Condo owner's deed for my exstension?

[keithet]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

That's what we have to do.

Thank you for all your help and saving me from another trip again 

[KhunFred]

This is the good thing about using a rental agent. My agent takes care of all the paperwork dealing with reporting and gives me a copy of all paperwork that I will need to show immigration. If you're renting from an individual, this may or may not be done. My agent here in Pattaya is one of the sharpest Thai women I have ever met and I have never come up short on paperwork because she takes care of her condo renters.

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

Your landlord is just being cautious. They really don't want to give out signed copies of their land ownership documents as they probably fear fraud and loss of their property.

Exactly - and immigration knows this, and knows it has nothing to do with the validity of your application (you already told them where you live, so they can come and check), and they don't ask for these docs (or do a home-visit) if you use an agent.  

We don't even have a valid numbered document from immigration requiring these docs, which we could show to a landlord, to justify our seemingly crazy request.  Their reaction is the same as ours, "What does this have to do with if you are really married and living together or not?" so seems like a scam-attempt (to the landlord) on its face.

 

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

From immigration's point of view, they have found that a lease contract alone is worthless, as they can be faked in a matter of a few minutes. By insisting on a copy of the chanote and sale document they are much less likely to be presented with forgeries, as copies of these documents, especially the sale contract, are a lot harder to get hold of. Most Thai people will give a copy of their ID card and house book for multiple reasons, but they won't often give copies of their land documents. 

The ID of the landlord plus contract is plenty.  Maybe they want his ph# to call and check?  Fine. 

 

But, let's say it's all faked.  They come check your address, find out you lied to them, and your extension is canceled plus a criminal charge.  A few cases on the news in the Thai hoosegow (after the compulsory finger-pointing scene) should put a lid on expats trying that.

 

Another claim is that they were doing this to ensure landlords are paying taxes or really own the property.  We are not their research-team; they can forward the contract and ID to the tax-office, or have someone inquire at the land-office about ownership if they want.  This has nothing to do with whether our extension appliations are valid.

 

Quote

Every so often the requirements are increased. A lot of the time this is because a number of applicants try and game the system.

IOs work with agents to "game the system" to extort us - currently targeting the percentage of us who rent and married to a Thai (But not retired?  Because enough agent-apps already at that desk?).  Almost all the "gaming" is arranged by them.  This "undocumented requirement" runaround is more of the same. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by JackThompson

[moontang]

I had to give a copy of Chinote and contract at my extension...I am the owner.... Nonthaburi.

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, moontang said:

I had to give a copy of Chinote and contract at my extension...I am the owner.... Nonthaburi.

Because you are the owner - you have the power to do that.  A landlord can say, "No, I don't think so..." because they have no idea why we would need those things, given it is irrelevant to the justification for the extension, and could be used for nefarious purposes.

[fforest1]

Its just unbelievable how different immigration offices ask for different things for the same visa....Or ask for documents that will be very hard if not impossible to get.....Its as clear as can be they want you to fail they love failure because failure means agents must come to the rescue and thats beer money and money in the bank to immigration officers... 

 

I guess we should be thankful this practice is not more wide spread than it is....

[ocddave]

6 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Its just unbelievable how different immigration offices ask for different things for the same visa....Or ask for documents that will be very hard if not impossible to get.....Its as clear as can be they want you to fail they love failure because failure means agents must come to the rescue and thats beer money and money in the bank to immigration officers... 

 

I guess we should be thankful this practice is not more wide spread than it is....

My wife spent 5 years in the US getting her PHD, she is now "Americanized", her anger is worse than mine when dealing with incompetent people. I saw her go up one side of an Immigration officer and back down the other when he thought he was going to bully her during one of our first visits. We haven't had many issues after that episode....LOL

[Harkouk]

Same thing happened to me as the OP. 6th extension based on marriage,went in last week with all the usual paperwork, and was told the rental contract needed updating, even though it's been good for the past 5 years. Go back yesterday to see same IO who then says owner's housebook has to be the same address as where we rent. Told her he has no housebook available for where we are living, so she says she needs a copy of ownership/deed. Luckliy the owner is a lovely fella who lives close to us, my wife rings him there & then and he says no probs. The IO processes my application, I get the 4 week stamp on the proviso we drop off the deed later that day - which we did. Was also told to bring my bankbook updated + copy, as well as another copy of my 90 day report to immigration when i go back in 4 weeks time - which was a first.

The annual checklist just got a little longer.

[John Answer]

if hes dead forget about the xtension. just forgetu needid it. it works in the land of fake smiles. 

[keithet]

8 hours ago, Harkouk said:

Same thing happened to me as the OP. 6th extension based on marriage,went in last week with all the usual paperwork, and was told the rental contract needed updating, even though it's been good for the past 5 years. Go back yesterday to see same IO who then says owner's housebook has to be the same address as where we rent. Told her he has no housebook available for where we are living, so she says she needs a copy of ownership/deed. Luckliy the owner is a lovely fella who lives close to us, my wife rings him there & then and he says no probs. The IO processes my application, I get the 4 week stamp on the proviso we drop off the deed later that day - which we did. Was also told to bring my bankbook updated + copy, as well as another copy of my 90 day report to immigration when i go back in 4 weeks time - which was a first.

