Bitcoin => eco-disaster

dutchberliner · January 7, 2018

33 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

Nonsense, the miners go where it is cheapest, renewable or not. It is easy to transport electricity to other areas, that is its huge advantage as a power source. I am unaware of huge numbers of jobs being created through Botcoin mining, and the tax issue is one which the tax authorities are lookng hard at, as Bitcoin is more a way of avoiding tax rather than paying more tax.

Please tell me where light bulbs have been improved through Bitcoin mining. Never heard of that.

well there are plenty of areas with more power production then they can sell because they lack the infrastructure. That's where miners go.http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/chile-solar-power-panels-free-electricity-give-it-away-a7063131.html this is just one example

I am not saying bitcoin is environmentally friendly but it is achieving a higher renewable rate then most industries. So trashing bitcoin over this is a bit hypocritical

The bitcoin is a way of avoiding tax story will cost a lot of people dearly in the long run. The bitcoin is a public eternal ledger, not suitable at all for large scale tax avoidance. there is a reason why the darknet switched away from bitcoin. They just kept getting caught;) It's a matter of when not if! look at this nifty tool for instance https://medium.com/@BitFuryGroup/the-bitfury-group-unveils-solution-for-analyzing-related-bitcoin-addresses-8eba57f4c7f9

Can't find the (smart) light bulb link but i am pretty sure it was one of these patents https://patents.google.com/?assignee=北京比特大陆科技有限公司&num=100

Air Smiles · January 7, 2018

2 hours ago, timendres said:

Bitcoins, like gold, stocks, and tulips, have purely fictional value. This is why, of course, they are quoted in USD and other fiat currencies! I am continually amazed by how the Bitcoin fanatics overlook this simple observation.

The value of ALL currencies is defined entirely by quoting the exchange rate against all other currencies ....Bitcoin is no different!

Gold, stocks, and tulips only have fictional value?!?!?

Edited January 7, 2018 by Air Smiles

quandow · January 8, 2018

Downloading porn is even worse but you won't stop THAT any time soon!

taiping · January 10, 2018

On 1/7/2018 at 1:45 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

(1) - DId you buy Bitcoin as a speculative asset or because of its use to buy and sell goods/services?

(2) - Have you ever bought a good or service with Bitcoin? How did it go? Charges? Better deal than cash, credit card or bank transfer? Why?

(3) - Have you ever tried to exchange substantial amounts of Bitcoin into currency? How did it go? Charges?

(4) - Are you substantially invested in Bitcoin (>40% of net assets) or just playing around with a couple of percent?

To answer your queries from somewone who has invested in cryptos since 2013 . . .

1. Neither. I was (and am) interested in the blockchain technology (which I think is genius level) and as an alternative to the banksters.

2. Yes. Paid with bitcoin which at the time had low transaction fees, compared to my bank SWIFT fees. Unfortunately, bitcoin now has slow confirmation times and high fees which defeats the purpose.

3. Depends what you mean by "substantial amounts." I have sold about USD 10K of bitcoin (on a local and foreign exchange) and transferred to my Thai bank account. No problem and charges were reasonable.

4. I have substantial investments in cryptos, but am reluctant to sell because except for gold/silver, everything else (stocks, bonds, real estate) is in bubble mode.

And the best of luck !!

speedtripler · January 10, 2018

On 07/01/2018 at 9:35 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

There is much ignorance among the populations.

Gold is a commodity. There is too much emotional baggage attached to gold for the Central Banks to sell it off. It would cause an outcry and Peter Schriff, Ron "audit the Fed" Paul etc would simply create too much hot air.

Better to leave it as it is.

The Central Banks do not need it anymore, it is a pain in the bum for them to look after. Germany got a bit of a nationalistic boost by "repatriating the gold" but so what? They are running a trade surplus and even just started reducing their national debt.

Maybe a few tin pot republics could stabilise their economies with it, but basically it is just another tradition.

"We've got it, because we've always had it."

They're is much ignorance in this thread(mainly from you)

More than I have time to point out....

You should do some more reading because you really come across like an ignoramus on crypto whether you mean to or not.....

davidst01 · January 11, 2018

On 1/7/2018 at 11:36 AM, 12DrinkMore said:

As expected the Bitcoin Band is banging their drums in defence.

