathers presumably having been ruffled, the law was amended yet again by the deletion some words and some rephrasing to make Section 14 the virtual double talk gibberish it is today.  The truth is that Section 14 now gives the children of Thai and foreign parents to right but not the obligation to renounce their Thai nationality between their 20th and 21st birthdays.  So now it has become a completely redundant section of the Act because Section 15 alows any Thai to renounce their nationality with the permission of the minister.  After it was gutted Section 14 was probably only left there for face reasons or to frighten people into giving up their Thai or foreign nationalities.  Over the years it has succeeded in causing needless worry to thousands of half Thais and their parents.

 

The answer is yes. You were given incorrect information 5 and 15 years ago.           

[NoGoodDeed]

I also have a "regaining Thai citizenship" question.  When my wife became a US citizen back around 1990 she was told that she had to renounce her Thai citizenship, which she did.  She is now wondering if she could regain it, mostly for property ownership and maybe retirement reasons (and, of course, to take advantage of dual pricing ).  Is this a realistic possibility or is that door permanently closed?

 

Thanks.

 

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, NoGoodDeed said:

I also have a "regaining Thai citizenship" question.  When my wife became a US citizen back around 1990 she was told that she had to renounce her Thai citizenship, which she did.  She is now wondering if she could regain it, mostly for property ownership and maybe retirement reasons (and, of course, to take advantage of dual pricing ).  Is this a realistic possibility or is that door permanently closed?

Did she formally file paperwork to renounce her citizenship. Many have thought is was done but it did not really happen.

There is a procedure to have it reinstated. The place to start would be at a Amphoe here or at the Thai in Washington.

[NoGoodDeed]

ubonjoe,

Thanks for your super quick response.

 

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Did she formally file paperwork to renounce her citizenship. Many have thought is was done but it did not really happen.

Excellent question and I'm afraid I don't know the answer to this.  She was naturalized in 1991 and I am *assuming* that the renunciation was done formally, but we don't have any paperwork to support that assumption.  Her then current Thai passport was not cancelled but I don't know if that means anything.

 

 

Quote

There is a procedure to have it reinstated. The place to start would be at a Amphoe here or at the Thai in Washington.

We will be in Thailand in November and will pursue the matter there.  Perhaps there was no formal renunciation after all but if so and if there is an actual procedure that will result in her having dual Thai-US citizenship then it will be something to pursue.

 

Thanks again for your rapid response, it's greatly appreciated.

Edited October 12, 2017 by NoGoodDeed

[greenchair]

10 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Interestingly this is no longer true in the UK.  The law was amended while Theresa May was Home Secretary, at her instigation, to permit the revocation of British nationality from dual nationals or people whom the government has good reason to believe are eligible for another nationality, whether British from birth or not, if it would be in the public interest.  Mrs May ordered the revocation of British nationality from several people, at least one of whom was British from birth and born in the UK.    

That is interesting and no doubt because of all the children born to immigrants. But as you say, this is a new law and I see that it can only be revoked if the person has a right of another nationality. So the one that was British born most likely had dual nationality through foreign parentage. So this law could not apply to  second generation british citizens that did not have a right to another nationality. I also see the new law that if the brit can show they renounced their citizenship as a necessity to gain citizenship in another country for various reasons, they would be entitled to reverse that, which is different from most countries. 

And by the way, if the British national had already renounced citizenship of the other country and could not get it back, it would not be possible to revoke the brit citizenship, he would be stateless, 

As I have said. 

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by greenchair
added a bit

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, NoGoodDeed said:

Excellent question and I'm afraid I don't know the answer to this.  She was naturalized in 1991 and I am *assuming* that the renunciation was done formally, but we don't have any paperwork to support that assumption.  Her then current Thai passport was not cancelled but I don't know if that means anything.

I highly suspect that it was not done. It would of required a lot of paperwork being filed at the embassy to do the renunciation.

 

16 minutes ago, NoGoodDeed said:

We will be in Thailand in November and will pursue the matter there.  Perhaps there was no formal renunciation after all but if so and if there is an actual procedure that will result in her having dual Thai-US citizenship then it will be something to pursue.

 

She should try applying for a Thai ID card at an Amphoe.  Does she have a copy of her house book registry.