The annual checklist just got a little longer.

When you went back to see the same officer.  Did you get a que number or did you go straight to that officer? 

What imagration office did you go to? 

I go to Changwatana and will go on the 17th for my 2nd visit since my wife convinced landlord to give us the chanote and house book. 

I would like to bypass the que and go straight to the officer that made this mess for me. Its hard for my wife to get week days off because she has to be with me for exstension based on marriage. 

But maybe a new officer would be better. But a new officer may dream up a new set of requests.

This year has been a mess so far. 

[Harkouk]

27 minutes ago, keithet said:

When you went back to see the same officer.  Did you get a que number or did you go straight to that officer? 

What imagration office did you go to? 

I go to Changwatana and will go on the 17th for my 2nd visit since my wife convinced landlord to give us the chanote and house book. 

I would like to bypass the que and go straight to the officer that made this mess for me. Its hard for my wife to get week days off because she has to be with me for exstension based on marriage. 

But maybe a new officer would be better. But a new officer may dream up a new set of requests.

This year has been a mess so far. 

Chaeng Wattana, the IO we saw first time told us specifically to see her when we went back. She said don't get a queue number, she wrote a reminder to herself on the TM form of what documents I should have. I wanted to go back Monday, but she said Tues at the earliest as she wasn't working Monday.

I'd imagine it would be best to seek out the same officer as before, get in there at opening and 'catch his/her eye' so to speak. Probably a good idea to get a queue number as well, just in case your original IO is in a bad mood or absent.

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, Harkouk said:

Was also told to bring my bankbook updated + copy, as well as another copy of my 90 day report to immigration when i go back in 4 weeks time - which was a first. 

Yes, they have now unofficially extended the seasoning from 2-months to a minimum of 3-months.  But, since they aren't always done after a 30-days approval-period, it could be 4 months you lose access to your money. 

 

Evidently too many people were honestly qualifying for their marriage-based extension (no "extra money" in that), so these changes were implemented to block them. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by JackThompson

[keithet]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:57 AM, Harkouk said:

Chaeng Wattana, the IO we saw first time told us specifically to see her when we went back. She said don't get a queue number, she wrote a reminder to herself on the TM form of what documents I should have. I wanted to go back Monday, but she said Tues at the earliest as she wasn't working Monday.

I'd imagine it would be best to seek out the same officer as before, get in there at opening and 'catch his/her eye' so to speak. Probably a good idea to get a queue number as well, just in case your original IO is in a bad mood or absent.

Thank you for your info. We will get a que but also try to get her attention. She only wrote on our paperwork window # and que number. And my wife told her next week if my wife can trade days off with coworker to go back to imagration. 

[keithet]

My wife was able to convince our condo owner to give us signed copies of house book and deed as requested by the IO at Changwatana. I have more paperwork about my residents and my condo owner than I do pertaining to my marrage. 

I have:

-my passport copies 

-wife's id and house book 

-kor ro 2 and 3 marrage doc. 

-embassy letter 

So now everything pertaining to address and condo owner:

-tm30

-tm47 the 90day address report 

-lease 

-condo owner's id 

-condo owner's house book 3 pages

-condo owner's deed chanote 2 pages front and back reduced to a4 

-pictures of wife and I under condo address, in and around condo every room.  6 photos 

-a hand drawn map to my condo

     *in case during my 30 day under h.     Consideration stamp  they 

        Want to visit to see if we

       Live at address together. 

-tm7 has my address on front and back 

-my embassy letter also has my address sworn infront of embassy worker. 

 

This week my wife and I go in for our 2nd time to apply for exstension bassed on marriage. 

But it seems more like bassed on address and if owner owns the condo. 

Edited January 14, 2019 by keithet

[bbi1]

On 1/8/2019 at 2:14 PM, jackdd said:

Afaik there is no requirement to show the house book, or even just a rental contract. So the person at Chaengwattana made this up so that you will use an agent and they get money.

You could just try to go there again on another day, maybe there will be another person who doesn't make up this rule.

 

If you have a friend outside of Bangkok you could "move" (have your friend submit a TM30 for you) there and then apply for the extension at the immigration office there. Depending on the immigration office maybe it's enough if you just stay at a hotel, then you wouldn't need a friend.

Agreed, Chaengwattana never had a requirement about any of those things the OP mentioned. Just turn up with your 1,900 baht and completed form with all the photocopies of your passport required page then wait until it's processed. No need for any TM30 either.

[keithet]

42 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Agreed, Chaengwattana never had a requirement about any of those things the OP mentioned. Just turn up with your 1,900 baht and completed form with all the photocopies of your passport required page then wait until it's processed. No need for any TM30 either.

I too never had a problem with my other exstensions. One time I was asked for owner's id 2 years ago, since then I provide the id. But all that was before 2019.

Now the first thing that was asked was tm30, but no problem I can do that and pay a fine. But the officer asked for so much more with the explanation of every year is different. 

With just 2 weeks into the new year of 2019, I wanted to see if anyone else has been asked to get more documents this year. A couple of people have had too and helped me with information so I may not have to go again.