Other little snippets

- instantaneous transactions is a lie. Any transaction goes into the "mempool" and waits for the data miners to come along and start processing it. There is a fee charged for doing this. If you don't offer a high enough fee, your transaction will simply sit on the back burner, leaving you hanging on with no idea when your transaction will be processed.

- the algorithm is designed to increase processing costs as the blockchains get longer with each transaction, this means as the total number of transactions increases the cost of each transaction also increases. There is no "economy of scale", things just get more expensive.

- Bitcoin transactions are not "low cost", moving in and out of currencies costs up to 10%. Transactions for small amounts such as would be typically used for meals etc also come to around 10%. If you can even find a restaurant that would accept Bitcoin.

- Large companies do not, in fact, accept Bitcoin as a payment. They have a contract with an exchange. The company receives currency immediately from the exchange. There is no company accounting in Bitcoins, no staff are paid in bitcoin and no government accepts bitcoins as an accounting standard nor a tax payment.

- The only liquidity that is available to Bitcoin sellers comes from Bitcoin buyers. If the buyers stop buying the price will collapse. The final collapse would occur once the transaction processing costs (electricity consumption) exceeds the revenue. At that point the Bitcoin miners will simply turn off their computers.

I don't know if I really want to address the arguments linked to above. But here goes.

I find this ludicrous. Sure, all those US data centres consume a lot of power, but they are actually running software that is supporting industry, finance systems, government operations, defence, the internet, your mobile phones, the media, hospitals, traffic systems; all of which have some tangible value to the population.

I would claim that to use an eighth of that power just to process bitcoin transactions used by very very few people is a total and utter waste.

Bitcoin is running on hype and literally hot air. Once the prospect of huge gains fades, then it will collapse as the buyers disappear.

Oh, and one of the articles says there are now 3,000 craptos.

Don't get burned by the bullsh1t.

you sound a bit annoyed as you have missed out on easy money?

the blockchain tech is here to stay. Technology never goes backwards. There is no way it will 'collapse' as you say. Maybe you are too old to read any of the whitepapers. Theres a lot of good tech being innovated now. Your comments indicate to me that you dont know what your talking about.

12DrinkMore · January 11, 2018

14 hours ago, speedtripler said:

They're is much ignorance in this thread(mainly from you)

More than I have time to point out....

You should do some more reading because you really come across like an ignoramus on crypto whether you mean to or not

Pity that you are not able to help us ignoramusses, It is soooo annoying to be told we are stupid by self-professed gurus, who are not prepared to spend a little time and correct the errors.

1 hour ago, davidst01 said:

you sound a bit annoyed as you have missed out on easy money?

the blockchain tech is here to stay. Technology never goes backwards. There is no way it will 'collapse' as you say. Maybe you are too old to read any of the whitepapers. Theres a lot of good tech being innovated now. Your comments indicate to me that you dont know what your talking about.

I am not annoyed.

I have also never said that the underlying technology is not going to be useful. Indeed I have stated that if I could find a way to invest in blockchain technology I would do so.

I am critical about

- the energy consumption that bitcoin deliberately squanders.

- the claims that bitcoin or any other crapto will be taking over the finance world.

- the buying hysteria we are seeing.

- the claims that bitcoin is actually worth something. It used to have a utility value due to the speed, cost per transaction and relative stability of the price. None of those now apply, it is expensive to transact, it is slow and unpredictable as a transaction can take from minutes to days, and its price goes up and down so fast that it is useless as a store of value over even the time of a transaction. The number of transactions in buying "real" stuff has dwindled to zero. Now all the transactions in Bitcoin are related to buying and selling Bitcoin itself and the other craptos that have to be purchased through Bitcoin.

IMO the Bitcoin Band Drummers cannot understand the difference between the blockchain technology and Bitcoin itself. These are two entirely different entities. Bitcoin could collapse tonight, taking down all the other craptos, but the technology will live on.

Even if the entire financial system was moved to a form of blockchain, which is entirely possible, neither Bitcoin nor any of the other craptos will be involved.

So, in case anybody is still in doubt about my position.

Quote

the blockchain tech is here to stay. Technology never goes backwards. There is no way it will 'collapse' as you say.

I agree entirely.

The blockchain technology is here to stay.

Most, if not all, of the current craptos will collapse and disappear. Does anybody seriously think that the world is going to be using 3,000 plus craptos to buy and sell stuff?