[greenchair]

18 hours ago, QuantumMech said:

That's incorrect though; if your country's laws allow for renouncing your nationality, you can renounce it. Both the Thai and US laws allow for it. There are many US-born people who have renounced their US nationality, and there are many Thai-born people who have renounced their Thai nationality. You can even find the names of the latter published in the Royal Gazette. (Actually, IIRC, you can find the names of US renunciates in the Federal Register)

 

Also, most of your other points are incorrect.

Well that's right you can renounce it but as the US warning says, once you do that you are forever in danger of becoming a stateless person because your new citizenship can be revoked at anytime ,unlike your birth citizenship that cannot be revoked. The Thai law specifically states your citizenship can be revoke in the event of war or immoral behaviour that would cause damage to thailand. In order to do that, you must retain your birth citizenship, or you will be stateless , which means they would be stuck with a vagabond that cannot work, pay taxes or be deported. Kind of defeats the above law don't you think.  Essentially you are a permanent resident with perks. 

So I disagree with posters that say you must give a letter of intent to renounce your citizenship. I think this refers to children born dual nationals that must choose 1. They can then apply to be a naturalised citizen in the other. 

[ftpjtm]

11 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Thai law is generally deliberately drafted as vague and ambiguous for various reasons, most of which  are not in the interests of the general population, or at least are not intended to be.  Since it is a European style civil law system, rather than an Anglo-Saxon common law system, precedents are not particularly important in Thai law. That means that leaving the law vague allows for courts to interpret it differently in different cases, even if they are similar.  It also allows those in power to fill in the details through ministerial regulations which can be amended at will without the need for parliamentary scrutiny.

 

The 1965 Nationality Act is a good example of a vague and ambiguous law.  One of  consequences of this is that the law neither explicitly supports nor prohibits dual nationality, although there are parts of the Act that give the impression it is prohibited.  An example of this is Section 22 which appears at first glance to say that someone who has naturalized as an alien shall lose their Thai nationality.  But some wording inserted in the middle of the sentence raises some doubts as to whether they will still lose their Thai nationality, if they don't renounce it themselves.  If we look at the interpretation of this section, we can see by searching in the Royal Gazette, where all renunciations and revocations of Thai nationality have to be announced, that no involuntary revocations of Thai nationality have yet been announced under Section 22, since the current law was promulgated in 1965, although this was commonplace prior to that under similar clauses in earlier nationality acts in which the wording more explicitly mandated revocation for naturalizing as an alien.  Thus with 52 years in force I think we can safely say that naturalizing as an alien, as the OP's wife did, is effectively not grounds for revocation of Thai nationality under the 1965 Act.  To say that it is technically illegal is a misleading oversimplification in my opinion, which is likely to make people feel they are doing something illegal which 52 years of history of the current law says they are not. 

 

The issue of dual nationality for children of Thai and foreign parents is also rather confusing due to the ambiguous wording of Section 14 which appears at first glance to require such children to choose either their Thai or foreign nationality between their 20th and 21st birthdays.  But, if we look at the history of Section 14 we can see why it is ambiguous.  The original version, amended  in 1992, was very specific in giving the minister the authority to revoke the Thai citizenship of these citizens, if they failed to inform the ministry before their 21st birthdays that they renouncing their foreign citizenship in order to retain Thai citizenship.  Three weeks later in 1992, someone's feathers presumably having been ruffled, the law was amended yet again by the deletion some words and some rephrasing to make Section 14 the virtual double talk gibberish it is today.  The truth is that Section 14 now gives the children of Thai and foreign parents to right but not the obligation to renounce their Thai nationality between their 20th and 21st birthdays.  So now it has become a completely redundant section of the Act because Section 15 alows any Thai to renounce their nationality with the permission of the minister.  After it was gutted Section 14 was probably only left there for face reasons or to frighten people into giving up their Thai or foreign nationalities.  Over the years it has succeeded in causing needless worry to thousands of half Thais and their parents.

 

The answer is yes. You were given incorrect information 5 and 15 years ago.           

Thanks, I've asked that question many times and this is probably the best answer. 

 

Most amusing/telling response was when I asked a member of the New York Thailand Consulate staff, who had been very helpful up until my question about dual citizenship. Because once asked he suddenly lost his ability to communicate in the English language. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by ftpjtm