12DrinkMore · January 11, 2018

16 hours ago, taiping said:

3. Depends what you mean by "substantial amounts." I have sold about USD 10K of bitcoin (on a local and foreign exchange) and transferred to my Thai bank account. No problem and charges were reasonable.

USD 10k is nowhere near substantial, that is absolute peanuts.

To even be considered as viable for finance it has to be possible to move millions in a single transaction quickly in and out of Bitcoin, no delays, minuscule fees.

Wonderboy · January 11, 2018

17 hours ago, speedtripler said:

They're is much ignorance in this thread(mainly from you)

More than I have time to point out....

You should do some more reading because you really come across like an ignoramus on crypto whether you mean to or not.....

From a bystander, this kind of argumentation seems to be at the core of crypto currency supporters against people with different opinion

- what you say is wrong (without explaining what is wrong)

- you are stupid

- you are just envious and missed out

- fiat currency is bad

I have made good money on Bitcoin, but in it's current form and usage, I see it as a pure speculation object. I have sold out, and will stay out until the day people start using it for actually buying goods and services (which I think will never happen, as current limitations are hard to fix).

speedtripler · January 11, 2018

37 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

From a bystander, this kind of argumentation seems to be at the core of crypto currency supporters against people with different opinion

- what you say is wrong (without explaining what is wrong)

- you are stupid

- you are just envious and missed out

- fiat currency is bad

I have made good money on Bitcoin, but in it's current form and usage, I see it as a pure speculation object. I have sold out, and will stay out until the day people start using it for actually buying goods and services (which I think will never happen, as current limitations are hard to fix).

CryptoCurrency is not a binary option.

It doesn't have to be either good or bad

Compared to fiat

A lot of people are stupid though and feel the need to be green and furious when someone else is making money and they have missed out but there is nothing to miss out on

Crypto is not going away anymore than email or the Internet is going away so anyone investing now is still relatively early

Brokerages and funds are going to start selling it to their clients in the next 6 months and a lot of "old money" will hedge into it

It's not going to replace fiat currency in any developed nations so don't let that distract you....

Will most certainly take some market share away from gold and western union and those who like to keep money offshore etc so still plenty of room for growth

safarimike11 · January 12, 2018

On 1/7/2018 at 7:55 PM, lkn said:

In the other thread, where some people recommended to invest retirement funds in bitcoin, I posted a link to this article, sure, he gets the number of years wrong, and transaction fees are higher than stated, but otherwise it’s a thorough look at what not only bitcoin can be used for, but blockchain technology in general: https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100

I would love for someone pro-blockchain to refute that article, but as you have noticed, the bitcoin bulls are more about ad hominem attacks or whataboutism.

I do have a friend who has been into bitcoin since the early beginning, has a VISA card backed by bitcoins (although probably not anymore), he’s a sane person, and I think we agree pretty much 100% about the problems with bitcoin.

Anybody been trading on Coins.co.th since the 9th of January; I am locked out?

safarimike11 · January 12, 2018

1 hour ago, safarimike11 said:

Anybody been trading on Coins.co.th since the 9th of January; I am locked out?

Sorry - false alarm; they sent me a questionnaire but it went to the Junk folder instead of the Inbox.

speedtripler · January 12, 2018

On 11/01/2018 at 12:50 PM, 12DrinkMore said:

USD 10k is nowhere near substantial, that is absolute peanuts.

To even be considered as viable for finance it has to be possible to move millions in a single transaction quickly in and out of Bitcoin, no delays, minuscule fees.

It is possible to move millions every ten minutes and people are doing it

You may not believe it because YOU are not doing it but you are grossly misinformed on the topic and that's being polite about it..

https://blockchain.info/stats

12DrinkMore · January 13, 2018

14 hours ago, speedtripler said:

It is possible to move millions every ten minutes and people are doing it

You may not believe it because YOU are not doing it but you are grossly misinformed on the topic and that's being polite about it..

https://blockchain.info/stats

Based on the USD 3.1 billion transacted in the last 24 hours, I make that roughly USD 350,000 in ten minutes at the current price, not millions.

I see the cost per transaction is now up to $122.46, that'll make your pizza and coffee a little pricey.

However, I could not see

1. How many of these transactions are simply churn in the the bitcoin system.

2. How many are used to buy/sell alt-coins.

3. How many transactions involved real world stuff such as food, electronics, vehicles, services

4. How long the wait in the mempool was versus how much people are prepared to pay extra to get a faster transaction.

5. Statistics over the size and number of transactions going in and out of bitcoin to real currencies.

Maybe you could ease up on the ad hominem and explain to me where I am grossly misinformed with specific points, as I am fairly sure I have not got everything wrong.

Remember there will also be other people reading this as well, who are keen to develop their knowledge, so you will be educating a number of people at the same time.

mjnaus · January 13, 2018

4 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

1. How many of these transactions are simply churn in the the bitcoin system.

2. How many are used to buy/sell alt-coins.

3. How many transactions involved real world stuff such as food, electronics, vehicles, services

4. How long the wait in the mempool was versus how much people are prepared to pay extra to get a faster transaction.

5. Statistics over the size and number of transactions going in and out of bitcoin to real currencies.

Why on earth are you so dead set on the usage of Bitcoin as a transactional currency? Everybody and their mom understands that that's currently not realistic and not happening (not on a large scale anyway) ... You're beating a dead horse here. Nobody is suggesting to use Bitcoin to buy ice-cream. Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are going to take over fiat currencies.

So many of the bashers seem to think there's only two possible outcomes: 1) Crypto's take over the existing fiat currencies or 2) crypto's will disappear. This is not a zero sum game.

Just accept the fact that nobody realistically knows where this is heading... Just enjoy the ride, make some money along the way and support the tech you think has a genuine future.

Edited January 13, 2018 by mjnaus

12DrinkMore · January 13, 2018

39 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Why on earth are you so dead set on the usage of Bitcoin as a transactional currency? Everybody and their mom understands that that's currently not realistic and not happening (not on a large scale anyway) ... You're beating a dead horse here. Nobody is suggesting to use Bitcoin to buy ice-cream.

Totally. I am happy to agree with that. It is what I have saying for a long time.

So what is the point of buying bitcoin? It serves no useful function other than something to bet on, hoping a greater fool will buy at a higher price.

What can possibly go wrong?

39 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are going to take over fiat currencies.

Guess I have the other half of that brain.

Edited January 13, 2018 by 12DrinkMore

mjnaus · January 13, 2018

6 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

44 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are going to take over fiat currencies.

Guess I have the other half of that brain.

Lol, I guess I forgot to put the word "not" in there, as in "Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are not going to take over fiat currencies. "

speedtripler · January 13, 2018

10 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

Based on the USD 3.1 billion transacted in the last 24 hours, I make that roughly USD 350,000 in ten minutes at the current price, not millions.

I see the cost per transaction is now up to $122.46, that'll make your pizza and coffee a little pricey.

However, I could not see

1. How many of these transactions are simply churn in the the bitcoin system.

2. How many are used to buy/sell alt-coins.

3. How many transactions involved real world stuff such as food, electronics, vehicles, services

4. How long the wait in the mempool was versus how much people are prepared to pay extra to get a faster transaction.

5. Statistics over the size and number of transactions going in and out of bitcoin to real currencies.

Maybe you could ease up on the ad hominem and explain to me where I am grossly misinformed with specific points, as I am fairly sure I have not got everything wrong.

Remember there will also be other people reading this as well, who are keen to develop their knowledge, so you will be educating a number of people at the same time.

Edited January 13, 2018 by speedtripler

12DrinkMore · January 14, 2018

13 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Oh really, gimme a break, that's just another twit on twitter.

speedtripler · January 14, 2018

1 hour ago, 12DrinkMore said:

Oh really, gimme a break, that's just another twit on twitter.

But it sums you up rather nicely, doesn't it...

12DrinkMore · January 15, 2018

20 hours ago, speedtripler said:

But it sums you up rather nicely, doesn't it...

I have repeatedly asked on this thread for the personal attacks to be subdued.

Please do try to address the arguments I have made, which can be neatly summed up in the post by mjnaus. Namely.

1. Everybody and their mom understands that usage of Bitcoin as a transactional currency is currently not realistic and not happening (not on a large scale anyway) ... You're beating a dead horse here. Nobody is suggesting to use Bitcoin to buy ice-cream.

2. Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are not going to take over fiat currencies.

Which logically leads to the conclusion.

3. Bitcoin serves no useful function other than something to bet on, hoping a greater fool will buy at a higher price.

To help you here,

you can either defeat it on validity, namely the conclusion can be false even if the premises are true.

or

you can defeat it on soundness by showing one or both of the two premises is false.

phycokiller · January 15, 2018

$120 for a transaction? not sure where that comes from? right now its about $12, or anything less if you dont mind waiting, and its only going to go down over the next year

mjnaus · January 15, 2018

30 minutes ago, 12DrinkMore said:

I have repeatedly asked on this thread for the personal attacks to be subdued.

Please do try to address the arguments I have made, which can be neatly summed up in the post by mjnaus. Namely.

1. Everybody and their mom understands that usage of Bitcoin as a transactional currency is currently not realistic and not happening (not on a large scale anyway) ... You're beating a dead horse here. Nobody is suggesting to use Bitcoin to buy ice-cream.

2. Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are not going to take over fiat currencies.

Which logically leads to the conclusion.

3. Bitcoin serves no useful function other than something to bet on, hoping a greater fool will buy at a higher price.

To help you here,

you can either defeat it on validity, namely the conclusion can be false even if the premises are true.

or

you can defeat it on soundness by showing one or both of the two premises is false.

So simply because Bitcoin currently can't function well as a transactional currency we should proceed and completely dismiss it? You seem oblivious to the fact that up until early 2017, Bitcoin was being used as a transactional currency more and more. I have purchased coffee, food, meds, electronics and more using Bitcoin. Processing time was a couple of seconds and the processing fee a fraction of what regular payment processors charge. Simply because Bitcoin is currently working out its scaling issues, does not make it all of a sudden useless.

You also seem to completely miss the fact that Bitcoin is not the only tool in the shed. There are tons of new crypto's around, and many of them have learned from the issues Bitcoin has faced and is facing. Ethereum is able to process way more transactions per second that the Bitcoin blockchain, and a fraction of the cost. Although it's likely Ethereum will run into it's own scaling issues, these are simply hurdles along the way. If history has taught us anything, it would be that when facing with problems of a technical nature, it's only a matter of time until we overcome them.

I definitely won't deny that there tons of people getting into Bitcoin and other crypto's looking to make a quick buck. However, that does not dismiss those who have been supporting and involved with Bitcoin from the beginning. There are definitely many, many people who are part of this movement simply because they want to be and because the believe in the ideology behind it. Buying Bitcoin, or other crypto's can be a vote of confidence. I have bought lot's of Ether for that very same reason, I believe in what they're doing and the skills of the team behind it.

You're still approaching crypto's as having a binary outcome: either they take over the world or they die and go away. I am again pointing out that this whole crypto currency / blockchain thing is still in its early stages. We're in uncharted waters and nobody knows how this is going to pan out and exactly what role crypto's will play down the road.

It baffles me though that some people see the need to continue to piss all over Bitcoin and other crypto's. Yes people are speculating and making money, so what? Yes, Bitcoin and other crypto's have their issues and problems to work out, so what? Yes, there are scams happening and bad people are taking advantage of simpletons, so what?

Can't we just sit back and enjoy the ride? No matter whether you're a believer or a basher, can't we agree that it's pretty exciting what's happening at the moment?

Edited January 15, 2018 by mjnaus

phycokiller · January 15, 2018

the reason bitcoin has become so popular for speculation is that it is so easy and cheap to do so, the exact properties that will eventually make it the most popular form of currency

12DrinkMore · January 15, 2018

6 hours ago, mjnaus said:

So simply because Bitcoin currently can't function well as a transactional currency we should proceed and completely dismiss it? You seem oblivious to the fact that up until early 2017, Bitcoin was being used as a transactional currency more and more. I have purchased coffee, food, meds, electronics and more using Bitcoin. Processing time was a couple of seconds and the processing fee a fraction of what regular payment processors charge. Simply because Bitcoin is currently working out its scaling issues, does not make it all of a sudden useless.

You also seem to completely miss the fact that Bitcoin is not the only tool in the shed. There are tons of new crypto's around, and many of them have learned from the issues Bitcoin has faced and is facing. Ethereum is able to process way more transactions per second that the Bitcoin blockchain, and a fraction of the cost. Although it's likely Ethereum will run into it's own scaling issues, these are simply hurdles along the way. If history has taught us anything, it would be that when facing with problems of a technical nature, it's only a matter of time until we overcome them.

I definitely won't deny that there tons of people getting into Bitcoin and other crypto's looking to make a quick buck. However, that does not dismiss those who have been supporting and involved with Bitcoin from the beginning. There are definitely many, many people who are part of this movement simply because they want to be and because the believe in the ideology behind it. Buying Bitcoin, or other crypto's can be a vote of confidence. I have bought lot's of Ether for that very same reason, I believe in what they're doing and the skills of the team behind it.

You're still approaching crypto's as having a binary outcome: either they take over the world or they die and go away. I am again pointing out that this whole crypto currency / blockchain thing is still in its early stages. We're in uncharted waters and nobody knows how this is going to pan out and exactly what role crypto's will play down the road.

It baffles me though that some people see the need to continue to piss all over Bitcoin and other crypto's. Yes people are speculating and making money, so what? Yes, Bitcoin and other crypto's have their issues and problems to work out, so what? Yes, there are scams happening and bad people are taking advantage of simpletons, so what?

Can't we just sit back and enjoy the ride? No matter whether you're a believer or a basher, can't we agree that it's pretty exciting what's happening at the moment?

Thanks for the decent reply, with which I agree in its entirety.

Except the sentiment behind

Quote

Yes, there are scams happening and bad people are taking advantage of simpletons, so what?

And that is one of the reasons I started this thread, to show the limitations and potential downside of bitcoin. And because of that I get a fair bit of stick and called a btcoin basher. But surely somebody has to balance things out?

The main catalyst was one guy asking for advice on what to do with his pension savings, and got several replies to "invest in bitcoin".Clearly the guy was not a savvy investor, otherwise he would not have asked for advice. I find it morally reprehensible to suggest to an older guy, without explicitly pointing out the risks, that bitcoin was a suitable investment.

mjnaus · January 16, 2018

18 hours ago, 12DrinkMore said:

And that is one of the reasons I started this thread, to show the limitations and potential downside of bitcoin. And because of that I get a fair bit of stick and called a btcoin basher. But surely somebody has to balance things out?

Uhm, looking bag at your OP, you started this thread because you somewhere read Bitcoin is the biggest environmental disaster known to man and couldn't wait to share that little gem with the rest of the world (or TV for that matter). That's why you were "getting stick", for posting clueless articles and making silly statements.

You want to balance things out? Start by doing some research and learn what's happening in the cryptocoin space, so you'll be better equipped to advice people on how to partake. People will end up taking you a lot more serious if you're coming in with a balanced view, rather then simply jumping on the "crypto's are bad" bandwagon.

speedtripler · January 16, 2018

On 15/01/2018 at 9:02 AM, 12DrinkMore said:

I have repeatedly asked on this thread for the personal attacks to be subdued.

Please do try to address the arguments I have made, which can be neatly summed up in the post by mjnaus. Namely.

1. Everybody and their mom understands that usage of Bitcoin as a transactional currency is currently not realistic and not happening (not on a large scale anyway) ... You're beating a dead horse here. Nobody is suggesting to use Bitcoin to buy ice-cream.

2. Just like anyone with half a brain understands that crypto's in their current form are not going to take over fiat currencies.

Which logically leads to the conclusion.

3. Bitcoin serves no useful function other than something to bet on, hoping a greater fool will buy at a higher price.

To help you here,

you can either defeat it on validity, namely the conclusion can be false even if the premises are true.

or

you can defeat it on soundness by showing one or both of the two premises is false.

Nobody here gets paid to educate you...

If you can't understand it or don't get it

I don't have time to explain it you ~Satoshi Nakamoto

Wonderboy · January 16, 2018

8 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Nobody here gets paid to educate you...

If you can't understand it or don't get it

I don't have time to explain it you ~Satoshi Nakamoto

Blah, blah, blah. Standard answer from those who have no answer. Is that really the best you could come up with?

speedtripler · January 16, 2018

30 minutes ago, Wonderboy said:

Blah, blah, blah. Standard answer from those who have no answer. Is that really the best you could come up with?

Usual laziness from a nocoiner.........

Wonderboy · January 16, 2018

3 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Usual laziness from a nocoiner.........

If I had a Satoshi for every time a poster disregards a different view as drivel without anything to back up this statement, I would be pretty wealthy. How about backing up your view with facts and arguments for a change? Not saying anybody is right or wrong, but your argumentation technique is immature and worthless.

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